Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
I'm going to be ridiculous and vote for The Rack here. 1 Mana to get out, can't be stopped by Pithing Needle, Stifle, or anything short of flat-out Disenchant-or-Deed style removal, and does its thing without any sort of mana assistance in the slightest. I think its effectiveness is boosted tremendously in a deck where we now have eight Pox-like effects, in addition to Hymn to Tourach.
I'm also a fan of both Chrome Mox and Innocent Blood. In fact, I'm a fan of Chrome Mox in ANY deck packing Smallpox, be it Pox or Deadguy. It allows you, on the DRAW, to cast, say, a turn one Smallpox, wrecking a Land, a Lackey, and a card, in one fell swoop, and it leaves you with a mana source on the table still.
This could also be Mox Diamond. With green. Imagine LoamPox.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
I think we might start to see a resurgence in the popularity of Pox after TimeSpiral is released. Not only because of Small Pox, but also because of the new card Phyrexian Totem.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
The problem would be with the synergy of Pox and keeping 3 land on the table to activate the totem-you can only run so many dark rituals.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Phyrexian Totem doesn't exactly tickle my fancy in Pox. I mean, yeah, it's nice, but it takes 3 every time you activate (EDIT: See above. Curse your ninja-like stealth posting speed, laststep!). The nice thing about, say, Chimeric Idol, is that it doesn't tie up your mana to turn into a 3/3 beatstick, freeing you up to Pox and Hymn and Sinkhole to your heart's content.
I'm working on two builds currently. One is standard Pox with kills of Chimeric Idol, Nether Spirit, and The Rack. The other is a build with Squee and Zombie Infestation, which seems very attractive right now based on the fact that Pox will already have 8 self discard mechanisms in Pox/Smallpox. Zombie Infestation will double as a control mechanism and a kill condition, and allow you to balance your hand out for an optimal Pox. In addition, Squee and Nether Spirit's triggers can stack so that Nether Spirit still returns if Squee is in the graveyard.
14 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Innocent Blood
2 Buried Alive
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Nether Spirit
2 Chimeric Idol
SIDEBOARD:
4 Leyline of the Void (Graveyard recursion, Loam)
4 Duress (Combo, Landstill, any deck where Innocent Blood is useless)
4 Engineered Explosives (Kills Needle and other random annoying CMC 1 drops, as well as opposing Moxen should you face them.)
3 Pithing Needle (Stops Aether Vial)
This is tenative so far. Buried Alive might raise a few eyebrows, but it can fetch 3 Squee or 2 Squee/Nether Spirit. It makes cards like Pox and Smallpox significantly more in your favor.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
The build I'm currently messing with looks something like this:
Weezing
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Nether Spirit
3 Pox
3 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Funeral Charm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Smother
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Infest
2 Phyrexian Totem
3 Chimeric Idol
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Oppression
1 Phyrexian Totem
It's nice to see some pseudo-bumpage on the Pox thread. I'm currently trying to retool my deck to be better in meta that's about 60%/40% combo/aggro, with a few random control decks thrown in to the mix and no aggro-control to speak of. The problem is, if I modify the maindeck to have a good game one combo matchup, I get steamrolled by aggro, and vice versa. Also, I really miss the draw of Phyrexian Arena, but...it makes you lose life, what can I say.
EDIT: one thing I noticed at the last tournament I played at was this deck's problem dealing with loads of fat. It can easily deal with x/2's and less, but if it's got an ass of 4 or more, a cmc of 4 or more, and they have other men to back it up, you're hosed. I wonder if that new Split Second Last Gasp-like card would be of any use here? It's worth a try.
EDIT2: updated the decklist with a theoretical new build. Geared towards beating aggro in the maindeck, but you can switch some things in and out to have it beat combo and control game one, depending on the meta. I played the anti-combo version of the deck at the last tournament and spent the day getting my ass handed to me by aggro decks. T_T More than half of the field was combo, and how many combo decks did I play? None! Oppression is anti-tech against Gobs, btw. >.>
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
When i think of decks that can REALLY take advantage of Small Pox, I think Ichorid..
Ichorid doesn't care if it loses lands, cards, or creatures. Now if only it could deal with grave-hate...
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
The point to Pox is that every spell you play should be able to be cast with Dark Ritual alone, making Ritual your MVP. Heres the list I ran at Philly.... as you can tell from reading it, I auto-won against Goblins.
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Nether Spirit
3 Chimeric Idol
3 Cursed Scroll
4 Pox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymm
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
3 E. Plague
3 Funeral Charm
2 Smother
2 Infest
SB:
3 Oppression
3 Haunting Echoes
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Infest
1 E. Plague
3 Massacre
Something like that. I can't remember exactly because it was almost a year ago. Unfortunatly, my teammate Bane_of_the_Living was playing it the night before in a tournament to get the 2-round bye when it got stolen. He was 2-0 in it too, his 3rd opponent was Goblins. He would have tromped them, but when he looked up, it was gone. Foil Wastelands, Beta Sinks, altered Infests, pretty much a money deck.
Anyways, The amazing thing about Pox is its flexability to the format. If you know your meta has a lot of combo, maindeck Oppressions, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Hymn to Tourach, and Racks. Playing a lot of Aggro? Throw in Infests, Smother, Nether Spirit, Chimeric Idol, Cursed Scroll, and whatever else may tickle your fancy.
A really underestimated card is Contamination. Solidarity literally cries if that thing hits the board. Bait out the FoWs with some discard, then drop that card on them with Spirit in play and that equals GG 99% of the time. Some people are crafty enough to float mana, Wish for bounce yadda yadda yadda, but most people just scoop. Its also a house against Threshold, although its harder to cast because they play 10-12 counters. The other thing about Threshold is that they really dont mind discard as long as its not on their creatures. Discard = Quicker Threshold. Which blows, especially if your not packing Diabolic Edicts. Mongoose will smash your face all day if you can't pwn him early.
Goblins is by far the most fun deck to play against. When I played at Philly, I opened a hand like this: Swamp, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, E. Plague, Swamp, Spirit, Pox. I kept and went first, playing swamp, Rit, E. plague on goblins. My opponent got up and yelled judge because he thought I was cheating. The judge walked over and got my decklist, then laughed and said everything was fine. The kids face turned bright red and he went, playing mountain, vial. I drew into another E. Plague and it was GG. The kid was bullshit at me but whatever. THIS DECK TROMPS GOBLINS SOOO BAD! If you have a lot of Goblins in your meta, this is the deck to bring. You play Infest, Funeral Charm (lacky tech), Smother, and E. Plague. Hymns throw away their Gobs at a pretty fast rate if you see multiples. This deck is probably Goblins worst matchup. Pox = MVP too. They lose it all if they dont have Vial on the board.
As for Control, thats a tough one.... Its like facing the mirror. Whos going to make the first move? Nether Spirit is the man in this matchup. The only card you dont want to see is StP, but between Duress, Hymn, and Funeral Charm, you should be ok on that deal. Spirit can chump block ALL day and just laugh about it. Poxing against control is also nice, considering control only gets scarier the more land it has. LD is pretty key here, as is discard. You drop Idols late game with Spirits and beat face from there. Luckily though, there isn't too much pure control anymore.
Small Pox seems pretty nifty. Its definatly VERY powerful for its CC, and definatly warrants use. Its a house against Solidarity and Threshold, which is nice because those seem to be the DTB nowadays.
So, now I think i'll post a decklist of a solid Pox list from what I think.
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Chimeric Idol
3 Nether Spirit
3 The Rack
4 Pox
4 Hymm to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
3 Small Pox
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Contamination
SB
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Oppression
3 Haunting Echoes
3 Engineered Plague
3 Infest
The list has a pretty strong maindeck against both Threshold and Solidarity, with an even better sideboard. The deck packs 15 LD effects, 10 creaure kill effects, and 17 discard effects. The Echoes is in there to completely own Threshold. They call it the Scoopmeister in Germany for a reason. Oppression puts the hurt on Combo. Crypt is there for Thresh and IGGy pop. E. Plagues and Infests round out the goblin matchup pretty easily.
Overall, Pox has the tools to become quite a contender, and hopefully Small Pox will be the extra oomph needed to make it viable. Just remember people, Pox Hard, Pox Fast!
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tacosnape
In addition, Squee and Nether Spirit's triggers can stack so that Nether Spirit still returns if Squee is in the graveyard.
Just so you know, that doesn't work. Nether Spirit has an intervening-if clause, which means that if there are any other creatures in the graveyard, the triggered ability doesn't even go on the stack.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
A main thing that people have to keep in mind is that between Pox and Small Pox, we're going to be losing a ton of land ourselves. This means running 24 black sources counting chrome moxes plus 4 dark ritual is a must if we want to be able to cast the many 3cc cards in the deck like Chimeric Idol and others.
Another key question we have to answer is if it's better to run Dark Confidant and Hypnotic Specter, both of which have mad synergy with the deck, or if it's better to run Chimeric Idol and Nether Spirt which serve no disruptive role at all.
Also important to answer if Cursed Scroll is worth it. It eats up a ton of mana.
Other possibilities...
The white splash has always been amazing in Pox. Vindicate would allow for a full 20 land destruction cards while giving you a great out against everything.
So I'll definately squeeze that in somewhere.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
I've been playing this decklist:
//Discard Spells
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
//Land Destruction
4 Sinkhole
4 Wasteland
//Creature Destruction
4 Diabolic Edict
//Mass Disruption
4 Pox
//Creatures
4 Mindstab Thrull
4 Hypnotic Specter
//Damage Sources
4 The Rack
3 Cursed Scroll
//Mana Sources
17 Swamps
4 Dark Ritual
Total : 60 cards
I've always had close games which I often lost because I wasn't able to kill my opponent.
Props:
- Pox: Always MVP. I never draw enough of them. Small Pox seems a nice addition
- the Rack: cheap and effective, a must have
Slops:
- Mindstab Thrull: I've never damaged anyone with it, every opponent has a way to kill/bounce/... him
I felt the need for something recurring like Crucible of Worlds or Ichorid (but I have too few creatures for it).
Maybe Nantuko Shade or Mishra's Factory are worth a try but I haven't tryed them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tacosnape
This could also be Mox Diamond. With green. Imagine LoamPox.
Mox Diamond is worth a try. Loam would be great but you cannot rely only on the Mox to cast it. I'd go with the Crucible instead.
Just my 0.02
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
A main thing that people have to keep in mind is that between Pox and Small Pox, we're going to be losing a ton of land ourselves. This means running 24-26 black sources plus 4 dark ritual is a must if we want to be able to cast the many 3cc cards in the deck like Chimeric Idol and others.
This isn't true. The thing that people need to know is when is the right time to Pox. The magic numbers for Pox are 1, 4, and 7. This means that if your opponent has 1, 4, or 7 cards in hand, lands in play, or creatures in play, you've maximized your Pox. If they have 1 of anything, they lose it. If they have 4 of something, they lose 2 of them. If they have 7 of anything, they lose 3. Remember to do things like hold land in your hand if your going to Pox, so you can at least recover. The other thing I noticed is that its typically not a good idea to play more than 3 swamps at a time, as this makes Pox that much worse for you. All you need is 3 lands in play to really be able to play any spell you topdeck.
As for the debate about Cursed Scroll, you only use it when your in topdeck mode... Its used as a kill condition.
I ran a build of Pox for a little while that ran Hyppie and Confidant, and it really comes down to your comfort level. Confidant makes the deck a lot more scuicidal, but increases consistency. Nether Spirit makes the deck more controlish, but also makes it more graveyard dependant, which may be something you want to steer clear of with all the Crypts being run as of lately.
Nether Spirit does in fact have synergy with Pox because it comes back from Pox aftermath, which is one of the reasons I don't run Confidant. Now the problem with using Scroll and Idol are that they leave 2/3rds of your kill conditions vulnerable to Needle, which can make for a REALLY bad day. Black also doesn't have artifact removal really, which could prompt for a white splash. The thing with Pox is that one of its strong points is its immunity to Wasteland. Adding white to the deck would give you more cards to use, but at the risk of getting wasted.... which isn't a good thing for this deck. at all. White also gives the deck StP, which I know I wouldn't complain about having.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
The thing about Smallpox is that you don't have to run a completely terrible manabase and deck built around it because it doesn't matter how many cards or lands you have in play. Smallpox is so much better in a control deck than Pox it makes my mind hurt.
Just make a Monoblack control deck with a lot of land, and more land distruction and add Smallpox as extra disruption, so that you don't have to use frigging Nether Spirit and Cursed Scroll as your kill conditions. The problem with Pox has always been that you have to run an otherwise terrible deck to accomodate Pox, which is no longer the case.
If you don't believe me about the deck, just look at it in the absence of Pox, it's awful.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfred
The thing about Smallpox is that you don't have to run a completely terrible manabase and deck built around it because it doesn't matter how many cards or lands you have in play. Smallpox is so much better in a control deck than Pox it makes my mind hurt.
Just make a Monoblack control deck with a lot of land, and more land distruction and add Smallpox as extra disruption, so that you don't have to use frigging Nether Spirit and Cursed Scroll as your kill conditions. The problem with Pox has always been that you have to run an otherwise terrible deck to accomodate Pox, which is no longer the case.
If you don't believe me about the deck, just look at it in the absence of Pox, it's awful.
Without Pox, the deck looks like a monoblack build of Deadguy, Which is a pretty solid deck. I understand how you think Small Pox is better, but thats because its controlled. Half the reason you play Pox is because its a house. It has the potential to be 3 Small Poxes for 1 more mana. The creatures in the deck aren't exactly the best, but they get the job done.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
^ in that list, I'd cut the thrulls for negators, and the scrolls for crucibles.
Negator ends the game quickly, while having great synergy with crucible.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nitewolf9
^ in that list, I'd cut the thrulls for negators, and the scrolls for crucibles.
Negator ends the game quickly, while having great synergy with crucible.
Funny you should mention Negator. I was thinking and I don't know much about the card, but what about replacing Chimeric Idol with the new Phyrexian Totem? Granted if your opponent plays Burn he's going to suck, but he would certainly put pressure on White Thresh and Solidarity.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SillyMetalGAT
Without Pox, the deck looks like a monoblack build of Deadguy, Which is a pretty solid deck. I understand how you think Small Pox is better, but thats because its controlled. Half the reason you play Pox is because its a house. It has the potential to be 3 Small Poxes for 1 more mana. The creatures in the deck aren't exactly the best, but they get the job done.
It looks like Deadguy, yet without any of it's good threats, like Confidant or Nantuko Shade. In their places, a glacial clock of Cursed Scroll and Nether Spirit is added, which means that any deck has the potential of drawing out of the soft lock that it creates. Also, now you don't have to run the card disadvantage that is Dark Ritual.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfred
It looks like Deadguy, yet without any of it's good threats, like Confidant or Nantuko Shade. In their places, a glacial clock of Cursed Scroll and Nether Spirit is added, which means that any deck has the potential of drawing out of the soft lock that it creates. Also, now you don't have to run the card disadvantage that is Dark Ritual.
You can run Confidant. You can run Shade. Nobody said you couldn't. The reason people run Cursed Scroll is because in addition to being a kill condition (not to mention if you get 2 of your kill conditions on the board, your doing 4-5 damage a turn to an opponent thats already at 10-13 because you Poxed them) Cursed Scroll also picks off creatures. Dark Ritual may be card disadvantage, but its amazing to go 1st turn Swamp, Ritual, Duress, Hymm. That rips your opponents hand down to 4. While you might be at 3 cards, you just fucked Combo completely, or you just ripped valuable card advantage from Threshold. Dark Ritual is a much needed card in order to keep up with the speed of such decks as IGGy pop, Solidarity, and Goblins. The whole point behind a Pox deck is to recover from Pox faster than your opponent, then deny them the ability to ever recover. Until you do that, I normally wouldn't drop a threat. The only exception to this really is 1st turn Nether Spirit to get around Lacky if you have no other option. Nether Spirit is also the most amazing creature to have with Contamination if you try it. It works really well for me
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SillyMetalGAT
Funny you should mention Negator. I was thinking and I don't know much about the card, but what about replacing Chimeric Idol with the new Phyrexian Totem? Granted if your opponent plays Burn he's going to suck, but he would certainly put pressure on White Thresh and Solidarity.
I would run both for consistency, and cut Scrolls for the totems. They both cost the same to activate, but the Totem deals five instead of two damage and can double as a black mana source in emergeny situations. Imagine having three lands and an Idol and Totem in play. Activate Totem, then activate Idol, then swing for eight. Post-Pox, that's going to leave them at five life...for three mana. Granted, you can't normally activate the Totem the same turn you Pox, but you can the next turn, so that makes up for it.
One thing I haven't thought of before is running Therapy. That's hawt with Nether Spirit in play. I might try Therapies in my sideboard to strengthen the combo matchup, which is okay right now but not tremendously great because my maindeck is geared towards beating aggro, so unless I get lucky, I usually have an uphill battle game one.
Re: [Deck Discussion] Pox & [New Card Discussion] Small Pox
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aggro_zombies
I would run both for consistency, and cut Scrolls for the totems. They both cost the same to activate, but the Totem deals five instead of two damage and can double as a black mana source in emergeny situations. Imagine having three lands and an Idol and Totem in play. Activate Totem, then activate Idol, then swing for eight. Post-Pox, that's going to leave them at five life...for three mana. Granted, you can't normally activate the Totem the same turn you Pox, but you can the next turn, so that makes up for it.
One thing I haven't thought of before is running Therapy. That's hawt with Nether Spirit in play. I might try Therapies in my sideboard to strengthen the combo matchup, which is okay right now but not tremendously great because my maindeck is geared towards beating aggro, so unless I get lucky, I usually have an uphill battle game one.
Yeah, that does sound pretty rediculous. Swinging for 8, sometimes 11 if Spirits in the yard is friggin silly. Therapy + Spirit = amazing. Swing 2, then sac to Therapy, strip their hand. Replay Spirit next turn. My decklist is more geared toward Combo/Threshold so I maindeck Therapy, but they could definately go in the SB.
Im really glad to see people getting hyped about Pox. Everytime I tried to bring it up, it got shot down.