[Deck] XX

Current List (12/12/06)

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
12 Swamps
2 Cabal Pit

4 Dark Ritual
3 Phyrexian Totem

4 Braids, Cabal Minion
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Engineered Plague
4 Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle

4 Diabolic Edict/Duress (meta call)
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole



(side)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dystopia
2 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Haunting Echoes



Pox vs Pox

Building your deck around Pox is difficult as you must sacrifice many of the traditional features of a deck (draw, creatures, mana). This is because you will lose 1/3 of your creatures, lands and hand, and you are punished for having many resources. With Smallpox, there is no need for this because of one thing:

Smallpox lacks the 1/3 of everything clause

(duh)

With Smallpox you are guarenteed no more than one of each type of card will be lost. This means that you can have more than 3 lands in play and 3 cards in your hand without screwing yourself over. Thereby, you can afford to to build your resources along more traditional means.

The big differences Between Big and Small is that BigPox is one mana more and will knock your life total into dubious position. This is an eventuallity against all kinds of aggro on a good draw. Burn. Etc. Think of it like this: the first Smallpox costs 2, does the same thing(mostly) as Bigpox, and knocks you down 1 life. The first Bigpox costs 3 and can put you down 7 life points!!

In summation, Smallpox is faster, easier to play with, easier to build around, easier to cast, and doesnt screw you over in terms of lands, hand size, and life total. The rest of the deck features removal, discard and general resource denial so getting rid of one of each of their lands, creatures and hand is going to mean more than usual. The opponant is already in dubious position and SP can push them over the edge.


Selected Choices

Braids - I blatantly stole this idea from Mr. Jank. Actually, she superceded, Smokestack and the Abyss after they proved to be slow and narrow, respectively. The fact that she is a creature is somewhat of an issue, however she comes online a turn quicker than Smokestack and isnt dead against combo like the Abyss.

Crucible of Worlds - Virtual card advantage + Wastelock, fun with Cabal Pit, replaying wasted Tombs, Factorys, play lands discarded to Smallpox, , etc.

Wasteland - Nonbasic removal and wastelock. Also spot mana to power out your artifacts.

Cabal Pit - Kills meddling creatures. Recurs for extra fun. Threshhold is not a problem.

Smallpox - Black Tremble. Oh, its an Innocent Blood too? And a Funeral Charm? Hamburgers!! Seriously, this card is usually a three for two on the board in an aggro environment (Three for three if you count the SP itself). Even if the tremble effect is its only function(combo matchup) it's still a pretty solid supplement to Sinkhole and Wasteland.

Sinkhole - Black Sinkhole, err....

Trinisphere. Wrecks combo and goes well with the deck. Ritual, 3sphere is a strong opening play against many decks on the play.. For now, Chalice is on the side as I feel its more specific hate for the combo matchup.

Phyrexian Totem - Totems are pretty decent because of their mana ability and ease to cast off of a Tomb. They also represent a decent clock in a tapped out/clear board. Makes creatureless decks pay (except burn). Watch out for mountains, stupid.

Pithing Needle - This deck's #1 problem card is Aether Vial. Also happens to pwn Belcher and Rifter if anyone bothers to play them.

Engineered Plague - Goblins used to be a large problems for this deck, but not anymore. Also good against random stuff like a little mongoose, wizards (dark confidant + meddling mage), slivers, ichorids and ghouls, etc. Thank your god(s) if you are paired up against elves.

Matchups

Goblins - 50/50. Goblins laughs at land destruction and creature control spells. E.Plague is your MVP (duh) and makes games much more reasonable. This is because its harder for them to keep multiple kings on the board with the kind of removal you play. Pithing Needle is awesome here out of the board, nabbing Vial, a major nuisance to your strategy. Infest can also be sided in for board control.

Solidarity - Favorable. Besides Chalices and Trinisphere, your strongest cards are your Smallpoxes and your Sinkholes. Dont underestimate the power of the discard off of a Smallpox as it may take them from a hand that can go off next turn to one that they have to wait on. 1)Tomb, Chalice. 2)Swamp, 3sphere is savage out of the board.

Threshold - Somewhat favorable. Again, 3sphere, Chalice and land destruction are strong. But they have a tendancy to disrupt and maindeck Pithing Needle is a big problem. Never, ever, ever, do a 1st turn smallpox off of a ritual unless you want to look really stupid when they Daze you. Its tempting if they drop a 1st turn mongoose but if it lives on a Tropical Island then you have a problem. 2nd turn Smallpox is sweet though and will often draw an ill advised FoW. Dystopia is pretty decent out of the sideboard. This MU really comes down to your level of competition and good thresh players will give you a run for your money.

It's funny, I just got my 4 small poxes, and have a deck list I was working on at work that's close to this minus the smokestacks and guiltfeeders (I ran Greater Harvester, Braids, and Phyrexian Totem). Though your list already looks more solid, since Small Pox and creatures don't get along.


Guiltfeeder is a house when your opponent is sitting with almost nothing on the table and a full yard. Though, doesn't Haunting Echoes and Guiltfeeder clash just a little bit? Or do you basically just shoot for one or the other? Guiltfeeder I can see being amazing if you can get him in against Threshhold or that 43land deck early on especially.


Looking at the cards you're considering, I would perhaps put in some sort of Mass removal, as creature hords will more than likely overrun you (it's the same problem I've been having. My friend actually beat me multiple times pre-board with elves and Goblins - I ended up Maindecking E.Plagues because of this. Which also helps if you Ritual it out turn 1 against Thresh, holding off Geese or Bears until later on and nullifying some damage).

Mishra's Factory as an alternate win seems like it would make your mana base a little unstable if you wanted to keep the Ports and/or Wastes in. I'd opt for something like a Nether Spirit or 2, or Phyrexian Totem. Nether Spirit can also be sacrificed every turn to a Smoke Stack with 1 counter on it, and you wouldn't need the Crucible. Nether Spirit would also make Contamination a sweet Sideboard card. :-)

EDIT: The inclusion of Nether Spirit would obviously not go well with the Guiltfeeders in the deck if they both died. So I guess it's not as much an alternate kill as a possibility that should be considered as a main kill. Unless you maindecked Scrabbling Claws or something (I have a friend who does this, and it's annoying especially if the deck I'm playing is using the yard).

I think Phyrexian Totem would be hawt here in addition to the Feeder, since it's another win and more mana. Also, have you considered Plague Spitter? That guy <3 creatures, <3 Smokestack, <3 Smallpox...in a word, he's a 2/2 for three that loves most of your deck and clears the board while damaging your opponent at the same time. I think he deserves consideration here.

I dont really like the looks of Tangle Wire here. I understand its value but it seems like the best card to cut. You dont play as many artifacts to tap as other stacks decks do because you arent playing with Chalice of the Void or anything at all besides Smokestack. Your going to tap yourself out as much as your opponent.

Trinisphere looks much more usefull here. It lets the SPox's and Sinkholes keep the opponent under lock very well. Dark Ritual can help power it out, then be discarded to pox if draw later. I would suggest more Crucibles as well. 3 probably would work best.

Arena is hot in stacks. Thats a good draw to black stax, as if Small Pox wasnt.. Speaking of playing black, and playing Stax. Where is Braids?

As to the win conditions, yes they contradict each other and no this is not optimal. Mainly, I wanted as few slots dedicated to win conditions as possible to maximize slots for other stuff. Guiltfeeder and Haunting Echoes is where I'm starting but probably not where it will end up.

Totem looks pretty decent (mana ability is nice), but Im not sure if this deck wants to have to pound it through on the ground in order to win. If feeder didnt have evasion then he wouldnt be nearly as viable. This is also why Im somewhat against using Nether Spirit.

Trinisphere is looking better and better, but Tangle Wire has been pretty decent thus far. Bane makes a good point about the lack of CoV making Tangle Wire less worthwhile. BTW, Im pretty sure chalice is not the way to go here as most of the spells cost 1+2.

As to Braids she doesnt play well with Smallpox and is vulnerable to creature hate. I'm thinking of adding Infest because aggro has been a problem and she doesn't go well with that either. The fact that she comes on line a turn earlier is nice (anti-Rancor sac'ing is nice too) but it's probably not enough to justify the fact that she is a creature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

I dont really like the looks of Tangle Wire here. I understand its value but it seems like the best card to cut. You dont play as many artifacts to tap as other stacks decks do because you arent playing with Chalice of the Void or anything at all besides Smokestack. Your going to tap yourself out as much as your opponent.

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You'll never tap yourself out as much as your opponent, simply because he's tapping more permanents than you are. It doesn't matter whether you're tapping useful ones or useless ones. He's going to tap 4, then you're going to tap 2, then he's going to tap 3, then you tap 1, then he taps 2, and you tap none, then he taps another one, you tap none, he taps none, and you sac it. I'm of course assuming that you tap Tangle Wire itself, which is why the low numbers. But in the end he's tapped 10 permanents over four turns, and you've tapped 3 over two turns.

I think the discard effects - all of them except for Smallpox - could stand to be removed for something that fits closer with a Stax engine. Here's my logic - Stax commonly has the problem of locking down the opponent for a while but then not being able to mount an offense to take advantage of that. And sometimes the opponent recovers and wins. Discard does not really assist this. If you want to make a deck with disruption of tempo like this, it is not going to be top tier in a stax shell. Especially not with the very slow win conditions you have. You can hammer them down, but you can't finish them.

So, to nudge the deck in the right direction, I recommend removal of Duress and Hymn in favor of something more aggressive. Personally, I really like Cursed Scroll in this deck. It's good with the Stax parts and good with Pox effects. And since all your lands are swamps, why not play Cabal Coffers with some really nasty sh!t. Once you are open to high-cost artifacts, you can have any win condition you want.

I dont know about the discard coming out. I could see duress coming out but not Hymn. It offers too much more of an advantage at more points in the game with this deck than MBC because they are usually stifled due to resource denial. They usually have very few mana(or a vial:frown: ) so they almost always have cards in their hand. Randomly pitching their crap keeps them on the topdeck and thereby can keep the pressure on.

Im wary of using Coffers B/c I dont think in terms of best case scenarios that often. Best case thinking can lead you create win more strategies more often then not. However, 1 or 2 coffers might be nice, maybe. I dont think It would offer much more of an advantage than say a topdecked dark ritual.

Scroll doesnt play well with Arena persay(sp?) and it doesnt speed up the clock much either. If I'm going to tap 3 and an artfact I'd rather get a 5/5 trample than a shock.

Edit: New List

4 Polluted Delta
13 Swamps

4 Dark Ritual
2 Phyrexian Totem

Discard
4 Hymn to Tourach

Draw
2 Undead Gladiator
3 Crucible of Worlds

Land Disruption
4 Wasteland
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

Lock Pieces
3 Trinisphere/Chalice
4 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack

Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void/3sphere
4 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle
5 other things

I have to agree that as strong as Hymn is, I really don't like it in this deck. The reason is because the mana denial and trinispheres and smokestacks make people hold cards because they can't cast them. Devoting slots in your deck to making people discard cards they already can't cast is much less effective than putting in more cards that make them unable to cast the stuff in their hands. For this reason I would up the 3Sphere count to four, cut the Hymns entirely, and add three Chainer's Edicts or three Sphere's of Resistance/CoTV, but I think Edict would be better for you here. Mishra's Factory's or other manlands would also work out nicely in this deck.

EDIT: and Cabal Pit, deserves serious consideration in any black deck with Crucible.

How about innocent blood instead of Edict? It's cheaper and more efficient and most the threats in the deck are unaffected by it.

I've been wanting to put together a deck like this, but haven't gotten motivated until now. Here is what I would probably try first. I haven't tested this nor will I get to (legacy is dead in the area). I'll probably try a non-powered version for Vintage at some point.

Here is what I came up with:
Mana
17 swamp
4 Dark Ritual
2 Phyrexian totem - and kill

Land Destruction
4 Wasteland - and Mana
4 Sinkhole
4 Small pox

Lock
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Tanglewire

Draw
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Undead Gladiator - and Kill

Kill
2 Nether Spirit
4 Chimeric Idol

Hint of Discard
4 Duress

Card Choices:
Duress – you want a first turn play else you are wasting a critical tempo turn (in a tempo based deck). This is also a gives you a big indication of what you are playing against which is helpful in this sort of deck, and if you are playing goblins it is an easy choice to sideboard out.

The Kill:
Nether Spirit - I loved it in Pox and it goes well with Smokestack allowing you to build other resources
Chimeric Idol – you can use you land and still have a 3/3 attacker. Doesn’t interfere with NS in the graveyard.
Undead Gladiator – I never would have thought of this on my own, but since you can get it out of the graveyard before you NS it can allow you to return 2 creature a turn. I’m 95% sure you can do this by responding to NS’s Beginging of upkeep trigger.
P. Totem – a beefy non-land threat. It puts a strong clock, especially if not playing a deck with instant direct damage.

P. Arena – draws cards, duh.

Lock Pieces
Tanglewire – slows them, compliments Smokestack and chimeric idol and others.
Smokestack –lock’em out
Crucible of worlds – helps you deal with your own lock pieces – may be a win more card.

My early Sideboard may look something like:
4 E. Plague
3 Darkblast
3 P. Needle
3 Null Rod
1 WW

new list

4 Polluted Delta
14 Swamps
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Dark Ritual

Extra Cards
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Crucible of Worlds

Land Disruption
4 Wasteland
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

Lock Pieces
4 3sphere
4 Tangle Wire
3 The Abyss (could be Smokestack)

Win Pieces
3 Phyrexian Totem
2 Chimeric Idol

Sideboard
4 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle
4 Duress
4 other things

I ditched the discard strategy as it provided a confict of interest. Many people were suggesting that denial of cards in hand would clash somewhat with the discard strategy. It would be like making those cards double dead if they were discarding things they cant play anyway. Tomb is in to power out lock pieces, it could by City if the damage starts to add up too much. Smokestack is out for now in favor of the Abyss. Chimeric Idol <3 Abyss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcanix

Undead Gladiator – I never would have thought of this on my own, but since you can get it out of the graveyard before you NS it can allow you to return 2 creature a turn. I’m 95% sure you can do this by responding to NS’s Beginging of upkeep trigger.

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Your 95% wrong. Both cards check for trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. Even though you decide what order your upkeep effects stack, such as Tangle Wire and Smokestack, the NS already checked to see if he was the only creature in the yard and he wasnt. Whether or not you return Gladiator, so just remember that. Its a commonly missed timestamp rule.

Speaking of Nether Spirit and his awsomely good synergies, has Contamination been considered at all? If your supporting a manabase that includes Mishras Factories and Crucibles this is even easier to achieve.

Redid the opening post to account for the changes. So far the Abyss has been pretty sweet :wink:

Sorry in advance for the double post bump. I added 2 Pithing Needles for more general disruption and cut back on the number of lands as the deck was having some mana flood issues. I also added more stuff to the opening post, the card choices and added matchups for the big 3. More stuff to come if anyone is interested :\

I'd really consider including some copies of Infest, or Mutilate. (or the super janky Hideous Laughter)

I think the inclusion of one of those would really help out in the fast aggro matchups, like Goblins, ect. that can give Stax problems. I could easily see them fitting into the Pithing Needle slots, and while they might not turn the matchup percentages around, they do make your chances better against a difficult and common deck type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by outsideangel

I'd really consider including some copies of Infest, or Mutilate. (or the super janky Hideous Laughter)

I think the inclusion of one of those would really help out in the fast aggro matchups, like Goblins, ect. that can give Stax problems. I could easily see them fitting into the Pithing Needle slots, and while they might not turn the matchup percentages around, they do make your chances better against a difficult and common deck type.

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Well, if I add a couple main deck Engineered Plagues then the percentages might start to turn around :cool: