You can erase 1 card from the game: which?

There are a number of cards in the game that do not necessarily deserve the ban hammer that I wish had never been designed. I know R&D/Dev. aren't perfect, yet in certain cases I think they were just plain stupid - examples include True-Name Nemesis, Monastery Mentor, Terminus, Griselbrand and Emrakruul.

With the latest bannings, it got me thinking:

if you could choose 1 card in the game that you wish had never been printed, which would it be and why?

My choice is somewhat cheating because it's a cycle: the fetch lands. They're not broken, I just find them to be annoying as they disrupt the game and the clock.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/chk/268.jpg

not one card but a group of cards: Fetchlands.

Think about it, the following cards are some of the broken cards out there because of them:

-Sensei's Diving Top
-Brainstorm
-Jace the Mind Sculptor
-Life from the Loam
-Tarmogoyf
-Deathrite Shaman
-Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Teluin

My choice is somewhat cheating because it's a cycle: the fetch lands. They're not broken, I just find them to be annoying as they disrupt the game and the clock.

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I didn't see this because I thought the OP was the Sensei's Divining Top picture.

Brain storm.

Irrational undying passionate hate.

Unhappy with the creep of the blue color pie, and Bstorm is the best at what it does, so it must go.

If we're limiting this to Legacy, it's gotta be Show And Tell. Though Brainstorm is pretty questionable, too.

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Originally Posted by ahg113

Brain storm. Irrational undying passionate hate.

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we must be twins that got separated at birth...

I like all of the Legacy legal cards, and even some of the illegal ones too.

EDIT: I hate Tabernacle, but only because it costs a million dollars. You can toss Moat in as well.

Kind of wonder what would have happened if goyf never got printed.

Chalice of the Void.

Show and Tell

Emrakrul...

Stupid card design, trumps all other big fatty creatures, hurt creative deck building.

Reality Smasher

True Name Nemesis.
Fun, interactive combat.

Mental Misstep

ugh, it's tough call between show and tell and TNN, but probably TNN cause it's such a stupid design.. and in blue to top it off. :rolleyes:

Fetchlands, and it isn't close.

There are many reasons why I chose fetchlands. There was Magic before fetchlands, but most of the people that hang around today don't recall those times. I wont say that the old days were better, but I do think that having 20 more instances of shuffling each round is not a good thing. The library manipulation side can't be ignored either. Lastly, what is color screw, because that hasn't existed in 15 years.

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Originally Posted by clavio

Kind of wonder what would have happened if goyf never got printed.

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I agree with this. It completely invalidates any future 2 drop creature and you just ask, "How is this better than Goyf?"

It's frustrating.

Show and Tell from Legacy. Deathrite Shaman close second.

But I would remove all too cheap and powerful creatures and let Juzam, Hypno and Serendib be the thing again.

Not sure if it's necessarily a bad card but because I'm bad.....Daze. Every motherfucking time I breakthrough for 1 I immedietly feel like putting my head through the wall for being so greedy.

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Originally Posted by ramanujan

Fetchlands, and it isn't close.

There are many reasons why I chose fetchlands. There was Magic before fetchlands, but most of the people that hang around today don't recall those times. I wont say that the old days were better, but I do think that having 20 more instances of shuffling each round is not a good thing. The library manipulation side can't be ignored either. Lastly, what is color screw, because that hasn't existed in 15 years.

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to really understand this you must understand why wizards makes / prints cards. They make cards generally because they are fun or fit a specific purpose. Fetchlands fall into the fit a specific purpose. It was NOT fun to get land screwed, thus, they printed fetchlands to provide consistency in deck building and alleviate the NOT fun aspect of land screw. Another caveat to this philosophy is their decision to NOT print UNFUN cards such as land destruction or stasis type cards. Out of ALL the cards that get reprinted these cards probably wont see a reprint because wizards views them and their strategy as UNFUN. With the exception of wasteland i cant recall any cards that would fall into this category that were printed in the last 10 years.

Also, without fetchlands, deck diversity would be dwarfed. A significant amount of decks would simply be unplayable without them.

TLDR: fetchlands were inevitable because wizards caters to casuals instead of competitive players.

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Originally Posted by jimmythegreek

Not sure if it's necessarily a bad card but because I'm bad.....Daze. Every motherfucking time I breakthrough for 1 I immedietly feel like putting my head through the wall for being so greedy.

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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...fb74fb5ede.jpg

Delver of Secrets

for blatantly breaking the colour pie. TNN to a lesser extent, as it costs 3 and double U.

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Originally Posted by apple713

to really understand this you must understand why wizards makes / prints cards. They make cards generally because they are fun or fit a specific purpose. Fetchlands fall into the fit a specific purpose. It was NOT fun to get land screwed, thus, they printed fetchlands to provide consistency in deck building and alleviate the NOT fun aspect of land screw. Another caveat to this philosophy is their decision to NOT print UNFUN cards such as land destruction or stasis type cards. Out of ALL the cards that get reprinted these cards probably wont see a reprint because wizards views them and their strategy as UNFUN. With the exception of wasteland i cant recall any cards that would fall into this category that were printed in the last 10 years.

Also, without fetchlands, deck diversity would be dwarfed. A significant amount of decks would simply be unplayable without them.

TLDR: fetchlands were inevitable because wizards caters to casuals instead of competitive players.

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I hear what you are saying, but don't dismiss the fun that is lost wasting a big portion of the allotted time each round shuffling or watching your opponent shuffle. I feel like I am telling people to get off my lawn, but I think the game was more fun when designing the land base for decks wasn't full easymode. I think that landscrew should exist, as a factor that punishes decks that try to do too much. At this point, there is no sliding scale, any color combination you want is easy to build and incredibly consistent. Why do we even have colors?

Mental Misstep is probably the all time shittiest card design so if you're talking about being able to go back in time and make sure it never saw the light of day, that would be my choice.

For current Legacy legal cards, I'd probably vote for TNN. It's just such a poorly thought out card - three mana progenitus that is blue and is also a Merfolk. Gimme a break.

For me it's easily Griselbrand. He's never going to be cast legit and any deck that cheats him in has like an 80%+ chance to win the second he hits the table. On top of that he ends up being a self-sustaining engine, and he doesn't even make you skip your draw step :v

Am pretty happy with the top ban, see no need to ban any other card in legacy atm.

Maybe its time they ubanned survival of the fittest, I don't think it would be easy to make it a faster or more resilient combo deck then the ones already in legacy, perhaps I am wrong but would like to see it happen :)

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Originally Posted by Koby

True Name Nemesis.
Fun, interactive combat.

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100% agreed. Down with the invincible fish!

Delver of Secrets and the Planeswalker card type.


Also mythic rarity......

Delver of Secrets, probably without question. Having blue get one of the best aggressive creatures ever printed is probably one of the stupidest things Wizards has ever done, if you ask me.

TNN is up there simply because of uninteractivity. If they made it like a 5/6 mana 6/2 or something like that it would be unplayable in Legacy, but still good/fun in the EDH precon it was made for. I really just hate these kinds of uninteractive cards, but Delver still takes the cake if I only had to pick one.

Also Delver. Because it's so damn good, and imposes pretty specific deckbuilding restrictions, it's essentially a single-card archetype.

Deathrite Shaman for sure... too powerful... too versatile... is 1/2... and casting cost just one hybrid mana - bad joke ....

Vengevine

I find it odd Tarmo, TNN and such are listed here. TNN is lame, agreed. But we all run evasion. Flying, Landwalk if we can get it, protection, trample.. it's a mainstay if it's available.

Goyf? There will always be a big beater and interestingly enough, TNN makes the Goyf alternatives, especially Tombstalker (which is from the same set!!) that much better.

I can agree on Delver to a point; but we'd still have 3/3 for 1 somewhere, and probably several of them. The fact is, combo speeds are so high and with all of the aggressive cards/hatebears, fair decks can keep up.


The card I'd get rid of..? I'd probably say Leovold because protecting your Hand, Lands, Deck, Creatures, and Lifetotal [burn] all while preventing draw in the colors that have been getting loads of love.. c'mon doo. That kind of design is so over-the-top lazy. Kira was annoying before Decay, but at least it didn't also protect the player, deck, hand, lands, etc.. Leovold could've at least been 3/2 for Pfire/Lavaman/Thalia/GobboGuide/EotGR, etc.. or 1/3 so his clock was abyssmal.

Instead they said "Hey, you know those colors we push so much for no apparent reason? Let's make a Kira that always works, and also protects your entire board and player state, costs the same basically, and one-way hoses blue! not pushed at all! Also, make it on an aggressive body bigger than 80% of the format, cost it at 3, and top it off with doing it to triggered and activated abilities!!?!??"

Fucking idiots. The format will be fine.. but that's *even worse* than TNN IMO. Not necessarily as format changing, but the design is abyssmal.

Dual lands.

Counterbalance. It's all nice and wonderful that SDT ban killed miracles (long overdue), but make no mistake CB is simply trolling the card pool for the next enabler and we'll be right back to where we started: miracles eradicating every other control deck with strictly higher win %. The problem was mitigated, not solved.

Now sure, every Ice Age block set needs it's singleton that's part of the big blue card denial enchantments (Zur's Weirding, Tidal Control, CB) but CB lacked symmetry, life cost, and avoids trend of lowering cmc = culm. upkeep. Pretty much an across the board flavor failure on top of all the other issues.

Griselbrand.

There is literally not a single redeeming feature about the card.

- Small Children think the 7/7 flying/lifelink thing is good, but don't realise that paying 7 life for 7 cards is good.
- Tournament players (I'm lumping us in this group) either love it or hate it, but the reason we do is the same: free wins.

As a competitive player I'm voting for counterbalance for all the reasons listed. Nothing to add.

As a player of the game for 20+ years, a card that I'd exile from the game is Strip Mine. It's just such a feelbad to get even your basics destroyed (really wanted to type "wasted" there haha). Wasteland is perfect, good at what it does but not oppressive. Strip Mine, while hardly seeing competitive play, is as awesome as it is horrible.

On the grander scheme of things, the whole Homelands set should have been a Mulligan from WotC.

Just my $0.02

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Terminus.

Always thought it was the problem card in Miracles, and now is the object of my undying hatred since it got Sensei's Divining Top banned. (Top is a card I really enjoy playing in decks other than Miracles.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I find it odd Tarmo, TNN and such are listed here. TNN is lame, agreed. But we all run evasion. Flying, Landwalk if we can get it, protection, trample.. it's a mainstay if it's available.

Goyf? There will always be a big beater and interestingly enough, TNN makes the Goyf alternatives, especially Tombstalker (which is from the same set!!) that much better.

I can agree on Delver to a point; but we'd still have 3/3 for 1 somewhere, and probably several of them. The fact is, combo speeds are so high and with all of the aggressive cards/hatebears, fair decks can keep up.


The card I'd get rid of..? I'd probably say Leovold because protecting your Hand, Lands, Deck, Creatures, and Lifetotal [burn] all while preventing draw in the colors that have been getting loads of love.. c'mon doo. That kind of design is so over-the-top lazy. Kira was annoying before Decay, but at least it didn't also protect the player, deck, hand, lands, etc.. Leovold could've at least been 3/2 for Pfire/Lavaman/Thalia/GobboGuide/EotGR, etc.. or 1/3 so his clock was abyssmal.

Instead they said "Hey, you know those colors we push so much for no apparent reason? Let's make a Kira that always works, and also protects your entire board and player state, costs the same basically, and one-way hoses blue! not pushed at all! Also, make it on an aggressive body bigger than 80% of the format, cost it at 3, and top it off with doing it to triggered and activated abilities!!?!??"

Fucking idiots. The format will be fine.. but that's *even worse* than TNN IMO. Not necessarily as format changing, but the design is abyssmal.

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I disagree with your argument about Goyf and True name. Goyf sucks because every two drop printed now is almost completely invalid because goyf exists. And True Name is miserable just because of how fucking dumb it is. It's the Griselchimp of fair decks. Allows complete chimpanzees to just ignore their opponent completely and just ravage people like the mongoloids that they are.

That said, leotard is just fucking miserable as well. The best chains variant ever printed, in blue, but not symmetrical, that also draws you cards. Seriously what the fucking shit. Fuck you wizards. Basically fuck this whole format at this point

Chalice of the Void. This is a fast format, so I was planning on playing with a low curve - fuck me, right? It's just too hard of a lock compared to the effort it takes to get it down T1.