Stilljutsu - UB Ninja Still

After playing in a few pauper tournaments, I've really fallen for ninjas...

Should be be Stilljutsu, Stillnobi, Still Silence???

After looking at common shells, it hit me the best shell (IMHO) for a serious ninja deck would be the UB Standstill list... also, ninjas so far have only been printed in blue and black.

This is my first attempt at a deck like this, and I hope to actually get good with it and tune it.

I kind of want to run Silent-blade Oni main in place of Ink-Eyes or Higure. Being non-legendary it avoids Karakas and his ability is pretty awesome if you get a hit. Another big thing is he pitches to Force of Will as odd as that sounds. I think the list would probably be better if Higure and Ink-Eyes were taken out for a 4th Snapcaster and Vendilion Clique, but that just doesn't sound as fun. Higure can actually be crazy helpful since it can guarantee ninjas getting through, and Ink-Eyes having regenerate can actually come up at times when trading with Tarmogoyfs or Batterskulls..

The awesome thing with this list is the fact you get to buy back your Spellstutter Sprites and Snapcaster Mages.

Our main board is a pretty standard with the exception of ninjas thrown in. One of our big draw engines is Ninja of the Deep Hours which we can actually get out even with a Standstill in play. The Ninjutsu mechanic can get pretty crazy if you shortcut things since it can only be activated after the declare blockers phase, and before moving on to the second main. That means if an opponent tries to Lightning Bolt one of your creatures mid combat, it's really important to be in a spot where you really know if you can ninja that creature out or not. Other nifty tricks are that Maze of Ith does not stop a creature from attacking (it just prevents the damage and untaps it), which means you can still ninja that creature back out, and if you have enough mana, ninja it back in.

Main
16 Creatures

4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Higure, the Still Wind


17 Sorcery/Instants

4 Brainstorm
4 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Counterspell


4 Artifacts/Enchantments

1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Standstill


23 Lands

1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand


15 Side Board

2 Flusterstorm
3 Skullsnatcher
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sakashima's Student
1 Pithing Needle
1 Silent-blade Oni
2 Throat Slitter
1 Invasive Surgery


The side board is a little odd right now, and then packed with some powerful side board technology, the non ninja cards are actually pretty serious side board tech. The Ninja's are there for utility and to apply more pressure on the opponent. Skullsnatcher is definitely useful against graveyard based strategies, the downside is he can only trigger during your turn. Sakashima's Student I think is a very cheap and efficient clone, which is useful against some of the bigger threats out there. Throat Slitter is extra creature removal.

My 2 cents:
Pretty sure u want to play some number of baleful strix, I would cut all ninjas but deep hour (they feel a little underwhelming) now if u want to play a 1 drop I'll choose the faerie miscreant or the evergreen DRS but not sure if some discard, like thoughtseize, would just be better.

U definitely want mutavoult for spellscutter as well.

Hope this helps.

I like the inclusion of mistblade Shinobi as it can clear away an opponents chance to race you even under standstill. I am not actually sure you need any of the more expensive Ninjas. Standstill is a grindy strategy and it might be better to dedicate those slots to more permission?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doishy

I like the inclusion of mistblade Shinobi as it can clear away an opponents chance to race you even under standstill. I am not actually sure you need any of the more expensive Ninjas. Standstill is a grindy strategy and it might be better to dedicate those slots to more permission?

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They were actually thrown in originally as a joke (my friends said if I build the deck I have to run Ink-Eyes), but Ink-Eyes has been a really good heavy hitter late game, I do agree more permission would probably be better, I was thinking in the form of the 4th snapcaster though through the flash back? or is that too greedy? I was thinking if I remove those 2, I should up the snapcaster and add vendilion clique, but it might be better to add another counterspell and spell pierce?

I really like the Mistblade bounce their last guy, jam standstill interaction lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jayfranck

My 2 cents:
Pretty sure u want to play some number of baleful strix, I would cut all ninjas but deep hour (they feel a little underwhelming) now if u want to play a 1 drop I'll choose the faerie miscreant or the evergreen DRS but not sure if some discard, like thoughtseize, would just be better.

U definitely want mutavoult for spellscutter as well.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks! I've definitely been considering Thoughtseize and Baleful Strix, Faerie Miscreant I feel doesn't do enough on its own. I feel I want at least 8 ninjas though, Mistblade being a 1/1 is what I think makes it underwhelming, but the bounce effect I think is very impactful, also being able to cheaply buy back spellstutter sprite early game gets so much more value out of the sprite.

I'll definitely try out Mutavault, I like the thought of being able to have it animate itself and flash spellstutter sprite for a stronger early game.

Thanks for the suggestions!

The realization that the Silent Blade Oni trigger pops your own standstill has killed my boner for this deck
I think that playing a couple of Ninjas in a more normal standstill deck is possibly fine but if you are attacking unblocked with factory/snap under a standstill aren't you already winning anyway?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

The realization that the Silent Blade Oni trigger pops your own standstill has killed my boner for this deck
I think that playing a couple of Ninjas in a more normal standstill deck is possibly fine but if you are attacking unblocked with factory/snap under a standstill aren't you already winning anyway?

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Silent-Blade Oni is a may trigger, so you only really break standstill with it if you want to.

Also, yes... Turns out standstill is pretty good without ninjas, the goal of this is to have the ninjas though.

I don't get the buyback part. Is the assumption that Mistblade Shinobi lets you return your own creatures to your hand? Because it's only the person you dealt combat damage to, which should never be to yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

I don't get the buyback part. Is the assumption that Mistblade Shinobi lets you return your own creatures to your hand? Because it's only the person you dealt combat damage to, which should never be to yourself.

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No, the buy back is part of the ninjutsu cost.

:1::0::1:Return an unblocked attacker you control to hand: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand tapped and attacking.

Baleful Strix is really too good to not be played, c'mon, it's perfect for this deck.
And a Standstill deck with Black but without DRS...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scaryrawr

No, the buy back is part of the ninjutsu cost.

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Of course! Okay, you've got my interest now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Memories of the Time

Baleful Strix is really too good to not be played, c'mon, it's perfect for this deck.
And a Standstill deck with Black but without DRS...

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Well DRS is not always needed.
I always envision Standstill with the aim of T1 - Stop first interaction (Either Kill spell, discard spell or hold a counter), T2 Standstill wherever possible. Yes, it is often you would want to have a counter or protection to allow SS to stick however if they hold up the possibility of that, you can always wait (as this is a deck about pro-actively waiting). I think DRS just opens you up to either having it get killed (loss of tempo) or allowing the opponent to get a foot on the ground early (which you don't want).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

Of course! Okay, you've got my interest now.

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Can the Pirate King really be interested in ninjas? jk jk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doishy

Well DRS is not always needed.
I always envision Standstill with the aim of T1 - Stop first interaction (Either Kill spell, discard spell or hold a counter), T2 Standstill wherever possible. Yes, it is often you would want to have a counter or protection to allow SS to stick however if they hold up the possibility of that, you can always wait (as this is a deck about pro-actively waiting). I think DRS just opens you up to either having it get killed (loss of tempo) or allowing the opponent to get a foot on the ground early (which you don't want).

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I agree about not including DRS in this deck, like you said, our main goal is to prevent our opponent from getting board state so we can jam Standstill at some point. If you look at a lot of the normal UB Standstill lists, they don't really run DRS either, but I feel they do have more 1 mana permission spells, which may make us a little weaker not having those.

A lot of my spell choices are kind of based off of this WUR list from aznfoodgood, but instead of the Stoneforge package, we're going with a Ninjutsu package, and trying to take more advantage of the fact we get our Snapcasters and Spellstutter Sprites back (which is why I think we can kind of get away with not having so many 1cc interaction spells). Our mana base is a lot less greedy though, but I think our early fight is very much the same.

There's an old "rat deck" concept which runs ETB creatures plus ninjutsu, but Corrupt Court Official and Ravenous Rats probably aren't enough of a value train these days.

I tried out Mutavault in some play tests with friends before the weekly, they felt very underwhelming compared to Mishra's Factory.

Played in a weekly, went 2-1-1 today.

2-0 Portent Miracles
Turns out Spellstutter Sprite is amazing against cantrips and Swords to Plowshares. They also cannot play under Standstill.

Game 1, Ninjas were a no show, but Sprite and Factory are the real deal.

Side boarding: They're really light on creatures, so I didn't feel I needed the removal package.
In:

2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Invasive Surgery
3 Skullsnatcher


Out:

3 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Fatal Push


Skullsnatcher I feel is better than Mistblade in this match up, since it can cut off their Snapcaster Mage, and is also more of a clock, I also feel we don't need too much removal, and are more worried about Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

2-1 Burn
Sprite works some magic, Umezawa's Jitte is really good here, and Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni packs a punch.

Game 1. Mulled to 5, only got to play lands until I died.

Side boarding:
In:

2 Flusterstorm
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Pithing Needle
1 Throat Slitter


Out:

2 Diabolic Edict
1 Higure, the Still Wind
3 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Force of Will


A lot of their creatures have haste, so I felt Mistblade wasn't too good here, and Throat Slitter would be better. Pithing Needle is to hit Grim Lavamancer, Invasive Surgery for Lava Spike, Flame Rift, or Chain Lightning.

Game 2. Turn 1, played an EE on 1, didn't see a creature till much later game. Sprite and Factory were the clock until I got to ninja out Ninja of the Deep Hours He was able to land a Sulfuric Vortex but after I had a couple counters on Jitte (on a ninja, so much flavor...), so I was able to gain 4 life. Got more counters and killed his Eidolon with it and then Fatal Pushed a Guide. He ended up Fireblasting my Ninja when I swung for 7, but he couldn't follow up the following turn.

Game 3. Pretty crazy, lots of well timed Spell Pierce and Flusterstorms. Ended up ninjaing out Ink-Eyes which ended the game quickly with some counters to back it up.

1-2 Show&Tell
Game 1. I think game 1 went ideal with having the counters when needed, being able to get back Sprite for ninjas was a huge help at cutting off all his cantrips and drawing more cards.

Side boarding:
In:

2 Sakashima's Student
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Throat Slitter
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Silent-Blade Oni


Out:

4 Fatal Push
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servent of Oni
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Umezawa's Jitte


I think taking out Ninja of the Deep Hours is a mistake, the card draw is really powerful. Silent-Blade Oni is being removed from the 75... and being replace with Vendilion Clique. Throat Slitter I feel can be really powerful for getting an Emrakul off the board. Sakashima's Student can copy any of their legendaries if played using ninjutsu (not off the show&tell). Oni, I thought would be awesome if I could draw out the game somehow and get out of his legendaries, I'm giving up on this dream.

Game 2. Had to mull, ended up with no permission spells. He had a turn 1 with force back up.

Game 3. Had the permission spells and a clock, he drew out one permission spell with a Cunning Wish which I think was just bait for it. The following turn he had Show and Tell into Omniscience into Emrakul. When he cast Show&Tell I had a Sprite in play with a Mistblade and Throat Slitter in hand. I put Mistblade into play hoping he was just going to Show&Tell in Emrakul and I could ninja out the sprite and destroy the Emrakul, I think this was a mistake, because what if he put in Griselbrand? I think it would have been better to try to bounce his creature with Mistblade if Omniscience wasn't there.

ID Scapeshift
We played for fun, I misplayed a ton, and I didn't realize he was scapeshift until it happened.

Side:
In:

3 Skullsnatcher
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Silent-blade Oni
1 Invasive Surgery


Out:

2 Diabolic Edict
2 Fatal Push
3 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servent of Oni


I messed up with exiling his graveyard, I forgot that Nic Fit tends to run Eternal Witness and he was able to get his enabler back into hand. I think this is one of the only match ups where you can get out Oni since you get basics off of Veteran explorer. Skullsnatcher is definitely great against decks that use the graveyard though.

This is the second time I've tried the deck in a weekly, and I feel it has potential, but is really expecting fair match ups. Oni is being replaced with a Clique in the side board. Sprites I feel are awesome. Ninja of the Deep Hours and Ink-Eyes I feel right now are the most well rounded ninjas in the deck (Ink-Eyes!). Skullsnatcher I really like in the side, as well as Throat Slitter, Sakashima's Student I haven't really gotten out yet, and I feel needs more testing, I think replacing him with Thoughtseize might be correct. Mistblade in some match ups is underwhelming, mostly from the fact he's a 1/1, but definitely makes you feel more secure, especially being the cheapest way to buy back Sprite and Snapcaster.

I played ninja still a lot when it was legal in the old extended format. I recall stifle being played there and it was very powerful.

Others worth mentioning were ornithopter, mothdust changling and swarmyard (deck played mutavault)

I absolutely love this idea! I mentioned Ninja of the Deep Hours for UB Landstill to some friends a couple of weeks ago, but they kind of laughed at me :P I need to pick a few more up, but I'd like to give this a go for sure.

How are the bigger ninjas (Higura, Ink Eyes etc) performing? I think my first idea for a list just had four Deep Hours and a couple of Mistblades so not as deep on ninjas as you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I absolutely love this idea! I mentioned Ninja of the Deep Hours for UB Landstill to some friends a couple of weeks ago, but they kind of laughed at me :P I need to pick a few more up, but I'd like to give this a go for sure.

How are the bigger ninjas (Higura, Ink Eyes etc) performing? I think my first idea for a list just had four Deep Hours and a couple of Mistblades so not as deep on ninjas as you.

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The ninja package I feel that is super solid are the 4 Ninja of the Deep Hours and the 1 of Ink-Eyes. Mistblade is very match up dependent, taking him out for more removal or permission spells I think may improve the list, but at the same time makes it harder to get back your Sprites and Snapcasters (which you may not need to get back so aggressively if you have more removal/permission). I think normal UB Standstill with just Ninja of the Deep Hours is the solid way to go if you want ninjas. UB Standstill is so good, Deep Hours being 2/2 and getting back snapcaster I think has a lot of value, plus the card draw.

Ink-Eyes has been an amazing performer (which surprised me), she was put in there cause I was told if I'm playing a ninja deck, it has to have Ink-Eyes. The big thing is the 5 power and Regenerate for 1B. Being able to trade with Batterskull, Tarmogoyf, Gurmag Angler, Reality Smasher and staying on the table.

Higure's ability seems sweet on paper, but in practice, he doesn't feel worthwhile as a 3/4 for 2UU. I think if his ninjutsu cost was 3, he'd be amazing. So I'm thinking a vendilion clique here would be better (or just another permission spell, or the 4th Standstill), but I still want to try him out more just to confirm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

I played ninja still a lot when it was legal in the old extended format. I recall stifle being played there and it was very powerful.

Others worth mentioning were ornithopter, mothdust changling and swarmyard (deck played mutavault)

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I've seen some older lists running Ornithopter and other cheap fliers, but I don't feel you get enough value from getting an Ornithopter back in your hand, I think maybe if you're just trying to power out a ninja every turn?

Did the list play Stifle, or just Stifle can hit ninjutsu? I saw older standstill lists use to play stifle, but the newer ones don't. I think it's because even if you mana denial your opponent, while standstill is out they can just keep doing "Draw-Land-Go" with you for a bit, and fetch "safely" while standstill is out. I haven't played too much standstill until this week, so I may be wrong (I can't find too many standstill videos either to see how people play it and build around it).

http://i.imgur.com/uUTwOAX.jpg?1

$15 bucks to give this a spin?

Ninja please.

Haha, I just ordered the few bits I'm missing too :cool:

Edit:

I think I'll try something along these lines first

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Brainstorm
4 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
3 Standstill
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland

I played UWR Ninjas for a while and deck felt really good. I wasn't on the standstill plan, but just as an advice, two-mana removal can sometimes be akward (advantage of UWR was having both STP+Bolt) with ninjutsu. Mistblade Shinobi is a no-go, it doesn't work as good as it feels. A card that has surprisingly good value in these builds is Augur of Bolas. Great two drop that can find you a removal spell + you can rebuy it with ninjutsu for insane value.

Stoked to see ninja thread. Some ninja talk (pre-ban) and history on ninjas in Legacy at 1:15:55 - 1:24:32

http://www.eternalcentral.com/tusk-t...-conspiracy-2/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by owerbart

I played UWR Ninjas for a while and deck felt really good. I wasn't on the standstill plan, but just as an advice, two-mana removal can sometimes be akward (advantage of UWR was having both STP+Bolt) with ninjutsu. Mistblade Shinobi is a no-go, it doesn't work as good as it feels. A card that has surprisingly good value in these builds is Augur of Bolas. Great two drop that can find you a removal spell + you can rebuy it with ninjutsu for insane value.

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Yeah, I found this out last night about Mistblade, my creature base was:

4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Mistblade Shinobi
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni


Ink-Eyes still feels good, Mistblade feels good the first time he hits... then he kind of sits there. I think it's mainly the 1/1 body, it's not scary to block.

I've definitely been thinking about a color splash for more 1 drop interaction, but I feel it's mostly me being bad at Landstill at the moment lol, and being too deep into the ninja plan lol. I'm planing on running a more serious sideboard now, and I think just the Deep Hours and Ink-Eyes main. I've also been wondering if Force Spike would be a good addition, the first couple turns are so important to get this deck going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hymnyou

Stoked to see ninja thread. Some ninja talk (pre-ban) and history on ninjas in Legacy at 1:15:55 - 1:24:32

http://www.eternalcentral.com/tusk-t...-conspiracy-2/

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That was funny to listen to, I hope they bring back ninjutsu in future sets.

I was watching whitefaces stream and brew with Ninjas, and it got me thinking. Even though, Ninjutsu works without breaking Standstill, I feel we have a lack of early game business spells, he brewed a UB Ninja control type list, didn't see it in a league, but he did play a few games with it. Here's a screenshot of some stuff he had in towards the end:
http://i.imgur.com/BVesX8Y.png

I'm going to try something similar, but with a red splash for Bolts and Kolaghan's Command. I'll edit this post later with the list and how it went.

This was so much fun to play :laugh:

Red splash sounds nice, the manabase shouldn't be too hard. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

EDIT: I feel like this image needs to be shared too :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/EJFN9t1.jpg?1

So no more Standstill? Probably without manland red is very easy to add

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Memories of the Time

So no more Standstill? Probably without manland red is very easy to add

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Yeah... I really like that Ninjas can play under Standstill, but trying it out, I feel they take up the same slots in the deck, so your consistency is really thrown off. Edit: I still want to try it though, I'm just thinking of how to modify it so we have enough business spells, and enough creatures to get ninjas and value.

So! Grixis Ninja Control - Shiny Greninja -
http://i.imgur.com/AX3BRye.png

Main

9 Ninja Enablers

3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite


8 Ninjas

4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Throat Slitter
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni


22 Instants/Sorceries

4 Brainstorm
1 Night's Whisper
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Thoughtseize
1 Forked Bolt
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will


1 Artifact

1 Umezawa's Jitte


20 Lands

2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland


Side

2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Skullsnatcher
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize


Tonight I went 2-2, but the list felt a lot more solid.

0-2 Elves
2-1 Soldier Stompy
2-1 UWr Prison - RIP-Helm Control
0-2 Grixis Control (Punted game 1 horribly)

I also played some fun games against UWr Standstill, karakas is good against the legendaries. I think that with the bolts and pushes, it might be good to cut some, and put in a couple ponder or maybe more permission? and the Night's Whisper maybe a Painful Truths?

Edit: I'm really bad with Thoughtseize which is why I think I lost a few of the games...

Edit 2:
Some notes.
Having all the early game removal was awesome. Things that Fatal Push had trouble removing, Bolt seemed to hit just fine, and vice-versa. Higure was surprisingly good. Being able to clear the way early, and then being able to make dudes unblockable, as well as tutor for other ninjas, I kind of found myself going Higure, fetch Okiba-Gang Shinobi or Throat Slitter (Ninja of the Deep Hours if the other ones weren't useful at the time). Kolaghan's Command was really powerful, being able to buy back creatures, destroy artifacts, make players discard, etc.

Also, I feel it's best to not cast Ninjas even if you can... They really have to be dealt with, and playing them into a counterspell feels so bad...

I'm thinking maybe I can get Standstill back into the deck... (I wrote this up at midnight last night, so was really tired).
I think take out 1 Wasteland, 1 Spellstutter Sprite, 1 Okiba-Gang (lets be real, he's probably the least effective), 1 Forked Bolt, 1 Fatal Push, 1 Night's Whisper, 1 Kolaghan's Command, and put in 4 Mishra's Factory, 3 Standstill? Hm...

4 Ornithopter
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Trinket Mage

4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder
1 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shuriken
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chrome Mox

1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Faerie Conclave
5 Island
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Pendelhaven
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swarmyard
1 Tolaria West

maybe a green splash for Goyf? Would add a little beef. Also Mistbind Clique seems hot here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kanti

4 Ornithopter
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Trinket Mage

4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder
1 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shuriken
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chrome Mox

1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Faerie Conclave
5 Island
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Pendelhaven
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swarmyard
1 Tolaria West

maybe a green splash for Goyf? Would add a little beef. Also Mistbind Clique seems hot here.

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I think the splash should be one of the strong removal colors. If you splash white in this list, you get access to Spell Queller as well as Swords to Plowshares and Council's Judgement. If you want to stay mono blue, Cryptic Serpent is a new heavy hitter, but I'm not sure you have enough Instants/Sorceries to really enable him, but in Landstill decks, I think it's fine for him to cost a little more than normal later game (Whitefaces and I throw in Ink-Eyes for fun). Jace, the Mind Sculptor isn't a creature, but if you gain control of the board, he can help maintain control as well as bounce your own Spellstutter Sprite if you have to.

Mistbind Clique looks like a heavy hitter to me, as well as Vendilion Clique.

My biggest worry with the list though is the amount of ways you have early game interaction, there's a lot of Elves running around as well as Delver. I also feel a few of the creatures you don't get enough value out of, they enable you to ninja, but I'm not sure that's enough.

I forgot to mention I also played the list I posted on the previous page at my LGS last week to a 4-0 finish, playing vs High Tide 2-0, Burn 2-0, Lands 2-0 and ANT 2-1.

Played the below today to a 3-0-1 finish vs BUG Midrange 2-1, Punishing Thieves 1-1, Spanish Inquisition 2-1 and Lands 2-0.

It's probably more apt to call it FaerieStill, though, as there's a few less Ninjas than before (or maybe they're just hiding!?). It's feeling pretty decent actually!

4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Standstill

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Fatal Push
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Thoughtseize
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Toxic Deluge

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand

SB:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Invasive Surgery
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Submerge
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Hydroblast

Standstill and Ninja of the deep hours are two cards that at first glance may seem to fit together, but in reality they just don't. In fact they rather exclude each other mutually because they serve the same purpose, i.e. generating card advantage and playing them both is just unnecessary and wastes valuable deck space. There are way better methods of forcing your opponent to trigger Standstill with manlands probably being the best. Since Ninja of the Deep hours is the primary reason to build on Ninjas in the first place and because it is, if we were honest, a severly lacking card from more than a decade ago, I suggest to abandon the Ninja deck idea because it sucks. Think about it, would a Grizzly Bear with inbuilt cantrip be considered worthwhile by today's standards? I think the gradually decreasing numbers of Ninjas in the deck lists posted here corroborate my argument.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa

Standstill and Ninja of the deep hours are two cards that at first glance may seem to fit together, but in reality they just don't. In fact they rather exclude each other mutually because they serve the same purpose, i.e. generating card advantage and playing them both is just unnecessary and wastes valuable deck space. There are way better methods of forcing your opponent to trigger Standstill with manlands probably being the best. Since Ninja of the Deep hours is the primary reason to build on Ninjas in the first place and because it is, if we were honest, a severly lacking card from more than a decade ago, I suggest to abandon the Ninja deck idea because it sucks. Think about it, would a Grizzly Bear with inbuilt cantrip be considered worthwhile by today's standards? I think the gradually decreasing numbers of Ninjas in the deck lists posted here corroborate my argument.

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I agree with your first point to an extent, Ninja and SS can play a similar role, but it's not as black and white as that. Ninja is additional pressure to pull much further ahead than usual under a SS, as well as another angle for the deck to attack on and generate card advantage (which is the main reason I've been liking it).

I'm not going to lie, I built the deck first for fun, but Ninja has been impressive as a standalone card, especially with the synergy of bouncing back Sprites, Snapcasters and Cliques. To call Ninja unnecessary and a waste of deck space for the reasons you give is simply wrong, it's obviously not just a grizzly bear with Curiosity either as it would essentially have haste and give you a Spellstutter Sprite or Snapcaster Mage too. Is it good enough? Maybe not, but it's at times been way better than a Standstill could be. I suggest giving the deck a try!

Went 3-1 at Card Kingdom tonight with a very Ninja Pile list.

Main

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Night's Whisper
2 Thoughtseize

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta


Side

2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Night's Whisper
1 Thoughtseize


Round 1 - Jund
Game 1, He kept a 2 lander and just never saw more lands
Game 2, I kept a greedy hand banking on a Brainstorm, he thoughtseized me and that just set the tone...
Game 3, We both made our land drops, but he got stuck waiting for double black. Misplayed Kolaghan's Commanding his face, when I should have killed a deathrite, I had 2 Snapcasters and he was at 6, he ended up trading and clearing my board and he played a Lili... Luckily I was able to Strix into Strix and get him down.

Round 2 - Jeskai Stonestill (Dude Ranch) - Currently available on the stream (games 2 & 3).
Game 1, He got there, I take care of an early stoneforge, but he's able to just get there with a SoFI and Factories.
Game 2, I'm able to get board presence and ahead on cards. Land a Jace and take over the board, he scoops.
Game 3, Super well timed draws and I just kind of stay ahead. He almost catches up at one point with a SoFI which I take care of with EE.

Round 3 - BUG Delver
Game 1, Mull to 5, try keeping up... I almost stabilize at 1. He top decks a deathrite, I draw a blank.
Game 2, I keep a Fatal Push, Ninja of the Deep hours, 5 Lands (I don't know what I was thinking...). He thoughtseizes taking Fatal Push... yeah #punt

Round 4 - MUD
Game 1, He plays a Metalworker... I try finding an answer, none are found.
Game 2, I'm able to keep up and keep control of the board despite a chalice on 1 and get there.
Game 3, I keep his side of the board clear and get him pretty low. He then plays the 8/8 guy that prevents his life from changing and gives it shroud. End up using a Ninja of the Deep hours to get all my creatures back in hand and Toxic Deluge for 8. Then I end up getting there.

My thoughts...

Spell Piece I felt was very powerful, having the ability to counter something relevant early, or kill it with removal is huge. I kind of feel I can go down on Thoughtseize and go back up Spellstutter Sprites or other Ninjas (I think the thing with going up other ninjas is risking not drawing into creatures to ninja out the ninjas). Night's Whipser can be a freaking house in grindy match ups. Kolaghan's Command feels broken at times. Terminate is greedy, but the fact it can destroy any creature is huge. Ink-Eyes feels awesome, but realistically if you get it out, typically you were winning by a good bit already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTIRicgcj58

Just went 3-2 in a league with the list below:
http://i.imgur.com/NgL47Tx.png
2-1 vs Mono Red Storm - no vid
2-1 vs Infect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NMYwUYFFww
2-0 vs Grixis Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UimACMj0ed0
0-2 vs Big Eldrazi - Probably should have left in Ink-Eyes...
0-2 vs Grixis Control

Last two are in same video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8W228RRQk

I made some mistakes, I may also sound annoying... was nervous on camera. The Arcane Lab in the side I feel is very meh, against Mono Red Storm it helped, but it just feels too slow for most match ups. I think there is some value in limiting players to 1 spell a turn, but currently we're not running enough ninjas or man lands to guarantee we function better under it. Daze actually feels very powerful in the side (I'll have to check my paper list sometime to see what I'm running...). I took out Okiba-Gang Shinobi for a 2nd Jace, I think I want to move the second Jace to the side and add in another Deep Hours. Ink-Eyes I feel should come out, but I don't have the heart to remove... I think another Higure might be good for tutoring purposes, or another Throat Slitter, just... love hitting with Ink-Eyes.

Toshiro is actually pretty awesome at times. I mess up a lot though with chaining removal and tapping the correct lands...

Went 4-0 yesterday in my local LGS, here in Brazil.

I used your last interaction (from twitch) and changed some numbers:

Maindeck

Creatures (14)

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (19)

1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire

Spells (25)

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Night's Whisper
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Night's Whisper
1 Cabal Therapy

First of all, I think the list was very nice and I didn't feel losing anytime (only when I was at 1 life against Grixis Delver and without lands against Elves).

MU results:
Elves: 2-1
MonoR Prision: 2-1
Grixis Delver: 2-0
Grixis Delver: 2-0

Let's go with all the likes and dislikes:

1 - This list is insane when you have the right amount of lands in play, missing land drop means hard games. The list maybe needs more lands.
2 - The NDH is cute, but maybe too much situational than expected, he needs a lot of setup. If you are winning he is insane, if you are losing he is the worst topdeck ever. I just casted him twice in the whole tournament (He was good one special time, getting back Clique), but shuffled him a lot with BS. Maybe cutting some numbers is the correct move.
3 - I changed the Terminate from your list because is impossible to cast it correctly against some decks, Edict was easier to cast, but maybe Go for the Throat can be the right decision for the MD.
4 - Stutters overperfomed as legacy is a cantrip (1 mana) format. Maybe going to the full set is the right decision.

The rest of the cards where great when I needed, liked a lot.

Some cards that may have come to my mind to test:
Go for the Throat - as replace to Diabolic Edict MD.
Bitterblossom (1 off) - this card can put a lot of pressure and hold some aggros and has synergy with SS, the life loss is hard though.

TL;DR:

The deck is very nice, must be in constant evolution, play it and have fun !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlosTiberioJr

Went 4-0 yesterday in my local LGS, here in Brazil.

1 - This list is insane when you have the right amount of lands in play, missing land drop means hard games. The list maybe needs more lands.
2 - The NDH is cute, but maybe too much situational than expected, he needs a lot of setup. If you are winning he is insane, if you are losing he is the worst topdeck ever. I just casted him twice in the whole tournament (He was good one special time, getting back Clique), but shuffled him a lot with BS. Maybe cutting some numbers is the correct move.
3 - I changed the Terminate from your list because is impossible to cast it correctly against some decks, Edict was easier to cast, but maybe Go for the Throat can be the right decision for the MD.
4 - Stutters overperfomed as legacy is a cantrip (1 mana) format. Maybe going to the full set is the right decision.

The rest of the cards where great when I needed, liked a lot.

Some cards that may have come to my mind to test:
Go for the Throat - as replace to Diabolic Edict MD.
Bitterblossom (1 off) - this card can put a lot of pressure and hold some aggros and has synergy with SS, the life loss is hard though.

TL;DR:

The deck is very nice, must be in constant evolution, play it and have fun !

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Thanks for trying it out! And that's an awesome finish!

I tried Bitterblossom in the list when I was still trying out Standstill, and it does feel very strong with Spellstutter Sprite.

The Ninjas are definitely the most awkward cards in the deck, Spellstutter Sprite can be a house on it's own, I've actually been trying out a new card (I stole it from the man, the myth, the legend, aznfoodgood) Curfew as another way to get our ETB creatures back, and a way to get troublesome creatures off the board, it creates for a lot of fun interactions, get sprite to dodge removal, and replay to counter stuff lol. I've actually taken Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni out of my own list because of how awkward it gets at times, I still run 1 Higure, the Still Wind. I've taken out a few of the flavor flave cards, and am aiming for more streamlined lists. I've been trying out Hymn to Tourach over Thoughtseize and have been finding it interesting. Today I tried "Czech Ninjas" and went 3-2 in a league. I feel the Grixis lists are the strongest right now. I'm also building an Esper list, because I feel at times Fatal Push or Lightning Bolt just don't hit certain creatures I really want to, and Diabolic Edict gives the opponent too much choice, and we're more of a control deck than an aggro deck, so giving our opponent life tends to work out OK.

Hymn To Ninja (Grixis): http://imgur.com/RoCzHA0
Esper Ninjas: http://imgur.com/a/C9opz
Czech Ninjas: http://imgur.com/OIv7MEG

I've been misplaying a ton lol, learning all these new cards (I'm typically the Burn player in a room), but I feel the deck does have a lot of potential, and Ninja can take over a game when you draw it out enough, our early game seems pretty weak, but like, the fun of just hitting people with ninjas I feel is worth it lol.

New Ninja!?!?

[IMG]www.mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/yurikothetigersshadow.jpg[/IMG]

I feel this new ninja will be pretty fun, and it brought me back to ninjas tonight at MBH Bellevue even though it's not out yet!

4-0 UB Ninja Control

2-0 RB Reanimator
2-1 ANT
2-1 Reanimator Depths Living Wish
2-0 ANT

Deck has pretty decent combo matchup, I stuck in 2 TNN in the side as well as 2 clones, and 3 Edicts to help with fair matchups which I managed to dodge. The man is definitely all over the place, I think Bitterblossom gives a lot of strength. I really wanted to go more in on the flavor (got the Umezawa family going on (except for Tetsuo (sorry!)), got Sakashima and his student in the side), but also wanted to have something that can kind of win. A big goal this iteration was to get further away from being Grixis Control and be more in on the creature plan.

I think one of the biggest struggles the deck has is with fair matchups, but I didn't run into any today. TNN I think helps a ton with fair matchups, and using Sakashima and Sakashima's Student to make more true names just sounded fun, also being able to up the amount of removal seemed good as well.

For squeezing in the extra bitterblossom I feel toshiro, venser, or lili should be cut from the main... I also think it would be good to go back up strix and snapcaster...

Main

4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1 Toshiro Umezawa
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Higure, the Still Wind
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Fatal Push
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
2 Bitterblossom
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
3 Island
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mutavault
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand

Side

2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Sakashima's Student
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Throat Slitter
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Diabolic Edict

All Ninjas suck and are far below the power level of the format. It's the strength of the other cards (Standstill, FoW etc.) which carry these kind of decks and make terrible cards like Ninja of the Deep Hours seemingly playable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scaryrawr

After playing in a few pauper tournaments, I've really fallen for ninjas...

Should be be Stilljutsu, Stillnobi, Still Silence???

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Shadow Tiger Hidden Oni

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa

All Ninjas suck and are far below the power level of the format. It's the strength of the other cards (Standstill, FoW etc.) which carry these kind of decks and make terrible cards like Ninja of the Deep Hours seemingly playable

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This coming from someone pushing for Night's Whisper and mono-black control? Come on now, just because it isn't your jank doesn't mean it's bad.

Deep Hours + Spellstutter/Strix is a legitimate engine to build around. Force/Thoughtseize allow you to gain time to put the engine to work. Honestly I think the card that pushes it into competitiveness is Fatal Push; it really needed an efficient removal.