As an FYI you can't crypt a progenitus. His ability is a replacement. You can however Crypt an Emrakul
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As an FYI you can't crypt a progenitus. His ability is a replacement. You can however Crypt an Emrakul
Well, giving new life to the topic and after testing a Ub configuration i bring a new list created considering the actual metagame. I went 6-0-2 in a huge tournament with the following list (nop, i could not enter the top 8 by standings, incredible):
// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
6 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Underground Sea
1 [DM] Swamp (2)
1 [5E] Forest (2)
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [U] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
I first began testing with goyf + jitte but i didn't feel safe. With the best know configuration with Drednought + stifle pack i got more blue cards to pitch to fow and stablish a good control of the game before going off or dropping a 12/12 trampe.
The highlights here are my last inclussion Jace the mind sculptor, a risky card for confidant but an awesome one to set the lock. In the side Perish is crucial, destroys almost every thread of you opo: goyf, progenitus, hierarch, mounts of elves, trygon predators and so on. The few things i doub is running just 2 mages (confidant compensates this 2 of) having a small "toolbox": Tormod's crypt + Needle. Grindstone and phyrexian are not considered part of this toolbox because they are in greater amounts (2 and 3 respectivelly).
I decided running 3 PD over 2 Grindstone becasuse is the most vulnerable plan: sword to plowshares, Path to exile, Quasali pridemage (grindstorn too) and so on. So running 3 12/12 makes us less dependant of T. mage to get another.
Well suggestions are welcomed as well as question and eneral comments.
Thx!!
Cool list and congratulations on your finish. JaceTM is so awesome I don't think it matters much about flipping one to DC, besides once you have DC+Jace how can you lose?
Secondly, you run stifle+waste+dreadnought but don't capitalize on your mana taxing. Why? I'm not saying its wrong but it is common practice.
Third, the 3/2 Stifle/Trickbind split was for counterbalance right?
Last, and I realize this is crazy to say, Tarmogoyf isn't a big enough threat anymore. With Survival doing 16 on turn 4, and KotR running rampant he isn't what he used to be when the format was faster. I completely agree with you cutting them.
Last, last, nice use of the Dreadnought since removal is at an all time low I agree that it pays to be more greedy.
Thx for your comments!!
I don't understand the term " capitalize on your mana taxing" maybe is a maTTEr of language but if you can explain it i would be graceful.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
Yes. At first i wanted to run spell snare but i could make it place so i tried to cover the most dangerous mana cost in magic = 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
Agree to all. Goyf didn't make it during testig except i was equiped with jitte which is, for me, too mana intensive. And a dead goyf i a lost guy in the deck, we can't retrieve or tutor it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
maybe x1 Muddle the Mixture? searches for Counterbalance, Painter, Trickbind, Goyf... even Jitte or Confidant if you really needed it to.
Mmm...i don't know. I mean, i understand the utility of MtM but i'm not sure if it worth for cutting something of my list. The tutoring / draw engine provided by top, confidant, BS and mage usually is enought to get what i want.Quote:
Originally Posted by henry808
Between Wasteland+Stifle/Trickbind you have a good level of mana disruption. Most decks that run these cards (Canadian Thresh, Dreadstill, New Horizons) also run Daze and/or Spell pierce to take advantage of the mana that you are already denying your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
I don't see how wasteland fits into the strategy of the deck except that it's nice with stifles which are nice with Dreadnoughts.
I hope that makes my idea clear enough for you to answer.
Perfectly clear. When i constructed de list i say: "Oh, i have no daze. Does it really matters?" Sincerely i didn't find place for it running counter - top the same goes for spell pierce. I don't know. Should i cut 3 CB and 1 top in foavour of 4 Daze / pierce???Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
Once counter - top is set i feel safe but i understand that drop top the CB and have enought mana to activate it takes time but well i like running confidant + counter - top.
A change that i see useful is cut 1 Pithing needle for 1 Executioner's capsule to make a spot removal slot regarding needle just to the side? Is this wrong??
I tried a similar list to the old ones with 4 MD Spell Snare and was really digging it as well. I also frequently use the painter:blue and reb in the board which becomes obscenely useful if they already happen to be playing blue.
Grats GoldenCid. I built a similar BUG list a year back and did well in my local tourney. It had Trinkets, Bobs, Goyfs, Dreadnoughts, Painterstone combo lol. But I agree that green is no longer relevant with the speed of today's format. Just UB is the way to go, and now with Jace 2.0, I might work on your list to see what I can cook up.
Next to see decks like Dreadstalker get back to the meta! I think these decks have been forgotten but actually work really well in the meta so far.
Agree. In the last days i was thinking that the only use i'd give to goyf is in a "flip board" to avoid Grips and needles sideboarded. It could be 4 Goyf + 2 Stalker (classic) or 4 Goyf + 2 Jitte or even 4 Goyf + 2 Meloku!! Keep stifle dreadnought pack in and boarding the painter- stone. This because with increase of frequency that i see Emrakul in the boards...and off course some survivals run it MD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwalker
Hi All,
A fan of Next Level Painter coming back to MTG after a long hiatus. I do tend to use white as a secondary color instead of black. Here's my deck.
4 x Sensei's Divining Top
4 x Counterbalance
4 x Painter's Servant
4 x Grindstone
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Ponder
4 x Enlightened Tutor
4 x Counterspell
4 x Force of Will
4 x Swords to Plowshares
4 x Flooded Strand
4 x Misty Rain Forest
1 x Academy Ruins
3 x Islands
4 x Tundra
4 x Hallowed Fountain
Was thinking of putting in Engineered Explosives since I can recur it with Academy Ruins and Jace as another win condition but I can't think of anything to take out ... Do you think it would be wise taking out Counterspell just to put in 2 Engineered Explosives and 2 Jace TMS?
Any thoughts, comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
A few Ancient Tombs might be nice to accelerate into an early Grindstone kill, or play Top and activate on the same turn, or turn 3 Jace, etc. The Hallowed Fountains are really unnecessary. Fetches + duals + basics is flexible enough for 2 color.
4 Ponder is too many, especially with 4 E. Tutor. If you're going to add EE, I would play Trinket Mage instead of E. Tutor anyway. It's card advantage instead of disadvantage, and will get most of what you need (Top, Grindstone, EE). Then I would include 1 EE, 1 Pithing Needle, or 1 Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt
So I would make the following changes:
-4 Hallowed Fountain
-4 Enlightened Tutor
-2 Ponder
-2 Grindstone
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 Counterspell
+3 Ancient Tomb
+1 Seat of the Synod
+3 Trinket Mage
+3 Spell Snare
+2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Pithing Needle
In case you are curious my CBTop-Painter list looks ~like this (at work doing this from memory)
4 Cbalance
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
2-3 Trinket Mage
1 Jace TMS
1 Tezz
4 Top
4 Painter Servant
2 Grindstone
1 Tormond's Crypt
1 Pithing needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Exploisives
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Stp
1 Oring
21-22 Lands
Fetches/ basics/duals/ and 1 academy ruins
In my experience ensnaring bridge and pithing needle are mvps. Too many decks in my meta are just not prepared mainboard to deal with them and if nothing else it slows them down enough for you to assemble your combo and win.
Also I enjoy the stability of a two color mana base.
Other thing I have considered doing is just to go combo control drop white and Countertop and go : TFK/LEd's/Ancient Tombs/Dazes/Petals for fast mana and more 0 mana protection.
Or go Black for Drituals/Cabal Rituals/tutors and discards instead of blue.
I just have no time to test and brew and I've been satisfied with the flexibility and resilience of my current list and having a plan B/c in Jace and tezz is nice.
Nowadays ancient tomb with counter - top is a bit auto kill...if you want to speed up your deck i highly recomend running black for dark confidant.
^hence i said i was considering dropping Countertop in those builds.
Also are you implying that confidant would speed up the deck or are you saying that if I were to pick an alternate color for a combo build to go black citing confidant as an additional reason for that color? Cause
I used to play this deck "full combo"...yeah 4 Fow, 4 Daze, the tombs and so on, no c - top, no jace, no confidant. In that time, i remember, you could counter some threats drop your guys and win. With the auge of spot removal and the "edict" ramoval you can't just drop nought or painter without expecting a removal effect in response...moreover, pridemage wasn't printed in those times...so you have to backup your stuff or simply recover it from your library. C - top and D. confidant do that respectively.
Thank you for the reply, keys.
Wouldn't it be better removing Ponder instead of Enlightened Tutor? Enlightened Tutor syncs with Counterbalance if you do not have any Sensei's Divining Top in play and allows you to get any artifact or enchantment from the deck which literally allows you to fetch your combos whether it be Countertop or Painter's Stone. The only drawback is that it goes to the top of your deck instead of your hand which is a card disadvantage of some sort.
Also, do we really need to put in Ancient Tomb if we are not going for the early kill but instead, control the game? I do see your point in putting in Ancient Tomb for the early grind or dropping Jace TMS though.
Lastly, I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts on playing Tezzeret instead of Jace. Jace TMS is a game-breaker but so will Tezzeret since the deck runs 12 - 16 artifacts with Academy Ruins to recur these.
Cheers.
Honestly i would not run other splash than black. It give us much cards for this meta: Perish, extirpate, plague (the best ones for side).Quote:
Originally Posted by Khell
Off course tutor puts on top whatever you want but it's not enought in this aggresive meta. Being predictable is not good.
Tezzeret is awesome indeed, but i wouldn't cut jace or anything else to run him. May be if you play tombs he worths a little more but...
This needs a bump, I think the Tezzeret 2.0 really adds alot to this deck. This is already UB and already runs Jaces. IMO Jaces should be swapped with Tez 2.0. Will this bump painter back up to Tier 1 or at least tier 1.5?