New cards from M11

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Second, there is one minor rules change associated with this set (as opposed to the significant overhaul we did last year). The functionality for the deathtouch mechanic is changing. I'll admit that when we switched last year to not putting combat damage on the stack and requiring blockers to be ordered, it was a difficult challenge to get deathtouch to work similarly to how it did pre-M10. The solution we came to for M10 was rushed, cobbled together in the final weeks before the set went to print, and I (and many of you) felt unsatisfied by it. To that end, we revamped it. I can accept that changing the rules for a mechanic twice in thirteen months is undesirable, but in the long run I'm sure this will prove to be the correct decision.
Starting with M11, deathtouch no longer ignores blocking order in situations involving multiple blockers. Additionally, you only need to assign a single point of damage from a creature with deathtouch to each blocker, which makes deathtouch a potent combination with trample. A 4/4 with trample and deathtouch can assign one damage to a blocking 8/8 and the other 3 damage to the defending player. The full FAQ entry for deathtouch appears below.

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Hell yeah. I remember the (rightful) griping last year about that unsightly hole.

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

No Haste <<<<<<< Haste

Shroud <<<<<<< Troll Shroud

4/5 <<<<<<< 8/5

For one more mana, you get double the power, troll shroud, and haste. That seems decidedly better in almost every situation.


I think that people are underestimating the "Can't be countered" clause on GR. When you invest your 7 mana here, you are not going to lose your investment to a FoW or Daze. Heck, you won't even lose it to a Swords or Path in subsequent turns. KotR, Goyf, Terravore, and the other hyper-efficient beaters of New Horizons do not have these strengths.


The first argument applies to both KotR and Goyf, and is clearly not a disqualifying fact there. The second argument is true in the abstract, but not in the specific where you back up your GR with some removal or countermagic, as novel an idea as that might sound.

GR does not replace anything in Legacy. It supplements it. A deck with Goyf, GR, Summoner's Pact, and a host of other powerful creatures, backed up with light mana acceleraton and Gaea's Cradle (which may die to Wasteland but not before at least one activation), all of which supported by removal or countermagic; those are the makings of a strong deck.

Two cards that come to mind here are Rancor and Berserk. Normally, these cards do not work so well in Legacy. Rancor becomes card disadvantage when its target is killed in response, and Berserk has the same problem. But GR is immune to these considerations. A 16/5 unkillable trampler? Or even a 10/5 unkillable trampler? Again, I have dismissed these two cards for years for the above reasons, but this might be a time to revisit them.

And as to Primeval Titan, I might even go so far as to say that he could be a reliable addition to such a deck. Could he be in an existing deck? I doubt it, not at 6 mana. But decks can evolve to accomodate badasses.

-ktkenshinx-

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You do realize this thing dies in combat, right? All this will do is attack and Tarmogoyf, Terravore, Tombstalker, Doran, Knight of the Reliquary, etc all kill this easily. You don't need to write another 1000 word essay on the strength of the card when all the strengths don't mean shit when it gets blocked.

These Titans were designed to have an excuse to finally ban Sneak Attack in legacy.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

You do realize this thing dies in combat, right? All this will do is attack and Tarmogoyf, Terravore, Tombstalker, Doran, Knight of the Reliquary, etc all kill this easily. You don't need to write another 1000 word essay on the strength of the card when all the strengths don't mean shit when it gets blocked.

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As I said in my initial post, GR does not just go out into combat on its own. A deck that would support GR would use cards that are traditionally card disadvantage (Rancor, Berserk, Riding the Dilu Horse, etc) to allow its unkillable monster to win.

This is the key with GR. He allows you to use good cards like those mentioned above that normally are not used in Legacy because of the "Swords in response" problem. As to blockers, Legacy has never been light on good removal spells that could easily be used alongside the Elemental to protect him from the big bad New Horizons crowd.

-ktkenshinx-

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

As I said in my initial post, GR does not just go out into combat on its own. A deck that would support GR would use cards that are traditionally card disadvantage (Rancor, Berserk, Riding the Dilu Horse, etc) to allow its unkillable monster to win.

This is the key with GR. He allows you to use good cards like those mentioned above that normally are not used in Legacy because of the "Swords in response" problem. As to blockers, Legacy has never been light on good removal spells that could easily be used alongside the Elemental to protect him from the big bad New Horizons crowd.

-ktkenshinx-

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You're also missing something, which is that seven-mana creatures in Legacy are never actually cast; they are always cheated into play. Furthermore, those creatures don't require other cards to make them good because they have evasion built-in - see: Iona, Inkwell Leviathan, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, etc. This guy sucks as a Reanimator target because he has no evasion and a form of shroud that's worse than Iona's form of "shroud", and there are no other decks in Legacy remotely interested in getting to seven mana. I mean, yeah, Lands, but Lands would rather get to thirteen mana and use Mindslaver and Academy Ruins to actually win the game.

You're trying too hard to make a Limited bomb actually bomby outside of Limited.

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

As I said in my initial post, GR does not just go out into combat on its own. A deck that would support GR would use cards that are traditionally card disadvantage (Rancor, Berserk, Riding the Dilu Horse, etc) to allow its unkillable monster to win.

This is the key with GR. He allows you to use good cards like those mentioned above that normally are not used in Legacy because of the "Swords in response" problem. As to blockers, Legacy has never been light on good removal spells that could easily be used alongside the Elemental to protect him from the big bad New Horizons crowd.

-ktkenshinx-

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So to make your seven mana creature good, you need another card? And you call these cards, "good cards" when they are played in fringe decks or once in a great while. Come on dude.

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

As I said in my initial post, GR does not just go out into combat on its own. A deck that would support GR would use cards that are traditionally card disadvantage (Rancor, Berserk, Riding the Dilu Horse, etc) to allow its unkillable monster to win.

This is the key with GR. He allows you to use good cards like those mentioned above that normally are not used in Legacy because of the "Swords in response" problem. As to blockers, Legacy has never been light on good removal spells that could easily be used alongside the Elemental to protect him from the big bad New Horizons crowd.

-ktkenshinx-

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If you need to run pump cards to make the bomb even slightly useful why wouldn't you just use duress cards to "protect" a better bomb creature who actually has evasion and doesn't die to nacatl Kird Ape? Added bonus you wouldn't scoop as hard to combo.

Gigapede is strictly better than Gaea's Revenge for all intents and purposes.

Let's move on.

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Originally Posted by Barook

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1277697981

I misread it at first and thought it would only generate one token per trigger instead of two. 10+ power for 6 mana doesn't seem that bad, especially with Rituals. But good enough for Legacy? :eyebrow:

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Isn't this card fantastic at marrying art and text? Zombies falling out of the dude's gut.......

It's also decent in extended and standard, being a ten power for 6 that make 4 power each turn if it live. Broodmate saw play, this is arguably better. Not cutting it in Legacy at 6, but that's to be expected.

Grave Titan would have been perfect if it had the flavor of summoning devils like the demons in Nethack.

Edit: Just saw the new slime, which has plenty of combo potential and the same cost than Saproling Burst.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Gigapede is strictly better than Gaea's Revenge for all intents and purposes.

Let's move on.

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hahaha, I'm reminded of that kid who wrote a tournament report and kept saying "For all intense purposes"


I too love the way the function of Grave Titan matches the art. Unlike the FNM Ghostly Prison. (Paper swords > Minotaur?)

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...67f8guhbsr.jpg

Sick!

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Originally Posted by DuxDucis

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...67f8guhbsr.jpg

Sick!

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I mean whats it good in? Combo? I mean why not play Desperate Ritual?

EDIT: I think the lich looks cooler...

Three new cards today by my reckoning. Three new Legacy potentials (and not in the same way that I still believe Gaea's Revenge is); everyone can get on board with these bad boys.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...67f8guhbsr.jpg

Belcher immediately comes to mind; it could definitely use extra Desperate Rituals to increase redundancy. It also might open up a bunch of additional storm combo decks (Dragonstorm of Extended days of glory comes to mind).

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...yf6rytsdfa.png

This one I'm way more excited about, despite the vulnerability of artifacts to Krosan Grip in this format. But that said, 3 mana for a 5/5 Indestructible is a serious bargain. He takes an ugly dump on Merfolk and Goblins in game 1, and the play Turn 1: Pithing Needle, Qasali Pridemage - Turn 2: DRit, Thoughtseize/Duress, Lich is a scary prospect against Zoo. This guy would definitely need his own deck to be played, as no deck really fits this current strategy, but the bargain level here is amazing.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...1m54xmn_EN.jpg

Here's another bargain, but I am not entirely sold on him. The question here is simple; why is this better than Delraich, which sees absolutely no play in Legacy? The answer is also simple: it might not be. Zoo and Goblins can seriously abuse the a) lack of blockers and b) 6 life loss. Getting this guy countered is also an ugly prospect. Of course, if he resolves he's going to cause a lot of pain, but I am not sure that it's the best card for this format. Path and Swords certainly create a major tempo blowout if targeting the Demon, but a 9/9 Flying Trample is a major beatstick. Overall, however, I think the risks may not be worth the potential benefits.

Phylactery Lich and Pyretic Ritual, however, are different stories. The latter WILL see play, whether just in Belcher or in other storm decks (Red Stax is unlikely, although it will be suggested; does such a deck really need 8 Desperate Rituals when some builds don't even use 1?). Lich is a bit of a sleeper, but I really love him. I will restate my case for the Lich:

1) Pithing Needle (Qasali Pridemage), Phylactery Lich is a major roadblock for Zoo. Their only answer is to Path it, and given that you are playing black, you could easily Duress/Thoughtseize it away.
2) Merfolk and Goblins have no game 1 answers to this guy, unless they Stifle the enter the battlefield trigger.
3) He makes attacks completely unfavorable for virtually every aggro deck in the metagame. Even against New Horizons, the paradigm of hyper efficient creatures, Lich kills Goyf, chumps Knight, and soaks Terravore.
4) Multiple Lich's are unfair; the counters stick around.

All in all I think that Lich is an awesome card worth consideration. At 3 mana it fits beautifully inside the curve, and the synergy with Pithing Needle is excellent. Same goes for Trinisphere and Chalice of the Void.

-ktkenshinx-

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...yf6rytsdfa.png

This one I'm way more excited about, despite the vulnerability of artifacts to Krosan Grip in this format. But that said, 3 mana for a 5/5 Indestructible is a serious bargain. He takes an ugly dump on Merfolk and Goblins in game 1, and the play Turn 1: Pithing Needle, Qasali Pridemage - Turn 2: DRit, Thoughtseize/Duress, Lich is a scary prospect against Zoo. This guy would definitely need his own deck to be played, as no deck really fits this current strategy, but the bargain level here is amazing.

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I'll be playing him in an SI man plan immediately. He's a baller. Might he make black aggro playable again? Except it would run artifact acceleration or something. Looks sick already. I'll take 4.

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

2) Merfolk and Goblins have no game 1 answers to this guy, unless they Stifle the enter the battlefield trigger.

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It's not a trigger. It's a replacement effect.

So I guess Belcher cuts manamorphose and street wraith for Pyritual and Monolith? Or did monolith's 1 "sure" spot just disappear?

The ritual doesn't allow you to save mana and the deck has plenty of red mana already. You'll likely see more monolith than this new ritual. Its the worst red ritual of the few red has. Also, I think that Welder will be become more popular post-board in the Monolith builds, having extra artifacts to get that Belcher into play through countermagic.

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Originally Posted by ktkenshinx

KotR, Goyf, Terravore, and the other hyper-efficient beaters of New Horizons do not have these strengths.

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There are no other beaters in NH.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Or did monolith's 1 "sure" spot just disappear?

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Yep.