[B&R] Mystical Tutor banned / Illusionary Mask and Grim Monolith unbanned

Glad I had just bought some Reveilark's before this. Extended is pretty much going to consist of Reveilark and Faeries.

Nice to finally see monolith come off, though we won't see any tournament finishes with that old thing in the list anytime soon. I like it since I used to have a ton of fun decks using it. I'm sure MUD will try to make a slight comeback though. The Voltaic key thing isn't that horrid.

Mask? Really?

Mystical - eh, I guess we all knew in our hearts it was coming eventually. This format will end up like a neutered Vintage eventually. It doesn't cripple Tendrils at all, it just makes ANT not as good. Not a real big deal actually. People just won't have the easy mode of Saito's version now. Play Burning Wish, it's not that bad. Personal Tutor if you're just that desperate for that effect. I figure we'll end up going with neither of those. There's plenty of things that were hungering for a spot.

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Originally Posted by Maveric78f

This was my point. Feel free to disagree.

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I fail to see how knocking out an entire archetype of decks (Combo) leads to a wider spectrum?
Clearly, removing Combo makes Aggro decks stronger but that just means more people will play Zoo, it doesn't make any currently unplayable Aggro decks playable. Consequently Merfolk is going to fall in popularity somewhat.
I'd be interested to hear what decks are now viable that weren't before?

We may start to see a rise in dedicated board control as a result of an increase in aggro decks as a result of a decrease in combo. Zoo is really fast though, and dedicated control gunning for it still won't have lopsided matchups (Qasali Pridemage negates many previously powerful control strategies).



peace,
4eak

What I really don't understand is why the hell they banned mystical tutor in the first place. Seriously I consider brainstorm more meta game shifting then mystical tutor :confused: If they wanted to slow combo down they should have ban hammered LED. Besides I think reanimator is getting too much love from the community. As for the unbannings I see them as a total non event, kinda like if they took land tax off nobody would care.

On the one hand...

I'm both upset that Wizards basically said they care more about Extended than Legacy and also think it's laughable that Wizards thinks they can make Extended MORE popular by having it have FEWER sets. I don't understand their reasoning.

They basically made Extended into a standard plus. Anyone that really wants to play with the absolute newest cards and have a really dynamic format would choose standard, not extended.

And everyone that wants to use their cards, even if they just started playing a few years ago, now has no choice but to play Legacy. This is a good thing for legacy :)


On the other hand...

I really think Wizards did a good thing here, both regarding the unbannings of Monolith and Mask, and the banning of Mystical. I know a lot of people are pissed about Mystical Tutor getting banned. But I think it was ultimately a smart decision.

Mystical Tutor was still at the end of the day a 1cc Tutor, one that was almost strictly superior to Vampiric Tutor for a number of combo decks.

This wasn't just about slowing down ANT imo. But that too is a valid reason.

Ad-Nauseum Tendrils was NOT a fun deck to play against. Having a deck like that be the best deck in the format wasn't healthy imo.

Also, Reanimator despite being not all that powerful, is very loathed by many legacy players as well. Iona is really very annoying. And Mystical Tutor fueled many many second turn Ionas. So it's probably better for the format to slow down the turn in which Iona comes into play.

Quoting part of a dutch post from some other forum:
"I think it's clever that the DCI managed to see that ANT is by the far the strongest deck in the format. Due to the lack of good pilots it has produced underwhelming results (mainly in the USA)."

I agree, it was too strong, and it completely dominated the top tables over here. Combo is still viable without Mystical, just a bit less consistent.
I guess Lands might be a decent deck to play now.

My main concern is them possibly giving up on legacy in the future due to this new format. Let's hope we don't walk the way of Vintage..

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Originally Posted by MMogg

It seems a lot of people can't understand some of the anger being expressed by some of the ANT players. It's not simply that they lose a key piece of their combo, I think it's more the fact that the deck (and Reanimator) are not dominating enough to warrant it. The banning comes across as capricious, and that sentiment is compounded by the DCI's complete lack of explanation. I think that is the source of the anger issues. Why should we have to look for another piece to replace Mystical Tutor? I thought the whole premise of Legacy and eternal formats was to play with the best cards ever printed.

Could you imagine Force of Will being banned and the ANT players saying, "oh shut up, just use Foil or Thwart"?

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Thanks dude, thanks. thanks. thanks. God bless you. Finally someone who understands.
I know that Storm Combo is not dead and will go on to kick ass. My reaction was exagerated, but try to wake up and discover they have nerfed one of the centerpieces of your deck and nobody ever suspected, even for a single second, that they could have hit Mystical Tutor.
To me, there were other things more worth of being banned (sensei's divining top, which is a card i play too as a 4-ofs, just not make all the idiots in here say "eww i know you hate fucking CBtop").

Try to wake up and get your tarmogayfs banned. I bet half the topics of this forum would degenerate into pure flame.

Those changes are fascinating. They basically all scream "play midrange and board control". I am also pretty sure Combo will have no problem coming on top again soon, but we'll see.

I can start playing my wildfire deck again, too bad it will still suck, but whatever, i love it.

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Originally Posted by Leftconsin

Mystical had nothing going for it. It is blue, WotC hates blue. It is played in combo, WotC hates combo. It is a 1 mana tutor, WotC hates cheap tutors.

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Wisdom lies here.

That's the 'why.' Here's the 'wtf?'

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Originally Posted by neon_havoc

Is anyone else a fan of this?

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I completely agree that it seems arbitrary to ban an enabling spell, and that it bodes ill for future bans and the stability of Legacy. Also, the language in the OP from WotC is ...chilling & greedy-sounding.

But, a partial nerf of the fastest combo decks SHOULD provide more room for more decks to enter tournaments and not get blown out. As a player of fringe low-tier decks, I selfishly like this change.

In all honesty, with Reanimator, what exactly does Mystical Tutor accomplish that Personal Tutor does not? It gets Entomb or, I guess Force of Will. This in no way kills the deck.

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Originally Posted by Finn

In all honesty, with Reanimator, what exactly does Mystical Tutor accomplish that Personal Tutor does not? It gets Entomb or, I guess Force of Will. This in no way kills the deck.

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You should buy them all up!

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Originally Posted by Finn

In all honesty, with Reanimator, what exactly does Mystical Tutor accomplish that Personal Tutor does not? It gets Entomb or, I guess Force of Will. This in no way kills the deck.

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E. Truth, Coffin Purge,Brainstorm... oh you know 3/4ths of the SB is all and that whole EOT thing.

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Originally Posted by menace13

E. Truth, Coffin Purge,Brainstorm... oh you know 3/4ths of the SB is all and that whole EOT thing.

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+1

and btw, it is much easier to duress personnal than mtutor ...

I am quite happy to see sword of the meek and hypergenesis get banned in extended but sad to see wizards cutting extended into practically nothing. Hope this works out. Also, LOL at mystical tutor being banned. You now need to play your tutors at sorcery speed. I hope grim monolith can push stax back into a tier 1 deck.

Here is WotC's 5 Step Plan for Success

1) Allow a rumor to begin about a MMQ+ "OverExtended"/"MiniLegacy" format.
2) Ask SCG to begin overpricing certain niche Legacy staples while slowing increasing price on non-niche Legacy staples. Add more turmoil with certain bannings. This creates disgruntled Legacy players.
3) Cut Extended down from 7 years worth of sets to 4 years with of sets. This creates disgruntled Extended players.
4) Announce a new sanctioned format with PT seasons that consists of all cards from Mercadian Masques forward. This draws in the disgruntled Legacy and Extended players.
5) Profit!!!

Dear Friends,

I understand your feelings and your pain. It reminds me the day when Morphling became catwoman.

Even if I don't play combo (I'm too poor), I see how unfair WotC is.

Sorry for my bad english that makes you guess I'm a five-years-old kid.

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Originally Posted by Nizmox

I fail to see how knocking out an entire archetype of decks (Combo) leads to a wider spectrum?
Clearly, removing Combo makes Aggro decks stronger but that just means more people will play Zoo, it doesn't make any currently unplayable Aggro decks playable. Consequently Merfolk is going to fall in popularity somewhat.
I'd be interested to hear what decks are now viable that weren't before?

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Combo is not dead. You still have Dream Halls, Belcher and whatever else that will take advantage of the U-deck reduction. I think that AN and Doomsday (or tendrils) are cards that are too strong. Banning Mystical instead of those is not a bad idea since it shuts also reanimator which is not really interactive and dooming monocolor decks (My guess is that Chalice aggro decks are dead because of reanimator).

Probably non-U-based control decks.
Lands.dec, Rock control and Stax (even if I think the coming metagame won't be favorable neither with deed being a metagame owner and probably overplayed) in first line.

While I knew that something had to be made to weaken Reanimator, I didn't see this particular banning coming. I think it's a wise move that only happens to hurt ANT and Reanimator because these are the combo decks right now, but that isn't done with the purpose of weaken those specific decks.

I also guess they should have banned other cards, but wizards is known for avoiding the real culcripts and going after the consistency enablers.

North America for whatever reason, may not be an the best way to gauge a deck's strengths.

All over europe, combo decks like ANT and Doomsday run wild and are played and top 8 far more frequently than here.

Even here, many people admit that ANT is probably the best deck in the format but is simply too difficult to play properly, especially through several rounds of a large tournament, and that is the main reason it doesn't top 8 even more frequently than it already does.

A deck like Zoo is fairly easy to play, even people new to legacy can learn to play it moderately well, isn't nearly as exhausting to play well through several rounds of a tourney and that combined with it's powerlevel probably has some bearing in how it performs so well.

As for Reanimator. I play it, regularly. I DON'T think it's over powered. I DO think its frustrating for opponents who can't deal with a turn two Iona (which Mystical Tutor helps makes possible), but just about any competitive deck in legacy can defeat Reanimator it if is prepared or atleast sideboard Leylines, Fairie Macabre, Crypts, Relics or any number of other cards.

However despite being a Reanimator player, I'm not pissed about the banning. I think it helps make nonblue decks and even monocolored decks slightly more viable in legacy, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Reanimator is not going to die as a result of the banning of Mystical Tutor. It will have to innovate, possibly splash green or simply up the discard count and rely on it's discard suite and countermagic, and use this freed up space to play more disruption and anti-hate, and long term cards like Intuition, but it will still be more competitive than most decks in the Established Forum. I pretty much guarantee it.

Combo isn't going anywhere either. ANT will still be playable, just not a DTB. Or TES will possibly take up the role that ANT played in the format and graveyard hate will be more potent than ever. Either way, combo isn't going anywhere. I don't think all this "the sky is falling" rhetoric is justified.

Exit ANT & Reanimator, no more tutoring for bounce to get rid of that chalice or leyline... welcome back first turn Trinispheres?