Like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots
http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/Mer...e_Squadron.jpg
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Like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots
http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/Mer...e_Squadron.jpg
Lol, it's a Ship. WHY?
Well, for Zoo, in most of it's builds, some non-core cards that seems to be effective (mono-red):
Mogg War Marshal (chumpblocking is awsome)
Gempalm Incinerator
Lightning Bolt (R for 3, good enough :D)
Price of Progress (Zoo has a very fragile manabase, anti-synergy with Wasteland)
Goblin Chieftain (as a spot removal magnet)
Pyrokinesis (hmm, this kills a lot of things)
Chalice of the Void (If they run less than 3 Pridemages)
Stingscourger (bounce + chumpblock)
Warren Instigator (spot removal magnet + double trigger + synergy with Chieftain)
Skirk Prospector (synergy with everything, lol)
Lightning Crafter (hmm, he has a decent body, works as removal and Champion tricks with Ringleader/Matron, tho he's another spot removal magnet)
Splashes:
-Black:
Perish (a really Fat Bomb against Zoo)
Nature's Ruin (a less Fat Bomb against Zoo, but still huge)
Wort, Boggart Auntie (as spot removal magnet + synergy with gempalms/WW)
Warren Weirding (not so useful, but works as an extra removal)
-Green:
Krosan Grip (Jitte, Swords, Cannonist...)
Lead the Stampede (weak, but works as ringleader 5-8)
-White:
Retribution of the Meek (works against Knights and Goyfs, weak slot tho)
Swords to Plowshares (the best spot removal ever printed, nuf said)
Disenchant (Jitte, Swords, Cannonist...)
Path to Exile (weak, anti-synergy with Wasteland/Rishadan Port)
Condemn (weak, but works as pseudo-removal)
Crib Swap (fetchable, but mana-heavy and tribal [feeds Goyf])
Weak cards maindeck:
Goblin Piledriver (usually taken out in 2~3 pieces)
Siege-Gang Commander (mana heavy and Lackey stands no chance to connect against Zoo [they have like 30 cards to stop it, lol], I usually board out 1 piece)
Goblin Sharpshooter (can't do his work against Zoo)
That's all I can remember for now.
It is changed to Goblin in the oracle text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots
Mono red goblins is my personal favorite anyways, though I play R/g.Quote:
A big one for me is this, how can we best combat zoo? Ideally from a conversation stand point on mono red, as it is the most accessible archetype, splashes are mostly personal choice, and frankly, its all I have access to right now.
Mogg War Marshal. I run 4. Stingsourger too. Both are great for stalling until goblins can establish board position and generating and/or denying tempo.Quote:
What are the popular card choices here?
The following is from personal experience. It's not official, but it's how I play the matchup.Quote:
What are good strategies to combat better creatures and burn than we have?
- You are the control deck.
- Hands with Vials are typically better than hands with Lackey, as Lackey will almost never connect. Vial may get Pridemage'd, but that's a 3 mana solution to our 1.
- Get rid of Lavamancers ASAP.
- If you have to block a creature and you have MWM out, block with MWM and not the token so you can avoid paying the Echo cost. You can also double block, say, a Wild Nactl with MWM and the token, and Incinerator the cat after damage step to kill it. Just be wary of removal on your goblin(s) in response to Incinerator.
- Stingscourger can be played on your turn (or Vial'd in on an opponent's turn) to bounce a Goyf and block a Cat. In that sense, it can deny mana as the creature will have to be recasted. Also, any x/3 creature blocking it will only need to be assigned 1 more damage to kill it. Pyrokinesis anyone? :wink:
- Path to Exile isn't too bad. Sure it occasionally negates our MWM's graveyard trigger, but it also gives us a land which helps us get to the late game faster which is when Zoo typically gets overwhelmed by goblins.
- Skirk Prospector is tech against Jitte if you don't have Goblin Tinkerer.
- I run 24 lands so I'm not so dependent on Vial if it should get destroyed. But if it doesn't, 3 charge counters is where you want it at. If you get lucky and get two Vials out, leave one at 2 counters for battle shenanigans and the other at 3 for free Matrons and Warchiefs. Never go up to 4 counters unless you really have too. Nothing better than hardcasting a Ringleader then Vialing in more free Matrons and MWMs!Quote:
How can we best abuse our makeshift draw engines and mana denial and vial acceleration?
- I usually Matron into Stingscourger or MWM to stall more until I have enough lands to hardcast Ringleader.
- Wasteland rocks. Always Waste their red source. Double points if you take out a white source with it. Another thing you can do is wait until they've exhausted all their fetches. If they didn't fetch a basic mountain, go to town on their Plateaus and Taigas. If they manage to stabilize at 1 red source, at that point you can start baiting burn spells by Porting that land.
OUT all Piledrivers. If I need more room, I also board out 1 Gempalm (I run 4 MD) and maybe 1 Lackey as well.Quote:
Sideboard strategies?
IN 3-4 Pyrokinesis. Remember after damage tricks. Just don't deplete your hand too quickly.
If they run Jitte, artifact destruction (Tinkerer) can help. Pithing Needle also works to some degree as well. If they Pridemage your Needle, at least your Vials are safe.
In this case you can use incinerator after he assigned the attackers (Wild Nacatl) and before blockers. This way you will know with how much creatures you should block.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
I.E. the Nacatl took 2 damage from Incinerator, then you should block with only the MWM. He has the option to remove the MWM (=card disadvantage for him) or let the Nacatl die.
Just my 2 cents.
I would never board out SGC vs. Zoo. You will get to the midgame, or you will lose. During that time, he will either stabilize your board position or put you in a winning one.
Why not board out lackey (As opposed to piledriver) vs. zoo? If he never hits why bother to leave him in games 2 & 3?
Piledriver can still swing pretty with some hefty damage and can make Zoo play more defensively, but lackey doesn't seem up to snuff vs. zoo and seems a much more logical choice to board out.
Okay, this discussion has been done before. You want to keep Lackey in when playing against Zoo. He forces them to play defensively and is a huge magnet for removal. Oh, and there's the off chance you go t1 Lackey, he goes t1 dude, and then you go ahead and Sting his dude, and put something scary into play. I'd keep in a single Piledriver (to tutor up with Matron) but he's not as strong and, on top of it all, an offensive creature in a MU you want to play defensively.
Obviously they are talking about removing lackeys on the draw... On the draw they are at best underwhelming, on the play I think they're kind of meh too...
How is it obvious? When was it ever hinted that they were on the draw? Zoo is a fairly even MU, pre-board, for most colors. It could swing either way.
For this discussion, you should see the previous thread - if someone could help me remember the page range for the discussion, I'd be much obliged.
This is truth, and has been discussed many times before. Even if they Bolt it turn 1, they had their 1cc removal target our 1cc creature, instead of a 2-3cc creature. That actually adds up to the investiments we spend on creatures on the MU. If they do not kill it, they'll aways hold back 1-2 creatures to block, because if he connects, it can be game-changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Who's representing Goblins at Edison tomorrow? I want to see a goblin win the whole thing. My advice- pack Chalice, Perish, and Pulverize. Between those 3 cards you'll get a leg up on a huge portion of the field.
QFT. You want something to do turn one against Zoo so Lackeys stay in. It also makes Bolt, Sting really strong and will give your opponent pause as to whether they want to start beating down.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Hey guys,
I attended a tournament yesterday - here is my report. As always I'll give you a report of the matches I lost (cause everyone knows how and why we win - therefore it's not helpful to report those matches).
I ended up 5th-8th after 4 rounds of swiss and after losing Round 1 of the top-8.
Round 1: TES 2-0
Round 2: Rgb Goblins 1-2
Round 3: Zoo 2-0
Round 4: Mono R Goblins 2-0
T8: Zenith Enchantress feat Emrakul 0-2
Decklist:
//Lands [22]
6 Wasteland / Ports
7 R-Fetches
3 Plateau
6 Mountain
//Core [25]
-1 Piledriver
//Others [13]
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
//Sideboard [15]
4 Chalice otV
2 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pyrokinesis, 1 Sharpshooter
2 Disenchant, 1 Serenity, 1 Goblin Tinkerer
Round 2 - Rgb Goblins
Game 1: I go first, I win thanks to double Lackey and Chieftain
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis, 1 Sharpshooter
OUT: 3 Piledriver, 1 Instigator
Game 2: He keeps his 7 cards while I mull down to 4 cards without any land. He goes first with Vial. After 4 rounds my board is still empty (exept for 1 Rishadan Port) while my opponent has Warchief and 2 Piledrivers in play. He shows me Lightning Bolt, Kinesis and Gempalm from hand - I concede.
Game 3: Both of us take mulligan to 6 and go first with Vial. I have a Piledriver out of my Vial to block his Lackey. He keeps on drawing lands while I have only 1 Mountain left. In his round he brngs in Warchief via Vial, plays 2 Piledrivers from hand and attacks with all of them. That's when I started making mistakes. My board was: Vial @ 3 and a singleton Mountain. My hand: 2 Warchief, Matron, Ringleader, Warren Instigator. I tapped my Vial to bring in Matron fetching Chieftain(FAIL#1). I block 1 Piledriver and go down to 13. In my next turn I draw a land from top. Vial brings in Chieftain, I play WI from hand and attack with both of them (FAIL#2). WI connects into Ringleader into Ringleader (leaving me with 2 bockers). On his turn my opp plays Ringleader via Vial, Bolts my Ringleader and has a Gempalm for the other.
FAIL#1: I should have fetched SGC
FAIL#2: I shouldn't have attacked with Chieftain
(FAIL #3: The first Vial activation should bring in a Warchief to trade with one of his Piledrivers)
Conclusion: NEVER take the mirror lighty! Keep on counting damage and cards in hands all the time! don't be to hasty with attacking!
T8: Green Sun's Enchantress feat Emrakul
Game 1: I know what I'm up against, take mulligan to 5 and go first with Vial. I manage to deal 3 damage to his lifepoints before he locks me and kills me with Emrakul.
IN: 2 Disenchant, 1 Serenity, 4 Chalice of the Void
OUR: 3 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Stingscourger (FAIL#4), 3 Gempalm Incinerator
Game 2: I mull down to 6 keeping the following hand: Disenchant, Serenity, Piledriver, Warchief, Vial, Mountain. I play Vial on turn 1 and find a second land (Rishadan Port) on turn 7 to play CHalice of the Void. That's actually all I could do. Oblivion Ring eats my Vial, Confinements lock me. I watch my opponent tap Serras Sanctum to produce 16 mana....
FAIL#4: Aether Vial is way to slow in this MU - I should have boarded AV instead of Stingscourger (my only sollution to Emma) and Gempalm (both of which have feet, claws and teeth). Unfortunately I wasn't able to play Serenity. On the other hand this wouldn't really have changed anything because of Oblivion Ring.
Patriarchs Bidding.
Best card against zoo.
Better luck next time GoboLord...
Against Enchantress, Green splash is much better, KGrips and Back to Nature are just bombs against them. Serenity is weak because it can be removed before you reach your upkeep.
In the mirror matchup, shit happens... I always find myself in trouble to fetch what I need with Matron too. Another thing I'd like to point out is that your deck has too many RR costs (4 warchiefs, 3 WI, 3 chiefs). I think 23 lands (another mountain or plateau) should make the deck lighter. Both games you lost, you were short on lands.
Just a question: Did the Enchantress guy use Green Sun's Zenith to find Emrakul or he was just hardcasted via pumped lands/sanctuml? He doesn't seem to be a green creature.
...and probably the worst card against almost everything else, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuad
Against which deck do you side it in (other than Zoo)?
I side it in against control all the time.
Was playing against Deedstill and he had countered/killed a ton of my goblins, was just digging for his win con. Then he Tsabo's Decree'd me. I resolved a Patriarchs Bidding next turn and swung with almost my entire library of goblins.
I wouldn't take out Vials either. Having it T1 is nice to be able to Port them. They use those enchant lands to ramp, so is quite easy to do some damage with 1-2 Ports out.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
@FAIL#1, I'd probably have fetched Gempalm (I figure you had mana open when he attacked). Kill one of his dudes, block another, take only 2 dmg, and draw a card.
This is the kind of thought that doesn't help us with anything. He made mistakes in the match. Just thinking "oh, shit happens", actually makes him a worse player. Shit doesn't JUST happen. We make it, by making lousy choices. And we need to analyze why we made them, so we don't make it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
It was not a thought, it was just a comment. He was kind of manascrewed in both matchups, that's not his fault. But added to his mistakes, the game was lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX