[Budget Decks] -- My Attempts

@ DragoFireheart

I've not been able to build a mono green deck with VV that I think is worthwhile. I'll keep trying. That's disappointing, I realize, but I'd rather suggest decklists in which I have some confidence. So far, I've not found something which meets that standard.

I've tried a few approaches so far: Chalice Stompy, Madness, Elves. I'm not convinced by any of these. If anyone else has some suggestions, that would be great.


@ Iron Buddha

I have no budget suggestions for your manabase.



peace,
4eak

For DragoFireheart

This might work

18 Forest
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Memnite
4 Vengevine
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Signal Pest
1 Taunting Elf
1 Viridian Zealot
3 Garruk Wildspeaker

There's really zero protection / disruption in green so you really have to read then and get a sense for when you can make your plays, but it's a fun deck. Fauna shaman is a big bomb and signal pest could be swapped for a second taunting elf depending on your play style. (also big)

Hey guys!

I just wanted to post my (very budget) Sligh list, since this is a total petdeck to me. I don't play any regular events or something, i just want to build a legacy deck that i could bring to a small tournament and some fun with. Would be nice to not get raped every single game, but i'm not looking for T1 decks.

I picked sligh because
- this archetype seems to be played since 1999 and the deck is still played (i read an article about some french guy winning a huge event that time with sligh... i was about 12 that time, but somehow i kept this article in ming until today)
- it was the first deck i built for myself ( i didn't build it on purpose, i just threw a bunch of red cards together to test my fattys-deck. That actually was pre '99 as far as i remember)
- the playstyle just fits for me

That's my list atm:

Manabase:
20x Mountain

Creatures:
4x Jackal Pup
4x Ball Lightning
4x Kiln Fiend
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Grim Lavamancer

Spells:
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Chain Lightning (looking for Nr.4 already...)
4x Fireblast
4x Rift Bolt
4x Price Of Progress


Sideboard:
... i have no idea...

What else do i have:
4x Shattering Spree
Xx Red Elemental Blast
4x Reckless Abandon
...


Yeah, that's it...

I would appreciate it if someone could give me some tips to improve the deck. I'd like to keep it monocolored, since i don't have the money for duals. I'm thinking about getting some fetchlands to support Lavamancer, but it might take a while to get a playset together.

Greez and thanks in advance,
Funkbrother

Goblin Guide should probably get in over pup. They're pretty cheap. $3-4 bucks tops. List looks pretty straight forward, though. Fetches would be nice when you get them. Maybe some Magma Jets? Card selection is groovy.

@ John Cox

That list is pretty close to what I came up with. It doesn't seem good enough. Elves is simply a better mono green aggro/combo deck.


@ Funkbrother

The differences between our decklists:

Yours:
4x Jackal Pup
4x Ball Lightning
4x Kiln Fiend

Mine:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Magma Jet
4 Lava Spike

Creature-heavy versions of the deck should use burn as removal far more often (see Zoo) than creature-light versions of sligh. Fireblast and PoP, in some sense, are bad cards for creature heavy versions of Sligh. You want to play burn cards which allow you to win early board-attrition battles and get to the redline with your creatures (not with your burn). I don't agree with going creature heavy until you start splashing green (and white), where creature efficiency is so profound that they become worth using.

There are some creatures worth using, but not many. The three you have above (which I don't) are weak in my view. Goblin Guide is either the 1st or 2nd best creature available to this deck (depending on how we should value Grim Lavamancer) - get a set, you'll love them, that Haste and 2-toughness matters.

As for the remaining 8 creature vs. 8 burn difference, I think burn is better, as burn synergizes with Fireblast and PoP (which are the bread-winners of this archetype). This burn doesn't need to be able to target creatures like it does in creature-heavy versions of Sligh. Lava Spike is great, and Magma Jet is insanely good when used correctly (the card is surprisingly easy to misuse).

I suggest this sideboard:

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Volcanic Fallout =)
SB: 4 Smash to Smithereens (use this, not SSpree -- it is amazing)
SB: 4 Relic of Progenitus (necessary evil, I'm afraid - part of the cost of playing Legacy)
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast

Searing Blaze is also a great SB card. I just don't have room for it.



peace,
4eak

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4eak

Does it have to be mono green? Are you willing to splash black? And, if so, do you already have a manabase to work with? Have any other expensive cards (Liliana of the Veil, for example) to work with? What price ceiling are we looking at here?


peace
4eak

---

Hey 4eak,

I recently won a playset of Green Sun's Zenith and Fauna Shaman. Would those cards be good in a B/G Vengevine Madness?

Also, do you have a sample budget list? I'm talking about dirt cheap no duals (Fetchlands are fine).

Vengevine decks need to be pretty aggressive and combo oriented. I think they are improved by dropping most, if not all, the Madness mechanic cards. Here's a decklist (which may not be budget) that I think is decent:

// Lands - 20
4 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

// Mana & Glue - 8
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elves of Deep Shadow

// Recursion - 9
4 Vengevine
3 Bloodghast
1 Shriekmaw
1 Genesis

// Outlets - 16
4 Putrid Imp
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Buried Alive
4 Liliana of the Veil

// Discard - 7
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize (perhaps Hymn or IoK)

You could modify it for GSZ and Fauna. GSZ is the better of the two, imho. I think Fauna Shaman is a bit slow, but with a good enough toolbox, it seems reasonable.


peace,
4eak

I'm working on a Fauna Shaman/Vengevine deck in legacy for a budget/casual deck as well.

Here is my rough beginning list:

4x Fauna Shaman
4x Vengevine
3x Bloodghast
4x Renegade Doppelganger
4x Elves of Deep Shadow
4x Basking Rootwalla
3x Merfolk Looter
1x Shriekmaw
1x Wonder
1x Scryb Ranger
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Buried Alive
2x Dread Return
21x lands


It's all gas, with only 10 non-creature enablers. I wonder if Stinkweed Imp would be better than Merfolk Looter. I like the extra draw of Looter, but if I get Imp into the yard, Looter becomes pretty damn awesome.

You may be wondering at the inclusion of Dread Return without any big targets...well, I'm thinking Renegade Doppelgangers and Vengevines are enough to make it bomb-tastic enough. I particularly like playing a fetchland and getting multiple Bloodghasts back, flashback DR using the Ghasts, then cracking the fetch and getting the Ghasts back, too. It has made me feel that a reanimation package isn't really neccessary. I'm toying with it in the sideboard with the other 2 DR's and Iona, Bogarden Hellkite, and Angel of Despair, but maindeck I like going for broke with Buried Alive + Vengevine, and if I already did that, the 2nd BA gets Bloodghasts. I really like the one-shot of Scryb Ranger, allowing for some crazy shit with Fauna Shaman. Wonder is borrowed from madness lists as an evasive combat enabler.

My questions to this forum are these:

1) Is Boneyard Wurm worth testing in a list like this? It would be better in a drege-oriented build with Stinkweed Imps, but I can't help but think that it's a decent beatstick on it's own that helps this deck aggressively when the Vengevine plan isn't happening fast enough.

2) Wild Mongrel, Oona's Prowler, or Merfolk Looter seem to be the best discarding creatures for a deck like this (other than the obvious Fauna Shaman.) What one/mix is best? Mongrel grows, Prowler has evasion/disruption potential, and Looter can enable dredging like a champ.

Forbidden Alchemy is a well designed card. I love this card. Unfortunately, I don't think it is good enough in Legacy. Renegade Doppelganger and Merfolk Looter are just bad cards, unfortunately. Fauna Shaman is slow and probably unplayable in the format (but, damnit, I really want a deck to play it in).

Your deck also lacks control cards, which are dearly needed. This alone makes the deck unplayable.

Without control cards, honestly, this looks like a bad version of dredge. It isn't as good at getting cards into the graveyard, it isn't as fast, and it doesn't put as much into play. You can hard cast the cards, but it is simply too slow in the metagame. I think there are two paths of evolution, one is towards dredge and the other requires the addition of control elements, which should push this deck towards a BG aggro-control deck with VV to combo.

If you want to keep it mostly in its current form (which I can appreciate, as perhaps you just like it aesethically or for whatever reason), and I'll try to answer your question given that assumption.

1) Boneyard Wurm looks great in the deck. I'd want to cut down on my non-creatures as much as possible. Also, if you really need space, Basking Rootwalla can go down to 1 (2 at most) if you want.

2) Mongrel clearly belongs in the deck. It is aggressive, and doesn't suffer from summoning sickness to pitch. I also recommend Putrid Imp. I think both are better than Oona's Prowler, Looter, and Shaman.



peace,
4eak

Quote:

---

I'm working on a Fauna Shaman/Vengevine deck using the legacy cardpool for a budget/casual deck...

---

There, fixed. I realize that this thread is for genuine budget playable legacy decks, but you have me convinced that my deck is solidly in the casual camp. This is fine, that's where it belongs. With that in mind, here are my re-configured questions (if you don't mind me continuing the conversation here):

1) How many Boneyard Wurms to play, given I decide to play it? I'm running out of room...

2) I will be dropping Merfolk Looter for Wild Mongrel. How do I speed up the graveyard filling; in other words, is Wild Mongrel enough?

3) What, if any, dredge cards should be added so I can turbo-charge the graveyard?

Those are difficult questions to answer. I am wary of answering 'casual' questions because those who ask are usually seeking normative answers, but neglect to layout the normative standard or rubric from which to make claims/deductions. The normative standard(s) of casual is very poorly defined. I'm worried that I really should only give "hey this is cool" suggestions.

If you aren't going to have more disruption, then this deck is an aggro/combo deck (focusing more on combo, I believe). This is basically a bad version of Dredge (although, incidentally, Dredge does have disruption). The question is: how close to Dredge will you allow your casual deck evolve?

Here is a suggested build:

// Lands - 20
4 Cephalid Coliseum
16 Other Land

// Other - 6
4 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Basking Rootwalla
1 Boneyard Wurm

// Fill your Graveyard - 24
4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Buried Alive

// GY-Goodies - 10
1 Wonder
1 Genesis
1 Shriekmaw
4 Vengevine
3 Bloodghast

I think it is far cry from being the scary deck that is Dredge, but this list still echoes it obviously. You can see what I'm saying though, right? Even in an experiential vacuum, where we didn't know about Dredge or the competitive Legacy metagame, we would still continue to evolve this list towards dredge, and it would eventually shed the hallmark cards (I assume Fauna Shaman, Bloodghast, and VV).

Anyways, direct thoughts about the list:

• Fauna Shaman and Buried Alive allow you to run singletons with consistency. The 1-of's look great given that fact. You run Shriekmaw and Buried, do yourself the favor of playing Genesis (which is simply outstanding, also great with Boneyard Wurm).
• Stinkweed Imp is an improvement for this deck, and you should (the normative standard being: competitive) build around it. CC and CStudy are obviously amazing with the card, and I think this will supercharge your deck, but not 'too' much.
• I'm tempted to run a single Squee, which is not shabby with Fauna Shaman, Mongrel, PImp, CC, or Careful Study.

peace,
4eak

Thanks for the suggestions, and I agree 100%. Eventually if I wanted to make it competitive it would have to shed all of the pet cards for a stock dredge list, or at least a very similar list with Ichorid, etc.

Well, the whole point of my deck is to use Fauna Shaman/Vengevine/Renegade Doppelganger. It's just a fun deck, after all...and may become a modern competitive deck, depending on what I can get out of Dark Ascension for graveyard enablers. I realize now that this isn't the place for this discussion...I'm getting too far away from your premise of budget legacy decks.

Thanks for the notes, I will definately take them to heart. Sorry to sidetrack your thread... :rolleyes:

Where would I go to discuss a casual deck like this? Should I make my own thread?

We are in the casual forum. =)


peace,
4eak

I have a mono green deck with Shaman and Vv that I've been playing for a while. It is a Food Chain elf deck with Vv backup, and sides into an aggro build. My meta is far from underdeveloped and I have a winning record with it. Here's the list - I've been tweaking this thing for over six months, no joke.

12 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Food Chain
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Vengevine
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fierce Empath
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Brass Herald
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

SB: 4 Joraga Warcaller
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Vengevine
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 1 Viridian Shaman
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte

You side out 4 Food Chain, 4 Fierce Empath, and 3 fatties for 4 Warcaller, 4 Revoker, 1 Vv, and 2 Jitte. The Duplicant comes in as an answer to SnT >> Emrakul for when we need to leave the combo in.

It's an evolution of a list IBA posted a while ago, but that thread is pretty much dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4eak

We are in the casual forum. =)


peace,
4eak

---

Well hell, then here's my current list that I'm looking to get feedback on:

3x Bloodghast
4x Buried Alive
1x Dread Return
4x Putrid Imp
1x Shriekmaw
3x Stinkweed Imp
1x Wonder
2x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Renegade Doppelganger
1x Basking Rootwalla
4x Elves of Deep Shadow
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Vengevine
4x Wild Mongrel
20x Land

I dropped Scryb Ranger and 2 Forbidden Alchemy. SR seemed good with Fauna Shaman but realistically, I'd rather have more consistent ways to get good stuff into my graveyard. Basking Rootwalla is there simply for cheap the cheap double creature shot to set off Vines. I decided I wanted both Putrid and Stinkweed Imp, along with Wild Mongrel in the deck. It's all in on Doppelganger/Vengevine, which is fine because it's a casual deck. I feel a little odd not having a better toolbox to work with (only Shriekmaw, Rootwalla, and Wonder)

I'm still working on the Dredgevine casual list, but I'd like to bring up another budget legacy deck that *might* just be good enough for competitive play, at least on a local level. I saw a decklist on an MTGSalvation article highlighting budget legacy combo decks.

Mr. Safety's Version of Goblin Storm

Rituals = 15
4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Pyretic Ritual
4x Seething Song

Dig/Tutors/Info = 21
4x Brainstorm
4x Preordain
2x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Burning Wish
4x Manamorphose

Janky-win stuff = 6
3x Empty the Warrens
3x Goblin Bushwhacker

Protection = 3
3x Flusterstorm

Mana = 14
4x Lotus Petal
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Mountain
3x Island


I can easily build this for a paltry investment.

Pros:
1) It's resilient to Wasteland, the deck can function on basic lands just fine. Manamorphose filters nicely and all of the spells only require a single colored mana.
2) It has an incredibly fast goldfish that hovers in the turn 2-3 range with potential for turn 1 wins.
3) Flusterstorm is potent protection against anyone attempting Force of Will/countermagic against the combo.
4) It's cheap, but dollar for dollar packs a big punch.

Cons:
1) It's obviously less resilient than traditional storm decks (Solidarity, TES, ANT) with so little protection.
2) Mulligans will be rough, reallllly rough. Hymn to Tourach is already a tough card to fight against and can potentially = gg after even one mulligan.
3) Targeted discard is rough(see #2 above)

My question is: is this deck even remotely viable? Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I'm still working on the Dredgevine casual list, but I'd like to bring up another budget legacy deck that *might* just be good enough for competitive play, at least on a local level. I saw a decklist on an MTGSalvation article highlighting budget legacy combo decks.

Mr. Safety's Version of Goblin Storm

Rituals = 15
4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Pyretic Ritual
4x Seething Song

Dig/Tutors/Info = 21
4x Brainstorm
4x Preordain
2x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Burning Wish
4x Manamorphose

Janky-win stuff = 6
3x Empty the Warrens
3x Goblin Bushwhacker

Protection = 3
3x Flusterstorm

Mana = 14
4x Lotus Petal
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Mountain
3x Island


I can easily build this for a paltry investment.

Pros:
1) It's resilient to Wasteland, the deck can function on basic lands just fine. Manamorphose filters nicely and all of the spells only require a single colored mana.
2) It has an incredibly fast goldfish that hovers in the turn 2-3 range with potential for turn 1 wins.
3) Flusterstorm is potent protection against anyone attempting Force of Will/countermagic against the combo.
4) It's cheap, but dollar for dollar packs a big punch.

Cons:
1) It's obviously less resilient than traditional storm decks (Solidarity, TES, ANT) with so little protection.
2) Mulligans will be rough, reallllly rough. Hymn to Tourach is already a tough card to fight against and can potentially = gg after even one mulligan.
3) Targeted discard is rough(see #2 above)

My question is: is this deck even remotely viable? Thanks!

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Past in Flames isnt too expensive (I mean, if you have Flusterstorm and not something like Dispel, I imagine you can dish out some $$$ for PiT). Pyroblasts/Red Rlemental Blasts are not expensive and can work wonders.

Bushwacker IS really janky. I would take out two for Brain Freeze and Grapeshot. Remand is also a really cheap spell to just win if you can afford the mana cost.

I think U/R storm is a really cool concept (and really, really budget).

Consider the following changes:
-3 Goblin Bushwacker
-2 EtW (move one to wishboard)
-1 Flusterstorm
+2 Past in Flames (and probably one in your wishboard)
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Grapeshot (and one more in wishboard)

4eak, have you tested Dismember and Smother in monoblack?

And just to know, what's your opinion on a more aggressive mbac adding Nantuko Shades?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randomly.anonymous

Past in Flames isnt too expensive (I mean, if you have Flusterstorm and not something like Dispel, I imagine you can dish out some $$$ for PiT). Pyroblasts/Red Rlemental Blasts are not expensive and can work wonders.

Bushwacker IS really janky. I would take out two for Brain Freeze and Grapeshot. Remand is also a really cheap spell to just win if you can afford the mana cost.

I think U/R storm is a really cool concept (and really, really budget).

Consider the following changes:
-3 Goblin Bushwacker
-2 EtW (move one to wishboard)
-1 Flusterstorm
+2 Past in Flames (and probably one in your wishboard)
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Grapeshot (and one more in wishboard)

---

Yeah, I'm definately putting Past in Flames into my wishboard for sure. I have 1 Flusterstorm and the others are Dispel actually...I was testing Spell Pierce in that slot but it seems better to just protect the combo rather than try and do something proactive to stop my opponent.

I like your approach, but I wouldn't put more than 1 Empty the Warrens into the wishboard and I would definately still want 3 in the maindeck. Grapeshot is already in the wishboard, but thanks for the note. I will be getting some of the Pyroblast/REB's for the sideboard soon.

Regarding Goblin Bushwhacker: it gets a win on the spot without waiting 2 turns worth of attacking with tokens. It is sometimes a non-issue, but I'd rather attack with fourteen 2/1 hasty goblins than wait a turn to attack with thirteen 1/1 goblins. It just gives time for Firespout, Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, or other problematic spells to get online. I understand that it's janky, that's why there are only 3 slots dedicated to it. I'm considering Burst of Speed as part of my wishboard as well.

Current decklist:

Rituals = 15
4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Pyretic Ritual
4x Seething Song

Dig/Tutors = 21
4x Brainstorm
4x Preordain
2x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Manamorphose
3x Burning Wish

Storm/Win-stuff = 8
3x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
2x Brain Freeze
2x Past in Flames

Protection = 2
1x Flusterstorm
1x Dispel

Mana = 14
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
4x Shivan Reef
3x Mountain
2x Island

Sideboard
1x Grapeshot
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Burst of Speed
1x Banefire
1x Past in Flames
3x Dispel
4x Pyroblast
3x Echoing Truth


I'm not sure what to put in the sideboard for added protection...I ended up with Echoing Truth to answer permanents. Chain of Vapor might be better.

EDIT: If I bought the whole thing right now it would cost me around $200. Truthfully, I only need a handful of lands, Past in Flames, and Brain Freeze and it's done. Maybe $50 left.