[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tao

Had a 48 man trial today. Nic Fit went after Swiss 1st (me 5-0-1, UGB with Order), 2nd (friend 5-1, with Birthing Pod GBw, we built our decks together yesterday) and 3rd (4-1-1 nice guy we know, with pure GB). So no help on which version is best. Unfortunately none of us got the byes. My friend and me both lost in Quarters which was quite disappointing and the other guy lost in Semis so no Byes unfortunately.

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Additionally you can say 3/48 player are Nic Fit and all are top8:)
(after swiss 1.,2. and 3. place:)


// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Scrubland
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [R] Bayou
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Savannah
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [DDE] Bone Shredder
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [NPH] Birthing Pod
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 1 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [M12] Sundial of the Infinite
SB: 1 [M11] Duress

There is my list and i would play it again.

I've gone 5-2 in matches and 11-5 in games (2 games i was manascrew, 1 game my UW opponent topdecks stoneforge, jace and elsepth after some therapies and 1 game vs NO RUG because he had turn 4 NO + removal and fow for my birthingchain and 1 game i had a bad draw)

Congratz to all you guys! Can't wait to see some more decklist. I think that it's time for this archetype to be moved to established, but maybe the many directions this deck can take slow this down.

Tao and the others, well done, any chances to take a look at your list, or maybe just the mana base.

I'm planning to run it next Sunday at a GPT and tried to brainstorm an UBG list already. I'll post mine later one probably, loving the inclusion of NO Prog from testing in nearly all green based decks...

double, please delete.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CalebD

Unfortunately, our car broke down on the way to atlanta, so we didn't make it to the 5k, but I would've played Toa's GB version. -3 Walls, -2 Garruk, -1 Wickerbough Elder, -2 Eternal Witness, +1 Kitchen Finks, +2 Top, +2 Bob, +1 Grave Titan, +1 Therapy, +1 Veteran.

Sb

4 Leyline
4 Helm of Obedience
2 Chains of Mephistophles
2 Perish
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Stingerfling Spider (Emrakul, Tombstalker, maybe Iona.)
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Since we didn't get there, we had time to jam games, and the deck was performing super good against some of the best Legacy players I know, all with different archetypes. Sigh. >:(

It might've just been the games, but Bob, Grave Titan, and top were all hot. I might cut the last wall or a Hymn for a third bob, and maybe find room in the manabase for a second tower.

Edit: Also, someone mentioned the idea of using Spellskite to protect Spike Weaver, but there really isn't the room. Still, I liked the technology, and it's applicable to stuff like Sower.

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I like the addition of bob and top, but I don't really understand in what MU you want to board in the Leyline Helm combo, maybe you could tell us about those sideboard choices?

Hola, Sourcers.

Tao: Could I bother you with all 3 decklists? We're a crew brewing for amsterdam and some players are brewing this list, and are interested in these.

Thanks in advance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

I like the addition of bob and top, but I don't really understand in what MU you want to board in the Leyline Helm combo, maybe you could tell us about those sideboard choices?

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Post board they needle Pernicious Deed, and then you kill them. Combo is pretty good at taking control decks by surprise. Not sure if it's worth all those slots, but so far I like it.

You also have a faster path to victory against the combo decks that involves some incidental disruption. Not bad.

Been playing a miser's Skeletal Scrying lately. Card has been pretty insane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rabrab

Additionally you can say 3/48 player are Nic Fit and all are top8:)
(after swiss 1.,2. and 3. place:)


// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Scrubland
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [R] Bayou
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Savannah
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [DDE] Bone Shredder
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [NPH] Birthing Pod
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 1 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [M12] Sundial of the Infinite
SB: 1 [M11] Duress

There is my list and i would play it again.

I've gone 5-2 in matches and 11-5 in games (2 games i was manascrew, 1 game my UW opponent topdecks stoneforge, jace and elsepth after some therapies and 1 game vs NO RUG because he had turn 4 NO + removal and fow for my birthingchain and 1 game i had a bad draw)

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I'm not a huge fan of running Reveillark with no 6 to pod into. Grave Titan seems like the perfect card for inclusion in this list.

I felt it was kind of moot to post thoughts before the bannings. So MM got the axe. I don't like the banning but it isn't terrible either and was quite obvious. I really hoped Brainstorm would have gotten banned too though, and with Ponder/Preordain getting banned in modern and Brainstorm/Ponder already banned in Vintage I can't imagine WotC not knowing how ridiculous the card is. A Brainstorm ban would have helped this deck tremendously by weakening blue Combo, NO decks and Jace control. The MM ban is double-edged for Nic Fit. It directly helps because it takes away a card we don't play that is solid against us. Indirectly we have to wait for the format impact. Combo will get even stronger which is bad but with losing a free counter spell Control decks probably can't pack such an ridiculous amount of card draw anymore. The "4 Brainstorm, 4 Vision, 4 Jace" package is a joke to be honest so they will hopefully have to reduce that. No Brainstorm would have also made Therapies insane but the MM ban at least improves Therapies a bit and makes Explorers much safer.

For the Birthing Pod version I would trust rabrab. He is a very good player (made German National Top 8 twice in a row now and plays in German team this year at Worlds). I argued for Grave Titan too but he is of the opinion that Hermit is enough as a win condition because of the synergy between Titan and Metamorph/Nightmare and that a Titan is just not needed and could make the draws clunkier. He sees Pod as a strict card advantage / solution engine and that seems like the right thing to do.

The UGB Order is mostly a Metagame deck that relies on Vision decks not being able to handle Progenitus and not being able to counter NO because of Therapies. I don't have the exact version of the Trial anymore because I had to change cards due to last second card hunting but atm and with Misstep banned I would play it like below. An alternative approach that I will test is to keep Jace but use Grave Titans as a finisher and use Damnations instead of Maws in the Side to deal with Progenitus.

// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [ZEN] Island
2 [B] Tropical Island
1 [B] Underground Sea
2 [B] Bayou
3 [B] Forest
2 [B] Swamp
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower

// Creatures
4 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [CFX] Progenitus
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll

// Spells
3 [PT] Natural Order
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [EVE] Wickerbough Elder
SB: 2 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [US] Duress

Huge thanks for the post.

Any love for the new 1B + sac creature -> draw 2?

That's just Skulltap as an instant, I don't think that's what you really want.

@Tao: Something else that's got to be considered is storm combo, which has been pretty sub-par since the printing of MMS and might now make a resurgence. Past in Flames also looks pretty sweet.
You might need something in the MD against those decks.

Maybe more Hymns or 3sphere out of the board?

Ive been hoping for brainstorm to be banned for the longest time... there is so much it can do just for a one mana instant.. even make bad hands playable...but forget about it.

Mental misstep made the meta slower . Now that its gone.. out comes fast decks again....

If we do develop this further I guess the biggest concern we have is combo decks returning... Fast aggro can be dealt with easily...

Thoughts on the deck:

Before mental misstep was banned one of the main problems I was having is the significance of 2cc drops...I think having a good 2cc drop will help the curve fit in much better as a whole deck for the bgw version.

I tried adding blue in and just added brainstorms and it was really helpful in all senses.. but I never wanted to leave the deck without spot removal hence I tried a bguw version, somewhere like Calebs list.. but with brainstorms instead of Gifts as well as Nat order.... its working pretty well but needs more testing..

I liked birthing pod when I played against it, but one thing is annoying is that you have to build your creatures around it...Not that its bad, but you wont be able to get 3cc creatures when you sac a 5cc creature.. which really sucks...It can only search for creatures with the same cc and or +1cc... So I won't even bother to build the deck around birthing pods..

I also tested protean hulk as suggested by jobdevries ,and it was really good so far.. Yes sometimes I get stuck with a zenith not knowing what to zenith for as a good finisher with a lot of mana... Hulk is ok since you can always sac him in response to removal vial Tower.... netting you more creatures like witness or other stuff...

I have also looked around going combo with Hulk as an alternate win con istead of Nat order...but I guess thats too much and might end up with the deck trying to do so many things...

So what interests me now is the simple bgw or the bgwu builds..I can never deny the power of sun titan in this deck or even natural order...

I will probably need to have a good sideboard plan vs combo... which actually the only concern I have regarding the deck.

Awesome, flip. Mind showing your current decklist with hulk?
I'm still having some problems vs cawblade, batterskull is relatively resistent to pernicious deed and qasali pridemage, since they just retrieve it to hand. Any hints on how to deal with it?

@jobdevries

Ill post a deck list when I find the right list thats quite consistent.. Im still having trouble with consistency.. as the mana curve keeps on becoming an issue from time to time...

Also when people don't actually kill explorer... it becomes a problem....flying creatures are quite annoying for this deck so far... but I will still try and hopefully figure out the right combination of stuff.. and I think Tao posted a list somewhere in here... bgu... and since he has the most experience with the deck its best to consult him...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

Also when people don't actually kill explorer... it becomes a problem....flying creatures are quite annoying for this deck so far... but I will still try and hopefully figure out the right combination of stuff.. and I think Tao posted a list somewhere in here... bgu... and since he has the most experience with the deck its best to consult him...

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Play some Innocent Blood in maindeck. I heard people are playing green men again, so another turn 1 answer to Lackey is nothing but good.

Alright, I'll be looking forward to it. It's fun to see the huge differences between the decks posted here, so.
I mostly don't really have issues with getting rid of veteran. I play phyrexian towers, cabal therapies, diabolic intents, etc. and they work for me.

@firemind, innocent blood MB.. I'll try that!

Also I added a Garruk, Primal hunter, and he feels right in this deck. His ultimate is just.. appropriate in this deck.

I actually took out a land for Garruk (playing 21 lands now), since I never had problems with getting mana (veteran explorer).

Thanks for your sharings!

Two things!

1. Thoughts on post-misstep, go crazy with Innocent Bloods?

2. Anyone got a very standard GB-list I can use for reference?

I think that target removal is far more appropiate for the deck than using inocent blood. At first time it feels that is the card that must be there but then you realize that there are times that you don't have anything to sacrifice for and continue making pressure.

So what do you guys do against Hivemind? ;) Lost to it yesterday, without being able to do anything. Will it be a contender post rotation?