[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

Played in a local tournament last night. Finally broke my streak of Top 8 scrubouts, made it to the top 4 chop this time!

List was a little bit unusual:
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
2 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Careful Study
2 Children of Korlis
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

// Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
1 Massacre

I wanted to try to increase the consistancy by upping the number of ins and outs to be more like traditional reanimator lists. Despite that, there were about 4 games where I kept a hand with cantrips and an out, but bricked on the cantrips and couldn't find an in for 5+ turns.
The reanimates were ok. There was one time I couldn't use it because I was at too low of a life total, but they were handy when going off. It allowed you to Entomb or pitch a Children (child?) and reanimate it with a mana floating, which helped because I cut the number of Chrome Moxes.
Cutting the Chrome Moxes wasn't a big deal. I couldn't find more IMSs once, but it was ok because I just killed him next turn.

I've been more and more unimpressed with Daze. It's good when everything is working right, but it's really bad against a ton of decks. I'm also really ambivalent about Careful Study effects. I was able to use a careful study to find a ponder which found an Entomb for the kill on like turn 7 one game, but they were never useful beyond that. So it feels like the deck wants more cantrip density, but Careful Study isn't consistantly anything but velocity. I may try to fit in Gitaxian Probe in this new shell.

Pithing Needle was an all-star again, I wouldn't leave home without 3. I was very impressed with the Show and Tell plan against UW control and prison decks. I played against MUD and was able to show him a cute 7/7 lifelinking demon. I did board in Show and Tells game 3 against Death and Taxes, but I think that was wrong. He has a ton of different cards that are bad for me (Mangara, Karakas, Revoker, Oblivion Ring) and most of their grave hate is slow like Rest in Peace.

Overall I think this experiment was promising in that it cut a lot of sacred cow cards like Chrome Moxen and was still able to go off thanks to the raw power of Children + Griselbrand, but still didn't quite feel right. I felt like I got flooded pretty often and just couldn't find the cards I needed. Definitely want to go back having an Intuition main as a 5th Entomb.

I feel as if careful study is just very needed. A Griselbrand in your opener without one is essentially a Mull to 6 since your SnT are all SB. It is a bit weak sometimes, but it is a way to dig 2 more deep, and at the same time be a way to toss a Grisel in the yard incase you dont have an Entomb.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I feel as if careful study is just very needed. A Griselbrand in your opener without one is essentially a Mull to 6 since your SnT are all SB. It is a bit weak sometimes, but it is a way to dig 2 more deep, and at the same time be a way to toss a Grisel in the yard incase you dont have an Entomb.

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That's actually why I cut mine for Thoughtseize. 3 Thoughtseize and 4 Cabal Therapy - can serve as disruption or a discard outlet.

Good job on the finish @phazonmuant! Seems like you're right on Needle - hits karakas, deathrite, ooze, crypt, relic, etc. Seems pretty alright... Did you use Echoing Truth at all? Did you find you wanted it to be Chain of Vapor ever? Seems like with less Miracles around, it may want to be chain. Show and Tell is fine against Chalice, so maybe Echoing Truth isn't needed. What were you board plans most of the time - what were you swapping out for needles?

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Originally Posted by .dk

That's actually why I cut mine for Thoughtseize. 3 Thoughtseize and 4 Cabal Therapy - can serve as disruption or a discard outlet.

Good job on the finish @phazonmuant! Seems like you're right on Needle - hits karakas, deathrite, ooze, crypt, relic, etc. Seems pretty alright... Did you use Echoing Truth at all? Did you find you wanted it to be Chain of Vapor ever? Seems like with less Miracles around, it may want to be chain. Show and Tell is fine against Chalice, so maybe Echoing Truth isn't needed. What were you board plans most of the time - what were you swapping out for needles?

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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I may just switch over to the mono-discard plan.

I did board it in, but only used it in this really awkward gamestate against Alluren. He had drawn his one-of Faerie Macabre to mind twist me when I tried to go off turn 2, so on turn 8 or so I used ETruth to bounce his Cavern Harpy in response to Parasitic Strix and then discarded it with therapy next turn. He had boarded out his Living Wishes, so that prevented him from comboing.

But yeah, Chain probably would have been better. I wanted ETruth against Chalice, but you're right that Show and Tell is probably just stronger.

As far as boarding, I usually cut one or both Dazes. If I was boarding into Show and Tell, there's 9+6=15 potential outs and ins to cut. If not, I usually trimmed the Study effects and Griselbrands.

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I may just switch over to the mono-discard plan.

I did board it in, but only used it in this really awkward gamestate against Alluren. He had drawn his one-of Faerie Macabre to mind twist me when I tried to go off turn 2, so on turn 8 or so I used ETruth to bounce his Cavern Harpy in response to Parasitic Strix and then discarded it with therapy next turn. He had boarded out his Living Wishes, so that prevented him from comboing.

But yeah, Chain probably would have been better. I wanted ETruth against Chalice, but you're right that Show and Tell is probably just stronger.

As far as boarding, I usually cut one or both Dazes. If I was boarding into Show and Tell, there's 9+6=15 potential outs and ins to cut. If not, I usually trimmed the Study effects and Griselbrands.

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I really think that Echoing Truth has the upper hand in the case of Chalice @ 1. Even if you get Griselbrand in play with S&T you still have to find an answer to get rid of Chalice @ 1, because it disables Entomb, Children of Korlis, Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize, BS/Ponder, Dark Ritual. The only option is to get another S&T into Emrakul into play to maintain momentum. But even that plan loses a turn in speed and would require you to get some combination of Lotus Petal and Cabal Ritual iot get at least 2(U), which is pretty hard to accomplish with only 14 cards drawn of Griselbrand. Chain of Vapor is out of the question in this case to bounce Chalice @ 1, so 1/3 Echoing Truth is a better plan imo. It solves the same other problems as CoV does plus more.

As for Show and Tell, can anyone explain me why and when that card is better to board in? Because i am beginning to think its not worth to run S&T over hate against the same problem trying to solve with S&T in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

I really think that Echoing Truth has the upper hand in the case of Chalice @ 1. Even if you get Griselbrand in play with S&T you still have to find an answer to get rid of Chalice @ 1, because it disables Entomb, Children of Korlis, Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize, BS/Ponder, Dark Ritual. The only option is to get another S&T into Emrakul into play to maintain momentum. But even that plan loses a turn in speed and would require you to get some combination of Lotus Petal and Cabal Ritual iot get at least 2(U), which is pretty hard to accomplish with only 14 cards drawn of Griselbrand. Chain of Vapor is out of the question in this case to bounce Chalice @ 1, so 1/3 Echoing Truth is a better plan imo. It solves the same other problems as CoV does plus more.

As for Show and Tell, can anyone explain me why and when that card is better to board in? Because i am beginning to think its not worth to run S&T over hate against the same problem trying to solve with S&T in the first place.

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The advantage of Show and Tell against Chalice decks is that they don't really have good answers to a Griselbrand in play. If they do, they have no way to find them, so you can just steal wins. On the other hand, trying to find Echoing Truth against chalices and 3balls and then find action is pretty tough.

Chain of Vapor is better against taxing hate like Maverick or Death and Taxes, whereas Echoing Truth is better against hard prison. It really depends what your board plan for those respective decks is to say which one is better.

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

The advantage of Show and Tell against Chalice decks is that they don't really have good answers to a Griselbrand in play. If they do, they have no way to find them, so you can just steal wins. On the other hand, trying to find Echoing Truth against chalices and 3balls and then find action is pretty tough.

Chain of Vapor is better against taxing hate like Maverick or Death and Taxes, whereas Echoing Truth is better against hard prison. It really depends what your board plan for those respective decks is to say which one is better.

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Right - if you're landed a Griselbrand in play off of Show and Tell against a deck running Chalice or 3sphere - you don't need to combo off. They more than likely won't have a good answer, and you can just swing in for the win. And if they do have an answer, well, I heard you have a pretty good draw engine to find more Show and Tells and threats.

Top 4 chopped a local tournament again this week. Similar list as before except:
-2 Daze, -2 Study effects,
+2 Thoughtseize, +1 Cabal Therapy, +1 Intuition, +1 Chrome Mox
(Yeah, that's 61 cards, so sue me)

Board is:
-2 discard effects, -1 Echoing Truth,
+2 Chain of Vapor, +1 Massacre

Deck felt very, very solid. It was a very small tournament because of some severe weather so didn't get to play much magic, unfortunately.

Round 1 - ANT
Game 1 - He mulled to 6 and I kept a hand with a couple of cantrips and some disruption. I took both his tutors over a couple of turns and then was able to Reanimate Griselbrand (putting me to 9). Next turn I swing and drew 14, but bricked. He made an involved series of plays including Burning Wish for Tendrils, tank, play LED, play Infernal Tutor, crack for RRR with B in pool, scoop.
Game 2 - He mulliganed again and I kept another hand with a cantrip and an out and some disruption. I Intuitioned for Griselbrand x2, Children on turn 2 and killed him on turn 3.
1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 - Bant
Game 1 - He had a fair bit of disruption, but Thoughtseize took a Clique, Cabal Therapy forced him to Force (pitching Jace) or risk me taking both Forces, and from there I was able to win on turn 4 or so.
Game 2 - I boarded a couple of Needles and a couple of Massacres and a Chain for 2 Griselbrand, a Chrome Mox, a Cabal Therapy, and a Reanimate. Kept a 0-lander with Petal and Ponder. Got punished for my greed, but didn't see any hate cards when I finally drew a land to Thoughtseize him.
Game 3 - I boarded out the bounce and Massacres but left in Needle for Karakas or Knight. We both mulled to 6 and I kept a "do you have it?" hand - Petal, DR, Entomb, Vengeance, Brainstorm, Griselbrand. Got there.
2-0 (4-1)

Round 3 - ID
Yeah, there were only 15 players this week. I played a couple of preboard games against the guy (he's on 4c Punishing Fire Stoneblade) and crushed him one game through Force and StP x2, then lost single-handedly to Spell Snare preventing me from casting an out the next game.

Top 8 - Jund Zombie Bombardment
My opponent brewed up this deck a couple of months ago (before Sam Black's take) and has been doing well with it. It can really abuse Therapy and can be very explosive with Gravecrawlers and Vengevines. Unfortunately, he didn't have real grave hate.
Game 1 - He mulligans into an unexciting aggro hand. I kill him on turn 3 with some hot Goryo's Vengeance action after he does nothing but play Carrion Feeder and Lotleth Troll.
Game 2 - I board in Needle for 2 Griselbrands and a Chrome Mox because I'm convinced he has either Crypt or Faerie Macabre as the only logical grave hate. My hand is double Entomb, double Vengeance, land, Chrome Mox, Petal, and I draw Entomb for turn. He plays Needle on his first turn, so I tank for a bit, then decide my route to victory is swinging with both Griselbrand and Emrakul - it doesn't do enough to just make Emrakul and annihilate 2 permanents. So I end up Entombing Griselbrand at the end of his turn, then realize I can't animate both and cast Entomb, so decide to just eot Vengeance, main phase make Emrakul and play around Macabre somewhat. That all happens and I kill him despite him swinging for 5 with Lotleth Troll. It turns out he only has anti-hate - 3 Pithing Needle and 3 Ground Seal.


.dk - thanks for suggesting the move to all discard - I didn't miss Daze for a second! The discard is just much more versatile and consistent. I whiffed on Therapy a couple of times, but it was good once too. Not sure how I feel about it overall.

I've been liking the Reanimates as more action + more ways to make Children. It makes continuing the Children chain much easier. I've found it's usually not worth it to draw the turn Griselbrand comes into play, but the tradeoff of going off a turn earlier is worth it. I didn't use Show and Tells at all, but I like them - it's kinda comforting knowing that if someone has too much hate, you can just bring in Show and Tell. The other cards are versatile enough that I have plenty of extra sideboard room.

Definitely playing this list at SCG Atlanta this weekend. I hope I get feature matched / deck teched!

Watching you on camera right now!

Grats on the win. Was awesome seeing the deck in action on camera!

So pumped to see you on camera! 100% rooting for you!!!!

Yeah really nice to see you in action Greg go go go !!

Congrats Greg! Your wishes of feature + deck tech came wonderfully true! Looking forward to your tourney report (if you have time/energy to write one.)

Man. Some awesome goals happened that tournament. So happy I managed to get Deck Tech'd and featured. I ended up going X-3 for 34th place (18 points were split down the middle for top32), ugh. Exhausted, part of why I didn't end so well, so brief summary. I lots to: a bad Maverick matchup with Canonist and weak hands (possibly bad sideboarding too), an easy matchup against 4c cascade with a greedy keep g2 then bricking and subsequently discarding Emrakul g3, then a bad Lands matchup that I sideboarded completely wrong for.

So I feel like if I had more tournament experience post-board, I could have very easily crushed. No one has relevant cards and the deck is consistent and powerful.

Also, yes, I played a 61-card combo maindeck. Suck it.

I'm currently watching the decktech, and you're doing awesome.

Does anyone have a link to the featured match though?

That was some shitty luck with mavericl guy having Faerie Macabre in hand after the second Goryos Vengeance

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

Man. Some awesome goals happened that tournament. So happy I managed to get Deck Tech'd and featured. ...Also, yes, I played a 61-card combo maindeck. Suck it.

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I enjoyed watching both. Keep it up!

Nice, congrats on finish!

Congrats on finish !

Is this Griselbrand/Goryo's Vengeance a real thing ? :smile:

Congrats Greg! Good to see your work pay off ... bad beats vs. Lands guy ... #ChaliceOnOneOwnsYou

Nice finish Greg - jealous of the camera match! :D

Haven't watched it yet, unfortunately - been out of the country for the last week and just got back last night. Will definitely be checking it out once SCG puts up the archives though.