Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

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Originally Posted by [SLAYER]chaos

I just picked up some Sneak Attacks so I'm going to be building this deck soon. How necessary are chaos warps? I was thinking about running something closer to the list Koby posted with a higher count of creatures. I especially like the 3 Inferno Titan in that list.

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Koby's put his time in, I wouldn't worry about running that list card for card. As for Chaos Warp, I agree with King. It can always re-flip whatever it shuffled away so it's never 100%. Gaddock Teeg is the most common real threat you need to deal with. Post board you can run into things like ensnaring bridge. Just the fact warp hits both of these AND Jace TMS, is pretty sweet. Another fun piece of chaos warp is that in a moon heavy deck it can take out the one basic they managed to get in play before dropping your moon.

Why grafdigger's cage over tormod's crypt or relic of progenitus?

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Originally Posted by [SLAYER]chaos

Why grafdigger's cage over tormod's crypt or relic of progenitus?

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It stops Snapcaster Mage and Reanimator and GSZ alike. At least, that's what I want it for. Relic might be a bit better for cantripping. Tormod's Crypt is likely the weakest option. We definitely don't want to lose to Reanimator/Iona on Red.

Agreed. And its a permanent answer to dredge. Relic and Crypt can both be detrimental when cracked, but a turn one cage literally turns off their deck until it's dealt with.

Any new updates to the deck list?

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Originally Posted by hessenbob

Any new updates to the deck list?

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Trinisphere is better maindeck than Blood Moon right now. My friend 5-0, 10-0'd a room filled with S&T and Elf decks to win first place. Seems legit.

I'm pretty happy with the most recent list I posted. The few updates I made are...
Koth into the main in place of 1 pyromancy, they're both good against control but are also both worthless in multiples.
Titan from the board into the main for Warp. Warp is best used as an answer to hate cards, shouldn't be necessary game 1.
Karakas in the main out for a red fetch, not being able to legend rule others makes it worse.
1 pyroclasm and the hole from koth in the board both became chalice of the voids.
Karakas in the board will become either a moon, titan, or some spicy tech (like word of seizing, which is not optimal, but so much fun)...still not sure. Might even try new Chandra.

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Originally Posted by hdeck12

I'm pretty happy with the most recent list I posted. The few updates I made are...
Koth into the main in place of 1 pyromancy, they're both good against control but are also both worthless in multiples.
Titan from the board into the main for Warp. Warp is best used as an answer to hate cards, shouldn't be necessary game 1.
Karakas in the main out for a red fetch, not being able to legend rule others makes it worse.
1 pyroclasm and the hole from koth in the board both became chalice of the voids.
Karakas in the board will become either a moon, titan, or some spicy tech (like word of seizing, which is not optimal, but so much fun)...still not sure. Might even try new Chandra.

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I'd argue for Cryoclasm if you had more draw.

This is what I'm currently rocking:

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Worldspine Worm
3 Griselbrand
3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
2 Pyromancy
1 Chaos Warp

4 Sensei’s Divining Top

3 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song
1 Lotus Petal

5 Mountain
5 fetchland
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

Changed from my past list:
-4 Blood Moon (to the sideboard)
+3 Trinisphere (from the sideboard)
-1 Faithless Looting (hardly been used or relevant, too low impact)
+1 Chaos Warp (experimenting with it, let's see how this will work out)
+1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard is full on Chalice mode, with some added Pyroclasm to deal with DRS. Blood Moon seems to me like a catch all, and REB/Pyro to deal with SNT decks.

i back these updates. i'm still a fan of word of seizing

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Originally Posted by xdavisx

i back these updates. i'm still a fan of word of seizing

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What uses does word of seizing have that you would really want though? The cases I would see using it would be against other Sneak/Show decks and trying to take their creatures, to protect yourself from dying. Even then, it isn't target Emrakul which is the the fatty you're most afraid of.

I could see maybe stealing opponent's Griselbrand to draw a bunch of cards and combo off on your own turn?

Take somebody's Clique/Goyf or something to deal the vital post-Emrakul 5?

The card just seems a little too narrow for the purposes of this deck.

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Originally Posted by Tseng

What uses does word of seizing have that you would really want though? The cases I would see using it would be against other Sneak/Show decks and trying to take their creatures, to protect yourself from dying. Even then, it isn't target Emrakul which is the the fatty you're most afraid of.

I could see maybe stealing opponent's Griselbrand to draw a bunch of cards and combo off on your own turn?

Take somebody's Clique/Goyf or something to deal the vital post-Emrakul 5?

The card just seems a little too narrow for the purposes of this deck.

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Think bigger...
Ever seen a jace staring at you with 13 counters on it?
Or a Lilly about to ultimate your board?

Yes griselbrand is a sweet steal, but going ultimate with an opponents planeswalker is really what its for.

Hi all!
I've just created an account to share my Big Red experience..
I've finished 3rd /128 in a big legacy tournament in France recently.. :smile:

As you'll see, my list is a bit different compared to lists discussed here, as I chose to reinforce the "stompy" side of the deck with 4 chalice, 6 blood/magus and trinisphere main deck..
Chalice and Blood are so powerfull in France meta that it easily and constantly provides free win.

- G1 : 2-0 vs storm
- G2: 1-2 vs sneak show ..
- G3 2-0 vs jund
- G4: 2-1 vs 5 color cascad ??
- G5: 2-1 vs deathblade
- G6: 2-1 vs jund
- G7 : 2-0 big blue

Top 8 :
- Quarters : 2-0 vs T *****
With impressive hands, I locked my opponent on G1 with chalice and blood, and will go God-mod on G2 for a T2 win :-)

- 1/2 Finals: lost vs Omni-Show.. A match full of missplays from my side...

The List :

8 sol land ( city / ancient tomb)
12 mountain
4 simian spirit guide
4 seething song
4 chalice
2 trinisphere
4 blood moon
2 magus of the moon
4 sneak attack
4 through the breach
2 griselbrand
4 emrakul
4 worldspine wurm
3 inferno titan => This guy is awesome... I really stole games with him...


SB :
4 leyline of sanctify
2 trinisphere
1 pyromancy
2 defense grid
2 chaos warp
2 pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger cage

Congrats Philo! Thats a good sized tournament. Nice to see another sleeper smashing with monstars. The most success I've ever had with the deck was a more stompy build featuring chalices and moons. Maybe it is just better then the Senseis top version. You must be very good at deciding which mulligans to keep. Keep it up!

@hdeck12

LOL, i get this message from my friend today.

"Your friend, Hdeck from the Source, Shiiiiit all over me in the 10th Round of the Legacy Open."

it made my night, looking forward to a report

So what are the thoughts on the manabase at this point in time? I like running 4 Tops with 5 fetches, so I've been going more toward the manabase that Koby is running.


I've been enjoying the following list, at 61 cards (an extra Trinisphere). I cut the pyromancies, as I've only won probably 1 game out of an estimated 40-50 games with it.

5 Mountain
5 fetchland
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Worldspine Worm
3 Griselbrand
3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
1 Grim Monolith
2 Chaos Warp

4 Sensei’s Divining Top

4 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song
1 Lotus Petal

I would max the ancient tomb before the sandstone needles, since they allow you for broken starts like tomb + simian + song + SA/TtB + Wurm

I played in the Legacy open at SCG Somerset this past sunday. It was the largest one they've ever had. 500 something people. 10 rounds, and full of all the ringers who were in town for the invitational...Brutal!

I didn't take to many notes so this should be pretty short and sweet. List-->Round by Round-->Reflections

List

4 sneak attack
4 through the breach
2 pyromancy

4 emrakul, the aeons torn
4 worldspine wurm
3 griselbrand
3 inferno titan

3 sensei's divining top
2 faithless looting
3 trinisphere

4 seething song
4 simian spirit guide
1 lotus petal
4 ancient tomb
4 sandstone needle
2 city of traitors
4 mountain
1 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn

//SB
2 grafdigger's cage
2 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
3 chalice of the void
3 blood moon
2 pyroclasm
1 chaos warp


Round by Round

Round 1 Reid Duke with B/G Pox
I've seen Reid play at other SCG's. I was a little star struck sitting down across from one of the pros I admire. I rarely get intimidated, but I saw this guy crushing a tournament with scroll rack the weekend after land tax was unbanned...it impressed me. I played like a total noob this game, it was embarrassing. I don't know if it was playing a ringer round 1, or the 11 rounds of standard the day before, but I was off my game.
Game 1 I'm on the play and keep 6 with turn 2 wurm. He keeps 7 and leads off with a bojuka bog. WTF? What deck keeps 7 and leads off with a bojuka bog? I was confused, but it's Reid Duke so he clearly knows what he's doing. I untap and slam the wurm. It's too much to handle.
SB I have no idea what he's on but I'm guessing its not combo. Out 3spheres and in Moons
Game 2 I keep 7 with a turn 1 moon. He leads with some black land that comes into play tapped. I draw and play moon. We play draw go for about 10 turns while he discards sinkholes, hymns and poxes. I'm still not entirely sure what he was playing, but I'm pretty sure it had 0-2 basics in the 75. Not a very fun match for either of us but I walk away with a win.

1-0 Crank some Eminem through my headphones and try to get in the zone.

Round 2 Greg with OmniShow
We sit down and have a short conversation about how much we both hate show and tell. I'm being perfectly honest, s&t is a trap.
Game 1 Greg casts show and tell on turn 2. I lose as he brainstorms with 2 cards in his library.
I'm pretty mad at this point. Not cause he lied to me, but because it didn't even cross my mind. Definitely still off my game.
SB in 4 blasts, 1 warp, 1 chalice out 3 song 2 faithless 1 pyromancy
Game 2 I keep a 7 with 3sphere, Reb and Titan. I rip a spirit guide and can play my 3sphere on turn 2 with Blast backup. It resolves anyways. I get to 6 mana and cast titan. I untap and swing. On his end step he wishes, and I blast...on to game 3.
Game 3 I keep Blast, Sneak, Warp, lands. He turn one thoughtseizes me. Well, guess he's not mono blue, thats not good. He takes my blast. I rip an emrakul. I'm in an awkward position because if I play my sneak attack I won't have mana up to activate it or for warp and am totally defenseless if he goes off on his turn 3. So I pass the turn and hope he doesn't go off with backup. He doesn't. I decide that doing nothing puts me in the same position again so I decided to end step warp one of his lands putting him to two so that he can't wish or intuition when I cast sneak attack. It works better than I could have ever imagined. On his end step, the underground sea turns into a dream halls. I rip a spirit guide, discard it to cast sneak attack, and emrakul away the game.
Turns out even though he's a dirty liar, Greg is a real nice guy. We talked after the match and throughout the day, hope to see him again sometime.

2-0 Feelin good cause I actually had to make decisions, but still heading back to the hood up headphones on.

Round 3 Evan with Esper/Death-blade
Evan goes to college where I live so we know each other well. It sucks playing friends so early in the day.
Game 1 I'm on the draw. I keep my 7. I know his list isn't traditional esperblade or deathblade, it's some 4 color hybrid. He leaves up flooded strand for two turns so I do nothing expecting spell pierce or swords to plowshares. He taps out on turn 3 for geist of st traft. I slam wurm and hear "and of course the tokens have trample too."
SB Out 3 spheres, 3 songs, 2 pyromancy, in 3 Moons 3 blasts 2 pyroclasm.
Game 2 I draw a sweet 7. He wastes my needle. Wastes my tomb, vindicates my mountain. I don't see another land until I'm beaten down by a batterskull.
Game 3 He plays turn 1 deathrite, turn 2 meddling mage on sneak attack, turn 3 stoneforge fetching batterskull. I sandbag a pyroclasm until turn 4. He counters my through the breach. He counters my through the breach. I resolve a sneak attack and wipe his board with emrakul. I sneak attack a spirit guide the following turn to finish the match.

3-0 Well, at least one of us was going to end up 3-0, feelin the zone now.

Round 4 Scott with elves.
Game 1 I'm on the draw. I sneak attack a titan to wipe his board and finish up with an emrakul.
SB In 3 chalice, 2 pyroclasm 2 cage Out 2 pyromancy, 4 wurm 1 faithless
Game 2 He plays llanowar. I play Chalice off tomb. He plays greensuns x=1 for dryad arbor and cradle into visionary. I play trinishpere off tomb going to 16. He casts natural order and Hoofs me for 16 exactly. I'm impressed. I thought I had the game on lockdown.
Game 3. I can't believe I just lost that game. My deck agrees with me delivers an unbeatable 7. Turn one on the play vs elves. Tomb->Guide->Song->Song->Cast Titan, Pass turn.

4-0 Halfway there.

Round 5 Dustin with BUG
Game 1 He maelstrom pulses my hardcast titan and FOWs my next two threats. I lose
SB Out 3 spheres, 3 songs, 1 faithless, In 3 moons, 4 blasts
Game 2 I resolve a turn 4 sneak attack and griselbrand gives me 14 chances to hit a 15/15. I win
Game 3 I keep an average 7. Unfortunately my opponent is smart enough to FOW my turn 1 top. I manage to rip a second a bit later but a pair of goyfs are pressuring me. I set two threats up on top of my deack but unfortunately he thoughtseizes a Wurm out of my hand so I'm forced to shuffle. I find one more threat but he's holding FOW blue card. I lose.

4-1 Super disappointed but felt like my opponent played super tight.

Round 6 Andrew with Jund
Game 1 He gets me down to 7 before I can annihilate his board and put him to 2. For the second time of the day a simian spirit guide with haste closes out the game.
SB Out 3 spheres, 2 pyromancys, 1 faithless, In 3 moons, 2 pyroclams, 1 warp
Game 2 I keep a sweet 7. Thoughseize hits me turn 1 but I have double everything so I'm still good to go on turn 3. Turn 2 Hymn takes my land AND spirit guide. Turn 3 Hymn gets my song and something irrelevant. I can't build enough mana or rebuild my hand before my face gets junded on.
Game 3 I mull to 5 and keep a hand with turn two moon and pray he doesn't thoughtseize me turn 1. It works out, I slam the moon on turn 2 and a wurm on turn 4.

5-1 Take a deep breath and tell myself I've still got a shot.

Round 7 Bill with ANT
I sit down and look to my left, he's playing lands, I look to my right, he's playing lands. PLEASE tell me i'm playing against lands....
Game 1 I'm on the play. Turn 1 duress takes my sneak attack. F***! the two guys next to me are playing lands and I get paired with storm. I cast a titan turn 2 with a song. Turn 3 use a song to make him a super titan and attack my opponent down to 1. Go ahead try to adnauseum! Cabal Ritual, Cabal Ritual, LED, LED, Infernal Tutor, Break-LEDs, Cabal ritual, Flashback Past in Flame, Tutor, Tendrils. Ouch.
SB 3 chalice, 3 moon Out 2 pyromany, 1 Wurm 3 titan
Game 2 I don't know the ANT list very well (I blame you Bryant Cook) and thought setting my chalice at 2 would be better than 1 because then I could still cast top, and turn off his tutors. In retrospect I should have just set it at 0. It's ok though, at the end of this game my opponent is trying to go off through double blood moon, double trinisphere. He gets surprisingly close.
Game 3 I mull to 4 before seeing anything resembling a winning hand. He kills me the turn before I can emrakul his board.

5-2 Out of the top 8 but still in contention for top 16 or 32.

Round 8 Daniel with UW Landstill.
I'm so tired and dejected at this point I don't even wanna play magic anymore.
Game 1 3 mishras factories beat me down while FOWs and spell pierces keep me off anything relevant.
SB in 3 moons 4 blasts out 4 songs 2 faithless looting 1 sphere.
Game 2 I kinda give up this game cause I'm frustrated. All I remember is on the crucial turn he cast Clique, I REBed it, He misdirected it, I REBed it again, he pierced or forced or both.

5-3 Come this far, might as well play it out for top 64.

Round 9 Eric Vogt with ????
Game 1 The judge comes by and says, if your opponent shows up or ten minutes goes by call me.
Game 2 The judge says ok ten minutes is up, which of these two names is you.

6-3 If I lose my last round and waited all this time I'm not going to be a happy camper.

Round 10 Erik with RUG
Game 1 I'm on the draw. I wait until I can play around soft counters and land a sneak attack. No FOW in sight. I tap two mountains to give emrakul and Titan haste.
SB In 3 moons, 4 Blasts Out 3 song, 2 sphere, 2 pyromancy
Game 2 Turn 1 delver puts me under pressure. Turn 2 waste keeps me there. I walk into a daze, and turn 3 waste seals his win.
Game 3 He mulls to the near perfect 4. I drop a turn 1 moon and he doesn't have force.

7-3 good fro 42nd place out of a ton of people and $50. Call it a day and start the 4 hour drive back to my house.

Reflections
Inferno titan was the nuts all day long.
Pyromancy didn't do anything for me all day. I'm thinking about cutting it for another lock piece and a land or a miser defense grid.
10 rounds playing against 9 different decks (10 potentially if my opponent had shown up) tells me that we have a super healthy format.
I need to work on the BUG matchup. It used to be a joke, but I struggled with it this weekend. I didn't remember Goyf being in that deck.
Faithless looting is literally terrible when you have a top in play. I think I'm going back to 4 tops 1 faithless
I might want a misers mindbreak trap in the board. The storm matchup is so hard. Especially when you lose the die roll.

I didn't get to sleep until 3 am last night and had to be up for work this morning so remember I was super tired when I wrote this, ignore any typos.
-H

Very nice report hdeck12!!!

I see you have boarded in blood moons seven time out of nine played rounds, and boarded out trinisphere 5 times: wouldn't it be better if you played BM main deck? I'm referring to a big tournament obviously, since in local meta you adjust to what you know your opponents are playing (basically more combo -> 3sphere MD, more fair -> blood moon MD).

That said I think your consideration about pyromancy is right, as the deck needs more threats that are castable and don't depend on the fatties.

Congratz hdeck12!
Very good report!

I'm a little bit startled about not having Blood Moon MD.
Was is a meta choice? Because in my experience a Blood Moon T1 or T2 is 80% of the time a win.
Or is it like a "bluff" like "i cheat phat motherfuckerz, you'll maybe board hate against trinisphere but i'm going to board in BM that you wont expect"
Asking that because in the end like kingtk3 said you sided-in those BM 7 times of 9 rounds.
Blood Moon would have maybe saved you there, don't you think?

Again report and grtz for your 42th place ;)

Kid