One Of My games was recently recorded. I'll post a link when it's online.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
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One Of My games was recently recorded. I'll post a link when it's online.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
And its up: http://www.youtube.com/mtgvideoQuote:
Originally Posted by waytowinatwar
Hi all,
@waytowinatwar: becareful, you forgot to draw at 12min in game1. But GG (^_^).
Have you already think to splash black and play some discard cards like duress or cabal ?
You make a few odd plays. Not "wrong" necessarily, but I'd be interested to hear your reasoning. Game 1, you run your first Green Sun's Zenith right into Daze when there's no real reason to. You use your Seal of Removal on Delver of Secrets when you're at 21 life, instead of using it to protect your eventual guys from burn. You start cycling through your deck with a fetchland in play, rather than using the fetchland to thin your deck of lands. You play your Carpet of Flowers triggers oddly, waiting to trigger them until second main rather than getting mana with them right away, which doesn't really matter but it's less efficient and can hurt you in the long run. You return a Wild Growth with Words of Wind off of the draw triggers from the same Wild Growth, which is illegal. And just in general, you're playing slowly and inefficiently; you have 2 Cloud of Faeries in hand but only play one before you start using WOW triggers to pick stuff up, which results in returning a Chrome Mox and a couple of Wild Growths. That turn, you could have ended with your entire deck on the board but didn't, which could have prolonged things if he had some more burn spells.
Game 2, you run your Cloud of Faeries right out there for no reason when you have multiple Seal of Removal in your hand and all the time in the world, which ends up with them getting hit by Surgical Extraction and making it way more difficult to win. You play your third Seal of Removal and your Carpet of Flowers instead of finding a second Enchantress with your GSZ, which makes sense if you're playing around Spell Pierce but if you weren't willing to play around the lowly Daze in game 1, that seems unlikely. Later you use that GSZ for a Kitchen Finks which is fine, but probably not better than just getting an Enchantress earlier and drawing at least two extra cards, which could have turned into Elephant Grass or more Green Sun's Zenith or anything else, but with a much better board position. You also had triple Seal of Removal so you had turns you could have spent building up board position rather than going for the quick defensive Kitchen Finks. And you seem to just throw cards away by imprinting stuff on Chrome Mox and then bouncing Chrome Mox with Words of Wind, which is probably just not right.
I mean, you won, so it doesn't really matter, but you would have won outright instead of being in danger of getting burned out game 2 had he had the cards or played differently. If that's your current pace of play, I suggest you practice a lot more because you're going to draw in pretty much every round at that speed. And you could have played a lot differently and completely minimized any chance of losing at all, rather than scraping by with a 1-0 victory. You just seemed very unsure of yourself which is another thing that more practice would remedy.
I played a new tournament a while ago but i haven't had the time to post it. But since I played another tournament today that i wanted to write about i thought id post this first even though this report will feature less mulligan decisions and other details and I post it mostly for my last game against goblins.
8 people, 3-1, won on tiebreakers (40 min rounds)
After a brief period of disenchantment I'm back to loving the deck. I've gone back on a few card changes I've made earlier and am now rocking
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Carpet of Flowers
4 Cloud of Faeries
2 Chrome mox
4 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Eternal Witness
7 Forest
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Island
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
1 Seal of Primordium
4 Seal of Removal
1 Tropical Island
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Windswept Heath
2 Words of Wisdom
Sideboard:
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Deep analysis
1 Braingeyser
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
R1 Tes 2-1
It is really gsz that makes the difference in this mu since it gives you 12-14 relevant cards after sideboarding rather than 8-10. I've tested considerably against this player and I'm now 9-12 overall. Not as bad as one would think.
R2 Death and Taxes 2 - 0
See above. I'm 5-0 in matches against this deck. Board the artifact hate (for the carpets) and make sure you destroy their vials.
R3 junk 2-1 (- 2 carpet, witness, prim, rem + 4 leyline, + sliver)
This is for most intents and purposes like facing jund and I sideboard accordingly. Landing a leyline is everything.
R4 goblins 1 - 2
G1 otd (unknown deck)
7: misty, Heath, savannah, faerie, witness, removal*2
Not sure about this one. No ench but seal of removal will buy me time, fearie+witness allows me to dig. I keep.
I draw argothian t2, he starts slow with a prospector which I bounce(probably wrong). He's never really in it.
G2 (-2 carpet, + sliver, grip)
7 tropical, forest*2, prescence, faerie, wow, removal
No acceleration, and only u off nonbasic. I think it would have been alright to keep but t1 lackey, t2 wasteland would have destroyed me. Ship.
6 misty, forest*2, sprawl, gsz, finks
Solid mana, acceleration and ench. Keep. He plays t1 lackey, which connects once to put a lord into play which cheats additional goblins into play. His t3 krenko is too much.
G3
7 Forest mox, faerie*2, finks, witness, grip
No ench, no blue land, a little light on mana. No rem/grass. Ship.
6 forest, heath*2, sprawl, arg*2
Don't play sprawl t1 in order to cantrip it later. I'm landing arg t2 and t3 regardless I'm thinking. He has lackey t1 again though and I never get seals or grass and is overrun. Was the 7 a better hand? It's better against lackey/vial, and isn't goblins too slow for us without them? Even without ench on the draw.
Ps. Benthetenor: thank you for your precise comments about my games. I'll be sure to review them in detail later.
New tournament 32 people, 4-1-2(the two draws were intentional), tied for 3rd
Exact same 75 as last tournament.
R1 Loam/chains/punishing fire/burning wish/ lingering souls rbgw 1-0
G1
My opponent is 30 (!) min late and is awarded a game loss for tardiness.
G2
7 island, heath, growth, argothian*2, presence, faerie. Keep.
Op begins with land go, I draw sprawl, play heath into forest into sprawl, chooses blue(should have been green, this stalls me for a turn later on). Op plays land, chalice for 1. I play island, argothian, pass, (should have been faerie into arg to protect from lilliana), he cycles lands, I go faerie, land, arg, presence. He goes chains (of Mephistopheles). :( Over a few turns i gradually start to assemble my janky creatures, finks, witness, 2 faeries, on 10 he burning wishes for pyroclasm. I'm suddenly on defence when he starts flashing back lingering souls. He is not very focused though and time is eventually called. In his final round he is about two turns from killing me.
R2 punishing maverick (no thalias) 2-0
G1 otd
7 forest*3, misty, growth, sprawl, presence. Keep
His first four turns are mother, ooze, knight, waste himself to attack for 8. My first three are forest into sprawl, arg into growth, prescence into sprawl. I lock the the game down on t4.
G2 (-2 carpet, + grip, sliver)
7 forest*2, island, misty, sprawl, primordium, grass. Not an obvious keep, but when I loose to maverick it is mostly due to canonist which is answered by sliver. And grass buys me a lot of time. Keep
It turns out that his draw is quite poor. He incorrectly at one point chooses not to destroy a prescence to focus on grass. This was largely inconsequential though.
R3 Merfolk 2-0
G1 otd
7 misty, sprawl, arg, witness, removal, faeries*2 light on mana, but I have everything else. Keep.
He goes t1 curse catcher, t2 land still. This is fine by me since I stall on mana despite cycling faeries. Once i draw mana and he is on 7 cards again I break standstill. Elephant grass and removal resolves and he is one turn from killing me when I bounce all his permanents.
G2 (- prim, witness, + carpet, sliver)
7 forest, misty, sprawl, growth, presence, removal, grass. Perfect! Keep.
He cantrips Merfolk t2 and t3 but miss his third land drop. I win fairly easily with forest into growth, t2 removal, t3 prescence with daze mana into sprawl, t4 grass.
R4 and R5 ID
Quarter finals Omniscience/ enter the infinite / emrakul win pre board 2-1
All three games were tight and interesting.
G1 otd
7 misty*2, mox, arg, gsz, prim, finks. While finks does nothing, hitting my one off prim is super relevant. Keep.
He plays island go. I draw a seal of removal. What to do? I play mox into arg (to cantrip my seals t2) he goes tomb, snt into omniscience ( I land prim), into emrakul, I kill omni, he takes a turn, attacks I sac everything. I go land removal. He brainstorms and finds a fow.
Had I gone t1 seal, I could have snt the other seal, kill omni and bounce emrakul without taking damage and sacing my stuff. Not sure if this was the right play though. Thoughts?
G2 (- 4 grass, 4 removal, 1 fink+ 2 surgical, carpet, sliver, grip, 3 traps, teag)
7 only one land
6 forest, carpet, arg, presence, gsz, sliver. Land light but I reason he won't fow carpet, which means t2 arg. I also have sliver which is super relevant. Keep.
He does fow carpet but I draw a land so I can play arg but he also fows that as well. Another land yields me t3 teag. His t3 is snt into omniscience, I have sliver but he has wish for trick bind. But this means he can't wish for bounce for teag and cannot eti, and his emrakul s have been boarded out. I go off three turns later)
G3
Misty, mox, carpet, gsz, faerie*2, wow. I'm hoping to resolve a t2 gsz into teag here and have excellent mana. Keep.
He plays t2 vault, and I get my teag, his t3 is a third island, and cantrips and a top which yields snt into dreamhalls, but no follow up, I've drawn a prescence and can play it and wow thanks to carpet. They resolve i pass. he draws, plays a land pass.i draw sprawl into growth into arg. Next turn I will be able to bounce everything. Pass. He blanks. Bounce everything.
Semi finals infect 1-2(olle råde)
G1 otd
7 Trop, savannah, forest, presence, faerie, removal, wow keep
He is quite slow and removal and grass and witness for removal buys me enough time to go off.
G2 (- carpet, - finks+ grip and sliver, should I have boarded traps?)
7 no lands
6 1 land
5 misty, sprawl, arg, presence, grass. ok for a 5 cards I reason
He goes land hierarch. I draw removal, play land sprawl which he dazes. He replays his land and an unblockable infect guy. I draw land. I play the removal but keep the grass. He goes land might of old krosa. I fear vines so I let it resolve. He attacks, berserk, I try to bounce, vines! Grass would have kept him at bay for a few turns. But it would have been difficult for me to develop under it. Maybe I should have bounced straightaway? This would have given me one extra turn. Grass maybe on more. Probably nothing I could have done here really.
G3
7 Forest, sprawl *2, growth, arg*2, presence. No interaction, but I felt that it is fast enough even if I don't draw the second land. I go growt t1 and 2 sprawls t2, arg and prim t3. He kills me with a blighted agent on his t3. Should have mulliganed after removal and /or grass.
Fun tournament! I think the infect matchup is better than this lets on. Perhaps skip sliver and one more carpet for 2 traps when boarding. In order to kill with a single strike with vines backup for removal he needs to play three spells (as he did g2).
Thank you. You are right, this was a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
Regarding discard: this is not something you want to do in this deck since you have so much redundency in the deck with respect to enchantress effects already and discard doesn't really contribute much. Non enchantments that doesn't cycle or let's you draw off of other enchantments should be avoided. We are not even playing brainstorms!
Just so you know, the moderators don't tend to like it when people double and triple post. I know that you have more and new information with each post, but that's just kind of a general rule around here; it would be better to merge all of your thoughts into one big post than to spread them out over several days. I am very interested in hearing your reasoning for your lines of play in the video that you posted!
On the turn you play carpet of flowers, if you played it in yout first main phase, you can only use on the second main phase. Carpet of Flowers says:Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
"At the beginning of each of your main phases, if you haven't added mana to your mana pool with this ability this turn, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."
Carpets of Flowers checks to see if you used at the beginning of your main phase.
...pretty sure I wasn't telling him to cheat. If you're going to comment on my commentary of a taped match, please at least watch said match so that you know what I'm talking about. I don't think that's too much to ask.
There is no reason to wait on your Carpet of Flowers triggers. Aside from just generally being cleaner and giving you access to all of your mana at all times, Carpet of Flowers can't fight Daze and Spell Pierce if it hasn't triggered. Add to that the fact that if you can bounce and replay your Carpet of Flowers in the first main (like, say, with the mana from your Carpet of Flowers trigger...), then you can trigger it again in the second main giving you double the mana. That's how you turn that innocuous little enchantment into an explosive mana factory. There's a reason why people will go so far as to Force of Will it.
Thank you for your detailed comments, I really appreciate them. Here's, finally, my responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
GAME 1
My opening hand was: forest*2, mox, presence, gsz, witness, finks, my first draw is removal, my second is gsz. So T2 I have only three mana, no blue unless i remove my only blue spell with mox, and considerable redundency concerning enchantress effects (2+ witness)At this point playing around daze entails passing the turn doing nothing, and if I don't draw a land next turn I might have to do nothing next turn as well in order to play around daze. Two other considerations : Finks is too valuable in the matchup to lead with (given enchantress redundency), and if he uses daze this hampers his development somewhat too. So at this point I have every reason to play gsz into daze (I lead with gsz for obvious reasons). I then draw lands for the next two rounds and don't have to play into daze anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
I tend to see life as one of my most precious resources in this matchup. My current life total doesn't really matter; at each stage I try to loose as little life as possible (everything else being equal of course). If he later wants to burn a faerie before I can bounce it he's more than welcome to since that's 3 life I don't loose and if I have been careful with my life total up until that point I should be fine anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
Deck thinning is a marginal benefit. Postponing fetching so that your mana matches the cards you draw is a much more substantial benefit. I could have gone for a tropical to get both benefits but fetching non-basics against delver is bad. I could have postponed playing a land to possibly save a life but then I would have had less mana for possible soft counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
This is not something I do generally really (although this is certainly the impression one gets from the video) The benefit of activating them directly in your first mainphase can be substantial (e.g. You want to bounce your carpet, replay it and then activate it again, or you want to start bouncing your opponents stuff and he might end up with few islands in his second main). So I probably should have activated it on my first main phase on t6 g1 but didn't. The same is true g2.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
You are right, this was a mistake. Completely inconsequential though since I had other wild growths on my other land. I'm of course aware that this cannot be done sine the wild growth being cast is on the stack and is not at that point a permanent that can be returned with words of wind.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
My three turn clock could have been a two turn clock, this is true. He's completely at my mercy nonetheless though.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
GAME 2:
My opening hand here is misty, savanah, sprawl, argothian, faerie, removal*2, T1 I draw forest
T2 I draw faerie
It allows me to cantrip both seals t2 instead of just one, and the faerie will keep the delver away if he remains unflipped which saves me life(see above) Some delver players sideboard rough/tumble so it's not like I can be sure that the argothian will stay around. The play also avoids double daze on enc even though this is an unlikely turn of events.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
You can't use unexpected outcomes to argue that something is a misplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
Of course I'm playing around spell pierce (see above for the reasoning concerning g1).Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
I have another enchantress in hand which I play after the gsz. Getting a third is excessive. You have to realize that finks gives you something like 9 life or so, at least two mana and quite possibly one to two cards. (Unless he is extracted :()Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
I disagree. When you have an excess of cards bouncing chrome moxes is a reasonable way to pay for wow replacements. Also at this point in the game my opponent has no outs, and I have stopped caring.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
Not sure of what you are referring to here. When I bounce the mox my op is dead on time.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
It's on the slow side, but let's not exagerate. You have to remember that we are playing 40 min rounds and that this is the reason g2 times out.I think my pace is comparable to e.g. Chris Anderson's who took 35 min in his taped game (and made imho graver errors (e.g. g1. at 4.05 he doesn't bounce mother )). I dont have anything else to compare to. Perhaps you could have played this game faster with even fewer errors. Since I've never seen any of your matches I guess I'll have to take your word for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
I'm afraid I don't really see this. By my count my only errors involved carpet triggers. I generally played very safe. If I hadn't gotten the finks g2 for instance my op might well have burned me out. Now he was unable to. When a game is locked up I don't put very much energy into optimizing plays and if one really wants to find faults with my plays I guess one can look there but otherwise you haven't really pointed anything out that I feel I should have done differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
Nonetheless I'm grateful for you taking the time to volunteer detailed comments in an attempt to help me improve my game. Thanks.
My commentary on your slow/inefficient play has nothing do with the turn you've won, having a two turn clock rather than a three turn clock. My point is if you can't actually finish two games against a fast deck in 40 minutes, it's very unlikely that you'd be able to win a match 2-1 in 50 minutes. Had you been playing in a 50 minute match, it seems at least somewhat likely that your opponent could draw a number of Lightning Bolts and end game two before time expired, meaning that it is possible, due to your choices, that that match could have gone from win to draw. Against a slow deck it's fine to go slowly and cautiously and grind them out because they often don't have a way to surprise you and suddenly win, but decks with burn require that you play quickly enough that you can win a third game if necessary. If your pace of play is such that an average game (win or loss) is at or above, say, 14 minutes, then there are going to be many rounds that will become draws, rather than wins, simply because the opponent won one game and you ran out of time to beat him. It is precisely because this deck doesn't win quickly that you have to be as efficient as possible. As it stands, my average game hovers right around 12 minutes, meaning I have time to sideboard and still win two of three games if necessary. This is partially due to my speed with the deck, and partially because I get my opponent to concede fairly quickly by burying him with my board position. When you're staring down a board of 40 permanents and you have none, it's a pretty automatic decision to pick up your cards and try again.
I do think that your statement about Kitchen Finks says a lot about the way that you value that card. It's a great card, for sure. I sure thought so when I came up with it. But it's by no means a card that can't afford to be wasted. If my opponent uses a counterspell on a Kitchen Finks, I high-five myself in my head. If he then hits it with Surgical Extraction, I probably straight up high five him. And, as you said, you had Eternal Witness which means you could have picked up your Kitchen Finks next turn, played it the turn after, and bought yourself about 5 turns and all sorts of value as he struggles to deal with your chump blockers. In the mean time, if you draw a single land, your GSZ are out of Daze range and you've forced him into a bad position by using all of his tempo to get pretty much nowhere. But in my mind, Kitchen Finks is a nice card to have, but nowhere near as important as an Enchantress. If he wastes time and spells countering Kitchen Finks, you've pretty much won the game, at least with that hand. And, to the point, all this is irrelevant as you drew a third land with your second draw step, which means you could have easily waited a turn and played around the Daze that he very likely had.
The Seal of Removal on the Delver at 21 life is not correct. I will accept that you are generally cautious with your life total, and that is a good general position to take, but you can't have been more than two turns from locking up the game and in no danger of getting burned out. Pretty much the only way you could have lost that game was if he was able to burn your Cloud of Faeries to somehow stall you long enough for his creatures to get you. It would have been very, very tough for him, but you played into his outs. I win most of my games at a very low life total (as evidenced by my tournament reports), and it is precisely because of the way that I play that trying to race me is a bad proposition, since I will use that time you give me not disrupting me to build a board position that cannot be overcome.
As for the fetchland response, I'm not sure I follow. Once you start digging through your deck, you don't want to draw lands if you can help it. If you use your fetchland, that's a concrete step you take to ensure that you will have a lower likelyhood of drawing lands. It seems like a no-brainer. And while the deck thinning is small, in a deck where you draw every card, the deck thinning will absolutely matter. I have never had a problem getting the color of mana that I need, as this deck is only two colors and has tons of fetchlands and dual lands and even Utopia Sprawls and Chrome Moxes. A point that I didn't bring up because it didn't end up mattering is that you seemed to waaaaay overvalue access to blue mana in the way that you used your fetches and Utopia Sprawls. This deck should ideally play like a mono-green deck until you're just about to win the game, so I almost never fetch an Island before turn 3 or 4, and that's only if I haven't already hit a Utopia Sprawl. The reason for that is that almost every spell that matters to setup is green, so by fetching anything that can't make green mana, you are hampering your development. I almost never fetch out a Tropical Island as there is no good that can come of it, and pretty much the only reason it is in the deck is because I have to have some number of non-Misty Rainforest fetchlands and need to have access to blue mana at every potential point in the game, no matter the cost. If I could run 7 Misty Rainforest, I would run 0 Tropical Island.
I agree that you can't make choices based upon unlikely outcomes, but the fact remains you made a decision for that game and used your Cloud of Faeries to net a single mana, and because of that decision, you lost access to your Cloud of Faeries for the rest of the game. You had the means to protect your creatures and you chose a much riskier, much more aggressive play, and got punished for it, knowing full well that he had access to burn spells and had at least the potential to bring in Surgical Extraction (as most Delver decks have done at at least one point in the past). If you don't use your Cloud of Faeries, you still get to cantrip one of your Seal of Removals, and then you don't destroy your chances of drawing another Enchantress before you burn your second enchantment on merely cantripping. I would argue that if you're that worried about keeping a flipped Delver away, Seal of Removal is a much better choice than chump blocking with Cloud of Faeries, so that doesn't seem like good logic. I don't think that double cantripping on turn 2 is very good anyway, not when there's a good chance you'll draw more Enchantresses before you have to play your second Seal of Removal.
And I suppose I'll have to be hyper specific to clear up confusion. Game 2, entering into your turn 4. Your board is Island, Forest (Utopia Sprawl on Blue), Tropical Island, 3 Seal of Removal and Argothian Enchantress. Your hand is Chrome Mox, Savannah, Green Sun's Zenith, and you Draw a Carpet of Flowers. If you want to play around Spell Pierce that turn, simply make your land drop and GSZ for 2, which will leave you with two untapped mana. Then, if he doesn't counter that, you can cast your Carpet of Flowers and get two draw triggers. If he counters that, you still get your draws and can continue to go off. If not, you have all the mana in the world. Instead, you chose to play the Carpet of Flowers first and drew an Argothian Enchantress, which means you were out of enchantments and had to use your GSZ for a Kitchen Finks. We'll never know what the top card was, but there's at least some chance that it could have been another enchantment, which would have put you way ahead. It's small plays like this where you clearly didn't even consider playing your GSZ first that basically cost you an entire turn when you could have further developed your board position. If he has Rough/Tumble there, then you lose two Argothian Enchantress, but you've also drawn at least two cards there, as well as him losing his Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer (and potentially his unflipped Delver of Secrets). Which is the reason why U/R Delver doesn't bother with Rough/Tumble in the first place....
Lastly, and this is perhaps the most important point, there is no such thing as an excessive number of Enchantresses, and even if there were, that number absolutely is not three. With every Enchantress you play, the odds of you fizzling go down exponentially, and every enchantment you draw becomes way less profitable to counter. The only way you beat counterspells and removal (especially super removal like Rough/Tumble) is by drawing as many cards as you can and running your opponent out of cards. And, all that aside, the way that you win quickly is by getting down as many Enchantresses as quickly as you can. The only games that I've won on turn 4 have all involved getting down three Enchantresses by turn 3, and the quicker you win, the less likely it is that you will lose to random stuff. My point is precisely that you'd earmarked that GSZ for a Kitchen Finks from about turn 2 onward (no other line of plays make sense) which is playing not to lose rather than playing to win. What's more, if you had played how I'd suggested, it would have been impossible for your opponent to touch any of your creatures, much less hit them with Surgical Extraction. That's a game that you should have won easily but instead were forced to time out on. I mean, the guy brought in Surgical Extraction! That card shouldn't even be relevant if you're playing correctly. If you had run GSZ after GSZ out there, he would have run out of counterspells before you ran out of Enchantresses, and your Kitchen Finks would still be safe in your deck to gain infinite life when he had no board and no way of using Surgical Extraction on it. It's far more likely that he has Lighting Bolt than Rough/Tumble, so it doesn't make sense to play around a 2-of SB card, particularly since you weren't playing against RUG Delver.
You can play however you like, and if you truly don't agree with my reasoning, that's just fine. I will ask you to at least consider all that I've said, if for no other reason than that I'm generally more quick and efficient with my lines of play than you are. You tank on plays that are automatic for me, and you end up thinking yourself out of making the right play. You don't have to play like me, but the quicker your games go, the easier your tournaments will be. There is absolutely no reason to ever be inefficient with this deck other than laziness, and if you allow yourself to be lazy when the game is already won, you will find laziness creeping into close games and at inopportune moments. This deck excels at winning tight games because no deck can out-grind this one, and no deck has the tools to stall the game like this one does. The trick is knowing when to change gears, and once you've got that down, there isn't a fair deck in the format that can beat this one.
Thanks, thanks a lot. Even though I've already had some success with the deck, I feel that I understand it better now. I won a tournament last week with it, and I will be playing the deck a lot over the weekend, so I will most likely post again fairly soon.
Glad I could help! I'm 95% going to be playing this deck at SCG St. Louis Sunday so I should have more to report, though I'll be going out of town directly after so it might be a little delayed. But I'm super excited, I think the metagame is shifting pretty decisively away from fast combo and more towards Force of Will, which should make this deck an excellent choice.
Hi all,
I finished 3th/28 with Top8 and win a Taïga with this list:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Cloud of Faeries
2 Cloudstone Curio
1 Words of Wind
2 Gaia's touch
4 Abundant Growth
4 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Seal of Removal
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 Puca's Mischief (random card, missing Kitchen)
SB: 1 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 City of Solitude
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Blind Obedience
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
Next step:
- 2 Gaia's touch MD
+ 2 City of solitude MD
- 2 City of solitude SB
- 1 Deathrite Shaman SB
+ 3 Trinisphere SB (VS combo like Omniclash/Ant, Trinisphere is not a problem for this deck to get infinite mana or storm)
- 1 Puca's Mischief
+ 1 Kitchen (finally obtained)
As I play a version with Curio, sanctum, Emrakul and Tendrils, I would to ask you: Do you want to have my report? Otherwise, I will come back after winning others tournaments until I convince you about my version :cool:.
Regards,
Dihensoeur
Oh c'moon, sure we want it :D
By the way, i don't understand really well the function of Cloudstone Curio. You play for example an Utopia sprawl, return Abundant growth, replay infinite times, got enough mana to hit with Tendrils of agony or to play Emrakul, the aeons torn? Is that correct?
Ok I will post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanith
For Curio, yes you can play an enchantement to get another enchantement to draw a lot or only Abundant Growth if you have no Argothian/Presence. But you get infinite mana easily with Faeries (2 faeries with 2lands with only one enchant land is enough), you can have infinite storm with one faerie and an argothian (2 lands with 2 enchant land = 4 mana), etc...There are lot of trix with Curio. You move easily enchant land from a tapped forest to an untapped forest then tap it to remove all enchant land to another untapped forest... (and you can change color from utopia to get black) so have 8-9 spells to kill with Tendrils is very easy.
Report:
Game1: (TempoTresh)
R1: Mul to 5 to have a Delver T1, I leave one mana for Daze for each spell, when 4 life I go combo=>Tendrils
R2: He keeps a hand with full counter, he plays nothing during 4 turns except land, I do the same. When I have 5 mana (to avoid SpellPierce), I start to play spells in order to consume FoW. He finally attacks me with delver + nimble, I go combo tendrils with 5 spells to deals 12 and gain 12 lifes, it's not enough to kill him but I'm safe with +12 lifes. I use Words of wind to lock him to avoid stifle then Witness for Tendrils and win.
Game2: (EsperBlade Shaman)
R1: Turn4 I can put Emrakul (sanctum on the battlefield + seal, and faeries+Emrakul in hand), but, on the draw, he plays clique vendilion, see my hand and the sanctum on the battlefield, he suspects a dirty trick, counts mana and sees yes yes I will put Emrakul ^^ so he targets Emrakul (snif!). He plays Liliana and Jace, I keep Argothian via Dryad. I play tendrils with 6 spells, then lock with Words of wind, he gives up.
R2: Very quickly, curio => infinite spell (one faeries+Argothian) then Tendrils.
Game3: (NicFit)
R1: Pernicious in the beginning, I try to put others enchant but I draw 6 lands...then he puts Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, no seal => Game Over.
R2: T5 or T6 I put Emrakul (thanks to his Veteran :D)
R3: Very quick too, I play Curio => infinite mana and draw => win.
Game4: (Miracle counterTop)
R1: Only one land, I enchant it with many enchant lands => E.E to 1, no land and jace => Game Over.
R2: I play many spells (city, witness, city again...), he counters with counterspell+snapcaster. He topdecks 2 times Entreat the Angels (withou brainstorm or other spell) => 3 tokens but I succeed to put a words of wind, then curio and fearies, He gives up.
R3: I was very stressed (lack of experience) and scared by his counter spells, I play nothing and leave a Jace instead of play many faeries to attack it and/or consume his counter spells...I need more experience. I learned the lesson.
3-1 : I'm 3th (because 70% OMW,OGW I don't know how works this but it's good :D)
Game5: (monoR painter)
He proposes me draw to go together to Top8, I accept.
Top8: (NicFit)
R1: The same player as Game3. I try Words of wind but it was not a good idea, he puts too many cards and play GSZ => Ruric Thar, the Unbowed...
R2: I don't do the same error, curio => Tendrils
R3: He tries many discard, but I have too ways to combo => Finally it was Faeries+sanctum => Emrakul.
Top4: (OmniClash)
It's totally impossible to win (I have more chance with ANT). Even Gaddock (wish=>bounce), even sliver under Show&Tell (wish=>Stifle).
I finished 3th and got a Taïga.
It was the first time I played this deck in a real tournament. I did many errors from stress and lack of experience.
New modification:
MD
- 2 gaia's touch (it's fun but finally useless)
+ 2 City of solitude (to be safe)
SB
- 2 City of solitude (go MD)
- 1 Deathrite shaman (useless)
+ 3 Trinisphere (need to be tested) : VS OmniClash/ANT. I can combo under Trinisphere so it's not a real problem for me but for Omniclash, this is its worst nightmare.
For information:
There were at least: 4 OmniClash, 2 ANT, many TT, many BUG, many EsperBlade, 1 MUD, 1 NicFit, 1 Merkfolks, 1 miracle, 1 Painter, 1 D&T, 1 elves (I don't know for others players).
Thanks for the answer, and nice report and congrats for your taiga.
Its the first version I see running with Tendrils of agony and seems interesting.
Against Omniclash, shouldn't Elephant grass be a house? Ok, you can play creatures 'cause your opponent finds lot of bouncers, but with words of wind returning lands and elephant grass lock should work?
SOrry if the answer "no" is obvious, but there maybe there is something I don't see.
Omniclash has many kills: Maniac laboratory, Emrakul and Release the Ants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanith
He plays Show&Tell, put Omniscience then Enter the infinite, put a Omniscience or another Enter the infinite on the top of the library, wish to get Release the Ants and deals infinite damage from clash (because Enter the infinite = 12manas and few decks can top a card with more cost).
So an Elephant grass is totally useless, even he playes Emrakul, he gets an additional turn and can easily pay 2 from grass.
He needs two lands (a sol land+ one island) to play show&tell. Succeed to play Words of wind with a drawer (argothian/abundant growth) to bounce his lands before he gets 3manas...It's impossible ^_^ except you have a big big luck and he has the worst unluck of the world!