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Like Chatto I see the need for faster killing. Given that I run creature pox my need will be fulfilled by negators, which I got yesterday by mail.
4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator
4 smallpox
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 pox
2 duress
18 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
3 darkblast
4 innocent blood
4 dark Ritual
I may add a fourth Darkblast to the sideboard, to help clear the way for the negators
this looks like a really fun list hardcore. i may give it a spin after the course of my exploration of a discard pox deck i am working on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
for those of you who use the graveyard heavily how do you deal with the graveyard hate people board in?
also hardcore, what do you board in against control and combo with that list and sideboard?
My sideboard is massively against combo.
4 thorn of Amethyst
4 phyrexian Revoker
4 leyline of the void
3 perish
Note: the SB is untested and not tuned yet.
I am however quite certain the direction is correct;
The deck can easily handle creature threats, except for a hard cast Emrakul! In the later case I will rely on speed to win before that happen.
Perish is possible to do without. Diabolic edict could be a better choice (given that darn Emrakul).
Unlike, for example Dredge, the game plan rarely revolve around the graveyard to a degree that make hate crippling. It is like boarding in chains of mephistofeles versus Esperblade and expect an auto win; they just quit finesse around with cameos, play batterskull and win.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
For pox it means not playing Bloodghast from the graveyard, but hard cast it. Like creatures normally should.:laugh:
But watch out for RIP + Helm combo!
I'd rather go the non-graveyard route. If you run a Pox.dec that barely uses the yard; i.e. No Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam; You can defeat decks that actually side in GY hate since the hate becomes dead. That's Virtual Card Advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
My decklist uses only Nether Spirit from the Yard and the board has Tomby if I find my foe doesn't run GY hate game 2. They most likely won't.
For things that can kill GY hate in mono black, you've only got a tiny handful of options.
Gate to Phyrexia: Conditional artifact hate that shows up early.
Duress: For non-Leyline GY hate
Creature GY hate? DRS, Yixlid Jailer etc: Pox doesn't care, they're gonna sac it anyway lol.
Leyline of the Void, Planar Void, Enchantment GY hate: Ratchet Bomb and a Surgical Extraction on the Pithing Needle/Artifact kill on the GY hate you made them discard. aka VERY HARD to deal with.
Again, Pox shouldn't need the yard to get its job done. It's neither Loam (unless you want it to be) or a Dredge based deck. That and I hate dredging with it without SDT which then wants fetchlands which then makes you soft to stifle and well... It's a nasty can of worms... :eek:
I agree! I just deny them land and/ or cards in hand. Just because I play LotL doesn't mean I depend on the GY. The only time I play LotL is when I really need the Wasteland to destroy a land to keep my opponent off balance or to get a Factory back. Dredging is another thing I rarely do. Other than that, DRS depends on the GY, but backed up with Discard, 4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Pulses (along with 3 Deeds in the board) I don't see any GY sticks for long...Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
I was thinking of dropping the Cursed Scroll and adding Nether Void again. Just to supplement the 'Denial Plan'. Landing one after killing of land and hand is just brutal. It does bring me back to 8 Wincons.
DRS can just give me a little edge over my opponent to keep the upper-hand. Later on it can use all spells as damage-source. Mind you, DRS can do damage even with an Ensnaring Bridge on the table, which in my opinion is pretty sweet
:-)
yeah, you guys decks seem to have some resiliency against gy hate, but some of the loam pox builds seem to really use them a lot, so I was wondering how they dealt with it. I try to use enough graveyard to be helpful but not enough to tempt them to use graveyard hate. Also Leyline of sanctity in the Show and Tell decks is showing up so much now it has gone from being a fairly easy win with all the pox sac effects and discard, to being unfavorable to a low creature pox deck like mine. it is another argument for trying an aggro pox build like hardcore's sometime. or going back to a more land-destructy build. i do love pithing needle on the board for pox a lot though.
i wonder if sideboarding Fleshbag Marauder would help any against show and tell, or whether it would even work or be useful for the slot in general.
Here is what i have been running recently. Shrieking Affliction has made me feel like discard pox is more viable than it was. Having 8 rack effects goes a long way in adding consistency to it. I find it has a pretty good midgame and typically comes from behind to win. Whereas I used to have trouble doing enough damage to finish them off before whatever soft lock i had on them dissolved, now a big pox and 3-6 damage a turn in rack effects plus whatever spirit/ghast/scroll/factory damage may occur.
4 pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana
4 innocent blood
4 inquisition of Kozeliek
4 hymn to tourach
4 raven's crime
4 the rack
4 shrieking affliction
1 nether spirit
1 cursed scroll
1 bloodghast
4 urborg
4 mishra's factory
2 dakmor salvage
12 swamp
I do like the idea of boarding in Tombstalker. That is clever.
Maybe you guys are right. Dystopia against leyline. But without discard against counters it may be hard to cast and maverick can tutor up a cat to hate it unless you have a sac effect at the ready.
@beez, LoS is not a card that is particularly good vs pox. The odds are not great that they will have it in their hand at start. If so, what can they do? Take a Mulligan? That is perfectly all right when you want a leyline of the void in play vs Dredge. It almost guarantee a win. LoS, otoh, is to avoid being target of discard spells and an awful way to achieve that.
After all by boarding the enchantment they already weaken their deck for you. Then, because of its high casting cost, the SnT player is quite committed to doing a Mulligan if he fail to have it at start. As you can see that is a free hymn for you. If he was on the play you can respond with swamp + dark Ritual + POX to reduce him to two card in hand, no lands and a useless enchantment in play. Oh, and at 13 life, or less.
Ps. Dystopia sucks. Get The Abyss instead. Or sphere of resistance.
I did sideboard Dystopias but, when I made the deck Maverick was alot more popular overall, and locally it was just ridiculous up here, the local metagame at the time would sometimes have a Maverick deck in the room for every 4-5 players, and at an Open back in July 2012, there was as much Maverick as there was RUG, it was just absurd!
@ Hardcore: Dystopia sucks indeed (I had it in my SB, but never used it), but only because of the cumulative upkeep. It does destroy permanents, so thats pretty good. Other than that, the Abyss is far better against creature-based decks and it doesn't have cumulative upkeep :-)
Another card to consider, if you play Bg Loam, is Golgari Charm: three effects in one card. Pretty good if you ask me.
Yeah they pretty much do have to mill to it and they need to save Forces for sac effects and the edicts i bring in addition to the innocent bloods in the main board. And since the only white permanent they would have is the leyline and no way to recast it, a dystopia for one turn could be all i need with my more discard build. I do see the drawbacks as you explain them.
Distopia is probably a bit slow for elves though isn't it?
Dystopia doesn't destroy permanents - it forces players to sacrifice permanents. Which is, coincidentally, very important. It also doesn't target, unlike The Abyss which does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Additionally, I like how you're all saying the cards sucks and to just play The Abyss when both are completely different in functionality from the other. One hits non-creature permanents, which is easily more of a problem for mono-colored decks than ones that opt to run green.
The cost of Dystopia is also more attractive than the four-mana requirement for The Abyss in an attrition-based war, which is honestly much more prohibitive than playing Dystopia and paying three to five life over the course of three to five turns.
@ Hollywood, about non-targeting saccing permanents instead of destroying them; my bad, I knew that one. It just came out the wrong way (had my birthdayparty last night) In a Mono Coloured Pox deck this can be of great value, indeed, but when splashing Green like I do there are better options. That is one reason why I think it is bad card choice. The second one is the lifeloss, as mentioned before. I understand that it uses are broader and you can land it faster, but again IMHO those arguments only stick when playing mono-coloured.
@ beez: against Elves I would use Perish. The sheer speed of the deck makes Dystopia too slow and after the boardsweep you should have enough to keep them under your thumb. I know it effects all green creatures, so to me it can be a kind of shitty as well.
Dystopia is too slow in probably all situations that matter (unless you can cast it on turn one with a Ritual) A show and tell deck will be ready to go off at the time he must sacrifice his leyline. Hence my advice to just play pox effects (you don't want give your opponent time walks, right?)
Abyss or Ensnaring bridge. Whatever works with Show and tell. It isa different kind of answer for LoS.