[Deck] Spring Tide

I really like this deck, and I've been playing extensively with the list posted on the first page for about a month and a half now (I'm in the process of adjusting the wishboard to my meta, though). However, there is one problem I have with this deck: what do you do about Pyrostatic Pillar out of the sb in Goblins (or any other deck running red)? If you don't have a Force of Will, you basically lose. I know you can Cunning Wish for Echoing Truth, but after that you a) have to go off the same turn you use Truth and b) you have to get Cunning Wish first, and then get another one to win. While the first part is not so difficult, the second part is a bit of a bummer since most of the cards you have to find a Wish with (assuming you don't have one in hand) cost two mana or less and will therefore get you in trouble with the Pillar. Furthermore, against a deck like Goblins, the extra turns it takes for you to pull all this off allow them to win. Is there some sort of solution? BEB in the sideboard as a two- or three-of to fight it? Goblins and Pillar are fairly common in my meta, and having one come down on the opposite side of the table on turn two puts some serious brakes on my ability to win quickly.

Maybe you should bring this Echoing Truth in after game 1? It's easier to find one with 4 Merchant Scrolls than with 3 Cunning Wishes. And when combing out it acts as a Snap to legions of your faeries so it's still useful then.

i think you should just run to have 12 mana and palinchron.

4 island and 2 high tide are perfect. just run for it

infinite mana, infinite spell, you can stroke or freeze. and 2 high tide are easy to have (4 mystical tutor,4 merchant scroll) the only problem is palinchron.. someone said intuition? :look:

@Pillar: Scroll up an elemental blast and whack it. BEB: now with 100% more permanent-destroying power.

@Palinchron: This is an awful, awful idea. Firstly, Mystical Tutor is garbage. Secondly, Palinchron itself is horrid, since it is 100% useless when you don't have two Tides, or four lands, etc., while the current untapping spells are not.

I personally just side out 1 Snap for 1 Truth w/e I play Goblins or anything else I expect pillar out of.

1x Truth, 4x Scroll, and 3x Cunning Wish (Capsize) should be enough, and I dont really want more than 2 Snaps in that match-up anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ray D 3

I personally just side out 1 Snap for 1 Truth w/e I play Goblins or anything else I expect pillar out of.

1x Truth, 4x Scroll, and 3x Cunning Wish (Capsize) should be enough, and I dont really want more than 2 Snaps in that match-up anyway.

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This has worked fine for me as well. Basically whenever I'm expecting creature kill I'll side out a Snap. Mogg Fanatics can be bad for you when you're trying to bounce a Faerie [sad face]

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Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man

This has worked fine for me as well. Basically whenever I'm expecting creature kill I'll side out a Snap. Mogg Fanatics can be bad for you when you're trying to bounce a Faerie [sad face]

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Yeah, I've come to realize that. I usually keep the Snap in, though, since I want the untap effect and I can always use it on one of their guys (in the case of Gobs). I have tried the Echoing Truth thing and it helps a lot, but I think I want to swap out a Mystical Tutor in the SB for another Echoing Truth...that way I can board in one and have access to it eight different ways (draw it - 1, Wish for it - 3, Merchant Scroll for it - 4), so I'll almost always hit it when I need it.

*Wanders off to commence testing*

my biggist problem w/ this deck is against sligh, and they bring in Scald Game 2, what the heck do i do, bouncing it usually gets me killed, cause i have to tap to much to wish out a truth or snap, it like 1R deal at least 5 damage to target opponit.

1. That is why we don't strictly netdeck.
2. That is why we run some Blue Elemental Blasts when we see red decks floating around.

I think we've all learned something today.

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

Yeah, I've come to realize that. I usually keep the Snap in, though, since I want the untap effect and I can always use it on one of their guys (in the case of Gobs). I have tried the Echoing Truth thing and it helps a lot, but I think I want to swap out a Mystical Tutor in the SB for another Echoing Truth...that way I can board in one and have access to it eight different ways (draw it - 1, Wish for it - 3, Merchant Scroll for it - 4), so I'll almost always hit it when I need it.

*Wanders off to commence testing*

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If you have 3 mana to cast wish, you should have 3 mana to cast Capsize, so I really don't think that would be necessary.

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Originally Posted by MattH

1. That is why we don't strictly netdeck.
2. That is why we run some Blue Elemental Blasts when we see red decks floating around.

I think we've all learned something today.

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LOL
Well said.

what does this deck take out to board in the grids, disrupts, and freeze?

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Originally Posted by Ray D 3

Common side-ins/outs:

-1 Snap/+1 Echoing Truth (expecting pyroclastic pillar, chalice, etc.)
-1 Snap, -2 Sleight of Hand/+3 Defense Grid (Thresh/control)
-1 Turnabout, -2 Sleight of Hand/+3 Disrupt (black disruption)

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It's written a few posts higher.

Can this deck be built without FoW, Fetches, and Cunning Wish? I'm broke now after making my T2 deck.

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Originally Posted by MattH

1. That is why we don't strictly netdeck.
2. That is why we run some Blue Elemental Blasts when we see red decks floating around.

I think we've all learned something today.

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Hydroblast seems better than BEB, because it can be used to improve storm-count, due to it's ability to target non-red spells and permanents.

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Originally Posted by Jujuhawk

Can this deck be built without FoW, Fetches, and Cunning Wish? I'm broke now after making my T2 deck.

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Sort of, but it will be pretty lame. Fetches are in the deck to thin lands out (which you don't want to draw a lot of while comboing off) and to provide shuffle effects for Brainstorm. Wish is there to fetch Brain Freeze, because it's really not something you want to see while you're in the midst of going off, and the Wish also gives you access to a toolbox in your sb that helps if you can't get the card you need through draw power alone. There have been times where I've almost fizzled but saved myself by wishing for a Meditate / Turnabout. As for Forces...well...they aren't essential, but it's combo protection and makes the deck a lot stronger. Of all of the cards you listed, the FoW are probably the most expendable, relatively speaking.

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Originally Posted by Jujuhawk

Can this deck be built without FoW, Fetches, and Cunning Wish? I'm broke now after making my T2 deck.

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Replace FoW with muddle the mixture and that also surves as a bad cunning wish. The deck will not be as powerful but still quite strong as I went 4-2 in a 60 man tourny fighting through 3 gro.

You can run the deck without Force of Will with no problem, especially in relatively underpowered metas. The point of Fetches is synergy with Brainstorm more than it is to thin your deck, so your Brainstorms will be a lot worse and you'll draw 1/4% more lands or something stupid like that. Overall it shouldn't hurt you too much, but feel out the Brainstorms there, they're probably not very good without the Fetches. You can probably play the deck without either of those.

Cunning Wish is a different story all together. You can't really play the deck without it. I suppose you could throw a couple of Brain Freezes maindeck, but you'd be losing a lot of versatility. No ability to Wish for Turnabout or Meditate, not to mention no Stroke of Genius for the win, and you're going to lose occasionally to things that you could Echoing Truth or Capsize. And you lose the ability to go infinite with Capsize, which wins a lot more games than you might think.

If you do skip out on the Cunning Wish, and you need to get rid of Force, replace it with Muddle, and throw in a couple of maindeck Brain Freezes and bring the Meditate and Turnabout back to the main. You can board the Echoing Truth and probably a Words of Wisdom to be tutored for with Merchant Scroll of Muddle post-board. I'd be tempted to include a single Capsize to Merchant Scroll up, but that's just because I'm addicted to it.

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Originally Posted by Alfred

Hydroblast seems better than BEB, because it can be used to improve storm-count, due to it's ability to target non-red spells and permanents.

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Sure, it can target nonred stuff, but it doesn't actually do anything to them if they aren't red. Free storm, sure, but...why not just play another draw spell?

@Lego Army Man: Well, if you drop the fetches and add Muddle the Mixture, you still have Merchant Scroll to act as a shuffle effect as well, so you have eight shuffle effects. Probably not enough for four Brainstorm, though. And I don't think Muddle the Mixture would be that hot here because it doesn't increase storm count and eats up three mana to do it. Would maindecking Mystical Tutor be a better choice? I'm just theorizing here...

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

Would maindecking Mystical Tutor be a better choice? I'm just theorizing here...

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I was purely theorizing as well. I wouldn't play without Cunning Wishes unless I absolutely had to. Mystical Tutor is a possibility, but I'd always hesitate to play lots of card disadvantage. You should probably just run 8 Merchant Scrolls and hope no one notices. AK could be fun, but I was just mentioning to Bane how I just like to draw lots of cards, and never really care what I do with them.

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Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man

I wouldn't play without Cunning Wishes unless I absolutely had to.

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QFT. I didn't think of AK...that might work out nicely, since you tend to see a lot of your deck when you go off, so the chances of you hitting more than one are pretty high. Of course, Cunning Wish trumps them all any day, but if you can't afford them...*shrugs*

Trading ftw? Type 2 is overrated anyway.