[Deck] bUrg Tempo

This card, Identity Nemisis, seems like a big deal. I am more of a card player than a deck builder or a metagamer but this seems to me like something worth investigating.

Thank you,

Edman

Actually I will replace 2 goyfs istantly with this new guy. It still have the ability to chumpblock vs tribal, killing most of the things in the format also, but its evasive giving, probably, a six turn clock, its hard to kill like mongoose but its not graveyard dependent, so no relic, surgical ecc... I don't think other decks will ever side again grave hate vs us just for 3 DRS and 3/4 mongoose. Its blue, we can pitch it to force.

Turn 1: Fetch to U sea, Deathrite Shaman
Turn 2: Fetch to Taiga, Identity Nemesis

We can put in the 4th DRS for an increased chance to do this start. Tapping out on turn 2 can be a problem vs combo, but RUG delver also taps out on turn 2 most of the time playing goyf and goyf rarely is bigger than 3/4 vs combo (istant, sorcery, land).

Except Merfolk, other existing decks will have a hard time casting this guy vs us because 3cc is a lot. If this card will be played a lot we can maybe replace Submerge with Golgari Charm or E.Explosives, eventually.

My 2 cents

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Originally Posted by Jax-

Actually I will replace 2 goyfs istantly with this new guy. It still have the ability to chumpblock vs tribal, killing most of the things in the format also, but its evasive giving, probably, a six turn clock, its hard to kill like mongoose but its not graveyard dependent, so no relic, surgical ecc... I don't think other decks will ever side again grave hate vs us just for 3 DRS and 3/4 mongoose. Its blue, we can pitch it to force.

Turn 1: Fetch to U sea, Deathrite Shaman
Turn 2: Fetch to Taiga, Identity Nemesis

We can put in the 4th DRS for an increased chance to do this start. Tapping out on turn 2 can be a problem vs combo, but RUG delver also taps out on turn 2 most of the time playing goyf and goyf rarely is bigger than 3/4 vs combo (istant, sorcery, land).

Except Merfolk, other existing decks will have a hard time casting this guy vs us because 3cc is a lot. If this card will be played a lot we can maybe replace Submerge with Golgari Charm or E.Explosives, eventually.

My 2 cents

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If we are going to play that card ourselves, we do not want Golgari Charm or EE in our SBs. Stick with more REBs in the SB. They are excellent verus Merfolk and can counter that new nasty creature.

Psst...do not tell it to anyone but we are the only good tempo deck that can cast the new bomb creature at a reliable base without making our mana base or mana curve worse. I have tested the card all night with proxies and will come up with a new bUrg deck list after the testings have finished. I plan to make a decklist for you that you can use at BOM Paris. Therefore I must predict the metagame and the right configuration of the deck. As I won't attend the event due to private reasons I hope you will do well there with my new list..hold on a couple of days until "bUrg 2.0" is there ;-)

Nah nah sasan i think uwr delver can use nemesis really good to. Except with the equipments.;)

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Originally Posted by Pdingo

Nah nah sasan i think uwr delver can use nemesis really good to. Except with the equipments.;)

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Ok that is right although I do not call UWR Delver a (good) "tempo" deck as it has so much anti synergy concerning the tempo plan. But it has good results. With Shaman we can still cast every spell with only two lands in play. UWR has a really high mana curve that leads to a land count up to 20 in some builds.

Yes that's a little bit true. But those player who go to 20 lands they have no idea about tempo..

To be honest those decks are candidates to play Identity Nemesis:

- Death Blade
- Merfolk
- UWR Delver

...and perhaps...

- We.



The above list needs also a little more insight. Not all these decks will play that card as a playset. Some of them might choose not play it at all. Think about it:

- Death Blade has some problems in the combo MU and it remains to be seen if they will ever replace their Cliques and Snapcaster Mages with that creature and make their combo MU even worse. A resolved Batterskull is nearly always the win so I think Death Blade will not play that card to a high amount. Chances that they will play Identity Nemesis: below 50 %
- UWR lacks a good finisher, therefore they need the clock of the angel token of Geist. It remains to be seen if they will abandon Geist and play that guy. On the other hand it has evasion. It is a 50-50 chance that UWR will play that guy.
- Merfolk: Well that is a no-brainer. Chances that they play that guy: 90 %.

- bUrg: ...... we will see.....hold on ;-)

Identity Nemesis is way better than Geist. Geist is good only with a clear board, while Identity is always good, if you cast Geist you just have a 2/2 hexproof that MAYBE will strike for six damage the next turn, if you cast Identity you have a 3/1 protection from everything that can block Goyf, Goose, Geist, Batterskull, everything without flying or protection from blue and can still swing for three the next turn unblocked.

Oh and Lord of Atlantis pump it too.

True points, I can only see that UWR players have some problems with Geist due to the cc3 mana costs but say that they need that beatstick as a end game bomb. So we will see but I said that is probable that they will play it. Let us see how the discussion in their thread will continue. Personally I will let the UWR experts discuss that with themselves and try to concentrate how/if the card can improve bUrg :-P

And we still need the official English translation of Identity Nemesis. If it has a come to play trigger (wording: when) and not a replacement effect (wording: as) the card is not that good.

Maverick and D&T match ups are drastically improved with Identity. It kill every creatures they have while giving them a six turn clock (or less, with bolts). It can block and kill Crusader so they must have a MoR protecting from blue for attack (but we have bolts, and decay for MoR).

Vs D&T our stifles become even more powerful because we just need to counter their wasteland and reach 3 lands in play for cast Identity and win.
We also have Delvers, DRSs and Bolts, a lot of evasive damage.
Tarmogoyf can be hit by a StP or blocked with MoR or Crusader or removed with Fiend Hunter.

We can remove Submerges and Dread of Night from our sideboard so we have more slots vs control and combo.
I think we should play Null Rod. It stops E.E. , Top, LED, Petal, Equipments.

I agree that Dread of Night and Compost are not needed anymore IF we can include Nemesis in our decks. But Submerge? The card is a staple even with Nemesis as it clears the board, gives the opponent a dead draw step and lets them invest mana - sometimes you can activate Submerge before the opponent's fetch and remove the creature. I think that Submerge will not get the axe. It serves as a protection suite for Nemesis in grindier (green) matchups, too.

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Originally Posted by Jax-

Maverick and D&T match ups are drastically improved with Identity. It kill every creatures they have while giving them a six turn clock (or less, with bolts). It can block and kill Crusader so they must have a MoR protecting from blue for attack (but we have bolts, and decay for MoR).

Vs D&T our stifles become even more powerful because we just need to counter their wasteland and reach 3 lands in play for cast Identity and win.
We also have Delvers, DRSs and Bolts, a lot of evasive damage.
Tarmogoyf can be hit by a StP or blocked with MoR or Crusader or removed with Fiend Hunter.

We can remove Submerges and Dread of Night from our sideboard so we have more slots vs control and combo.
I think we should play Null Rod. It stops E.E. , Top, LED, Petal, Equipments.

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I agree, this card is the 2nd comming of Tarmogoyf, being an unblockable, indestructable equipment bearer for 3 that can value block vs all non-Tarmogoyf creatures in the format is pretty absurd. Pretty sure it's safe to say that Geist of Saint Traft just hit the rubbish bin and "awkward" /u decks like U/W/R and U/B/R are more viable.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

I agree, this card is the 2nd comming of Tarmogoyf, being an unblockable, indestructable equipment bearer for 3 that can value block vs all non-Tarmogoyf creatures in the format is pretty absurd. Pretty sure it's safe to say that Geist of Saint Traft just hit the rubbish bin and "awkward" /u decks like U/W/R and U/B/R are more viable.

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This. But let us do some more testings ;-) And I hope bUrg is not in your list of awkward /u decks.

Who, from this thread, played a tournament with bUrg Tempo and what are its results?

We had two Top 16s during the SCG open and I had a Top 8 on a German tournament (45 players) in recent times. Other than that I cannot remember other good placements. But do not think that the deck is underperforming, it is a (still) unknown deck that not that many players play. Even on TCDecks bUrg has not its own category.

Im not new to tempo decks strategy as I played RUG for a while but I had some difficulties with the manabase of this deck. I tested a standard bUrg list with 4 wastelands, 8 fetch, 2 tropicals, 2 seas, 1 volcanic, 1 taiga and 3 shamans. When I played against DnT (a deck with 4 wastelands and 4 ports) my manabase seemed too tragile. Is there any way to incorporate 4 shamans in the list? Is it possible to play 4 shamans and 4 nimble mongoose in the same list? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Rosy

Im not new to tempo decks strategy as I played RUG for a while but I had some difficulties with the manabase of this deck. I tested a standard bUrg list with 4 wastelands, 8 fetch, 2 tropicals, 2 seas, 1 volcanic, 1 taiga and 3 shamans. When I played against DnT (a deck with 4 wastelands and 4 ports) my manabase seemed too tragile. Is there any way to incorporate 4 shamans in the list? Is it possible to play 4 shamans and 4 nimble mongoose in the same list? Thanks.

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As a starter it is really hard to figure out when to fetch which land. It needs training. bUrg is a real complex deck. First of all, I would play with two Volcanics as having "real" duals and not only fetches is good for the matchups where Port/Waste can easily cut you off one colour (here red if you only play with Taiga/Volcanic).

The mana base of the deck can be challenge, but I encourage you to play with my blueprint list and keep trying.

Life from the Loam helps versus DnT to protect your mana base.

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Originally Posted by Sasan

You mean UWR Delver/Patriot? It is only 3 coloured but I can honestly say that bUrg is superior as playing Swords to Plowshares instead of Lightning Bolts is a contradiction of the nature of a tempo deck. Swords gives the opponent more time due to the life gain. You have less reach without Bolts. The mana curve is higher (that is why they play more lands). All these things let me come to the conclusion that Patriot is not as good as bUrg from the perspective of pure tempo and efficency. It is lacking the awesome Shaman, too. Without Decays the removal suite is not flexible enough.


But as Patriot as had good finishs recently, it is a viable tempo deck. But not the best one in my opinion.

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No, I meant this bUwg

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Originally Posted by Sasan

We had two Top 16s during the SCG open and I had a Top 8 on a German tournament (45 players) in recent times. Other than that I cannot remember other good placements. But do not think that the deck is underperforming, it is a (still) unknown deck that not that many players play. Even on TCDecks bUrg has not its own category.

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There was 1 1st placer recently here in the Philippines (60 something man tourney). He sported the 4 DRS 4 Goose 4 Delver creature suite.

I won 3 Tournaments in Switzerland with bUrg and once second place;)

ah that is great :-)