[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

Beat UWR Delver 3 times at SCG last week, once in Top 8 even. Multiple Massacres in the board and sticking a Xantid Swarm make the match up easier. I'd rather play UWR Delver than RUG.

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Boards in Massacre, also boards in Xantid Swarm.

On top of that, what is with people siding in Xantid Swarm against decks with removal/Lightning Bolt?

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Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

Beat UWR Delver 3 times at SCG last week, once in Top 8 even. Multiple Massacres in the board and sticking a Xantid Swarm make the match up easier. I'd rather play UWR Delver than RUG.

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Do you board Swarm in even against a deck playing 4 Bolts?

out of DTB again?:really:

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

On top of that, what is with people siding in Xantid Swarm against decks with removal/Lightning Bolt?

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I think that's obvious how good/bad that can be... The question is why do people board in xantid swarms when permanents is the problem to answer

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Originally Posted by anakyn

Do you board Swarm in even against a deck playing 4 Bolts?

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depends on the rest of the deck, 4 removal is not an argument not to do so for me

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Originally Posted by anakyn

Only once I managed to combo without being hit by any discard (I was on the draw but he played just Shaman T1 and I had a T1-kill hand); on average their discard hit me at least three times per game, and recovering from that isn't easy at all, espacially if they landed Liliana and/or Shaman.
I'm starting to think that ANT suffers discard more than counters.

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Definitely agree on that last point. If I'm playing against control, then we're both casting cantrips to find win+disruption, a fight which I feel tends to favor the deck that gets to cast Probe, Therapy, Duress, and can also win on the spot if enough of those resolve. How to fight against Force, Daze, Flusterstorm, etc, is a set of skills that can be learned over time. The only thing you learn from Thoughtseize into Hymn is that the world is a terrible place full of terrible people, and maybe that you should've boarded in the Ad Nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

depends on the rest of the deck, 4 removal is not an argument not to do so for me

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Well, I think it's a pretty solid argument to be honest: 4 Bolts vs 3 Swarm means the Swarm will stick very rarely on the ground. And if it's killed we just traded 1 for 1, and the card they lost isn't even a counter.

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Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

Beat UWR Delver 3 times at SCG last week, once in Top 8 even. Multiple Massacres in the board and sticking a Xantid Swarm make the match up easier. I'd rather play UWR Delver than RUG.

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You side in Xantid Swarm vs UWR Delver? And also RUG? That is not very common right =)

I also want to ask you about Massacre. Do you also side him in versus Blade Control, or do you rely on Chain of Vapor because Massacre ruins your Ad Nauseam?

I have been running Pyroclasm recently and it has been fairly impressive. Massacre is insane, but most W(x) decks will bring in RIP which requires AdN. I also cut the Bayou and replaced it with Badlands to compensate for the red.

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Originally Posted by bondfan

I have been running Pyroclasm recently and it has been fairly impressive. Massacre is insane, but most W(x) decks will bring in RIP which requires AdN. I also cut the Bayou and replaced it with Badlands to compensate for the red.

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Massacre is a house against deck that tends to overextend like D&T, once you control the board with massacre taking care of RIP with an AD is enough to not rely completely on AdN

- L

Does a Sjöblom maindeck with a sideboard like this look horrible to you guys? Maybe Massacre in there somewhere?

3 Decay
3 Dread of Night
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Telemin Performance

2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle

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Originally Posted by anakyn

Well, I think it's a pretty solid argument to be honest: 4 Bolts vs 3 Swarm means the Swarm will stick very rarely on the ground. And if it's killed we just traded 1 for 1, and the card they lost isn't even a counter.

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you're underestimating CT interaction or playing it wrong, I'm playing it vs Thresh with great success // I usually do not bring in Swarm vs. UWR

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Originally Posted by Lans89

You side in Xantid Swarm vs UWR Delver? And also RUG? That is not very common right =)

I also want to ask you about Massacre. Do you also side him in versus Blade Control, or do you rely on Chain of Vapor because Massacre ruins your Ad Nauseam?

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I'm simply stating what's been working for me for three months. Carpet has been absolute garbage because all the tempo players just play around it, or don't flood the board with extra islands. Additionally, Swarm is for the Show and Tell / Reanimator / Miracle type matchups, but it also has game in the UWR Delver / RUG matchup. I cut carpets in favor of Swarm because carpet wasn't doing work and Swarm had better applications elsewhere. I added an extra Massacre to hedge the Meddling Mage / Thalia match ups that were expected to be prevalent in Orlando. I'm not here to discuss what is right and what is wrong because I really don't care if other's agree - I'm simply stating what has been working for me because it might work for someone else. I've gotten some great ideas from the TES / ANT thread here (I liked Slosh's Lightning Bolt idea, but couldn't make it work, for example) so I figured I'd try and give back a little.

In regards to Swarm / Massacre being in at the same time - obviously it's a nonbo. I don't Massacre until I need the Mage to be dead, which at that point my Swarm's trigger has already likely resolved. It's not that complicated.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Does a Sjöblom maindeck with a sideboard like this look horrible to you guys? Maybe Massacre in there somewhere?

3 Decay
3 Dread of Night
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Telemin Performance

2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle

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If you want to make room for Massacre, which i advice you to do, maybe you can start dropping a single DoN. Storm is really relevant in your meta? if not, maybe 2 flusterstorm are too much with 7 MD discard.

- L

Southfloridamagic: If xantid works for you and not carpet in your meta then by all means keep at it. Thanks for your input and write up.

I never board in swarm against decks with bolt. It just eats a bolt or a force if you're lucky. Swarm is for griselbrand and miracles/decks that can float countermagic on top that we can't discard with therapy, duress, or seize. Otherwise your swarm eats a removal spell and ask yourself this. Would you ever duress a lightning bolt? No? Because that's essentially what xantid swarm is against RUG and UWR. Not to mention both those decks play wasteland/you have to fetch green for swarm and open yourself up to wasteland. Unless I know my RUG/UWR opponent is boarding out every single removal spell in their deck I'm not going to bring in swarm.

Carpet is pretty weak. Competent players play around it out of RUG and UWR. Netting one extra mana a turn out of carpet isn't worth the card.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

Carpet is pretty weak. Competent players play around it out of RUG and UWR. Netting one extra mana a turn out of carpet isn't worth the card.

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Most of the time you get more mana vs UWR, and against RUG Carpet helps a lot to play around Stifle. And I've seen people throw Force and Pierce against Carpet, so it does its job most of the time.
Carpet rly did a great job for me, but I always played 2. Now I upped the count to 3 because I don't know what to do with 2 of my sb slots since I cut the Dread of Nights and made some changes.

So with Tropical and Bayou in the main, my sideboard looks like this now:

Sideboard
3# Abrupt Decay
3# Carpet of Flowers
2# Xantid Swarm
2# Massacre
2# Chain of Vapor
1# Pithing Needle
1# Empty the Warrens
1# Karakas

This was my old sideboard:

2# Xantid Swarm
2# Carpet of Flowers
2# Abrupt Decay
1# Hurkyl's Recall
3# Chain of Vapor
3# Dread of Night
1# Empty the Warrens
1# Pithing Needle

How does your sideboard look like? I would also like to hear some opions about sideboarding vs Uwb Blade and Deathblade. Massacre is good but you want to use Ad Nauseam, so I side in Chains and Decays to fight their Meddling Mages/Canonists.

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Originally Posted by Lans89

Most of the time you get more mana vs UWR, and against RUG Carpet helps a lot to play around Stifle. And I've seen people throw Force and Pierce against Carpet, so it does its job most of the time.

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This just doesn't make sense to me. How does Carpet help you if they stifle targets your Fetchland that was supposed to dig for your Tropical?? If you are forced to cast Xantid off a Petal therefore, casting FoW is perfectly acceptable. Pierce is a 1-for-1 trade against a deck that still has Dazes, Forces, Flusterstorms and Meddling Mages. I don't know how you think that making a laughable 1-for-1 trade is really helpful :/

I personally play carpet but I don't like it very much. I think it is strong on the play when you see one copy in your open hand, but it is really mediocre on the draw.

As for xantid swarm, I never understand why there is still someone bring it in against tempo...I always see some random SCG players killed by delver with multiple swarms in hand....

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

I personally play carpet but I don't like it very much. I think it is strong on the play when you see one copy in your open hand, but it is really mediocre on the draw.

As for xantid swarm, I never understand why there is still someone bring it in against tempo...I always see some random SCG players killed by delver with multiple swarms in hand....

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The point is: on the play, you need to fetch for a Tropical and your opponent can play around it by just Dumping fetches without using it; or on the draw you cast it directly into a Daze/Pierce with the green mana Source still being a lackluster

Boarding in Xantid Swarm vs UWR seems terrible, it's just one more disruption spell that doesn't even address Meddling Mage or Vendillion Clique and a veritable lightning rod. I'm still running strong with 7 MD discard spells and 4 Chrome Mox vs a UW/x meta, in a day and age where everybody's SB has 4 Meddling Mage + X Vendillion Clique it's just really important to have versatile disruption.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

This just doesn't make sense to me. How does Carpet help you if they stifle targets your Fetchland that was supposed to dig for your Tropical?? If you are forced to cast Xantid off a Petal therefore, casting FoW is perfectly acceptable. Pierce is a 1-for-1 trade against a deck that still has Dazes, Forces, Flusterstorms and Meddling Mages. I don't know how you think that making a laughable 1-for-1 trade is really helpful :/

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Well maybe I think too much about a game vs a stifle heavy hand ^_^, where I started and cast Carpet. A little later I was cantripping with 2 fetchland open, untill I found the Therapy to get rid of the 2 Stifles. Something like that. But overall Carpet is just awesome to ignore 8 of your opponents counters (daze and pierce). Now I can side +3 Carpet +1 Empty the Warrens and side out -2 Preordain -1 Cabal Ritual -1 Ad Nauseam, versus RUG/BUG tempo decks. And vs UWR I add 2 Massacre and maybe cut 2 Probe? Ofc Pierce should always be used on Carpet ;). But when they FoW to protect all the softcounters in their deck. Carpet does a great job.

But any suggestions for changes in my sb are welcome, so go ahead =)