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Played in a Legacy FNM with judge foil lands up for grabs. Tried the two Tops main. Didn't like it. Felt myself short on colored lands. Lost round 1 to Miracles 0-2. Beat Goblins round 2. Lost to Miracles 0-2 round 3. Dropped after that. Didn't really draw my sideboard cards against Miracles, but regardless it's pretty miserable.
Yah I just wanted to test them, played a tornament went 3-2 with only one top and still was kind an issue once ;
lost to omni show and sneak show beat reanimator, deathblade and Urdelver.
If Miracles remains prevalent in my area I may sideboard some Choke and Abrupt Decay.
it's unlikely we'll see an overall decline in miracles since it's matches are fairly even and allow player skill to tip the matches in your favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Yeah, I agree, so I think I need to build by board accordingly. That deck fell out of favor when Decay was printed. Going to fit some in my side.
I've played this deck in 3 local tourneys and at SCG Columbus and here are my opinions so far with the following list. This is the first legacy deck I've ever played too so keep that in mind.
4 Sylan Scrying, Crop Rotation, Expedition Map, Inquisition of Kozilek, Sylvan Library, Pithing Needle, Vampire Hexmage
3 Duress, Pyroblast
4 Dark Depths, Urborg, Thespian's Stage, Mana Confluence, Copperline Gorge
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Maze of Ith, Sejiri Steppe, Ghost Quarter, Forest
SB:
2 Reclamation Sage, Toxic Deluge, Pyroclasm, Ratchet Bomb, Krosan Grip, Ancient Grudge
1 Karakas, Bojuga Bog, Thoughtseize
At the local tourneys my record is a total of 11-1 (4-0,4-0,3-1). My single loss was to show and tell. I managed to win game 2 but couldn't do anything game 3. At SCG Columbus I went 3-3. Lost to ANT (game 3 on turn 1), D&T (Should have gone for it a second time more aggressively + game 2 I drew a land 11 of 12 turns), and to UR burn (mulled to 5 both games I lost).
So far I've had a lot of fun playing it and it seems to do pretty well but the combo matchups are horrendous. That's made me think that a BUG list like the following might be better suited.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=76089
I'm not a fan of the lotus petals and initially would probably start with a 4th Ponder, 4th Inquisition, 2nd Urborg, and 2nd Stage. Not sure. I really like the thought of FOW because it gives good game against the combo decks. Even on turn 1.
Interesting list. It seems with the Dark Rituals and Petals you're foregoing the late game, as those are dead draws as the game goes on. I'd definitely add a second Stage. Blue might be something we need to consider more thoroughly.
this deck just looks very sketchy. Dark rituals dont really add much to the deck unless you lotus petal t1 with dark rit and dark depths. Dark ritual pretty much requires a lotus petal to really benefit the deck and it doesnt really seem efficient to or better to rely on a 4 card combo (ritual petal depths hexmage/stage). It could help t2 with ritual hexmage discard spell depths. I feel like if you are going to run counterspells and discard spells you can afford to remove the excessive speed to improve consistency and solve other issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
That's what I'm thinking too. I'm not against the inclusion of blue, but I don't like Rituals and Petals. What do you think of Abrupt Decay in the side? Have you had any experience with this?
helps against miracles but not ant / combo...Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
I realize that, but after last night I clearly need a boost against Miracles. I've run out of ideas for Storm.
maybe if there was a way to optimize a BUG list to have access to counterspells and discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
I actually missed the rituals that time going through the list. I went through it a couple of weeks ago and noted to myself that I wasn't sure they would be great. Not sure what to replace them with. Go up to full 4 Stage and preordains or spell pierce/snare?Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
played the deck a few times and as expected lotus petal and ritual are excessive. Id suggest the following changes to testQuote:
Originally Posted by komondor
-4 daze (land drops are important)
-4 dark ritual
-4 lotus petal
+3 thespian's stage
+3 spell pierce
+4 expedition map
+2 Abrupt Decay
the decay's main deck should help against miracles. Ideal # would be 3 main i think but couldn't figure out what to cut. Id also probably find a way to work in basic forest main deck. I didn't look at sideboard really but id probably make quite a few changes.
This is what i'll try testing and report results and whether further testing would prove beneficial. (Further testing recommended see edit below)
Not Lands 36
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Ponder
4 Crop Rotation
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Expedition Map
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Vampire Hexmage
Lands 24
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Not of This World
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
*EDIT - after a handful of matches id recommend further testing. Nothing jumped out at me as terribly wrong. My recommendations as of now are possibly working another blue card into the deck to get to 16 blue cards which is the minimum to really be able to justify FOW. Also, I'm sure the manabase could be reworked to include more Urborgs, sejeri steppe, maze of ith, or others. I wouldn't touch the 7 fetch lands since i've generally found 7 to be the least amount to get the most out of brainstorms and ponders.
compared to the original list in the OP outside of the obvious changes to the manabase the following changes were made
-4 sylvan library
-4 sylvan scrying
-4 Pithing Needle
-3 Pyroblast
-3 lands
+4 Brainstorm
+3 Ponder
+1 Discard Spell (thought seize, duress, inquisition)
+4 Force of will
+4 Spell Pierce
+2 Abrupt Decay
Functionally the deck plays very similarly to the op because the following are roughly equatable
sylvan library & sylvan scrying -> Brainstorm & Ponder (card draw / tutor)
Needle & blasts -> FOW & Spell Pierce & discard (protection)
Lands -> Abrupt decays (makes sense to cut lands since Adrien experienced flooding)
Lost to Storm a few times again last night. Still winless against it overall. Probably like 0-30 at this point. Getting comical now. I'm up for anything that lets me beat that deck just once.
Did you test the list above? I think you will find it much better against ant. Almost double the hate main as you are currently running.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Not yet. I'll probably sleeve it up for this Thursday's event.
i was able to do some more testing with it and have grown more fond of it. it still needs to be optimized and I'm not quite sure how to go about it because i haven't played enough games. I did get a chance to play against ant / multiple delver decks / and miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
@ANT
I think it went better with this version than the other just because I was able to advance my land drops while detaining them with both counterspells and discard. Normally we have ~6 discard against them which is close to what they have and since they are generally faster than us they have the advantage. With this blue version there are more defense spells and it just seemed to run their hand empty and then make the token
@ delver tempo
The discard spells took creature threats to slow them down, and although we only had 2 abrupt decays game 1, boarding in the remaining 2 makes the match much easier.
@ miracles
abrupt decays / surgical extraction / pithing needle make this much better than before. Pithing needle hits most of their threats (jace & SDT) and abrupt decay keeps them off counterbalance.
Great news. I never had a problem with Delver. My win % is super high against Delver strategies in my advanced testing with the original build. I actually am relieved when I see my opponent drop a T1 Delver.
Can you post the full 75 for reference, or link me to where it was posted before? I know you did the +/- reconciliation to the original build but I don't recall if you ever posted the full list
Edit - is it the same list as shown in a few posts above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Glad to hear it's showing some promise. I don't have all the cards yet to sleeve it up but I like having some game against the combo decks. While driving last night I was thinking if it would be worth it to just run UB. While it's not going to be anywhere near the efficiency as it would be in a delver deck, I think Cruise could be decent. Plus it ups the # of blue cards for FOW. With all the discard, cantrips, and fetchlands, cruise should be pretty good. Should also be really helpful if you have to go off again. Just threw this list together. Maybe instead of 1 daze or 1 of the cruises a catchall bounce spell.
4 Hexmage
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 FOW
4 Spell Pierce
3 Treasure Cruise
1 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition
4 Expedition
4 Underground
1 Urborg
4 Depths
4 Stage
4 Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 island
1 swamp
1 Wasteland