[Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

Hey. Addy from Aus (wonder if the locals are actually reading this...)

Being trying to get this deck together for ages... went for a small tournament on the weekends, but with subpar lands (damn slow ebay postage), fetch, lotus petal n savannah to replace 3 tundras...

4 rounds, 2-2 (that how u say 2 wins-2 loses)? One match i really shouldnt have lost...

smashed a subpar goblins, but was utterly overrun by UWB Landstill running humility and manlands... forced my force on the humility in round 1, n got it in when i had no answers in round 2... =(

any ideas? i guess i wasnt prepared for enchantment hate, but running slivers against EE/Humility/Wrath seem way too hard...

also, looking at the other Countersliver build, running 4 vials n hibernation, would that be a better way to go against the mass destruction hate?

Need a bit of advice plz...

The Thirst/Vial version was too inconsistent, so I switched back to a more streamlined version, which has been working quite well for me:

Slivers 23:
4 Plated
4 Muscle
4 Sinew
4 Crystalline
3 Hibernation
3 Winged
1 Harmonic

Spells 17:
4 Swords
4 Brainstorm
4 Force
3 Daze
2 Spell Snare

Mana 20:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Plains


SB:
3 Harmonic Sliver
1 Essence Sliver
4 Duress
2 Stifle
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Hydroblast


I found 19 Slivers too few, and it was very difficult to put on pressure after mass-removal. With the exception of combo, the deck gets better the more Slivers it contains. Duress and Stifle from the board should help against various forms of combo. I don't have Meddling Mage in my board, but it is an useful option to supplement Duress.

Am I the only one who likes Hibernation?

I too have found TfK lacking. Of course, I didn't have as many artifacts as you did, but still, it's not that great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bongo

Am I the only one who likes Hibernation?

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You're not the only one who likes the idea behind Hibernation, that's for sure. The main problem I have is trying to fit the damn guy in. Adding a fourth color aside, it's just tough to find room for him. The fact that he's black just makes things harder.

And I can't help but feel that, without some way to offset the lifeloss, all that bouncing can add up. I mean, you bounce five guys and you've already lost half your life. With Vial especially, and since you seem to have an increased sliver count anyway, what about trying to fit Essence into your list?

I also would get rid of the one Harmonic main. I mean, he's good and all, but really you just bring him in against specific things for G2.

Another thing I noticed was that you only run 4 brainstorm as your entire draw/cantrip base. Has this been a problem at all? I mean, I wouldn't want to drop below 8 or so.

I also disagree with Volt on Vial for the time being. It's not quite as good as it is in a heavy Fish meta, but it's still surprisingly good. Sometimes it even sped up my kill by as much as a full turn. Either way, though, I could see that slot just as easily handed off to Counterspell or Spell Snare, I suppose. Possibly even SDT?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by plus_ten

Hey. Addy from Aus (wonder if the locals are actually reading this...)

Being trying to get this deck together for ages... went for a small tournament on the weekends, but with subpar lands (damn slow ebay postage), fetch, lotus petal n savannah to replace 3 tundras...

4 rounds, 2-2 (that how u say 2 wins-2 loses)? One match i really shouldnt have lost...

smashed a subpar goblins, but was utterly overrun by UWB Landstill running humility and manlands... forced my force on the humility in round 1, n got it in when i had no answers in round 2... =(

any ideas? i guess i wasnt prepared for enchantment hate, but running slivers against EE/Humility/Wrath seem way too hard...

also, looking at the other Countersliver build, running 4 vials n hibernation, would that be a better way to go against the mass destruction hate?

Need a bit of advice plz...

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Hey addy i was the guy who beat you with landstill it was actually UWg not UWb, but that is neither here nor there. I have been involved with this deck for quite a while, i have actually played it myself at gg's, can you post the deck list that you ran and we will go from there to address its flaws. I think its a possibility that your sideboard let you down in our games, and that you didnt have the counters to stop my mass removal, but lets see your list first

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patoon

I think its a possibility that your sideboard let you down in our games, and that you didnt have the counters to stop my mass removal, but lets see your list first

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Yes, what does your list look like?

lol... I thought the locals would read it...

I guess its cool. I'm planning to change the Sliver build though, and definitely Krosan Grips to take Humility.

I run the same MD as the primer (except that subpar lands), 6 U-blasts, 1 Meddling, 2 Stifles, 2 Harmonic, 2 Victual and 1 Essence. That s what I get for slow-buying on ebay and looking to face RDWs and burns... The Stifles went in to replace my 2 Counterspells after the Stifles utterly crushed the Goblins. I also ran 3 Plated to fit 2 Stifles (over 1 Plated and 1 Counterspell), because I always see goblins running burn.

Either way, I dont think the primer deck can beat on Landstill either, as Volt noted, because mounting a 6 turn kill through counters and Wrath is very unlikely.

Oh well... see how we go next time... =P

Hello plus ten, and Welcome to The Source!

Please read the Forum Rules and FAQ for New Members before you continue posting. There are strict guidelines on grammar and spelling on this site, please familiarize yourself with them.

~Nightmare

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I think you were unlucky with your sideboard, or rather than unlucky chose wrong for the meta that arrived. I believe when facing control decks you need to play with a version similar to the one being finalised before the flash fiasco. It included main deck counterspells and sideboard pithing needles, i think also the inclusion of aether vial would assist the match up.

In our match offend you were holding stifles which did not help you much when i was casting wrath. I think the list with 2 main deck counterspells and 2 more in the board would help this short coming. Also pithing needles in the board would help drastically as there are so many targets in landstill (factories, monastries, EE, etc). So i would say make room for at least 3 in the board. Finally i think possibly 2 main deck aether vials like some of the current lists have been sporting

So i guess i would say something like

// Land
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Island
1 Plains

// Creatures
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
3 Winged Sliver

// Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
4 Portent

// Metagame Slots
2 Counterspell
2 Aether Vial

// Suggested Sideboard
4 Meddling Mage
2 Counterspell
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Harmonic Sliver

I keep reading all these lists you guys are putting up and would like to say Thanks! Its been prety helpfull.

I've been progressing from a pure agro sliver deck (36 slivers including like 11 onedrops and the legion at one point) to leaning more and more toward a countersliver build like the ones you guys have.

There's one thing I just can't understand....


do you realy have enough land?

My deck was at 21 lands for a while and after i put in the 4 brainstorms i went down to 20 lands, figuring it would be fine, but found that I kept coming up short on lands. So I had to go back to 21.

For cantrips you guys have 4 portents that i havent yet put into my deck instead of 4 of my lands.... does that realy balance out?

Frankly i'm finding Brainstorms a little underwhelming (maybe i'm just not using them correctly), so i'm hesitant to put a worser version of it in instead of the "extra" lands i have. Ofcourse my manabase is still white centric instead of blue centric like yours are is, so maybe that's part of my problem.

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thanks for the quick answer Volt. in theory i agree with that logic, but in practice i keep finding myself short on mana (atleast till i run out of cards in hand...)
i'll post my deck, though its in a consntant state of "evolution" as i aquire more and more of the manabase that i want for it, every once in a while trying to dive heavily into the "Counter" part of CounterSliver, but usualy heading back to the pure sliver hoard approach cause i dont have the Force of Wills.
my deck as it was last time i played it:

4 savanah
3 tropical island
2 volcanic island
2 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
4 reflecting pool
1 city of brass
1 gaea's cradle

4 plated
4 muslce
4 sinew
4 crystalline
3 gemhide
3 heart
1 talon
1 harmonic
1 essense
1 Sliver Legion

4 Brainstorm
4 Eladamri's Call
4 Daze
2 Aether Vial

SB:
2 harmonic
2 darkheart
3 tormod's crypt
and the rest i never used yesterday, party cause i'd been hoping to borrow 4 force of wills to put in with 4 counterspells to have "answers" to the stuff people sided in against a sliver horde.

after yesterday's tournament i traded the away the 2 volcanics for and have replaced them with a tundra (yay for winning yesterday), a scrubland and 2 more heaths.

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realy? you think the pools are worse then the cities?
i've been systematicaly cutting out more and more cities as i've been getting more duals and fetches.

i actualy like the pools, i rarely have hands of 2 pools and no other land, and a hand of a pool and a fetch is perfectly playable (especialy now that i've gotten my first tundra). the cradle is one of the two i used to have to be able to abuse it for first the Sliver Queen's ability, then later the Overlords and more recently the Enshrined Memories, but you're probably right, its time to let it go.
it is nice as a 3rd land, cause i can cast a plated turn one, a crystalline turn 2, and then 2 muscle/sinews on turn 3 (cause the cradle will give 2 or 3 mana depending on when tapped)

after yesterday's trades and win, my mana base will be:

4 savannah
3 trop island
1 tundra
1 scrubland
4 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
4 reflecting pool
1 city of brass

if i replace the 4 pools with Portents and the city with a couple basic lands i'll baiscaly have the mana base you guys run (with slight color differnces, but the dual/fetch/basic ratios prety close)

that's why i was wandering if you ever have problems not having enough land, cuase as far as i can tell, you guys have replaced 4 of my lands with 4 more cantrips and seem happy with it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoddyVR

thanks for the quick answer Volt. in theory i agree with that logic, but in practice i keep finding myself short on mana (atleast till i run out of cards in hand...)
i'll post my deck, though its in a consntant state of "evolution" as i aquire more and more of the manabase that i want for it, every once in a while trying to dive heavily into the "Counter" part of CounterSliver, but usualy heading back to the pure sliver hoard approach cause i dont have the Force of Wills.
my deck as it was last time i played it:

4 savanah
3 tropical island
2 volcanic island
2 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
4 reflecting pool
1 city of brass
1 gaea's cradle

4 plated
4 muslce
4 sinew
4 crystalline
3 gemhide
3 heart
1 talon
1 harmonic
1 essense
1 Sliver Legion

4 Brainstorm
4 Eladamri's Call
4 Daze
2 Aether Vial

SB:
2 harmonic
2 darkheart
3 tormod's crypt
and the rest i never used yesterday, party cause i'd been hoping to borrow 4 force of wills to put in with 4 counterspells to have "answers" to the stuff people sided in against a sliver horde.

after yesterday's tournament i traded the away the 2 volcanics for and have replaced them with a tundra (yay for winning yesterday), a scrubland and 2 more heaths.

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First off, lose the Legion, its definitlely not worth it especially with such an unoptimized mana base.

You should really drop a color or two. If you must run >3 for some reason then go WUgb and try Hibernation Slivers. Try a third Vial if you are going to stretch your manabase this thin.

City>>>Pool if you cant get enough duals and have to play gold lands.

Do you think it might be a good idea for Roddy to turn his build more 'aggroish' by using the Red mana for 4-7 pieces of burn, and perhaps Cautery Sliver? The additional reach provided could compensate for the lack of countermagic protection, kind of like a slower Red Death. The aggro approach would also make City of Brass's drawback less relevant.

I've been trying to fit Talon Sliver in the deck since my meta is mainly aggro and some control, but combo is rarely played (sometimes some Alluren or Solidarity), so SB Meddling Mage is more than enough. My current list is:

// Land
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Island
1 Plains

// Creatures
4 Plated Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
2 Talon Sliver

// Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Snare

//Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Meddling Mage
3 BEB's

I'm running a 2/2 split of Talon and Winged, and it's being nice to me, 3 Winged seemed too much to me because you hate to draw the second one. I really like Talon, and it's nice in an aggro meta, i'd rather have a lonely Talon than a lonely Winged.

Spell Snare is good only against certain decks like Threshold and suicide. It's also nice to counter an EE for 2 or Powder Keg. Anyway I may cut one to make room for the 18th land (a forest or Heath).

Finally, I highly recommend Vedalken Shackles against random aggro, specially if they don't run Wasteland, although pithing needle on wasteland helps a lot.

Welcome to the Source!

@ List: looks solid. The thing about this deck is that it is flexible to a certain extent and can be tweaked to fit different metas should you need it. It looks like you have good justification for all of your changes although I think i would still miss Winged #3.

Best of luck to you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140136667385

Those are sweet , I wish they would actually re-do those instead of people having to rely on rare 1's that shouldn't have existed.