When referring to the trolls, they seem to work well in the Wish version of the deck. However, it seems that maybe you are referring to the Vial version?
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When referring to the trolls, they seem to work well in the Wish version of the deck. However, it seems that maybe you are referring to the Vial version?
I've never been a big fan a trolls in the deck. At the moment I am running wall of blossoms in that spot.
That sounds soooooo much better than the Trolls, honestly. I could even see running the new Carven Caryatid in those slots, since it still blocks and kills any Goblin, even if it costs 1 more.
Did you make any other notable changes to the deck? Would you be willing to post your latest build for discussion?
Luis
Here is my latest build:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Burning Wish
3 Wall Of Blossoms
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Flametounge Kavu
3 Ravenous Baloth
1 Anger
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
2 Naturalize
10 Forest
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Mountain
SB:
1 Naturalize
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (may become naturalize number four, or blast number 7, but I want something against agro here)
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 PyroBlast
1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Tsunami
1 Ruination
1 Regrowth
1 Seeds of Inocense
1 Anarchy
Points of interest:
Burning Wish: absolutely insane, gets you out of many sticky situations, and can just annihilate your opponent in one hit.
1 Hull Breach - standard artifact/enchantment removal
1 Pyroclasm - I heard goblins are big, plus useful sometimes against many other match ups. If you think you are gonna use it, just hold some of your vulnerable creatures back till after you played it.
1 Tsunami - good against blue heavy decks such as control or solidarity. This can often be pulled off 3rd turn against solidarity, sometimes with counter back up.
1 Ruination - good against non-basic lands, duh. Can just win on the spot.
1 Regrowth - what's that, a second burning wish? need that hate card again? Also makes burning wish never a dead card.
1 Seeds of Innocence - affinity always has the chance of popping up, and still a fine choice even against two artifacts.
1 Anarchy - greatly pulls angel stompy in your favor as well as any other deck running white
Wall of blossoms: never really got anything i overly liked in this spot. Troll was just too weak of a card for the mana it soaks up. This not only costs less mana but digs for more if you need it. Never a dead card and useful against agro.
Naturalize in the Main Deck: This may seem odd but the reason I did this was cause I had no room in my SB. And with only two, you are seldom gonna get flooded with these, and they are useful in many matches. I have been greatly pleased with the 2 in the Main Deck. They randomly just win you games sometimes, and I am almost never upset that I got one. I however don't want to up the count, cause then I feel that I could get flooded much more often, cause the chance of drawing two greatly increased.
Blasts: I need something against solidarity. I have found that pre-board it is about 30-70 in solidarity’s favor. But with 6 blasts, it goes about 60-40 in your favor. This is not great and the match is still against you, but it gives you a descent chance. The reason I chose blasts over another hate card is cause they are also useful in other match ups. Against control you have 5 bad cards (FTK + sharpshooter) that you need to side something in for, and the blasts fill this position. Although it may seem like the white cards in landstill you fear (wrath, pulse, swords, humility) but it is the blue cards that can really screw you. You go survival they go counter, you cry. But if you can beat them in the counter war and resolve a survival, you are probably gonna win. The same is true for Burning Wish, forcing a ruination/tsunami through late game, can mean game over for the control deck. So the blasts allow you to resolve a game ending spell.
What are you thinking of a Living Wish in the SB?
quicksilver: nice list. I'll test it out.
Helgaborg: quicksilver said he was really tight on SB space, which is why he moved 2 Naturalizes to the maindeck. Adding a Living Wish would involve cutting something currently in the SB, and possibly putting another creature in there to Living Wish for. Additionally, it's sort of a long chain to go Burning Wish --> Living Wish --> Creature, and it's doubtful that you'd be able to do that in one turn, unless it's very lategame.
I dunno, Survival is just a super Living Wish, so why bother? If the only guy we'd Living Wish for is a Sharpshooter, for example, we can just Survival one up, or if he's dead use a Witness to get him back...
Luis
I think Carven is a good idea, although there still is the problem of goblins fiddling with our mana by killing turn 1 elf/bop, is this tradeoff worth the +2/+1 ????
well carven costs the same as troll in this deck better than troll and if the deck played troll before I think it can manage carven now oh that and goblins really doesnt mess with your mana critters unless of course your blocking lackey and if they are gempalming your mana critter turn 2 thats really not advantage or tempo gain for them. oh sorry off topic yeah carven better than wall cuz it blocks to kill and gives you a viable turn 2 three drop.
What do you guys think of running wall of roots over blossoms?
Quicksilver,
What about Quirion Ranger? Don't you need the extra mana she provides? Or the protection for your Taigas?
What about Spore Frog? Not necessary anymore? Even if an opposing deck can find an answer for him, he still slows them down by a turn or two.
Do you not think Duplicant has a place in the sideboard?
I have had Cranial Extraction in my sideboard, and find it very useful, even with only birds available to get black mana. What do you think?
Nope, you've got enough mana producers. And as quiksilver said before, I provides the extra dig that the deck needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by big_al
At worsel, I do agree with the single Quirion Ranger plan. I'd personally cut a mana elf for it.
I do not think one ranger is worth the effort, seriously in the matchups where you are worried about your taigas the ranger will probably just die.
If you are looking for the mana accel you are not wanting a one of, you will probably not have it when you need it.
If you are survivaling for a ranger then you probably dont need the accel or it will prolly not protect your land.
This is not to say she is bad but just not as a one of.
But the ranger has always been a one-of, hasn't it?
It works really well after you resolve a SOTF. Then you do a few ranger tricks (with rofellos usually) to get mega mana, then play and recur a hermit for the win. The extra loads of mana speed you up. I personally have always found it beneficial.
What do you think Quicksilver?
Ranger has never been in the deck.
RGSA has a stable, basic-heavy manabase, and enough lands to make early land drops consistently. Few of its utility creatures have tap effects. Ranger is honestly not very good at all, and the only time you might want her is when you are going off with Survival.
That makes her utterly win-more.
I have never run ranger. The deck does not usually miss land drops so it would just sit there most of the time. And unlike llanowar/birds, it does not accelerate your speed without a rofellos.
Wall of Blossoms is the tits. Roots, although solid, isn't necessary as the deck already runs a complement of 8 one-drop sources. Wall allows more solid defense for the early Goblin rush, and it cantrips too.Quote:
What do you guys think of running wall of roots over blossoms?
As for the Ranger debate, I strongly encourage people to run it as a singleton. I'm well aware the deck doesn't have many problems missing early landdrops, but when you have the opportunity to get ridiculous with Rofellos, I'd use it. Despite people believing it to be win-more, it really isn't because it allows you to act turns quicker with the extra boost from Rofellos. Is that win-more, or is that simply the opportunity to win faster? I'd say the latter. The fact that it is a weak slot without an accelerant or Sharpshooter is greatly outweighed with the use of Burning Wish and Wall of Blossoms. Wall digs farther to hit past it, and Wish has such a solid utility box the slight delay may somtimes not be a bit deal. Remember it is a singleton, and in a consistant deck like this, it shouldn't hurt it enough to be noticed.
EDIT: Oh yeah. It blocks Goblin Lackey turn 1. That might be worth something.
Indeed, the ability to work your manabase & do silly things with angry Rofellos are very powerful. Every other angry Survival deck has run Ranger to good effect, including ATS & MacGuyver among Source creations. The ability to block Turn 1 lackey is quite relevant in the modern metagame, as is it's ability to work very well with existing mana critters other than Rofellos and to suck removal out of my opponents. After playing against MacGuyver a couple of times, they seem to STP Ranger on sight...which bodes well for the rest of my more threatening critters, even if they will be cpoming online more slowly.
This is a dangerous philosophy to endorse, and it seems to go against the basic premise of RGSA. What you really need to say is that Ranger's utility will win you more games than her shittiness will lose. And in this deck, a creature that is only good once you've resolved Survival probably won't do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablos
Also, the fact that she could theoretically block Lackey means next to nothing, since she might very well have to replace another 1-drop, and since Goblins has 8+ ways of killing x/1s anyway.
That was the basic idea of my sentiments. Plus, remember Ranger's abilities beyond Rofellos. Although it isn't as significant of a boost, it can add mana with an accelerant, and it protects from Wastelands. I know the deck can blow off Wasteland without being hurt much, but I'd rather save the land than let it be hit. Also could toss a Taiga back to your hand after and early Ruination.Quote:
What you really need to say is that Ranger's utility will win you more games than her shittiness will lose. And in this deck, a creature that is only good once you've resolved Survival probably won't do that.