we know your mistake, but evidently someone considers himself too superior for us poor noobs and says that this tread is becoming " more and more worse", uh ?:confused:
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we know your mistake, but evidently someone considers himself too superior for us poor noobs and says that this tread is becoming " more and more worse", uh ?:confused:
Not to play confidants, I have to say.Quote:
Vial is pretty tech, you know.
Yeah, I've been anticipating that.
Quote:
I dont really want to go the land destruction route because it is a tad too expensive, therefore, I was thinking a more aggro control route.
That sounds very clever, Windux.Quote:
Just put 3 U-Seas and 5 Fetchies in...
Plus I've said not farther than 1 page ago, that one could not post a deck for every budget (50€-100€-150€ etc...). We don't care what every people can afford, we are not your bank. The discussion is about the merfolk deck, which is NOT a budget deck. If you want to play budget (and competitive) play Ichorid or even burn. Merfolk cannot be budget (even if tribal).
Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
That was unnecessary.
I was not asking for a budget deck.
I was simply stating that I dont want to go the direction of land destruction, I dont believe LD is as viable as it once once because of everything in almost every deck costing 3 or less.
I guess I will phrase my question a little differently then.
What would be a good aggro-control, tribal version of this deck?
I really think Sygg, River Cutthroat and Psionic Blast could be extra CA and reach.
Also, which do you think is better: Puresight Merrow or Inkfathom Infiltrator?
Elfrago: it looks very bad, does not block (except for chump block), looks a lot like a win more card.
fourleafedmonkey:
- the LD route is good because :
...- it protects you from the spells that hurt (humility, deed, wrath, disk, ...)
...- the fact that decks play little CC cards implies that the decks play few lands, which implies that it is easier to disrupt (against threshold : 18 lands against 12 mana denials, is it easy to play 2CC cards with 6 land? btw, I know they play cantrip and search for their lands, but anyway...).
...- the mana denial enable you to play standstill at any moment because you don't fear anymore to face a mishra or wastelands.
...- playing a lot of mana denial lands implies also that you play a lot of lands which implies that you can play rushing river at its best.
By the way, can you explain me this sentence if it was not a cost consideration?
I think that threshold is not good enough now to be played (ichorid/aggro loam/chalice decks are better than threshold). So I don't think that copypasting the threshold strategy is the way to go. I've also noticed that all the people who tried it don't believe in merfolks anymore.Quote:
I dont really want to go the land destruction route because it is a tad too expensive, therefore, I was thinking a more aggro control route.
really its is going to average out to be a 4/4 or a 5/5 attacking the turns after it just came down
if we could find away to land an oppisition, it becomes a house
This one is clearly worth playing with a pumper into play it's clearly a house.Quote:
Cold-Eyed Selkie 1 U/G U/G
Creature - Merfolk Rogue
Islandwalk
Whenever Cold-Eyed Selkie deals combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards.
Illus. Jaime Jones #149/180 1/1
But... without one it's ass.
1/1 for 3.. I'd rather play Shadowmage Infiltrator then, atleast he doesn't die to Mogg Fanatic.
You mean that with no pumper it's bad ??? It's simply a bit worse than shadowmage infiltrator, which is a quite good card no ? The main question is : is it better than standstill. I'm not sure it's playable in addition to standstill, because we are missing slots. But removing standstill enables to play 1 land less (no conclave anymore) which frees at least 5 slots. The following list would be playable:
Folks: 22
4 Lords
4 Reejereys
4 Silvergil
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Wake Thrasher or 3 Jitte (yeah I changed my mind a bit about this card)
3 Shapesharer
Mana : 24
4*port
4*wasteland
12*island
4*vial
Disruption : 12
4*Daze
4*FoW
4*Stifle
Bounce : 2
2*Rushing River
SB :
3*Jitte
4*Propaganda
4*Tormod's crypt
2*Rushing River
2*Mind Harness
But who plays Shadowmage Infiltrator in Legacy? (noone) because it isn't good enough.
Anyways, I'm definately going to test the Selkie and Wake Thrasher - but I'm not impressed by either...
Unless you have B2B, I'd add at least a Pendelhaven to go with that guy. All the "your opponent now controls an Island" effects also got more attractive.
Random thoughts, mostly to Hightower and others with a more aggro interest:
If you're running Grimoire Thief, what about Mothdust Changeling? It's evasive and helps tap your Thief. I'm not sure that it can replace Cursecatcher in the 1-drop slot though.
Can we run under a Winter Orb? We can use Reejery to untap our lands or tap theirs, we can use Vial to get around Orb, and we can use Banneret to reduce our costs. B2B is better for most metas but people tend to use basics around here.
I thought the general consensus is that Vial slows down aggro by making you lose a turn, so why do you (Hightower et. al.) play it? Is it worth it to get around countermagic?
If you play Standstill, seriously consider Waterfront Bouncer. It's now a Merfolk, and it can bounce their dudes from underneath Standstill. Bouncer's also great for recurring Couriers.
I'm increasingly tempted to ditch Courier for another option (Selkie, Sygg, Curiosity) because Courier doesn't let me draw a lot of useful stuff like FoW, Jitte, Standstill, Vial, and I think my deck is leaning towards using fewer merfolk (in favor of those cards and others). Which among Dark Sygg, Selkie, and Curiosity are the most playable in your opinions?
Pendelhaven's pretty interesting because of all our 1/1s. Unfortunately, playing it early when we're trying to develop UU is not good, especially when we also have Mutavaults, Wastelands, and possibly Ports that don't produce U. If only there were a blue Urborg.
This is interesting. All of a sudden there are a lot of cool Merfolk to consider.
Wistful Selkie
Creature - Merfolk Wizard {ug}{ug}{ug}
Uncommon 2/2
When Wistful Selkie comes into play, draw a card.
With our current very good manabase, this guy probably isn't playable. But his ability is so good, he may be worth adjusting lands for.
and the aforementiened:
Cold-Eyed Selkie
Creature - Merfolk Rogue 1{ug}{ug}
Rare 1/1
Islandwalk
Whenever Cold-Eyed Selkie deals combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards.
I think this plays a lot differently than Infiltrator. Infiltrator is commonly a sole target in a deck that is essentially a control shell. This guy will be part of an aggro deck. And will rarely be a 1/1. If you have a 2/2 Selkie and a 7/7 Thrasher coming at you, which do you block? Either way, it's going to hurt.
and I really like this one that Mav is talking about:
Wake Thrasher
Creature - Merfolk Soldier 2U
Rare 1/1
Whenever a permanent you control becomes untapped, Wake Thrasher gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Wake Thrasher seems like it can get very, very big. Even without any special stuff at all, he will probably be a 5/5 or a 6/6 when he attacks on turn 4. I big independent bitch is precisely what this deck has always needed. And unlike something like Threshold, where Tarmos don't have any evasion, this guy can easily get Islandwalk or see some tapped opponents via Reejerey. Speaking of Reejerey, those untap effects will be nice here too to say nothing of the pump.
But mostly what I like about the new Merfolk you guys mentioned is that they both have targets on their heads, unlike pretty much all of the additions we have bandied about up until now.
I wrote a really long reply, but Internet Explorer decided to fuck me up.. so I lost all the text
In short: Vial = must include (in my opinion) dodge counters/counterbalance etc.
Tidal Courier = not good, but the best thing available unless you want to take the deck a different direction (cut Merfolks for spells) Maybe he can indeed be cut for the new Folks
I will have to see what the 2 Eventide Merfolk (Thrasher, Selkie) can do in my aggro version. Hopefully my first assumption of them can be shown to be wrong.
Hightower, I think I am finally ready to quit Tidal Courier. Between the Selkie and Silvergill, there should be plenty of draw power. And Maverick, after quite a bit of time, you and I are on the same wavelength.
4 Wasteland
3 Rishidan Port
14 Island
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Stifle
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Wake Thrasher
I really, I mean really wish there was a way to fit Brainstorm in here. There aren't enough turn 1 plays.
Brainstorm isn't at its best as a turn one play, anyways. But I've no idea what you would cut to add Cursecatcher and Brainstorm.
EDIT - There's also, of course, Ancestral Vision.
And with all the more expensive but powerful Merfolk -- Selkie and Thrasher in addition to Reejerey -- Stonybrook Banneret might merit a second look.
Psst, you've got room for 1 copy of Brainstorm. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
I'm a bit surprised at the total lack of Island-makers though. Perhaps we could drop some spells to 3-ofs to make room for Tidal Warriors? Selkie really wants to connect.
The same with :Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
-1 island
+1 rishadan
-3 jitte
+3 shapesharer
And here you are. I'm still not convinced it's better than standstill merfolks.
mmm.....
I tested the deck with new eventide folks yesterday and after some games, i sincerely asked myself: are these new entries worth the change ? I mean, i realized that trasher is really strong, but in oppo's turns is just a 1/1 which can be killed by everything.. and in any case, he doesn't have trample... and for what reguards me he never became more than 6/6... bah... The only way t use it very rightly would be to vial it oppo's EOT when he's tapped out, but... meh... this almost never happens.
I don't like cold eyed at all, sincerely. Why to play an ugly copy of shadowmage infiltrator ( which i consider to be a not-so-strong card in any case, btw) when we can keep more Card Advantage just with standstill, which is faster ? And these merfolks would make us play with lots of more 3.drops, so we should take the deck into a VERY more controllish optic in order to abuse our "heavy-cost"Folks..
... To be brief, I concluded that I like way more my old merfolks list.. mybe shapesharer could be substitued by 1-2 trashers, but I'm more keen on keeping my folks CC curve @2 and abuse of vial, surely, but not so much, instead of playing lots of 3-drops and relying (almost) exclusively on vial..
I still prefer "Landstill Merfolks", in conclusion. Trasher can be appealing, cold -eyed No at all.. to my eyes.
@Piceli:
Valid points, but I think it depends on how you add them. Islandwalk trumps both Fear and Trample, but it means you need to be able to give them Islands. Infiltrator isn't used because he can only draw 1, requires Black, and isn't a Merfolk. I know the 1 toughness of these guys all suck, but like Finn said, it's coming to the point where pretty much everything is a must-kill in this deck. And regarding the casting costs, there is always the Banneret (which itself walks :cool: ).