Doh - you're right. I didn't read until the end of Punishment. Pulse is still the preferred maindeck catchall. I like EE to suppliment it as well, with all the weenies running around.
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Doh - you're right. I didn't read until the end of Punishment. Pulse is still the preferred maindeck catchall. I like EE to suppliment it as well, with all the weenies running around.
crime/punishment also flips for 7 off bob. Not the goods.
As for turning off misstep:
The only matchup where I wish i didn't have to play through misstep was SFM Bant, and that's generally because of their equipment.
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
Creatures
3 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
Instants
2 Punishing Fire
2 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries
3 Burning Wish
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Life from the Loam
2 Vindicate
1 Worm Harvest
Basic Lands
1 Forest
Lands
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Dust Bowl
3 Forgotten Cave
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plateau
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Legendary Lands
1 Karakas
Sideboard:
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Choke
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life from the Loam
1 Perish
1 Pulverize
1 Retribution of the Meek
1 Nomad Stadium
Micah Greenbaum just took first at SCG Baltimore with that 4c Aggro Loam list.
I love seeing Devastating Dreams used again. That card is a house against so much.
I'm pleasantly surprised it's been good with all of this blue running around.
before this weekend's legacy tournament, i lent my enchantress deck to my friend in exchange for his aggro loam deck. i played around with it some, and ended up with this list going into the tournament:
1 maze of ith
1 bojuka bog
1 volrath's stronghold
1 dryad arbor
4 wasteland
2 taiga
1 badlands
1 bayou
1 plateau
4 wooded foothills
1 bloodstained mire
3 grove of burnwillows
4 forgotten cave
2 tranquil thicket
4 mox diamond
4 dark confidant
4 countryside crusher
3 tarmogoyf
3 knight of reliquary
2 grim lavamancer
1 birds of paradise
4 life from the loam
3 green sun's zenith
3 punishing fire
2 maelstrom pulse
sideboard:
4 leyline of the void
4 chalice of the void
3 cabal therapy
2 ancient grudge
2 gaddock teeg
Match 1 - rbg something (stoneforge mystic, lavamancer, confidant, discard)
g1: keep hand of mox, confidant, fatty, and some land. He burns my confidant, and topdecks 3 wastelands to keep me on 2 lands. Eventually i hit loam, start recurring wastelands until hes has no lands. Kotr beats for the win.
g2: -1 bog, -1 lavamancer +2 ancient grudge
keep hand of confidant, goyf, cycler, and lands. He opens with lavamancer, which i feed my confidant to, making my next turn goyf bigger. He swords a pair of my goyfs, and drops stoneforge mystic. I rip punishing fire off the top, and combined with my grove already in play, i burn every creature he tries to play. A 3rd goyf goes the distance
(1-0)
Match 2 - Dredge (no LED)
keep hand of: birds of paradise, zenith, mox, lavamancer, and lands. He opens with putrid imp, and i realize my only hope is to zenith for KotR and tap it for bog. Turn 2 i get my KotR, but he goes off before i can tap him.
game 2: -2 lavamancer, -3 punishing fire, -1 maze, -2 loam, -2 goyf +4 chalice +4 leyline +2 teeg
Opening hand has 2 leylines and confidant. He cant find an answer to leyline before bob and a goyf tap for the win.
game3: mull into hand of: leyline, goyf, lands. Again he fails to answer leyline before goyf and a crusher go to town.
(2-0)
Match 3 - Dragon Stompy
opening hand of birds, zenith, zenith, kotr, lands. Turn 2 kotr, turn 3 zenith -> kotr, turn 4 zenith -> kotr is more than he can handle.
game 2: -2 punishing fire, -2 lavamancer, +2 ancient grudge, +2 gaddock teeg
keep hand of: mox, confidant, crusher, crusher, lands. We exchange fatties and beats for a while, and both end up really low on life. I get lucky on a confidant trigger and hit a land. A top decked bird of paradise chumps his rakdos pit dragon and lets me swing for the win.
(3-0)
Match 4 - UBG Landstill
win dice roll, and keep hand of mox, confidant, crusher, lands. Turn 1 confidant gets countered, but turn 2 crusher lands. I lucksack with the crusher trigger, and he gets huge fast. Wasteland stall long enough for him to turn sideways twice, and win.
Game 2: -2 lavamancer -1 maze -1 bog, -2 pulse, +2 teeg, +4 chalice
Keep hand of bob, goyf, crusher, loam, and lands. His deck works like its supposed to, and i quickly realize he has more answers than i have creatures. I go into loam mode, and eventually find punishing fires and grove. I slowly burn him to 0 while keeping his factories and jace in check. After the game he admits that he didn't know what i was playing since all he saw game 1 was crusher, so he didn't board in any graveyard hate. Lucky on my part, but i will take what i can get.
(4-0)
Match 5 - burn/sleigh (elementals, figure of destiny, misstep, scroll)
I drop confidant and some other beats while he plays mountains and passes the turn for a while. Then he plays 2 price of progress which is more than enough to kill me.
game 2: -2 lavamancer, -2 punishing fire, -1 bog, -2 pulse, +4 chalice, +3 therapy
(in hindsight, i should of taken out loam and kept in some of the burn)
my first 7 is nothing short of the best possible hand against a burn deck: chalice, chalice, mox, kotr, lands. Turn 1 chalice at 1, turn 2 KotR, turn 3 chalice at 2. He scoops.
game 3: I mull to 5 looking for chalice, but am forced to keep: crusher, zenith, birds, fetches. For the first time i realize hes playing more of a sleigh deck than a burn one, and my fatties outsize his. He wastes alot of his burn killing my crushers and goyfs, but eventually i land a KotR at 10/10 or so, and he cant answer it. i win while at 2 life.
(5-0)
Match 6 - Enchantress
now in the top 8, i manage to get matched up against my friend playing my enchantress deck. Since i play enchantress alot, i realize that there is no chance in hell i am going to win game 1. I get some good confidant / goyf beating in, but he finds solitary confinement, and we go to game 2
-3 punishing fire, -2 lavamancer, -1 maze, -1 loam +3 cabal therapy, +4 chalice
Keep a hand of therapy, bob, loam, crusher, lands. I blindly therapy away his argothian, and sac bob to get his grove. Alas, he top decks another enchantress and its downhill from there.
(5-1)
Conclusions:
zenith was amazing all day. One of its most important uses is as a pseudo-mox turn 1 for dryad arbor, allowing you to cast crusher or KotR turn 2. It also avoids KotR's pesky mana cost, which is his biggest problem. I was running BoP as a color fixer and zenith target, but i never actually cast zenith for it. Most the time when i had 2 mana i would rather be casting bob/loam/fire/goyf. However, the BoP did come in handy several times; noble heirarch may be useful in this slot as well.
Lavamancer did not impress me at all. Using his ability early on hurts your goyf/loam/knights/pfire way too much. Using his ability later in the game is subpar, because you have pfire, and the ability to recur your fatties
double post
On RGb vs. RGw:
One of the primary draws to running black seems to be Bob, but is Bob's extra draw really necessary when you have cycle lands and Loam for card advantage? Don't get me wrong, I love me some Bobs, but it seems like this is one list where you could live without him.
For white lists, has anyone considered running Jotun Grunt to make up for the lack of Stronghold? It's definitely clumsier, but you always have access to fetches, he provides an extra body, and is less mana intensive. Unlike Stronghold though, there's no guarantee he'll see play. He can recycle more than creatures though.
Seismic vs. P.Fire - Is it criminal to try and run both? PFire+Grove is pretty inevitable as the game goes on (barring grave hate), so it seems to me that you could run 1/2 of each, mostly as a backup to Seismic against heavy control decks or the unfortunate event of dredging all your Assaults away.
@ Richard Cheese: The extra draw is good. You don't always start with Loam, and post-board you're Loam can be Extirpated, which is bad times. I don't have Dark Confidant in my list, but if I was running black, I would find a way to run him. He usually sets up a win if he survives even a few turns unanswered. Jotun Grunt doesn't tend to play well with Loam. You'd be better off running Zeniths and Goyfs. I run both Seismic Assault and Punishing Fire in my build.
@ honz: It's funny: I remember Stephen Menendian saying (or it might have been Doug Linn recalling something Menendian said) that they liked Enchantress's chances in the Open series but that they didn't run it because it couldn't beat Aggro Loam. But that version had Devastating Dreams, EE and Firespout, all of which make a huge difference in the matchup. Outside of Wasteland, Maelstrom Pulse, Chalice of the Void and Gaddock Teeg (and beaters), there aren't a lot of great cards you have in that matchup.
@ Richard Cheese: The extra draw is good. You don't always start with Loam, and post-board your Loam can be Extirpated, which is bad times. I don't have Dark Confidant in my list, but if I was running black, I would find a way to run him. He usually sets up a win if he survives even a few turns unanswered. Grunt doesn't tend to play well with Loam. You'd be better off running Zeniths and Goyfs. I run both Seismic Assault and Punishing Fire in my build. Punishing Fire helps make up for the lack of Bobs.
@ honz: It's funny: I remember Stephen Menendian saying (or it might have been Doug Linn recalling something Menendian said) that they liked Enchantress's chances in the Open series but that they didn't run it because it couldn't beat Aggro Loam. But that version had Devastating Dreams, EE and Firespout, all of which make a huge difference in the matchup. Outside of Wasteland, Maelstrom Pulse, Chalice of the Void and Gaddock Teeg (and beaters), there aren't a lot of great cards you have in that matchup.
Turn 1 bob is probably the most powerful play in the format, after turn 1 brainstorm and bob and turn 1 dark rit dark rit ad nauseam.
Remember boys and girls: Dark Confidant is the best creature in the format. You're really going to give that up?
-Matt
Bob dies to Mogg Fanatic, Goyf doesn't, also, you might not draw the Mox Diamond to play turn 1 Bob so don't run Bob please.
Right but that's not exactly a reason to include him in a deck is it? Brainstorm is one of the best cards ever printed in any format...should we play blue so we don't have to give that up either? I'm not asking if it's worth running him if you're already going RGb. I'm just asking if Bob alone makes black a more appealing choice over white when you already have Crusher, cycle lands, and Loam for filter/draw/card advantage, or if all the targeted removal black gives you access to is the real reason, and Bob is more of a bonus. I'm just trying to learn my way around the deck and figure out if I want to start with a RGw or RGb list. Right now I'm leaning towards white for KotR, Grunt, StP, and access to Armageddon as a Wish target.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Also, what say ye about the new M12 land:
Good enough with EE to include as a 1-of?Quote:
Buried Ruin
Land
T: Add to your mana pool.
:2:,T, Sacrifice Buried Ruin: Return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
Bob is the reason to run black. Bob is better than all of those white cards you listed put together.
You don't have a draw engine otherwise. That's the problem. Drawing extra cards at almost no disadvantage is hot, which is very similar to running him in the board of 43 lands. It's just really good.
-Matt
This is true. The Loam draw engine is gravy but also glacially slow and extremely mana intensive; it's strictly late-game. You need something to fuel you early in the game and as a backup in case you can't Loam (for any of a variety of reasons). If you lose Bob by cutting black, you basically have to run Sylvan Library, which is not nearly as strong except in cases where you have multiple Loams and Assault going.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
This deck is a classic midrange deck. It needs a draw engine to stay together, and it needs redundancy to make up for the lower overall power level of its cards.
I will definitely be giving the black version a try. I finally got around to throwing a list together in Cockatrice and I completely see what you mean now. Just feels kinda dead in the water without an active Loam.
Sorry for the double post, but what do you guys recommend for the Painted Stone matchup? Sneak/Show?
Sneak/Show: We lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Painted Stone: Krosan Grip, Ancient Grudge, burn out the wazoo.
There are answers to Show if you run a Wishboard. Either Retribution of the Meek or Persish. Or Chainer's Edict if they don't have any other creatures. Sneak is much harder if they play correctly with enough mana to activate.
Is anyone actually playing Sneak though?
Pithing Needle helps against Sneak Attack, and REB helps against Show n Tell. Those answers aren't very robust or solid - it's probably a very poor matchup.
How many SB slots are worth devoting to artifact hate though? Right now I have 3x Grip and 1 Pulverize to wish for. Maybe Pyroblast/REB are worth a shot? I've just not been able to burn out painter fast enough running Lavamancer, Seismic, and PFires. I could run Bolt over Lavamancer, but it feels like this is the only match it helps. I may just drop PFires, just threw it in because I like the inevitability vs. control, and a few people in this thread were raving about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
We had a small 7-man at the local Legacy event (tons of people had to work or are away for the summer on internships).
I took 3rd place with this list. I played some games against UW Stoneforge Landstill before the tournament, and was unfavoured both pre and post board, but I also drew like crap.
I won against Dredge, lost to Merfolk (narrowly, I drew like crap) and beat Elves.
My list:
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
2 Terminate
2 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Countryside Crusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Terravore
BOARD
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Pyroblast
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Extirpate
2 Perish
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
-----
I also played against Painter Combo, and he had 3+ Counterspells for my removal at all times. Them's the breaks. I was thinking of adding in 2 Fires and 2 Groves, but I'm not sure if 2 Groves are enough.
-Matt
I've been liking 2 Groves in testing online. It's really more of a backup plan against decks that can counter Assault. I actually thought about cutting it to 1, since like Stronghold it's only meant to be abused in the late game, and you'll find it eventually with dredging.
Also, why 2 Bayou/1 Badlands instead of the other way around? Assault is usually the only thing I have issues casting.
Well at worst punishing fire is 1R: Kill target X/1 or X/2 or win target goyf war. Grove of the burnwillows + punishing fire is best in builds packing KotR because it can tutor for the grove and punishing fire can just get dredged into.
Interesting list Matt. Maybe splash white solely for KotR and vindicate instead of pulse? I dunno. KotR is just so awesome so much of the time. Also opens you up to swords but maybe that stretches the manabase then again Micah Greenbaum ran 4 color loam to great results in Baltimore.
I like the idea of 4x Punishing Fire 0x Seismic. They really accomplish the same thing by having a late game win condition and removal for creatures that need to die.
The differences IMO:
Fires can be dredged over to no loss.
Fires is easier to cast.
Fires is hard to deal with (can't even be Extirpated).
Fires can be cast earlier to stop Bob, Noble, etc...
Fires is slower and more mana intensive.
Fires cannot reach as big or as many. Not reaching to 3 is a pretty big deal.
I'm not so concerned with Fires being slower. If it's a late game, inevitability kill, it doesn't matter if it takes a little longer to pull off. Not being able to hit x/3 efficiently is bad though. Maybe that means that Fires needs to be played along side other, more versatile removal like Pulse, Vindicate, DD and/or Firespout to handle the big dudes and the swarms.
One of my main reasons to dislike Seismic is the RRR. The other is that I hate dredging over it. It makes me want to play bad cards like E. Witness and I really don't want to do that. The fact that Seismic can be dealt with is also another concern.
The thing is, Seismic Assault wins the game now. I raced Dredge with a Seismic Assault online. I landed Assault, and raced Tokens + Narcomoebas + Ichorids. I had a 9/9 Terravore and a Bob keep me alive until I hit Assault, at which point I killed him in a turn and a bit. Grove/Fires is pretty saucy, but Assault is freakin' brutal in terms of doing 6+ damage a turn. I definitely agree that RRR is also brutal, as I'm usually wanting 2 green and 2 red up.
I know Mitch took 1st at Baltimore, but his manabase looks SO shaky. I tried a 4C list a while back, and found it was tough balancing white for removal, green for your Loams, and reds for Assault/Crusher. But, I can always try it again.
-Matt
Corpt, if you don't like getting your good cards dredged away, I guess you could always just run bad cards. My point is that you might not really get the point of dredging LftL. Sure, you 'lose' three cards, but you get one. No more, but neither any less than you would've drawn anyway. And this way it's the card you actually want. You can't run only self-retracable cards just because you don't like to see useless cards in your graveyard. Then you'd be playing Ichorid-dredge. With that deck you want to dredge as much as you can, but with LftL you need to consider it every turn. What do I want to draw? How likely is it that I will? Is a LftL better/more reliable? This concideration is to me still one of the toughest and most important of a regular game.
About the rest of the deck; I haven't played MTG for about a year, but recently kinda picked it up again. I always used to play RGb Aggro Loam and have been playing pretty much the same 75 as, say, two years ago. I've never been that fond of the white splash for KotR. Besides the fact that I never really got convinced of Knight (in fact, I still prefer Terravore), I partly dislike it because I don't beleave in a 4c manabase. My own 26-lands 3c manabase with duals/fetch instead of basics is about as vulnerable to colorscrew as I can bare. Also it's because I feel that playing white implies running StP over Chalice of the Void and I'm still convinced that a CotV build is the way to go. We can never run enough good 1-drops to outpower the tier 1 decks' ones (most notably Brainstorm) and we run Moxen anyway, so Chalice fits perfectly.
Another card many people seem to have cut is Burning Wish. Even though the M10 ruleschange made it slightly worse (It's a little less effective against Extirpate, which doesn't see play, and you can't play your flashbacked Chainer's Edict for a third time. Big deal.), I never experienced the conistency in testing without Wish that I felt when playing with it. Also, I realise the card is pretty mana-ntensive, but as long as you run 0-2 cmc targets only, that really shouldn't be a problem.
This is my list. As said, it has been roughly the same for some time and I really feel that it's pretty much optimal.
4 Mox
4 CotV
2 Terminate
2 DDreams
3 LftL
4 Burning Wish
2 Seismic Assault
4 Confidant
4 Goyf
2 Terravore
3 Crusher
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Barbarian Ring
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
4 Wasteland
7 Verdant Catacombs/Bloodstained Mire/Wooded Foothills
1 Bayou
2 Badlands
4 Taiga
1 LftL
1 DDreams
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Shattering Spree
1 Reverent Silence
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thorn of Ametyst
3 Krosan Grip
3 Kitchen Finks
-Volrath's Stronghold might get cut. It's been a long-time basic, but I feel it only improves good matchups (control) and gets you colorscewed too often.
-Many people like to run a full playset of Crushers, but I really tried to limit the curve as much as possible. I tried 4 Crushers and 1 Vore, but I missed Vore's raw power and got screwed too often because of Crusher's antisynergy with DDreams and SAssault.
-I realise that Maelstrom Pulse is expensive, but I feel I need to have an answer to Planeswalkers besides burning or attacking them.
-I guess the Finks could be Firespouts, but I've been boarding the Ouphes in against so much more than just fast aggro. I love swapping them with Vores against decks that I expect to have a lot of SB graveyard hate. It leaves you with a deck that isn't even all that vulnerable to GY removal.
-I used to run a Firespout as a wishtarget, but even in that role it hardly ever got me anywhere and I never picked it so it got axed for Shattering Spree, wich is way more usefull.
Comments are always welcome, obviously.
Why can't it be extirpated? Punishing Fire's return is a triggered ability, they can respond to it with extirpate. You'd have to have two groves out to be tricky where you can tap the 2nd in response to have them gain one life and trigger in-response to extirpate, but at that point they would know better and can just wait until you tap the 2nd one.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Witness isn't as bad as you make it seem, but it pushes the deck in a more control-oriented direction. You have to build to it if you want it to be effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Hitting the opponent with Fires and then getting it back requires 1RR, of which one R is guaranteed from Grove. Hitting the opponent with more than one Fires requires an additional 1RR for each extra Fires, of which none of the red mana are guaranteed unless you have multiple Groves. This is contrast to Assault, which is RRR up front and requires no additional red mana afterwards (although you do need at least one green mana per time you cast Loam).
Between the two of them, I kind of prefer Assault. Extirpate is mostly a non-issue. Actually, how prevalent is graveyard hate right now?
Well, when I show up to a tournament, I get hated out at times. But, there's also two (2! ffs) 43 Land players, so Extirpate for me is a bit common. I usually end up siding out 1-2 Lftl against the 4 Extirpate plan, and I still get there. Big creatures still seem to get there.
As for the 2 Bayou 1 Badlands split, more often you'll need Green for Loam and Black for removal in times of desperation. Green allows you to play real threats (Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Sylvan Library) or much needed removal or Loam.
-Matt
After playing a dozen or so games online, I think I may drop Grove/Fires for EE and a Buried Ruin. PFire has been decent in game 1, but once they board in hate, it just turns into a shitty Shock. I think EE/Ruin, while more mana intensive, has the potential to be much more flexible, and EE is a lot more useful as a single-use under a Leyline.
Ok, it can be Extirpated. If you're playing correctly, it shouldn't be. The Extirpate is just an example anyway. Extirpate is probably the best GY hate card to play against Loam and even it is underpowered compared to Fires. Extirpate* Loam and Assault starts to look pretty bad. Extirpate Loam and Fires doesn't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
*Insert any GY hate here.
Remember, you can also split these up over turns. You can leave a Fires in the yard if you need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
GY hate may be low, but Enchantment hate is still seeing reasonable amounts of play.
Look at it this way: why are you playing Assault? Typically, the answer is that it is a late game threat that can be used with Loam to fairly quickly finish someone. It isn't particularly useful at dealing with early creatures and typically isn't used to deal with big creatures because it's probably better just to go to the dome. It can sort of deal with swarms, but only with Loam and a good amount of mana. If you're looking for big creature kill and/or swarm kill, there are better cards in the deck already to handle that. That leaves us with late-game finisher. And Assault is great at that. (I do think that you're underestimating the amount of mana that Assault takes though. 1G only does 6 a turn and you lose a draw step. If you really want to end it fast, you'll need a lot more mana than that to cycle lands and get back Loam)
What does Fires do that Assault does? It ends the game, albeit slower. No question here. Fires is much slower than Assault.
But, what does Fires do that Assault does not? It gets those early creatures that can be a hassle to deal with. It kills Bob. It kills Noble. It kills SFM. It wins Goyf wars. All of those nuisance creatures you don't really want to waste a Pulse/Vindicate on but still need to be dealt with. All of that for 1R, not RRR or 1RR. You can just leave the Fires in the yard until you get a Grove or need to get it back.
What about answers to them:
Assault:
Krosan Grip
Pithing Needle
Extirpate/Surgical Extraction, etc... (on Loam)
Qasali Pridemage
Fires:
?
Really, there are very few good answers to Fires.
*shrug* I just think it's worth exploring. I've played a lot of Assault and when it is rolling, it is very good. But I've also been disappointed in Assault.
You ever get
Seismic Assault
+
Dark Confidant
out?
Its sort of like a throat punch. Also, turn 2 seismic is the only way you can ever expect to win against Time Spiral. Turn 2 seismic with loam is the only way you're ever beating storm. Seismic assault is insane. and yeah, its brittle against some hate but thats why you can just board it out for your sideboard techs that are ringers for whatever match it is you're facing. Against swarming dudes? Board seismic out for Pernicious deed and head their graveyard hate off at the pass. Against blue control? Board them out for Pyroblasts.
I tried playing fires instead of bolt and found that its dog shit. My percentage against merfolk instantly went down by about twenty percent.
Woah, you board out Assault for Deed? You don't rawdog BOTH?
-Matt
Extirpate/Surgical Extraction do get rid of Fires. It's just as vulnerable to targeted GY hate as Loam is.
Then you're not playing Fires right.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
There is always an opportunity to Extirpate them in response to the life gain trigger.
With two, though, it's nearly impossible.
-Matt
against some matchups, i do just board out 2 cycling lands and a mox for deed. But it all depends.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt