[Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

@White border: That's how I find my bayou lol I don't have a fbb one yet. BB cards are where it's at though...

E. Witness is rarely used when I play PSI because the situation never comes up where I have infinite mana + witness to do something. In some cases witness is an MVP at other times it's just a dead card.

Yeah racking up storm isn't that hard for me. I usually get far and beyond 10 storm when playing this deck due to the ability to cast so much stuff lol. Pact into cutter ramps up storm +2 for 1 card essentially and then there's always moxen, rituals, and one D4 can get you a lethal tendrils afterwards quite easily and when you cast 2 D4's it usually results in at least 9 storm and at that point casting tendrils wins you the game.

The burnt offering idea is intriguing to me but how to fit it into a list is the problem. Such a list would be BGr because burnt offering can add red mana for burning wish and EtW.

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I can see your point. There are a lot of times where I draw Witness and it's dead, but this deck requires such a small number of cards to initially start a chain that the pros of just having Eternal Winess in my deck outweigh the cons of having it in my hand. The only reason I would ever be actively mad about drawing it is when I want to naturally cast a Hellbent Infernal Tutor.

It's not hard to go into the stratosphere with your storm count, but for me, Drawing more Culling the Weak than I have targets for it feels safer than having no forests to cast Skyshroud Cutter with or not being able to go off turn one because my opponent has more life than they started out with. I'm trying to get to the point where I can push wins out of thin air and it just seems more difficult to me if I have to add that to things to think about.

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Originally Posted by DerFern

agreed 100%

well, that´s why it´s in there...

even though I do agree on the choice to draw 4 insted of Belcher, have you ever reylly encountered a situation where Belcher would not deal enough damage because of your slim library?! Either way, don´t forget that you can stack the cards after your Belcher activation. Just put an LED on top and repeat next turn.

well, most of the time one of those 11 cards would be an ESG or one of your lands, so this calculation is not completely correct. Anyway, when you´re able to play your complete opening hand and the cards from your d4, how the hell would you still not win?!

that´s why I play SI ;) there ain´t no other deck that can mulligan to 5 without any problems or to 4 which gets a little crucial. Either way, knowing when to mulligan is one of the most important things to learn with this deck.

what exactly do you mean with "stacking"? Changing the order of cards in your deck or creating it some way that it´s not completely randomized is cheating... don´t do it! This deck has so much mana that any card from the top with a Belcher on the battlefield could win you the game. On a sidenote, the only situation where you want to shoot at a critter is a lying Quasali Pridemage with no mana available on his side... should be very rare.

Oh, and my Bayou is black bordered ;)

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The scenario about Charbelcher is that you may be forced to activate it while your land is in your deck. If your land is the 21st card down, you win. If you cast Cruel Bargain, it becomes the 17th card down. You deal 16 and you fizzle. You're more likely to do that than you are to draw the land with a D4 you didn't need to cast.

I've drawn hands where all 11 of my cards were spells that I was able to cast. It's rare, but it happens.

Regarding the "stacking," when you activate Charbelcher, you put all of the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order. I think there's something to actually changing the order of the cards as you put them at the bottom. If you don't have to search your library between activations, you will eventually know the order of your library, and how you order your cards will determine your next draws. I just haven't thought about it enough to make that something I can do.

When I play sideboarded games, I have three lands in my deck. I've had some games against Merfolk where I didn't want to risk whiffing on my activation and dying to lethal damage, so I used the 'Belcher to gun down fish before I aimed them at my opponent. I would've lost, too; the first activation that killed his Coralhelm Commander was for 8 damage.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

@White border: That's how I find my bayou lol I don't have a fbb one yet. BB cards are where it's at though...

E. Witness is rarely used when I play PSI because the situation never comes up where I have infinite mana + witness to do something. In some cases witness is an MVP at other times it's just a dead card.

Yeah racking up storm isn't that hard for me. I usually get far and beyond 10 storm when playing this deck due to the ability to cast so much stuff lol. Pact into cutter ramps up storm +2 for 1 card essentially and then there's always moxen, rituals, and one D4 can get you a lethal tendrils afterwards quite easily and when you cast 2 D4's it usually results in at least 9 storm and at that point casting tendrils wins you the game.

The burnt offering idea is intriguing to me but how to fit it into a list is the problem. Such a list would be BGr because burnt offering can add red mana for burning wish and EtW.

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I've constructe and tested a B/g version, and I don't believe a B/g/r version is playable because the deck can't support Badlands or Simian Spirit Guide for Empty the Warrens or Burning Wish because every B/r dual land decreases the odds of resolving Skyshroud Cutter.

I'm not certain Skyshroud cutter is all that bad tho', compared to Dryad Arbor you actually get to make and keep your land drop for the turn, and Pact SI manages with it well enough. Also the post-board Rushwood Legate feels a lot like cheating, altho' I think I'd board out Burnt Offering for Xantid Swarm vs. blue it's still a pretty sweet Summoner's Pact target.

Yeah, I agree drawing multiple Cullings is terrible, but then again increasing the number of 1 B rituals is really tempting for consistency. Considering you can sort of mesh your fodder with a combination of Skyshroud Cutter and the Dryad Arbor/Odious Troll plan I think it's worth a shot just to see how it gold fishes.

If multiple culling the weaks is throwing off your game I would suggest you try Tukatongue Thallid. He allows you to culling and still have a creature so that later cullings are not dead draws. I cant even begin to explain as well how awesome double culling hands become when you pact for thallid.

I play him in my trow spot since i dont often want to pact for a black source and I really like that he is reusable, allowing for 3 creatures in a single turn if i play arbor as my land for the turn. Cullings are almost never dead.

@Namida

I'm really glad for you that you realized all those things. Playing a lot of games with SI in general you will hit a threshold, where after you hit it playing the deck becomes second nature to you, and you realize just how bonkers it is.

I'm still advocating witness, I am rarely displeased to draw it. The card really is bonkers, I would never cut it.

And my bayou is WB also, makes it much easier to find.

Allright, I have been testing with the deck alot lately (mostly online because I still miss 4 LED's =(! )

The main has been working very well for me, I play IGG instead of Slithermuse. Witness,Cantor and cutter as creatures (arbor aswell ofcourse) and for the rest pretty much the same as the list in the OP.

What I want to talk about is the sideboard.

First off I started with:
4 carpet of flowers
4 xantid swarm
3 duress
2 charbelcher
2 tomb of ulamog

Okay, so I quickly got rid of the tombs after some games against Landstill and Countertop where after alot of turns I activate belcher and it misfires. Also what I found very important: yea they board out their spot removal mostly, but they dont board out Jace or EE so they can get rid of your token so easy...

Alright so then I replaced the tombs with 2 deathmark. And I was not satisfied with those aswell. I just did not use them.. The only deck against which I got to use them was Affinity because he dropped Ethersworn canonist on turn one. Then I figured: would nature's claim do the trick? Yea it does. So I went with 2 claims, and those worked awesome. I just wanted 1 extra so I had more chance to get 2 in my hand at some point so that when playing vs CB+TOP, and he doesnt find a 1 cmc when he spins the top, he would tap it to put it on top and I would respond to that with another claim. So I had to cut 1 slot, carpet or xantid? Against landstill and cb-top etc I like carpet the most, but vs merfolk carpet kinda blows tbh. So in a meta with alot of merfolk I would play 3 carpet, 4 swarm. In a meta with more landstill and cbtop I would play 4 carpet, 3 swarm.

Do you all agree with my line of thinking?

My line of thinking is entirely different. To me, the issues you're having stem from a difference in play style that is required when you sideboard.

You're trying to gain an incremental advantage over a blue player. The way you do this is by constantly casting cards like Carpet and Xantid Swarm, in addition to your D4s and the ilk--your deck is filled with cards that they can't let resolve, as they give you such an advantage. This style of play is difficult if they can just counter your first D4 and set you back 5 turns since you had to use Lotus Petal to cast your cards. In this way, playing more lands is beneficial...And if you're going to play lands, why not play lands that are actually threats?

Playing Tomb of Urami means that you're playing another threat that they'll have difficulty dealing with--I feel like we have to understand that opponents will be playing fewer cards to answer creatures, but they won't ever just be cold to Urami. Even then, you're playing Duress; you should be able to clear the way for Urami so you can guarantee that he hits once or twice (it may not kill your opponent, but it will make it easier for Belcher to not misfire if you need a quick kill--see below). And if you're genuinely just worried that your opponent has the solution, don't activate the Tomb. As I said above, the incremental advantage plan is difficult if you lack permanent mana sources.

Given this incremental plan, usually, if you resolve Charbelcher and you have access to three mana a turn, you win. In my opinion, the goal is to gain enough of an advantage over your opponent where you can consistently hit them with the Charbelcher. In this way, it should be noted that you shouldn't play the deck like you play it game 1 where you can just go for broke, get seven mana, throw down the Belcher, "Hope you don't have Force," fill Belcher with your hopes and dreams, and let 'er ride. The ability to *consistently* have mana to cast spells and activate Belcher is key, if you want to consistently win. The extra lands help to facilitate the ability to cast Charbelcher, and to activate it multiple times, so I wouldn't take them out.

That all being said--I don't play Nature's Claim in my sideboard, but I am wholly aware of the risk that causes. You won't always kill on turn one, and some people play cards like Leyline of Sanctity.

I have a challenge.

Mix the ant + spanish inquisition + belcher deck's

With this cards

for combo:
1 ad nauseam
1 Tendrils of agony
1 goblin charbelcher (most possible remove)
1 enduring reneewal
1 disciple of the vault
1 grinding station
1 ill-gotten gain

for mana:
4 Lotus petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the wak
1 Phyrexian Altar

cost 0:
4 shifting wall
4 ornithopter
4 shield sphere
4 Phyrexian marauder

for search
4 Diabolic intent
4 lim-dul's vault

Lands:
1 Phyrexian tower?

Suggestions for complete?
4 brainstorm?
Land Grant?
Lands?
or very expensive
Mox?
Glimpse of nature


Inspiration:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=67633
+
ANT deck

Thanks, great community ;)

I played exact copy of Marit's list to day (12 people) fun thing was that it was 11 diffrent decks.

1th match i win roll,
I know the opponent and i know i face merfolk, he force my first try and i dont manage started a second time.
game 2 and 3 i have my whole sideboard, he didnt have a chance.

2th match i win roll,
he was my nabour match game before so i know he play goblins, nice.
i 1turn belcher and i dont get any mana for 3 more turns to activate. As i know he play goblins i regret i didt slowplay this one.
game two i mull down to 4 and he kills me turn before i can kill him pilldrivers or what ever is a pain in the ass.
mental note, was correct to put down null cost artifacts on the play vs him.

3th match vs counterthopter i also here know my opponent, we now get message that only 3-1 will bring you to top4.
he mull to 6 and i keep a hand i shouldnt, but i chicken out thanks to the game before. regret this.
he force first attemt and slowly grind me to death.
game two i side it all in and lose to force backup after a canonist.
resolved counterbalance is a pain in the ass.

4th match was vs Zoo, friend of mine. he started both.
Slowrole him and kill him eacy.
game two was a first turn tendrils kill. So fun when they show you there hate they didnt managed to play =)

I was almoust high on adrealin after i won vs merfolk match 1 and felt very unlucky vs goblins and shit mulligen ruined it vs Counterbalance, Zoo was a walk in the park (we both knew after alot of play testing)

top4 was 2 counterbalance, goblins, and reanimator. finals was mirror CB

fun as hell, just wish i could do this every week. I have goldfished this deck ALOT and now i will start goldfish it with smaller and smaller starting hands so i get used to mulligans.

Hey guys, I'm new to the source, but I've been watching and goldfishing this deck for a while now.
I have a question about mulligans. If you'd draw a good hand that just needs, for example, one more Ritual, would you keep that, or just mulligan to a guaranteed T1 kill?

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Originally Posted by Elvoz

Hey guys, I'm new to the source, but I've been watching and goldfishing this deck for a while now.
I have a question about mulligans. If you'd draw a good hand that just needs, for example, one more Ritual, would you keep that, or just mulligan to a guaranteed T1 kill?

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depends on what piece you´re missing, which mulligan it is and whether you´re on the play/draw. It´s quite hard to give a good rule of thumb but in general, if your starting 7 is missing one piece it SHOULD be better to take a mulligan. SI is a deck which has to be mulled aggressively in order to work, especially since one of our main weapons is surprise... and fear... and... yeah, you know that stuff.

On a side note: I played in a 49people tournament yesterday with my PSI list. It was a great meta choice since about 2/3 of the field were expected to be Zoo, Goblins and Merfolk. And guess what, 2/3 of the field WERE aggro decks. All of my teammates played some sort of (aggro-)control and had a tough day beating creatures. Me on the other side got paired against Uwr ScepterChant, Ub Show&Tell/Doomsday, Team America, another u.based control deck, ITF and Junk. About 15 people in the room played decks that COULD disrupt me and I´ve got paired against 5 of them. Nice... Guess it´s time to set combo aside and start playing tempo. Sadface.

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Originally Posted by DerFern

depends on what piece you´re missing, which mulligan it is and whether you´re on the play/draw. It´s quite hard to give a good rule of thumb but in general, if your starting 7 is missing one piece it SHOULD be better to take a mulligan. SI is a deck which has to be mulled aggressively in order to work, especially since one of our main weapons is surprise... and fear... and... yeah, you know that stuff.

On a side note: I played in a 49people tournament yesterday with my PSI list. It was a great meta choice since about 2/3 of the field were expected to be Zoo, Goblins and Merfolk. And guess what, 2/3 of the field WERE aggro decks. All of my teammates played some sort of (aggro-)control and had a tough day beating creatures. Me on the other side got paired against Uwr ScepterChant, Ub Show&Tell/Doomsday, Team America, another u.based control deck, ITF and Junk. About 15 people in the room played decks that COULD disrupt me and I´ve got paired against 5 of them. Nice... Guess it´s time to set combo aside and start playing tempo. Sadface.

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Am I missing the point ^^? You say it yourself: it was a great meta choice, you just got unlucky with the pairings! So why not play it again and hope for better parings :)?

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

Am I missing the point ^^? You say it yourself: it was a great meta choice, you just got unlucky with the pairings! So why not play it again and hope for better parings :)?

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Seems like the right choice, yeah.

I'm planning on taking this to a tournament in Osaka at the end of the week. Here's to hoping that there aren't too many Force of Will there! I feel like I can consistently win on turn two with Charbelcher, so hopefully that will be good enough. I can push turn ones, but it seems like the risk is rarely worth it because it often requires Summoner's Pact and a little wandering in the dark, or would be a sure thing if you got to untap and use your land again or something.

Yeah, unless you're really pressured to go off turn 1, going off turn 2 with this deck is usually a piece of cake for me because getting just one more card in hand can be game breaking. But yeah, you really need to learn to mulligan with this deck for it to be good because it mulligans really aggressively. If a hand is shit, throw it back and try again is generally the strategy. 6 cards isn't that much worse than 7 in PSI.

I'd say that I'm okay with my ability to mulligan, but I'm not overly aggressive with it. I've been able to win off of 4 card hands before, but generally I hate the amount of luck I need on my side once I go below 6 cards. There are a lot of cards in the deck that are dead one-ofs that you don't want to see until you need them, and the deck can get away with it because you only need three of your cards in your opening hand to be playable to make it a keepable one. But this leads to some hands where you get something like Land Grant, Dryad Arbor, Slithermuse, Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond, Eternal Witness, Tendrils of Agony. As a result, I'm more likely to mulligan 7 card hands that don't allow me to do something backbreaking on my first turn, but I don't want to draw a 5 card hand similar to the aforementioned example and I'm therefore inclined to keep a hand missing one mana or something, and hope that the density of the cards in my deck that can do what I need will allow me to naturally draw it in the next turn or so.

I'm also more likely to keep hands with a clear path to victory, even if it would take more than one turn. Like, in this example: Land Grant, Summoner's Pact, Culling the Weak, Goblin Charbelcher, Lion's Eye Diamond, Slithermuse, Tendrils of Agony. Your first five cards will let you activate Charbelcher on turn two with no lands in your deck, should nothing hinder you in the one turn your opponent has to disrupt you. Would you keep it? If you know you're playing against a deck with no real disruption, probably, but would you keep it against a deck that may possibly be able to hinder you?

So, I played in a tournament in Osaka today. I have no sense of direction so it took me all day to find the place.

Anyway, I took PSI. I played what appears to be the current stock list:

1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
1 Odious Trow
4 Land Grant
2 Manamorphose
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
1 Eternal Witness
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Slithermuse
2 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony

SB
2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Tomb of Urami
3 Duress
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Xantid Swarm

I went 2-1 and took 10th place out of about 25 people. We only played three rounds because everything in Japan shuts down at midnight. If they hadn't cut the tournament short, I would've missed the last train home, so I can't be too mad. But on to the report.

Round 1- GW Vial Aggro

I win the roll, and I mull to five in game one. I don't play cards for a while, but I try to combo off the turn before I die. I evoke Slithermuse to draw five cards after casting a lot of spells, but the cards I draw are worthless. Game two, my hand is 2 Dark Ritual, 2 Infernal Contract, 2 Summoner's Pact, and 1 Manamorphose. I feel like it's risky, but I decide that I probably deserve to lose if I can't win after drawing 8 extra cards, so I keep the hand and combo on turn one. Game three, my opponent mulls down to 1. It turns out he was mulling for Leyline of Sanctity, which he never saw. I cast a turn two Charbelcher and I have the mana to activate it three times, but the first activation is all I need.

2-1
1-0-0

Round 2-UR Sneak-Show

This guy plays Force of Will. That probably sums up what happened in game one, but there was still a bit of a battle here worth talking about. I apply a lot of pressure, and he's got a lot of answers. At one point, he goes to no cards in hand to Force a spell I play. He has Sneak Attack in Play, and he draws Emrakul to take me down to five and make me sacrifice my lands. However, my hand is the shit, and if I can draw just *one* way to make a single black mana, I can cast Charbelcher and win the game. I don't get there that turn, and every subsequent turn he seems to draw the Force of Will he needs to stop me, and he just hardcasts it. He's lost so much life from countering my spells and playing fetchlands that I'm seriously considering Odious Trow as a win condition until he topdecks the Progenitus he needs to kill me. Game two, Urami joins the fray on turn two, and wrecks my opponent's day. On the last turn of the game before he dies, I'm at 9 and he's at 2. He plays Show and Tell, and shows me Progenitus. Turns out my opponent hadn't realized that Urami flies, but I don't know if this effected how he played. Game three, I keep a hand that only needs a little gas to get there. I run him out of cards on my first turn because I play Duress, Xantid Swarm, and Carpet of Flowers. He counters all of it but the Carpet. I probably should've played my spells in a different order, because I led with Duress, which he had countered because he had the turn three Emrakul.

1-2
1-1-0

Round 3-UBr Dreadstalker

Game one, I draw 14 cards before my opponent's second turn. I win this game, but only by the grace of God because I make a huge mistake. I'm at two life and I have Goblin Charbelcher, Dryad Arbor, Bayou, and a Chrome Mox in play. My opponent has Dark Confidant and some lands in play.
I activate Charbelcher, using an LED I play on my turn. In activating LED, I discard two more LED. My opponent Stifles my Charbelcher activation. When I don't immediately concede, he realizes that I can block his Confidant, and he concedes. Why he didn't attack with the Confidant to force me to rely on my next draws to give me mana, or to see if I would whiff on my activation...I don't know. Game two, I mull to three. My opponent casts Thoughtseize on me twice. I would've subsequently been able to cast Charbelcher if my opponent hadn't stripped my hand, but it happens. I die to a Dreadnaught at 12 life. Game three, I have the Charbelcher early, but I want to play around Stifle because I haven't seen my opponent cast any counters in any of our games. My opponent casts a Dark Confidant early in the game, and apparently has Lightning Bolt in his deck now, which he's targeting me with (assumedly because of the Contracts/Bargains in the deck, I think). Unfortunately for my opponent, while I'm trying to set up the ability to activate Charbelcher twice, Dark Confidant reveals 2 Fire//Ice and a Tombstalker. He reveals Tombstalker the same turn that I am able to activate Charbelcher twice, and I only need to deal one damage to him to seal the game.

2-1
2-1-0

Watching people's faces when they realized what I was doing...It was priceless.

The only gripe I have with SI is that Cruel Bargain is stupid expensive. It's exactly the same as Infernal Contract but costs a fuck load more. Am I missing something here? Portal is meh. WTF man.

@ryl417: It is WAY more rare.

Ran my list from a few pages back at the Vestal tourney yesterday, with the SB changed to include the Blooms side and ESG main. That was a mistake, and I proved it by going 2-5. I replaced that slot with 4 Land Grant and cut a Walker for the singleton Bayou. Three goldfishes and I'm sold. It's so much easier to get initial mana with seventeen sources instead of twelve, and that is one thing that aggravated me about the hands I mulled away.

Turns out the meta was extremely unfriendly towards the deck yesterday, even though I only faced one Countertop Jace list. I was surrounded by Jace mirrors. Countertop and Jace were everywhere. Not to mention my own misplays that led to losses.

Portal cards do that. I picked mine up when they were cheaper than they are now at like $12ish a pop. But yeah you certainly need them to play this deck optimally.

Nice report Namida. The UR sneaky show dude got so lucky against you it must be nice for him. I LOLed hard when I read what happened with dark confidant in the last round; double fire//ice, tombstalker. Nice draws pal and no brainstorm to prevent it.

I might have missed it on the previous pages but how does an updated D7 list look like?

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Originally Posted by ryl417

The only gripe I have with SI is that Cruel Bargain is stupid expensive. It's exactly the same as Infernal Contract but costs a fuck load more. Am I missing something here? Portal is meh. WTF man.

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E-bay that shit man. I got my playset for an average of 6 USD each just because literally no one else is looking for them.

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Originally Posted by ryl417

The only gripe I have with SI is that Cruel Bargain is stupid expensive. It's exactly the same as Infernal Contract but costs a fuck load more. Am I missing something here? Portal is meh. WTF man.

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Portal was a non US release I believe making it harder to find those cards int he US, and making them more expensive.

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Originally Posted by ryl417

The only gripe I have with SI is that Cruel Bargain is stupid expensive. It's exactly the same as Infernal Contract but costs a fuck load more. Am I missing something here? Portal is meh. WTF man.

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Oddly enough...I bought my Cruel Bargains from a well-known retailer for like 8 bucks each...And I bought Infernal Contracts from my local card store for 4 bucks each. I guess these numbers are just way off--but I did this in like July, so you might be lucky and find them cheap somewhere.

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Originally Posted by ryl417

I might have missed it on the previous pages but how does an updated D7 list look like?

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From what I heard, the D7 idea just wouldn't work.

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Originally Posted by Beatusnox

Portal was a non US release I believe making it harder to find those cards int he US, and making them more expensive.

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This is only true for Portal: Three Kingdoms. Furthermore, it is only true for the English Edition. I've run into so many P3K cards here in Japan that I'm buying crap like Zodiac Dragons and the ilk that I'm hoping to turn into good profit when I get home.

Another Legacy Tournament is being held in Osaka on the 14th of March, I believe; We'll see how I do.

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Originally Posted by Namida

Oddly enough...I bought my Cruel Bargains from a well-known retailer for like 8 bucks each...And I bought Infernal Contracts from my local card store for 4 bucks each. I guess these numbers are just way off--but I did this in like July, so you might be lucky and find them cheap somewhere.



From what I heard, the D7 idea just wouldn't work.



This is only true for Portal: Three Kingdoms. Furthermore, it is only true for the English Edition. I've run into so many P3K cards here in Japan that I'm buying crap like Zodiac Dragons and the ilk that I'm hoping to turn into good profit when I get home.

Another Legacy Tournament is being held in Osaka on the 14th of March, I believe; We'll see how I do.

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Thank you for the correction I was unsure of if it was outside US for all of them or not. And you might turn a nice price off of the people who do not look up prices, but apparently non-english printings of PTK cards sell much lower because of higher print runs.

Actually on topic, I am currently proxying this deck up to test and determine if I want to play this or my Counterstill deck. I dont know which build I want to run though, so I am testing them all ^^

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Originally Posted by Beatusnox

Thank you for the correction I was unsure of if it was outside US for all of them or not. And you might turn a nice price off of the people who do not look up prices, but apparently non-english printings of PTK cards sell much lower because of higher print runs.

Actually on topic, I am currently proxying this deck up to test and determine if I want to play this or my Counterstill deck. I dont know which build I want to run though, so I am testing them all ^^

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It's more that I'm finding expensive Japanese P3K cards at 40% of their value, even if they aren't the English print run. A Japanese Burning of Xinye is ten dollars less than an English one, but I don't have a problem with that when the card I bought was 80% off.

I would advise that you become very familiar with the Land Grant version of this deck before you try out the other ones. At the least, I would recommend not starting out with the Pact Deck. I got laughed out of my local game store when I first started playing this deck because I didn't know what I was doing. It might be that I had never played Storm before, but there are a lot of interactions that only became apparent to me after an almost religious level of goldfishing. LGSI gets your foot into the door without making you feel completely stupid because you can't figure out how on earth someone could consistently not lose to Pact or drawing 3 Culling the Weak with no creatures.

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Originally Posted by Namida

It's more that I'm finding expensive Japanese P3K cards at 40% of their value, even if they aren't the English print run. A Japanese Burning of Xinye is ten dollars less than an English one, but I don't have a problem with that when the card I bought was 80% off.

I would advise that you become very familiar with the Land Grant version of this deck before you try out the other ones. At the least, I would recommend not starting out with the Pact Deck. I got laughed out of my local game store when I first started playing this deck because I didn't know what I was doing. It might be that I had never played Storm before, but there are a lot of interactions that only became apparent to me after an almost religious level of goldfishing. LGSI gets your foot into the door without making you feel completely stupid because you can't figure out how on earth someone could consistently not lose to Pact or drawing 3 Culling the Weak with no creatures.

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Thanks for the Advice, will definitely consider running the less hard-core version for starters.

I'm going to a local tourney tomorrow, taking my SI - Tallmen build. Just reread some of this thread, I quite miss discussion on the tallmen-version, seems its all Pact-discussions over here. Maybe to give the tallmen version a new boost, here is my decklist for tomorrow, maybe Ill post a small report afterwards:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Tomb of Urami
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Shield Sphere
2 Phyrexian Walker
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Culling the Weak
4 Infernal Contract
1 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Cruel Bargain
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Land Grant
2 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor

sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Deathmark
1 Shattering Spree
1 Reverent Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Pyroclasm
1 Hull Breach
1 Ill-Gotten Gains

If you're playing Burning Wish/Red, is the number of times that you've blocked a 2/x with Phyrexian Walker higher than the number of times where you've wished that Phyrexian Walker could pitch to Mox? I'd suggest playing Kobolds over Walker. They pitch to Mox, which was part of the biggest issue I had with this version of the deck--that Tallmen don't help you win unless you're sacrificing them to Culling the Weak. Shield Sphere is so good at blocking things that I wouldn't be too adamant to cut it for Kobolds, but it's still understandable that one might care more about being proactive and cut them for more Kobolds. I feel like being able to block Dark Confidant for multiple turns isn't as important as being able to make mana in clutch situations.

All of the reports I have read have been about Pact, too, so I I'd like to read a report about other lists. If you can, could you try to note if you run into any situations where having Tallmen put the game in your favor, and any situations where you would've been better off with something like Summoner's Pact?

Robots were replaced with Kobolds more or less, I wouldn't use robots unless you plan on using Vault of Whispers and Mox Opal in a mono-black, disruptionless SI deck that's built to gold fish ASAP

Went 2-3 in a 33 man tourney couple of weeks ago with the list above. This was mainly because I met a lot of blue decks on the way.
I started off nice against a guy that played a deck I still dont get, with orims chant, academy ruins, SoFI, brainstorm, ponder etc.
Game 1 I made 26 goblin tokens turn 1. That was kinda nice...
Game 2 I went for lethal Tendrils somewhere around turn 2 or 3 using IGG, dont quite remember.

Second match was against a guy playing Dredge. This was very close and great fun! I knew what he was playing and he knew my deck, because during match 1 he was sitting next to me.
Game 1 I made 20 Goblin tokens. He had Putrid Imp on the table, but couldnt go off.
Game 2, I didnt have a turn 1 kill and he went off turn 2 killing me with lethal zombies...
Game 3 I kept a hand with a D4 but otherwise light in business. The D4 turned out magnificent, resulting in a turn 1 kill via IGG loop...

After that, it all went downhill.
Third match was against Merfolk. Pfff
I won the first game making 18 Goblins. He had no answer...
Game 2 and 3 I lost. He was playing a strange build with Stifle and Dreadnought. It sucked.

Fourth game against Dreadstill, another blue deck. Game 1 lost by Bob-beatdown and Jace fatesealing me out.
Game 2 I got Xantid Swarm turn 1. Kept a hand with Belcher and 1 mana short of casting it. Drew like about 6 or 7 cards, not 1 freakin mana! He managed to get EE, then dreadnought and stifle ended the job.

Fifth game against ANT.
Game 1 another turn 1 kill. I only saw him play Island and ponder so I didnt know his deck.
Game 2 He went off pretty soon, now I knew he was playing ANT.
Game 3 I had to mull 2 times, kept a hand with Tomb of Urami. I got in 1 hit, bringing his life down to 10. He then had to go off, and managed to get a Tendrils off AN while he was at 5, so with just 1 life he killed me. One more swing with my flyer would have sealed the deal. Alas.

I didnt play round 6 because I was disappointed and wanted to be home for dinner. Some conclusions
- decent number of T1 kills
- lots of blue in the meta
- IGG won me some games
- Kobolds would have never been better than this build
- I never used utility cards in the sideboard via Burning Wish other than killcards like Tendrils or EtW or IGG
- Xantid Swarm is great T1
- Put this deck on a shelve untill blue isnt the most played colour in legacy!

Im signing off and will develop some blue decks like NO Show and Spiral Tide...

I went 2-3 with the Pact List in a tournament in Osaka today, but that was almost in its entirety because I lost to myself a few times. Let me explain.

This is the deck I played.

1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
1 Odious Trow
4 Land Grant
2 Manamorphose
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
1 Eternal Witness
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Slithermuse
2 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony

SB
2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Tomb of Urami
3 Duress
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Xantid Swarm

Round 1-Burn

Game 1-I go for broke on turn one, draw a lot of cards. Sadly, none of those cards win the game for me, and I end the turn at 2 life. My opponent untaps and Lava Spikes me. Burn it is!

Game 2-Turn 2 Charbelcher activation with no lands in my deck.

Game 3-He mulls to four. There is almost no way his hand could ever be bad, so he's obviously mulling for Leyline of Sanctity or Mindbreak Trap. I pray to every deity that he's playing Trap, because my deck has no answer to Leyline in the side or main, and my hand is perfect for playing around a Trap. He doesn't slam a Leyline down, so I play two spells a turn until I'm able to kill him on Turn 3 with a Charbelcher activation with no land in my deck.

1-0

Round 2-Infect

Game 1-He Thoughtseizes me Turn 1, and takes an Infernal Tutor. I proceed to draw another one, evoke Slithermuse, and draw so many cards that I could not lose.

Game 2-I go down to 4 life from D4s. He plays Invigorate on his Dark Confidant to let me know that he's playing Infect, then swings in with it. I might have been able to kill him when I untapped, but he flashed the Invigorate like it killed me outright, so I scooped without double checking. I just looked the card up right now, and I would've been at one, barring any more pump spells that he could have had. This isn't even the worse mistake I made--See below.

Game 3-I make the biggest mistake I have ever made. I manage to play out a really long chain to cast Charbelcher on turn 2 or so with no land in my deck. I have three mana sources in play. All I have to do is activate the damned thing and I win. My previous turn was so convoluted and long that I had forgotten that I played Summoner's Pact mid combo. I draw the card for my turn, and my opponent's hand literally flies into the air. No one around me seemed to know that losing the game is a completely legal choice for me to have made, but they eventually figured out that I lost. I definitely deserved the loss for being sloppy--all I had to do was activate Charbelcher in my upkeep. Well, I guess the experience taught me to never fuck that up again.

1-1

Round 3-Infect (again)

Same shit, different person.

Game 1-He puts me on Charbelcher when I cast Land Grant for my turn. I really wanted to kill him with Tendrils after that, but Charbelcher was more convenient.

Game 2-Time to explain another mistake! I play too conservatively, basically. I literally cast a Turn 1 Charbelcher and have LED to activate it. I still have two lands in my deck though, so I choose to wait until I can dig one out. I also drew a second LED, which makes this really bad. I needed to pull the trigger before he played his third land, and I didn't because Krosan Grip's existence slipped my mind until right after he makes his third land drop. And of course, he's got it. Belcher meets Grip, and I meet my demise via poison.

Game 3-I get my revenge when my opponent seems to think that Elvish Spirit Guide is the most important card in my hand as he casts Thoughtseize. I untap, evoke Slithermuse, and Tendrils kills him.

Round 4-Aggro Loam

Game 1-My opponent plays Turn 1 Chalice for 0. My hand is filled with cards that cost 0. I sit there and watch him kill me so I can figure out what else he's playing.

Game 2-Turn 0 Leyline. I have no card that can deal with this Leyline. I T1 Infernal Tutor with mana floating, so I almost consider getting Charbelcher and just activating it to kill his creatures so he can't kill me, but at the last second I make a good decision and cast Slithermuse instead. Hey guys, did you know that Slithermuse is a 3/3? I kill my opponent with Slithermuse, Dryad Arbor, and Elvish Spirit Guide. He reveals that he has Krosan Grip in his deck from dredging, so I realize that forcing a draw would also be difficult.

Game 3-I take a risk here. I've never used my sideboard other than against blue, so I make some something up on the fly. I know he's going to be mulliganning for the Leyline, so I side out all of my Tendrils, and I leave a Charbelcher in just for killing creatures (or him if I get lucky). I side in Duress and Tomb of Urami, because Urami is the biggest creature in my deck. My opponent Turn 0's a Leyline again. I'm pretty business light, so even after a few D4's, I have nothing to attack with. He casts Elspeth, and I'm at 5 so I'm basically dead barring a miracle. I've drawn a crowd at this point, and I think it's hilarious because I'm basically playing a deck that sits there and does nothing at all. Anyway, I don't give up hope, but I basically have to do a lot of convoluted shit with Eternal Witness so I can draw a whole lot of cards to finally be able to draw and activate Tomb of Urami to block. My opponent untaps and plays Maze of Ith. I literally cannot win this game. Next turn, my opponent plays Ajani Vengeant and Helixes me dead. This round was so ridiculous though, that I'm not even upset about it. I mean...I killed a guy when he had Leyline of Sanctity in play, when my main win conditions were definitely Charbelcher and Tendrils.

2-2

Round 5-Merfolk.

You already know what happened.

Game 1-Turn 1 FOW on my Culling the Weak when I played Pact to get Dryad Arbor. That's how it goes.

Game 2-Spell Pierce. Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. I of course put the whole sideboard in, and there was a point in the game when I knew that my opponent's hand contained no counterspells, and was about five creatures. I went off, and I could either search for Charbelcher and pray that I draw a third permanent mana source so I could kill my opponent's creatures and then him, or go for Urami, even though I knew he might be able to race me. I chose Urami, and got outraced by a pair of Coralhelm Commanders. What would you have done, if you had to make that choice?

2-3

The biggest thing that always stands out to me with this deck is that I often lose to inexperience. I'm apparently fortunate enough to not be paired against blue often or see a lot of combo hate or something, but I scrub out a lot. I guess it's back to work now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namida

The biggest thing that always stands out to me with this deck is that I often lose to inexperience. I'm apparently fortunate enough to not be paired against blue often or see a lot of combo hate or something, but I scrub out a lot. I guess it's back to work now!

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I can't stress this enough. Almost everyone of my losses in a tournament I can pin on myself, just some small misplay like not cracking my second LED to IT chain, so in response to tendrils for lethal he activates Mishra's Factory and STP's it ]=. This deck is not easy to play, and it isn't the least bit forgiving. That all being said, I would not play this in the current meta. As much as I love the deck, bringing it into a field of blue is never good times.

I'm currently testing this list:

1 Ill-gotten Gains
1 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
1 Eternal Witness
1 Odious Trow
1 Wild Cantor
3 Manamorphose
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

I'm not shure about the Witness. Everytime I draw her, it's not very helpfull in most of the situations.

My list is just -1Trow, -1 IGG, +1 Blecher, +1 Manamorphose.

Witness has been hit and miss for me too, but whenver I gget to use her, it's always a kill right there.

My list is just -1Trow, -1 IGG, +1 Belcher, +1 Manamorphose.

Witness has been hit and miss for me too, but whenver I get to use her, it's always a kill right there.

Honestly, I equate Eternal Witness to IGG/Slithermuse in this deck. You rarely want to draw it, but its functions as a card in your deck that you are able to search for are good enough to warrant its inclusion if you're comfortable enough with the deck to properly utilize it. I have cast the card in my hand for a multitude of reasons, but the main thing I do with it is Summoner's Pact, sac LED in response, and find it to continue going off if I ran out of cards. In this deck particularly, you can function off of such a low number of cards that a potentially dead draw like the aforementioned is more easily mitigated than in other combo decks. It has saved me countless times. If you're not comfortable with having the card in the deck, I would suggest you keep practicing with the card and see if it gets you anywhere.

So I'm back home, and I played in a GPT. I'm not going to the GP, but there aren't a lot of Legacy Tournaments in my area.

Round 1-Bye. There are only eight other players here, so I get to see what everyone else is playing. Four of the other players are packing Force of Will. Great.

Round 2-MUD.

Game 1-My opponent plays a turn one Ancient Tomb. On my turn, I spend about five minutes looking at my hand, and go off. I go all the way down to one life, and the *last* card I draw is a Charbelcher, so I kill him.

Game 2-Turn one Chalice, X is 1. My hand is all things that cost zero, so I manage to get a D4 off to draw into basically nothing. My opponent untaps, and casts Trinisphere. I concede.

Game 3-I mull to six, and my opponent does the same. I fear that my opponent will completely stop me again like he did in the last game, so I decide to go for it before my opponent gets his first turn. I keep a risky hand that will kill me if I don't draw perfectly off of my D4. I almost throw this game away because I almost didn't recognize the Tutor Chain line of play, since I have *never* done it before. My opponent shows me his hand--he had no disruption, and I pushed the T1 for basically nothing--but I did it.

Round 3-Team America.

Game 1-Slithermuse is a hero. I kill my opponent on turn one.

Game 2-I kill him on turn three or so because I draw a lot of Carpets against him.

Round 4-Merfolk.

Game 1-I kill my opponent in short order because Cursecatcher was his only disruption, and Cursecatcher isn't too strong against a hand with about a billion mana in it.

Game 2-My opponent mulls. I mull, too. I Duress him turn one, and take Force of Will (This is the only Force of Will I see all day). His hand is Vial, Land, Crypt, and two Reejereys, so I have three turns before he can do much of anything. I kill him with Charbelcher.

My opponent signs the matchslip wrong, and I sign it too, so I accidentally concede this match 0-2 for my opponent. But that's okay.

The top four turns out to be two people planning on attending the GP against the two people who don't intend to go, so we drop the tournament so they can play it out. Sadly, we didn't get word of the Prize Structure beforehand, because only first and second were supposed to get prize. Thanks to the judge we were able to at least argue our way to getting our entry fees back. But I don't care as much because this is the best I've performed with this deck.

I've learned a few things.
-You need a strong heart and gigantic balls to play this deck. My opponents knew what I was playing, but didn't work too hard to find Force of Will, so I 2-0'd all of my opponents packing blue. The Team America opponent definitely let me know that I was actually SOL if I let him play. His hand was double Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach.
-I need to keep track of my storm and mana better. My opponents helped me count my mana and storm, but it is something I need to work on doing in a tournament setting.
-I saw a Goblins player side in Leyline of the Void and kill an ANT player who could no longer IGG Loop for the kill. My last two opponents sided in Graveyard hate against me. It was wonderful, because it didn't do anything to me.
-I have no idea what to say when offering the post-match handshake to an opponent that didn't get to interact at all.

And one last question.

Against Merfolk, my opponent had a Vial at three and Vialed in a Kira. I considered killing one of his creatures, saying something along the lines of Kira being on the stack. My opponent corrected me, and told me that Kira went directly into play. If my opponent just taps Vial and throws a creature onto the field, I didn't get a chance to let my opponent know that I might want to respond, and I should be able to do something about this, right? In reality, I didn't consider Kira at all, but if I were more aware of what Merfolk decks play and needed to kill a creature, I'd definitely want to kill that creature before Vial's ability resolves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namida

Against Merfolk, my opponent had a Vial at three and Vialed in a Kira. I considered killing one of his creatures, saying something along the lines of Kira being on the stack. My opponent corrected me, and told me that Kira went directly into play. If my opponent just taps Vial and throws a creature onto the field, I didn't get a chance to let my opponent know that I might want to respond, and I should be able to do something about this, right? In reality, I didn't consider Kira at all, but if I were more aware of what Merfolk decks play and needed to kill a creature, I'd definitely want to kill that creature before Vial's ability resolves.

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Just tell your opponent that you wanted to react to his Vial activation, and call a judge if he doesn't take it back. Even though (if Im not mistaken) there's no such thing as Kira being on the stack once its vialed in, the fact that you said Kira is on the stack might imply that you agreed to have the vial trigger resolved so that makes it harder to plead your case with a judge. But you can still argue that you didn't have time to react to his Vial activation.

Played in an 82 man tourney in Vestal yesterday. Finished 3-4 due to some big mistakes (see below), some crap draw4s, and some times I should've mulliganed or boarded differently. Only one really bad matchup.

R1- Not sure what to call his deck as I didn't see any Smokestacks, but this was the worst matchup I had all day. MD Chalices, Trinisphere, Sol lands, Tangle Wire. It was painful for the entire table to watch my slow demise. Karn, Silver Golem threatened to destroy my entire board at one point. 0-2

0-1

R2- Hypergenesis combo
After this match he tells me he's giving up on Hypergenesis, and I don't blame him. Anyway, my turn 1 Belcher meets Force, and it's the only one I see all day. So I drop Swarm. Yes, I ran them main. Next turn I go to attack with Swarm, and he has spells to play before combat. I say Ok, and he cascades into Hypergenesis dropping Emrakul and Sakashima the Impostor copying Emrakul. Pretty impressive. Then I draw4 a couple times into Tendrils for well over lethal. Most epic game of the day. Game 2 Swarm ensures my Belcher doesn't get countered after a Land Grant. 2-0

1-1

R3- Belcher
I should've mulliganed into faster hands, I played against him last time I was in Vestal and he had Belcher. As soon as he dropped Chrome Mox I regretted keeping a hand with two Swarms. Both games Warrens gets him there. 0-2

1-2

R4- Elves
I didn't see much of his deck, but turn 1 Fyndhorn Elf says a lot off a basic forest. I drop Belcher without enough to activate, and my EOT he Summoner's Pacts for Viridian Zealot to destroy it. By the time he's attacking for lethal, I'm one mana short of playing another with activation. G2 My turn 1 draw4, cracking LED to float 4 mana, gets me 3x Dark Ritual and a Land Grant. I only have one Bayou, and it's in play. Then he drops Thorn. The next card was Tendrils. 0-2

1-3

R5- WG stuff
I play Trevor a lot at the weeklies in Syracuse, so I didn't mind losing. G1 Pridemage destroys my Belcher, and Knight was more than big enough to kill. I know he likes Teeg, so I board in 3 Slaughter Pact and nothing else. I also have 3 Claim and two Echoing Truth on the board. He turn 0 drops Leyline of Sanctity. I slap myself. 0-2

1-4

R6- WB Bears
Before we start he tells me about how he went 2-0 the first two rounds then loses to ANT, Dredge, and High Tide the last three rounds. Realizing I'm not going to improve his mood much, G1 I get a nuts hand with a turn 1 Belcher off two Chrome on black, an Opal, and Bayou off LG. He scooped. G2 he won, and I should've mulliganed. I also didn't board because I didn't know what kind of hate he would bring in. G3 I won with Infernal Tutor -> Belcher plus activation through Canonist. 2-1

2-4

R7- Infect with artifact dudes
Turn 1 Belcher, Turn 2 activate. I have no idea how to board, so I bring in Claims. He drops Chalice@0 turn 1. I LG for my Bayou, and he sees the ridiculousness that is my opening seven. Double Claim with mana for a first turn Belcher, second turn activate.

3-4

There's lessons to be had here that I figured someone could learn from.

I believe broader anti-hate is necessary. Boarding in hate for critters vs art/ench led to a couple losses, along with Belcher's known weaknesses. The rest of my losses are of my own design.

I'll be testing Dream Salvage pretty soon as well, alongside MD Therapy. Probaly Unmask out of the side.