That's another common card. It's why I have a pyroblast and reb in my board now. The deck is literally full of ways to gain incremental advantage
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That's another common card. It's why I have a pyroblast and reb in my board now. The deck is literally full of ways to gain incremental advantage
went 3-1 last saturday on a small tourney at my LGS..
1st round vs eldrazi: lost(0-2)
-this is the first time i lost to this deck twice in a row..he just chaliced on (1) me in both games and i wasn't able to draw into any o-rings to set my PTE's free to stop his creatures from running over me..
2nd round vs death and taxes: won(2-0)
-knowing what he was on even before the game began helped me win game one easily, i cast a pithing needle turn 1 naming aether vial, on his turn he laid down a port a vial and passed..on my 2nd turn, i laid down a diamond(pitching plains) to cast an early blood moon..turns out, he's holding a ton of non-basics that he wasn't able to cast things for many turns because of blood moon, and that gave me a lot of room to set up the rip/helm combo..2nd game also went easy, i just drew into all my removal the entire game, i guess i was just lucky..i know its favorable but i don't think its supposed to be THAT easy, i feel i just got too lucky in this game, would love to play against DnT again in the future..
3rd round vs storm: won(2-1)
-first turn canonist in games 1 and 3 really made it look like a one-sided game..the game i lost(game 2) was due to him holding 2 decays in hand, he was able to get rid of my canonist and a sphere in play, he comboed off afterwards..
4th round vs titan post: won(2-0)
-the match up felt really favorable, they never pressure us, so there is really so much room to set up the combo..he needled my helm, but we got o-ring to get free from that..he surgicalled my tutor but the tax/rack engine still got me there..
notes:
-i'm running a 3/1 split of PTE and swords because i just want to try things out but mostly to play around extraction effects and cabal therapy, same reason why i replaced one of my WoG's with DoJ..one situation where it mattered was in my game against DnT when i got him unable to play spells under a blood moon, and his Flickerwisp, Mirran Crusader, Serra Avenger got stuck in hand because they require double white..when he landed a mom, i didn't want to path it because it can allow him to search up a plains and it felt great that i had a swords to kill it instead..
-i'm thinking of incorporating a copy of runed halo in the board maybe in lieu of the 2nd white leyline, its good against combo and aggro..i saw some infect players in the room that i must've dodged in pairing..
Hi. You could give a try to Aegis of the Gods.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
Regards
Runed halo has more application so it may be worth it for you. Leyline is there for storm mostly. The potential for it to start in play before they do anything is where its strength lies. Combine that with it being not affected by decay and you have a really strong slot. Halo is more susceptible to decay and naming the wrong card makes it useless. So essentially if you want to play halo you probably shouldn't cut leyline for it. Halo is more of a supplement to your broader use cards.
i see, being "decayeable"" is whats really making me think twice about the halo, i just keep coming back to it because i often find myself in many situations both against aggro and combo, where i am wishing i had a halo..i wouldn't be too worried though of not knowing what card to name with it because we can still use it reactively..
what's our game plan against elves? what creatures do we path first? what cards do we side out against them? i know they can generate a lot of mana, do we side out ghostly prison? trinisphere stays, right? does pithing needle stay? if it does, what card do we name? is it worth keeping blood moon in for cradle? got any tips?
I said it in another thread, but I'll streamline even more here.
Chant-> wrath will probably win you more games then anything pre-board as chant stops what the deck tries to do and wrath clears what it has done.
Otherwise we have humility, 3sphere, blood moon, cannonist, etc. The game can play like a weird tempo match. This matchup also highlights why wrath is better then terminus, you want an answer not a delay.
And I don't think I hit on prison in the other thread. So prison is still worth keeping in. Elves is similar to painter stone. You attack for the win and threaten a combo. People seem to only register the combo as the win condition while they die to a thousand scratches. Prison helps to not die to the scratches as we have answers for the alpha combo.
Needle is a one of. So it can still be good, that's something you would have to weigh. Fetchlands, drs, ranger, symbiote... there are targets
Well it finally happened, I'm making changes to my board. The biggest one for me is playing nahiri the harbinger, something I thought I would never play. As I thought of some tweeks however it found its way in the forefront. Batterskull is gone and I'm back to Baneslayer almost exclusively because of nahiri. I have also finally cut leyline of the void in favour of a third rip. The deck feels as tight as ever.
Sideboard
1 nahiri, the harbinger
1 rest in peace
3 timely reinforcements
1 aura of silence
1 councils judgement
1 elspeth, knight-errant
1 pyroblast
1 red elemental blast
2 leyline of sanctity
2 ethersworn cannonist
1 Baneslayer angel
Card economy and versatility continue to win the day.
Since you're using Nahiri to cheat in Baneslayer Angel, why not replace it with a bigger creature?Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
Edit: added missing word.
Not really using it to cheat in Baneslayer. It's an option though, and it's castable beyond nahiri. Nahiri is there more for removal options and as a helm tutor.
I'm reworking my board and I'm wondering how I should play it against shardless.
Would it be alright to drop all 4 chants since the deck has very few countermagic and I have tons of things to bring in?
Although it never happened, I feel like chanting while visions trigger/cascade is on the stack is powerful but I'm not sure what else to cut.
It seems I don't have much I want to side out but so much I want in...
Edit: Some changes I made to my sideboard include adding Timely Reinforcements. I'm not too sure if they fit in that kind of matchup (kinda agro but they play the long game).
Here's the list I'll play tomorrow:
1 Humility
1 Isochron Scepter
4 Swords to Plowshares
16 Plains
4 Orim's Chant
1 Ghostly Prison
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
4 Mox Diamond
2 Wrath of God
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Zuran Orb
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
2 Mountain
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Day of Judgment
1 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 2 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Nevermore
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 3 Timely Reinforcements
Cut back on 2:1's. that's the easiest place to start. Otherwise that's the beauty of the deck and why I say knowledge goes a long way. As long as you know your plan and how to implement it, it is the right call. As a deck we play to our outs all game, we just have the option to jam things first if we think we can.
I was very glad I studied the matchup a lot this week because I ended up facing shardless twice tonight! It's really growing in pupularity here.
I went 2-1-1 tonight (1 loss and 1 win to shardless). I would have totally gone 3-1 had I not made a terrible mistake.
After a few Land Tax triggers I was down to 2 lands in the deck and decided to leave 1 mountain. Turns out when I used belcher I only did 3x2 damage...
Getting all lands out of the deck is probably always the right play unless you have very few cards remaining.
Except for the 1 game where I drew 7 lands in a row, I was pretty satisfied with what I brought.
The 2 revokers were such a house too since it seems every deck is now running planeswalkers.
I've actually gone back to a revoker in my board so I can hit things needle can't.
i can see its value in the deck..a card to supplement needle, another speed bump/silver bullet for the opponent to answer..failing to answer it would significantly slow them down allowing us more time to set up the combo..Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
Have you ever tried the Painter/Grindstone combo instead of RIP/Help? Painter makes a fine blocker even tho it makes the opponent's removal live.
Also Grindstone can potentially get there naturally whereas helm never will.
The classic "decay RIP while Helm ability is on the stack" might leave you with none of your pieces (as opposed to keeping the grindstone for rebuild).
It might also give us more incentive to have red blasts in the sideboard if we get them to double up as removal.
I wonder if it might be worth it to have lower casting cost win-cons so that we can more easily Chant + Combo on the same turn.
Edit:Clarified some sentences.
Maindeck rest in peace is the best reason to run this deck or Quinn right now. Rip hoses so many good cards and even full decks. Painter grindstone without all the red protection spells is terrible. If you aren't doing this already I strongly suggest 4 rip and running them out no fear early in the game. Works great in Quinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
I made a list of decks and graveyard dependency in the contamination thread: (ignore matchup categories)
HGY: heavy graveyard usage
GY: some graveyard dependency
Very Good:
Dredge HGY
BU reanimator HGY
RB reanimator HGY
Lands HGY
Tin Fins HGY
Good:
Shardless BUG HGY
Goblins
Aluren
Even: 45-55% Win Rate
Miracles GY
DNT
ANT HGY
BUG Delver GY
Canadian HGY
Show and Tell (no but Leyline helm is still good here since u can drop the second piece in with show and tell)
Grixis GY
Stoneblade GY usually
Noble BUG GY
Eldrazi
Bad:
Infect
Elves just drs and they don't need him
UR delver GY
Burn
Oh I know RIP is pretty good. I was just wondering if the other similar combo had been tested in this deck recently.
I dropped Quinn when land tax was unbanned. Painter/stone worked better there as it's draw engine was very mana intensive so the win con needed to be cheap. Otherwise there really is no reason to swap. We get a win con composed of two cards that are still ok on their own. That right there is a hallmark for card selection.
Decay of painter on the stack, in reference to your comment, is even worse. And to reiterate, decay is why I used to play a leyline of the void in my board.
The draw to blasts is that people will play blue regardless.
Because we play a prison game we are not forced to be fast. We play survive and the we can win when we want.
Well that answers my question if you're coming from Quinn!
On another subject, I think I had my worst experience with revoker this week.
I realized just how bad it can be when you actually want to keep humility in.
For this reason I think I'll just play a 1:1 split with needle.
I like having a needle-clock but it feels so bad when your only way to shutdown a plan is to turn off your own stuff...
Also I like having different casting costs in this era of CB and Prelate.
The 1:1 split of needle and revoker feels right. They hit different things after all. Plus game 2 is more likely when you want to shut mana off with added pressure.
I just run needles in quinn for this reason and revoker dies to my board wipes. Speaking of which ...why are you running doj and wog over terminus?
Terminus is pretty unreliable without library manipulation and scroll rack isn't as good as top at setting up miracles. Miracles.dec also has access to brainstorm and ponders (+4 with snapcasters) to set them up so without all these it is much harder to reliably use.
Also since we often produce a lot of lands and have moxes, 4/5 mana isn't that hard to reach.
What I would really like tho is to have supreme verdict but that would require splashing blue instead of red. I thought about back to basics replacing blood moon and then we could have the uncounterable wraths. I'm not sure how much more BM wins over B2B but both are pretty good at hating 3 color decks.
Edit: That would also allow us to play 1 of detention sphere. And personnally I never had much luck with the mountain double-damage charbelcher so I wouldn't miss mountains at all.
I run wraths because I want to deal with creatures, not delay them. I laughed at a miracles player when I was playing elves for that reason, all he did was delay what was happening. The next turn was the same combo again. Fetches almost single handedly negate terminus.
B2B vs moon: one shuts of needed colours the other still lets you get a use
Yeah, I know the difference but I haven't seen it played much since I came back. I'm mostly wondering if this weakness ends up mattering a lot or not so much.
BM did win me games really easily, but there was also times I couldn't cast it or it came too late anyway. I'm just staying open to the idea of another color since red is not my favorite color. B2B is the only enchantment I know with a similar effect and it's in the right color for some the very powerfull spells that would fit nicely with our plan.
Edit: There's also the other option of leaving BM in and just exchanging 1 mountain for 1 island, DoJ with Verdict and one Oring with Sphere. That doesn't make our manabase worse but it gives us even more options.
The difference does matter. That's why I phrased it like I did. One lets a person cast abrupt decay, the other doesn't.
The draw of a splash here is that you never really need that mountain. Adding blue makes you need blue.
I have the worst luck when it comes to draws...
Yesterday I made the same great play 2 games in a row (Land Tax x2 triggering every turn for 6 lands out of the deck) and still managed to draw lands 3 turns in a row, followed by 1-2 mox diamonds -_-'
I would have expected to have found something useful with all my lands out of the deck but it ain't that easy when you're doomed! I didn't even get to find a single Scroll Rack all night.
It's not like I could have played better but it's still frustrating.
Play Quinn...we have cookies...and 4 md tops plus tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
Hmmm cookies....:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by kinda
Just curious what you guys think about the following list. One of our local players plays this deck with following list:
4 Land tax
3 scroll rack
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Rest in peace
4 Energy field
2 Back to Basics
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Banishing Light
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
4 Orim's Chant
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
11 Plains
SB
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Negate
3 Entreat the Angels
1 Nevermore
1 Pithing Needle
1 Luminarch Ascension
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Supreme Verdic
I think SB has alot of slots on BUG matchups since Miracles hate cards hit this deck too.
I do not like non basics with charbelcher unless they are mountains. Every non basic that isn't a mountain decreases the reliability of charbelcher being a kill. I'm also not a fan of sceptre in a format where abrupt decay is a common card. Being 2:1 isn't great.
My only real thought is why there is no jace the mind sculptor in the 75. That to me is the real draw for adding blue.
Looks fun, I've been tempted to splash blue in Quinn for energy field/b2b. Abrupt decay on rip looks like quite a beating and everything seems to be running decay right now though. I'd cut the scepters and an energy field for tops. I'd also fit humility and ensnaring bridge in the 75.
what are your thoughts on [card]gideon of the trials[/card]
Looks cute on paper. Would need to actually play it to determine how good it is. Nahiri is a prime example of this for me. I think the card is bad, but it plays so well in the deck.
New Gideon is interesting but unlikely to be playable (at least not in this deck):
1) His emblem can be removed because removing Gideon does make the emblem 100% useless. He also makes yet another target for decay which I don't like for a win-con.
2) He cannot protect himself from more than one source, whereas Ally of Zendikar / Knight-Errant / Nahiri can deal with many threats given a few turns. This makes it doubtful you establish any kind of lock.
3) In this deck, planewalkers should primarily be used as pressure against other slow decks yet his only offensive ability puts him at risk.
It's not like we want to put a win-con out by turn 3, we'd much rather control the board state and later drop a bomb.
So I've had a pile that has shifted from Mighty Quinn to Parfait to Landstill and was on its way to becoming Miracles, just in time for the Top ban. So now that there is a massive power vacuum, I was thinking of moving back towards a Parfait build, UWx with a Helm combo finish, maybe even Standstill and Energy Field.
Anybody around to work on this with?
You sir made my day. I would have prefered terminus to get axed but that fact miracles is no more is fine by me.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
I mean, it's fine by me, just seems my deck selection history plays out like a classic Volkswagen commercial :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
The point is I'm not ready to sell my Moat yet, but I'm sure as hell not going to just let a card like that sit in a binder. Plus Parfait was always my favorite of the W/x piles. With DRS decks feeling upwardly mobile, seems Rest in Peace is as good as ever, might as well win with it too. Just not sure if a splash pays off in these uncertain times.
Why would you play moat when humility exists?
In all honesty though I feel red is the best splash for the deck. It's the build I champion and has proven itself forbyears
Why Moat:
1) 1/1 creatures can still be a threat, especially since you'll probably have taken some damage already by the time you get Humility
2) Humility doesn't deal with Batterskull or other equipment
3) Getting both in play is very strong against some decks (such as D&T)
I used to play Quinn (just built it a little over a month ago...) so I guess I'm now looking to switch to Parfait. How are the decks' matchups? Can anyone tell how much playing it differs from playing Quinn?