About the number of lands, I played 18 lands and 2 moxen in last tournament and lost the semi for I was mana screwed in both games. now I run 19 lands and one mox. I donnot know if I should play 20 lands, but 21 is too much for me
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About the number of lands, I played 18 lands and 2 moxen in last tournament and lost the semi for I was mana screwed in both games. now I run 19 lands and one mox. I donnot know if I should play 20 lands, but 21 is too much for me
18 to 21 seams to be what the highest finishers have leaning more on the higher number. I think we are going to have to do so testing. Its the only way to get a more precise answer me thinks.
Edit: Who likes the 9 SOL lands idea?
I'd only consider the 9th sol if I was going that reliant on turn 1 moon plan. I personally would like a petal or mox over it in 90% of the situations I'd think of though.
I still don't understand why everyone likes Chrome Mox so much. Say you draw an opening hand of Moon, Sol, Mountain, Fetch, Mox, Welder, and painter. If that welder is the only one in your deck, are you willing to get rid of it for the whole game if it means a T1 moon? I think that if we want to run mox there should be more than just singleton silver bullets in the deck because Im not willing to part with a spell in that manor. That being said you want a T1 moon with a mox thats 4 cards from your hand. With a SSG its only 3. I mean if you could play it then weld it away and get your card back that would be great and i would play some but thats not the case. So can someone explain to me their reasoning bend even a single mox?
I don't think you can look at the chrome mox from that point of view alone. Yes, you have to imprint potent cards, but as the general meta us right now, I'm willing to go byebye on the singleton welder, jaya Ballard or manic vandal for that potentially devastating moon effect, that locks your OP out of the game :) that may very well change in a matter of weeks or months, as the meta shifts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by combolover
But if you're running Chrome Mox for the sole reason of powering out a T1 Moon, isn't Lotus Petal superior in that case? You don't have to go down an additional card, and you only need the acceleration that one time to power out a Moon.
Sure, but Chrome Mox does get rid of chaff in hand as much as it sucks up a card to power another one out. One Mox has been good to me along side a Petal. Both doing their jobs nicely.
The way I look at it also I'll pitch an important card to mox for a turn 1 blood moon, and then after that I'm also 1 Mana ahead of them for hopefully the rest of the game, which in turn help me finish the game that much faster. Petal does the same but you don't get that permanent extra 1R.
I dislike mox mostly due to having 4x Ensnaring Bridge sided. So while the card might help game one, there is nothing to say I will have the opportunity to make use of it game two.
For me, I run Petal and normally, if I don't need it right away, try and play the game as if it's not on the table. Save it for the right moment to crack it.
Did some testing with a mate tonight. Death and taxes alongside burn where two decks that I could not crack. They are both terrible matches. Any advice on DnT?
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
I play Martyr of Ashes in the SB. Saved me a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
If anything mox seems even better with bridges, it empties more of your hand and allows you to drop it faster on the table.
If the advantage to Chrome Mox is that you get to pitch chaff to it, wouldn't faithless looting generally be better if that is the effect you want? You can even pitch extra lands to looting, which you can't do with Mox. It helps filter throughout the game, which can be critical. If you're running petal instead of mox, you still get the acceleration without having to throw away another card, and can potentially turn that same chaff into something else later with Looting.
I can see the argument for having another permanent red source, although that really doesn't seem relevant all that often (I could be wrong - don't have a ton of experience here). We don't need a ton of land in general and SDT and/or Looting seem like they can find them easily if you need one anyway. Mox is a little better with Ensnaring Bridge though - that part makes sense to me.
I personally run 19 lands 1 mox and 1 Petal as my Mana source. With Looting, the only time i'd consider the card is when I'm going for a welder heavy kit, otherwise I consider it to not be worth it and their are just better cards if you're not catering towards welders.
I played it twice last tournament, same player, drew the first round and gave him the scoop because mise, and then later in the semis I beat him 2-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Blood Moon isn't bad, because it shuts off their utility lands and neuters Mangara. Ratchet Bomb/Martyr of Ash are great. Their dorks can't handle these sweepers too well, and you'll need to get a Ratchet bomb off at two otherwise their True Believer will shut you down. Revoker on Vial is also a solid play, and especially good locking up their equipment. An active Jitte on either side will usually swing the game because both decks are running nothing but dorks, so one connection from a Jitte often means a 2 for 1.
I sideboarded in Ensnaring Bridge x 4, the second Jaya, the Martyr and the Bombs for Magus x 3 (dies to STP), the lone Mox, a Blast, and 2 Welders (one left MD). Their only path to victory is through combat Damage, so sitting behind a bridge while you build up your combo + protection is the way to win. You can set up for the long game by drawing out their hand and then sweeping the board wtih Martyr or Bomb, then assemble your combo or Jaya+PS is a good game, too. Unless they have a super speedy draw and have answers to everything, iPainter has the tools to take over the long game. I'd never mulligan a turn one Moon, nor a naked turn two combo. Let them have it. This match is winnable, thanks largely to Ensnaring Bridge. You gotta know what they're doing to hate you out, think allllll their bears and Aven Mindscensor. Mom can be negated by your sweepers.
I think that my opponent knew what he was doing, it's not exactly a deck you can pick up and Top 4 even an LSG wtih. He made some bad plays but so did I, and over all I think that I would rather be iPainter in that given matchup than DnT.
Regarding burn. It sucks. It's a horrendous matchup, and if the burn player has any idea what they're doing you're probably not going to have a good time. Bridges don't save you because they have more than 20 points of burn in the deck, and all that burn is removal for PS in response to a Grindstone activation. You can nut draw some wins, and either their bad keeps, bad draws, or over all incompetence will also give you wins. Otherwise, it's pretty trivial for Burn. Any other red deck is a bad matchup, Goblins falls in the same catagory, and I wouldn't want to face Stompy either. Spellskite pulls good weight, and Bridges can slow them down. It's not bad to mulligan aggressively into a fast combo. Think of them as a combo deck that reaches critical mass over a few turns, just like this deck. Play to speed as a strength and you have a better shot at winning.
Honestly, iPainter has such good game right now that it's not a bad idea to run a sideboard dedicated to its horrendous matchups; namely other Red decks, Reanimator/SnT/Storm decks, and Zoo decks.
I'm nervous that the cats outta the bag now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Naaah, there could be a little flare up in the iPainter hate, but I don't think the general meta will adapt to our deck.. The scarcity of Recruiters - even with the JR version - is still a "barrier" for people, wanting to prepare their SB's for us. :) My opinion at least :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Just be prepared for people you regularly meet to hate you for playing moon effects... I felt it tonight at one at the weekly legacy tourney in CPH :D
Luckily that doesn't happen out out LGS much. We are all trying to tune our decks for the bigger events and are not looking to make adjustment based on a small LGS sample size. That creates bad deck building and inbred testing results. Hence I many times have dead SB cards going into a weekly that I refuse to change because they are the "right" cards to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
Furthermore, if people start tuning their sideboards to beat Moon decks, they'll likely flop when they have to face meta opponents, and thusly wind up in the loser bracket. When iPainter runs good it's only losing to the red decks in the room, therefore people just might hate themselves out of contention. I say let the cat out of the bag.
Would it viable, having some apostle's blessing in the board, when facing R decks?
Why isn't Spellskite better?
Spellskite can only take one burn spell, before dying, apostle's blessing gives it pro until end of turn. It can also serve as protection to a moon, when faced with a abrupt decay, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
The only decks I fear are 12 post and Reanimator. Anything else and I think we are ok. I know they have to add in hate for use but what will they add and will people think it worth it over all the other more common decks that need to be defended against?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Martyr of Ashes is a wonderful idea. Thank you. I knew I needed some for something and grabbed them on Tuesday but could not remember what for. Well now I have an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Funny you should mention True Believer. My friend whom I was testing with did not have any, I had one from years ago I gave him. Had to talk him into running it. Now I am thinking that was not such a smart plan.
Regarding Burn, I am just going to class that as a loss unless I am graced with a first or second turn win. I see no other option. The worst part about the matchup is that tapping Tomb twice more or less seals the deal in their favor too. Bad bad matchup. Goblins I think you can shut down with a bridge but dam that Piledriver. Pro blue is so painful and it starts with 1 power so it is the perfect answer to bridge. I found this when playing Stompy. Mono colours are hard, mono red most of all.
Also after an afternoon of testing I am on and off the White splash. When you have to board out your Moons E tutor goes to work, but otherwise I could add in more burn and deal with things that start on the table. But when the white works its a lifesaver. So I am tossing up idea's. Will give them a go. My issue with the deck is my local meta has 2 Reanimator and 2 12 post. Fun decks. It makes me want to have Grave hate in the main and with E tutor I do not have the space.
White I agree on all points, you can not tutor for blessing with Imp. That is a mark against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
And that's why, I'm concidering, removing the bridges from my board and add 4 blessings, just as a test. Although, I might even looking into the probes mainboard again :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I see what you're on Blessing about, but Spellskite can be activated in response multiple times, where need one mana and X Blessings for their Y burn spells in that given turn. I dunno if you're on to a good line of play. I hope your testing proves something
True, but I can't do nothing more than test it for a month or so, and see what I come up with :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Testing 2 jitte MB. My trouble matchups seem to be aggro where I just can't combo reliably fast enough. And I usually can't wait for protection to slam painter.
It can also help against control and combo by speeding up the clock
I also kinda want to have two Jittes main, but aggro isn't terribly popular here. I think I'd swap them out for Revokers should it come down to that.
BTW:
What do you think of Thorn of Amethyst in the board vs. Trinisphere?
I know that Thorn can be a pain in the butt for mainly TES/ANT, but I personally like Trinisphere although it kinda set us back to.. What do you think? :)
EDIT: How about Defense Grid? Does it provide more protection for us going combo? :)
Thorn over trinisphere all day! It comes down turn one consistently which is a big deal. Also has nearly the same devastating effect in the matches you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
Defense grid: no. Look at vexing shusher, which is also an answer to the dreaded chalice on 1
Two painter decks on the stream already today, I would say the cat is out of the bag.
Hopefully just the flavor of the week. Then everyone will go back to forgetting about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Finals, YET again :D
So mono red Painter finishes top 2 two weeks running. Got to say, this is going to keep happening until the meta shifts. Willing to bet there will be calls to ban moon's soon. Makes me glad I went and got all my cards a month or so ago, because if this track keeps up the price of the staples will climb.
But to be honest, mana bases are as greedy as I have ever seen them right now, moon is simply the best 3 drop I can think of for this meta. Makes me wish I was in the states to play. Looks like fun. GP is in 5 weeks so I guess I will just have to kick ass there.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
All it really means is that your opponents will have better knowledge of your deck and how to beat you. There will be less punting on their part so smaller errors that didn't matter before will now hurt and result in losses. Basically now painter players will have to learn how to play longer games without relying on moon all the time.
I agree as much as I can for someone that is new to the deck. What I do honestly suggest is a look at cards like Rakka Mar and maybe even Mogg War Marshall for a more aggressive build. I am running Rakka now and she is very strong when not instantly killed.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
I think Rakka Mar has the same merrit as SGC for the 2/x one-of. Seen her in play when testing Dragon Stompy and she's quite the boss when left unchecked. Plus, four mana is infinitely less than five...just sayin ;)
I don't hate the idea of rakka mar. Seems like a good alternate beatdown finisher.
The different card in the Cincinnati's list is a 2x of Chandra, Pyromaster, replacing 1 Phyrexian Revoker 1 Mountain from the Baltimore's list; maybe she found a good home?
2 red in the casting cost and a need to protect her. Not sure I would say this deck is her home. Delver would eat her.
You have 9 one mana spells for killing delver so itīs not a big threat. I think Koth might be better than Chandra though.