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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
Granted it's a third color, but it's the color Blue, so who cares how many other colors there are amirite!??!
You're not wrong, anyway. There's a remarkably short list of cards that are useful on their own and are also good with Grenzo. Here's all the cards putting stuff on your bottom:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...lt.aspx?text=+[%22on%20the%20bottom%20of%20your%20library%22]
Unless you're going for broke with, like, Aethermage's Touch into Grislebrand or some nonsense, most of these cards suffer from being crap on their own. I think the only possibilities for legitimate Grenzo food are:
1. Ancient Stirrings (for the three color Grenzo affinity that is tearing up the tourney scene)
2. Augury Owl (works with Grenzo as well as setting Grenzo up. CHAIN DAT GRENZO)
3. Bow of Nylea (fine card with no home that has a great Soldevi Digger effect for Grenzy)
4. Commune with Nature (get dat Grenzo and then set him up. TECH)
5. Condescend (Assuming you didnt tap out when you Grenzo'd, you get to stop removal AND set him up)
6. Cream of the Crop (Make Grenzo big, ensure Grenzo has food, all for the cost of paying 1G on a do-nothing!)
7. Dig through Time (best, no question)
8. Dream Cache (Looking at 3 cards for 3 mana isn't terrible. Now that I read this card again, it looks like Brainstorm + Fetch for 2 more mana and one less card. Why is this not played...?)
And then I lost interest and stopped reading cards on page 3 or so. Whatever, these cards all combo with Grenzo.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Right right, Dig Through Time. I guess my original search was because EDH, so :/ That DTT ain't so hot in mono-Rakdos, nawmean?
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TsumiBand
Right right, Dig Through Time. I guess my original search was because EDH, so :/ That DTT ain't so hot in mono-Rakdos, nawmean?
There's also hideaway stuff. Popping Deranged Hermit out with grenzo is likely to work Mosswort Bridge,Spinerock Knoll or Windbrisk Heights.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
It's bad, but being a Goblin Rogue, Grenzo would trigger Thieves' Fortune. Hmmm, cheat a creature into play for :2::u:, sounds familiar... I've heard this one before...
In line with other bad tribal synergy, Cloak and Dagger makes Grenzo bigger and gives it shroud. In case you were really looking for a way to keep Grenzo safe instead of like, doing good things, I guess.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Er, yeah, I'm not sure you're going to be casting Grenzo for X = 13 so you can cheat out Emrakul.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Really, gentlemen? No updates since Khans? We need to get on the game here and keep making this the end-all be-all source for combos in Magic. Starting with Fate Reforged, lets update up in dis.
Fate Reforged Combo Review
---------------------------------
This is the set of OPTIONS. So many modular cards. So many powerful cards with uses that can serve as cogs in a combo machine but be useful on their own when you're not comboing. Once of my favorite sets in a long time! There are LOTS of combos here.
Citadel Siege + Royal Assassin
Lol, I keed.
Jeskai Barricade + Fiend Hunter
Fiend Hunter was the last of the Oblivion Ring dudes to be printed in a way that you could abuse. You could always bounce Hunter in response to his ETB ability to exile something for good, but usually that requires dipping into Blue. White usually doesn't have good instant-speed bounce. Well, Barricade certainly fits the bill here. If you're looking to enable this abuse in your mono-white deck, then, well, here ya go!
Lightform, et al. + Phyrexian Dreadnought/Hunted Horror, etc
Manifesting a dude with a very cheap casting cost and a horrible ETB ability is very good. Of all of the mainfest cards, probably Cloudform, Reality Shift, and Master of the Unseen are the best. The former because it gives your creature evasion and Hexproof (SRSLY), the middle because it can be used offensively, and the latter because you can do it repeatedly. Speaking of...
Mastery of the Unseen + Repeal / Vedalken Mastermind
If you manifest something you want in your hand, like a spell, Remand lets you do that and draw a card for U and Mastermind gets it in your hand for U. Both of these, and similar effects, essentially make your Mastery into a Jademeadye Tome, if you need that, and a 2/2 generator when you do not.
Soulfire Grand Master + Time Walk, et al
Any card that gives you an extra turn goes infinite with Soulfire Grand Master if you swing the extra 4 mana each turn, although none is as cheap as the original. Savor the Moment and Stitch in Time come close, but Stitch can whiff hilariously and Savor requires you to generate 7 mana without an untap step; not impossible, but pretty darn close to it.
Marang River Prowler + Intruder Alarm + Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Bloom Tender, etc
As long as you've got the ability to make 2U from your mana dorks, you can recur Prowler infinitely. His return condition is kind of like Gravecrawler, since most mana dorks that will let you keep getting mana also happen to be green. You need to mix in some kind of ETB or LTB trigger effect to do anything with this, or you can generate infinite mana if you have more than 2U in mana generating dorks.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest + Brute Force, Reckless Charge
This crosses the line from synergy into combo due to how overwhelmingly powerful the effect is, I think. A single Brute Force or Charge, plus RR, will give a creature +6 to its attack. Do this on Shu himself and he deals 12 damage in a single hit; enough to end the game if you've been doing other nonsense in some kind of aggro deck. Somehow doing this in a Noble Fish deck on a Cold-Eyed Selkie seems amazing and like it will never happen.
Orc Sureshot + Shrieking Drake and cards like it.
Sureshot lets you machine gun your opponent's creatures as long as you have a self-bouncer. Absent cost-reducing shenanigans like Animar, Drake is your best go-to card to abuse with this.
Soulflater + Drogskol Reaver
Soulflayer by itself is pretty humdrum, but if you can manage to give it Double Strike, evasion, and protection, we're talking a legitimate powerhouse finisher. The best you can do at the moment is probably Drogskul Reaver, who at least gets you 8 damage in the air. Add Hexproof and he's the kind of card that finishes Legacy games.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang + Infinite Mana
So this card is pretty well understood, but basically if you get an infinite mana combo going with Tasigur you can mill your entire deck and then put all your non-land cards in your hand. From there, you can cast whatever and keep recurring it for a win. This makes Tasigur a kill condition in Bomberman, Worldgorger Dragon, and anything else that can generate infinite mana as a win condition. Far better than a Spellbomb in this regard.
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death + Master of Cruelties
Well documented elsewhere, so let's record it here for completeness' sake. Attack with Alesha against an empty board and recur your Master. He is put into play attacking, overcoming his initial limitation, and then will trigger when no blockers are declared, reducing your opponent's life to 1. Alesha then finishes the job.
Humble Defector + Homeward Path
Obvious combo is obvious.
Humble Defector + Untap effects
Activate defector and then, WITHOUT LETTING ITS ABILITY RESOLVE, untap him. Congratulations, you now get to activate him again. Rinse and repeat as often as you can before finally letting it resolve. You'll draw two cards each time the ability resolves, but once he's been handed to your opponent the rest of the change control effects will be ignored.
Outpost Seige + Infinite ETB/LTB effects
Seige is a fantastic way to win with combos that spam creatures in and out of the battlefield, like Sharuum+Scuplting Steel or whatever. If you're not combing out, then you're just drawin cards. Sounds good!
Shaman of the Great Hunt + Infinite Mana
Like Tasigur, this guy draws your deck if you've got infinite mana. Five color Elves in EDH is a home for this, for example. As a 4/2 with haste, he gives you a decent card to toy with even when you're not comboing.
Temur Sabertooth + Fiend Hunter, etc
Another instant-speed bounce effect in a color that does not usually get them, opening the door to more trigger abuse shenanigans. And Temur is even in Animar's colors, too! Whoo hoo!
Up later: Dragons of Tarkir!
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Re: List of Compact Combos
@ Shu Yun
Do spells like Invigorate, Blazing Shoal, or other free-ish pump spells matter a darn?
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Mastery of the Unseen +
Remand /
Vedalken Mastermind
If you manifest something you want in your hand, like a spell, Remand lets you do that and draw a card for U and Mastermind gets it in your hand for U. Both of these, and similar effects, essentially make your Mastery into a Jademeadye Tome, if you need that, and a 2/2 generator when you do not.
I guess you're talking about Repeal since Remand obviously doesn't work here.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TsumiBand
@ Shu Yun
Do spells like Invigorate, Blazing Shoal, or other free-ish pump spells matter a darn?
Yeah, actually, Shoal on a sufficiently high casting cost pitch card is game over with Shun like it is with any other double striker or infector. To hit for lethal with Shun you only need to pitch a card with a CC of 6. (3 base + 1 prowess + 6 shoal = 10 x 2 = 20).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I guess you're talking about
Repeal since Remand obviously doesn't work here.
Yup. Fixed.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Dragons of Tarkir
----------------------
This set is considerably less complex than Fate Reforged, which means far less combo potential. Even fun cards like Mirror Mockery are designed in such a way there are not powerful combos -- at least that I'm seeing -- other than just "goes well with ETB effects." Not as much variety here as in Fate Reforged, thats for sure.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit + Pod combos
With the right setup, Anafenza is a replacement for Melira in pod-style decks. As long as the persist dork has the lowest power when it ETB, and chances are it will, then Ana will cancel the counters for it. Hurrah!
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit, Ambuscade Shaman + Shrieking Drake
Drake lets you dump +1/+1 counters on your dudes for U, which isn't terrible. If you want some kind of WU aggro EDH deck, I guess. Ambuscale gives you something else to do in your Shrieking Drake / Orc Sureshot deck.
Zephyr Scribe +Paradise Mantle, etc
Now we're talking. Untapping when you cast a spell is a potentially abuseable ability, and I believe we've only seen it on three previous cards, both of which were more restrictive:Blistercoil Weird, Gelectrode (untapped on instants and sorceries only) and Cinder Pyromancer (untapped on red spells only). There are others, like Mirran Spy, but they're vastly more restrictive and all suck except for Nettle Sentinel. We've only seen an untapper that lets you loot once before, and it was FAAAR more restrictive: Inspired Sprite.
Scribe strikes me as one of the better cards to enable untap shenanigans. For those not in the loop, the idea is that once you get the ability: "T: Add mana" on Scribe or the other cards I mentioned, all of your cheap cantrips let you dig into your deck repeatedly. Cast Serum Visions using U from the Scribe, it untaps Scribe and you're ready to cast something else if you draw it. Where Scribe really shines head over tails over the other bozos in this category is that: (a) it triggers off of NONCREATURE spells, meaning duplicate Paradise Mantles will keep triggering the untap ability; and (b) it has its OWN dig ability in exactly that situation. I could easily see a deck doing some serious digging here.
And it works in Standard, too, shockingly. There's a green Aura from one of the Theros blocks that acts like a Paradise Mantle of sorts, and even draws you a card when it gets into the battlefield. Standard is vastly deficient in cheap blue dig spells, but Dragons actually changed that by giving us Baby's First Impulse. Could this be a thing? It's a combo, anyway!
Corpseweft + One With Nothing
Aw ya it's everyone's favorite soccer ghosts. The concept here is that Corpseweft only needs 10 creatures in your yard to make a 20/20, so sacrificing your hand to FIFA (or filling your yard in a less hilarious way) leads to a constant stream of death for only 1B. This is a stretch, but this is a good card.
Risen Executioner + Rooftop Storm
Executioner joins Gravecrawler as a way to go infinities with Rooftop Storm and a sac outlet. At the moment, I don't know what you'd do with that in a reasonable Modern list (if you are casting 5U cards and not winning on the spot in Legacy, ya'll are doing it wrong) but, hey, you can pair it with anything that exploits ETB or LTB triggers for a four-card combo bonanza! Oh, who am I kidding. Enduring Renewal hasn't been a thing since 1994.
Impact Tremors + ETB combos
Shrieking Drake to the rescue again! Also works great with Krenko or other way of spamming creatures. This effect is HARDLY unique, but this is the cheapest it's been to ping as an ETB trigger.
Collected Company +Congregation at Dawn
This lets you assemble whatever janky 3-card cheap creature combo you want next turn. Typically that's gonna be a Pod-style kill.
Enduring Scalelord + another one
If you have two of these on the battlefield, putting any +1/1 counters on anything starts an infinite loop that you can use to make both dragons as beefy as you like. For those times when a 3 card combo involving two 6 casting cost creatures is what you're after.
Savage Ventmaw + Hellkite Charger
Continuing the combos between absurdly overcosted creatures, here's a funny you'll see in Dragon EDH decks. Ventmaw makes most of the mana Charger needs to allow another attack step. It's not infinite exactly, but if you connected once it won't take much more for your dragons to finish the game in very short order at 2 mana per attack step.
Swift Warkite + Fiend Hunter + sac outlet
When he ETB, exile Warkite. If he ever dies, Warkite can bring him back exiling Warkite again, Rinse and repeat as much as you like during the same turn for sac outlet goodness.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Nice, I didn't think of that.
Quote:
Zephyr Scribe +
Paradise Mantle, etc
Now we're talking. Untapping when you cast a spell is a potentially abuseable ability, and I believe we've only seen it on three previous cards, both of which were more restrictive:
Blistercoil Weird, Gelectrode (untapped on instants and sorceries only) and
Cinder Pyromancer (untapped on red spells only). There are others, like Mirran Spy, but they're vastly more restrictive and all suck except for Nettle Sentinel. We've only seen an untapper that lets you loot once before, and it was FAAAR more restrictive:
Inspired Sprite.
...
And it works in Standard, too, shockingly. There's a green Aura from one of the Theros blocks that acts like a Paradise Mantle of sorts, and even draws you a card when it gets into the battlefield. Standard is vastly deficient in cheap blue dig spells, but Dragons actually changed that by giving us Baby's First Impulse. Could this be a thing? It's a combo, anyway!
There are a couple of other creatures that fit in like Puresight Merrow and Dwarven Patrol. Multani's Harmony might also be a better enabler than Karametra's Favor, cantrip notwithstanding.
Sidisi, Unded Vizier is probably a better way to go with rooftop storm since he's his own sac outlet. In legacy you can chain through zombies (Sibsig Muckdraggers,Gravedigger,Gravespawn Sovereign,Havengul Lich) to put together a winning combo.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
Ive tried so hard, and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter... to get Merrow to work. Casting Karametra's Favor on Merrow is an instant Demonic Tutor + a way to topdeck whatever you want.
Cast Favor on Merrow.
Favor resolves, ETB ability on the stack.
Tap Merrow for U, use that to untap Merrow and check your topdeck, repeat until you see what you want.
Let ETB resolve, draw the card.
You'd THINK that there would be a way to abuse this amazing combination into a winning strategy, but nope. Best I got was, if you put Mana Reflection on top, you now get infinite mana too and presumably you can find a way to win from there. But that costs you another 6 manas. There are precious few ways to win from here instantly and, without that, it's too much work. But oh jeebus I want this to work so hard.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death +
Master of Cruelties
Well documented elsewhere, so let's record it here for completeness' sake. Attack with Alesha against an empty board and recur your Master. He is put into play attacking, overcoming his initial limitation, and then will trigger when no blockers are declared, reducing your opponent's life to 1. Alesha then finishes the job.
It's worth noting that this combo can be set up with Entomb, which can be run for further utility. I totally forgot that I wanted to brew with that.
Alesha swings, trigger goes on the stack, Entomb in response, fetch Master, let the trigger resolve, bring back Master. Even if Alesha dies, they still have to deal with a swinging Master, which otherwise puts them on a rather uncomfortable 1 life without blocks in a deck that most likely features burn and DRS drains.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Holy smokes, did we not even do Khans of Tarkir? Sheesh! I guess I'll continue the Lords' Work tomorrow and keep this thread up to date on that set, too.
EDIT:
Going back to Dragons a bit:
Vulturous Aven + Genesis Chamber
Chamber works well with all of the Exploit cards, but it really shines here because 4 mana for 2 cards and a 2/3 flier is actually a bit of a bargain. And, as is critical with janky combos like this, all parts are modern legal! This is an efficient draw engine, if not really spectacular on its own. If you pair it with a blink effect like Venser, Shaper Savant... now it's legit scary.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
...
You'd THINK that there would be a way to abuse this amazing combination into a winning strategy, but nope. Best I got was, if you put Mana Reflection on top, you now get infinite mana too and presumably you can find a way to win from there. But that costs you another 6 manas. There are precious few ways to win from here instantly and, without that, it's too much work. But oh jeebus I want this to work so hard.
There are some other cards with potential though they might be a little janky or mana intensive: Future Sight/Magus of the Future, Laboratory Maniac, Counterbalance,Skill Borrower,Shelldock Isle, and Mesmeric Orb.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
The problem is that none of these win immediately. Skill Borrower was the one I looked at most closely last time I tinkered with this. The idea was to mill to a Skill Borrower, and then you could mill to a Kiki-Jiki to go infinite. But, in addition to assembling Puresight+Favor, you now also had to (1) generate 2U and (2) give Borrower haste or pass the turn. So we're talking about a 2-card, 4 mana combo that also requires more help to win. That might be acceptable if the pieces were strong enough (see Pod decks). Is a 2/2 with a card selection ability reminiscent of the Inspired mechanic good? Eh... it's not terrible if you want a grizzly bear... but Favor is meh.
Where I came down was, if it is gonna work, there has to be a way to transform Puresight+Favor into an instant win.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
...Where I came down was, if it is gonna work, there has to be a way to transform Puresight+Favor into an instant win.
There are piles that can win 'same turn', but they require multiple cards which makes exiling off the top a major liability.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
KHANS OF TARKIR -
----------------------
Bringing us finally up to date, let's rattle off the combos in Khans. This set was just as juicy as Fate Reforged! Fate was awesome for Johnnys because of all of the modular cards with options, and this set was good because it involved all sorts of wacky combinations being mixed together on wedge-colored cards. Combo bonanza and an awesome set.
Dig Through Time + Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
This was mentioned earlier in this thread, but it should have been included in a Khans tally of combos. You cast Dig with Grenzo out or you find Grenzo off of dig -- not a tall order in a 60 card deck -- and you get to stack the bottom of your library to line up with his ability. For more fun, stick multiple Priest of Gix / Priest of Urabrask / Cloud of Faeries on the bottom so you can machine gun out a small army off of Grenzo's ability. Good times.
Singing Bell Strike + Priest of Titania or cards like it, + conditions that let the second card tap for 7 mana
Bell Strike grants an untap ability, and this is always good for comboing with cards that might generate more mana than needed for the untap and thereby generate infinite mana. Is this as good as Freed from the Real, Pemmin's Aura, Staff of Domination, Umbral Mantle, Aura of Dominion, etc? Nope! But it does have the advantage that you can use it offensively as a removal spell until you actually want to use it to combo out with.
Bloodsoaked Champion + sacrifice effects
Once you've attacked a single time during your turn, you can now reanimate and sac Champion as much as you like. There is no way to sac him for 1B outright, so you can't do an infinite two-card combo. You could get to some silly situations involving Pyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar, and Carnival of Souls in EDH, maybe. Essentially he can be a 2/1 that later turns into a Reassembling Skeleton for sac purposes. He doesn't return for free, so cards like Skullclamp would rather play with Bloodghast, but this one isnt bad.
Grim Haruspex + sacrifice combos
Anytime you would use Fecundity to do something stupid, this card does it better. It isn't symmetrical and its a 3/2.
Retribution of the Ancients + Undying
While not infinite, you can keep getting your undying creatures back for a one-time investment of B each time. This also double as removal. If you use this with a 1/1 undyer, like Young Wolf, you can essentially create a sac loop whereby you keep recasting the wolf for B mana. A good way to abuse ETB effects in Modern... like, for instance, the Haruspex above.
Goblinslide/Azban Asendency + Blood Funnel
Cast a non-creature spell for a discount. Put your two triggered abilities on the stack with Goblinslide on top. Pay for the Goblin token, sac it to satisfy Funnel. This is perhaps a lot of work to make your spells cost 1 less, but since both cards merit discussion on their own as interesting and powerful effects, who knows? Asendency works the same way, but since it requires no cost you get the cards for 2 less. Score!
Hardened Scales + Marath, Will of the Wild
With both in play, you can pay X mana to put X +1/+1 counters on Marath or anything else. Since they eratted Marath, it's not infinite -- too bad -- but it's still very powerful. For additional fun you can toss creatures like Molten Hydra into the mix to do fun things with your plethora of counters.
Jeskai Ascendency + [cards]Fatesticher, Faerie Conclave[/card] or mana dorks.
Well-documented in actual Modern and Standard decks. As long as you're casting cheap cantrips anyway, Ascendancy lets you untap your mana producing dorks and keep funding more cantrips until you have a massive beater to swing with.
Jeskai Ascendency + Retraction Helix, Banishing Knack + 0 cc artifact + a dude
Lots of moving pieces, but the idea is that you can tap to return the free thing, recast to trigger Ascendency, and repeat to get an infinity large creature.
Altar of the Brood + ETB combos
Altar becomes a very cheap and easy to splash win condition with any infinite ETB combos.
Whew. That wraps it up for Khan's block. Did I miss anything?
(Now, an aside. While not really a combo, anyone else noticed that Black got some REALLY undercosted beaters in this set without much of a drawback? There's a Juggernaut for 2B in Dragons that curves perfectly into Bellow Saddlebrute (a 4/5 for 3B) in this set. And no one plays either of them! It's like we're at a point where Juzam Djinn could only be printed if it cantripped!)
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Whew. That wraps it up for Khan's block. Did I miss anything?
...
Empty the Pits + Delve for 20
raid, metalcraft, Howl of the Horde +Molten Psyche. (It's a pity that the raid isn't retroactive for triple Berserk or Become immense.)
Shu Yun+Become Immense is cute.
Also, not khans, but Commander 2014 has Dualcaster combos.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phonics
There's a blurry line between combo and synergy, but a two card combination which might allow you to make 4+ 4/4s if you have an army of 1/1s out already... I dunno, seems more like a synergy than a real combo. I mean, Thaumaturge combos like this with lots of cards. Take Turn to Swine, for example.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
What is the minimum number of chaff you need to win with Sidisi + Rooftop?
Best I have is this hilarious and awful combo
4 Rooftop
4 Sidisi
1 Ghoulraiser
2 Lava Zombie
1 Brainstorm/Gut Shot
12 cards and 8 mana to pull off :rolleyes:
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
What is the minimum number of chaff you need to win with Sidisi + Rooftop?
I'm not sure what the best line of play is.
At 7 mana you can hit: Rooftop Storm + Sidisi, Unded Vizier (self exploit) -> Havengul Lich allows for recycling Sidisi as a :1: cost Demonic Tutor, which can chain into a storm win.
You can also 'bootstrap' from 6 mana using extra Sidisis a pile of Sibsig Muckdraggerss, Gravediggers and Gravespawn Sovereign:
With 6 mana cast Rooftop Storm
Cast Sidisi, have him exploit himself. Search for Sibsig Muckdraggers. Return Sidisi to your hand. (Repeat 4x)
Cast Sidisi, have him exploit himself. Search for Gravespawn Sovereign. Activate Sovereign to return Sidisi to play. Exploit one of the muckdraggers. Search for another Sidisi
Cast the new Sidisi. Kill the other Sidisi with the legend rule. Exploit one of the Muckdraggers. Search for Sidisi
Cast the new Sidisi, Kill the other Sidisi with the legend rule. Exploit the last Muckdragger. Search for Gravedigger, chain the Muckdraggers back into play, and a sidisi into your hand
Activate sovereign for a Sidisi effect to pull Havengul Lich.
Cast the Sidisi from your hand to pull Lion's Eye Diamond.
Edit:
How does your combo work?
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
Edit:
How does your combo work?
Rooftop
Sidisi --> Self exploit --> Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Lava Zombie #1
Lava Zombie --> return Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Lava Zombie #2
Lava Zombie chain for a while
Lava Zombie --> return Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Storm card
Win?
Still requires 8 mana . . .
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
Rooftop
Sidisi --> Self exploit --> Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Lava Zombie #1
Lava Zombie --> return Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Lava Zombie #2
Lava Zombie chain for a while
Lava Zombie --> return Ghoulraiser
Ghoulraiser --> return --> Sidisi
Sidisi --> self exploit --> Storm card
Win?
Still requires 8 mana . . .
Do you really need a storm card? You're in a position to chain Lava Zombies off each other freely as much as you want, so you get yourself infinite ETB triggers. Go get yourself an Altar of the Brood for a win at 1 mana. I can't find a free way to win from here... there are no Zombies that grant haste or do something when other Zombies enter the battlefield, except for Noxious Ghoul, but that only lets you wipe the enemy's creatures. You could end with Corpse Connoisseur, but what'ya gonna do; grab a Vengevine for 4 damage? Bleh.
Hm.
I like this combo, though. Rooftop Storm + Sidisi sends you off to the races, and all you really need in your deck otherwise is a Gravedigger-type Zombie and two Lava Zombies. Maybe Altar of the Brood is the best you can do; it'd be really good if there was a way to win from here for free, though.
EDIT: Sedraxis Alchemist can stand in for Lava Zombie, making this combo modern-legal. Since multiple Sidisis can find the Rooftop Storm to begin with, could this possibly be a thing? Can you reach a 5U in Modern within a reasonable time frame?
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Thanks. I missed the Brain Freeze/Grapeshot joke.
You only need one Lava Zombie (or Sedraxis Alchemist) since it can return itself, and could use the Havengul Lich->LED thing to shave off a mana point.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
Lich doesn't shave off a mana point if you're going for an Altar kill anyway; it's one colorless either way.
Also, LED makes it non-Modern legal. Fine and all, but I'm wondering if this combo actually has legs. Winning instantly for 5U might actually be good.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Lich doesn't shave off a mana point if you're going for an Altar kill anyway; it's one colorless either way.
Also, LED makes it non-Modern legal. Fine and all, but I'm wondering if this combo actually has legs. Winning instantly for 5U might actually be good.
If you have Storm, Sidisi and either a 2nd Sidisi, one of the recursion zombies (Ghoulraiser , Gravedigger, etc), or a Mikeaus, the Unhallowed in hand I think you could go off then and there.
does this look right, Assuming a recursion zombie in hand,
Storm
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Mikeaus
Mikeaus
RZ, get back Sidisi
Sidisi > SE twice thanks to Mikeaus giving him Undying. Get Sidsi + Nantuko Husk
Sidisi > SE twice for Gravecrawler + a Recursion zombie
Rz > sidisi
Sidisi > SE twice Sidisi + SSG
Sidisi > SE twice Grapeshot + SSG
Husk
Gravecrawler
loop through casting gravecaller and sacrificing it to husk.
Grapeshot for the win.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Hmm . . . obviously this combo is crap in legacy - but if we can get to a winning combination with just Sidisi and rooftop then it might have a change in modern. . . unfortunately, my combo version requires 8 mana, and the others require another card in the hand.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
Hmm . . . obviously this combo is crap in legacy - but if we can get to a winning combination with just Sidisi and rooftop then it might have a change in modern. . . unfortunately, my combo version requires 8 mana, and the others require another card in the hand.
Hm, oh yeah, you can't keep going with your bounce zombies after you Sidisi for Altar because getting Sidisi back breaks your chain. Hm....
You can add Gravecrawlers to the mix as an early aggro option so you have more stuff in the yard to recur and sacrifice, but Im not sure if that is helpfui.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
Hmm . . . obviously this combo is crap in legacy - but if we can get to a winning combination with just Sidisi and rooftop then it might have a change in modern. . . unfortunately, my combo version requires 8 mana, and the others require another card in the hand.
You could chain Sibsig Muckdraggers and Gravedigger out creatures and then drop Mass Hysteria or Grey Merchant of Asphodel.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
totally forgot about him . . . so here is the minimum for a 2 card combo that costs 5U
Rooftop
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Ghoulraiser > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 2)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Ghoulraiser > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 4)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Ghoulraiser > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 6)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Ghoulraiser > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 8)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Gravedigger > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 9)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Gravedigger > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 10)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Gravedigger > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 11)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Gravedigger > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 12)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Sibsig Muckdraggers > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 13)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Sibsig Muckdraggers > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 14)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Sibsig Muckdraggers > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 15)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Sibsig Muckdraggers > Get Sidisi back (Devotion 16)
Sidisi > Self Exploit > Sibsig Muckdraggers > Get Gray Merchant of Asphodel (Burn for 18)
If that doesn't kill on the spot, you do have 28 power on the board.
Thats
4 Gravedigger
4 Ghoulraiser
4 Sibsig Muckdraggers
4 Sidisi
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Rooftop
22 cards.. . . .
What's the best way to get sidisi and rooftop into play in Modern?
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
...
What's the best way to get sidisi and rooftop into play in Modern?
Perhaps this could go to another thread. That said, it's more efficient to exploit a Muckdragger when you fetch merchant since Sidisi has :b::b: in the casting cost.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
Perhaps this could go to another thread. That said, it's more efficient to exploit a Muckdragger when you fetch merchant since Sidisi has :b::b: in the casting cost.
I'll start a modern thread. . . and good point!
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cire
I'll start a modern thread. . . and good point!
It's a good combo discussion, anyway. I don't like that last combo chain ending with Grey Merchant, though, because it requires you to be playing with 12 terrible, terrible creatures in your deck! The earlier chain getting you to bouncy zombies is a much smaller package. You can get away with only a single copy in your deck.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Containment Priest + Mistmeadow Witch
Certainly not the best thing ever, but a repeatable way to exile creatures.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Commune with Lava + any card that restricts card drawing. For example, um... Maralen of the Mornsong would let you tutor for Commune and cast it right after getting the 'lock', potentially letting you just blow the opponent out before their tutor off of Maralen gives them the W (or maybe you affect that somehow as well, I dunno)
For that matter, Maralen + Stranglehold I guess. lol.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TsumiBand
Commune with Lava + any card that restricts card drawing. For example, um...
Maralen of the Mornsong would let you tutor for Commune and cast it right after getting the 'lock', potentially letting you just blow the opponent out before their tutor off of Maralen gives them the W (or maybe you affect that somehow as well, I dunno)
For that matter, Maralen + Stranglehold I guess. lol.
It doesn't have that "I win now" feeling. I also think that cards like Lion's Eye Diamond, Ill-Gotten Gains and Infernal Tutor have more interesting synergies.
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Re: List of Compact Combos
My favorite is Academy Rector + Diabolic intent, or now + Sidisi, Undead Vizier.
While technically it is not a guaranteed kill it does wipe out 6 permanents, and deal damage.
Kill Rector get Omni, cast Emrakul
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Re: List of Compact Combos
I always wondered how you actually binned your Rector. That seems like a pretty good method.
