[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

It would be also important to note that akroma's vengeance still does not have the cost efficient range to bypass gaddock teeg. Which should be looked considering I could see more threshold players utilitzing teeg in their respective sideboard. Especially when they want to have a better chance against the rising of UWb landstill.

Pernicious deed is probably the most logical alternative to engineered explosives as Clemens stated previously. Clemen's 4c landstill can make full use of deed considering his deck has a flexible manabase and you have easy access to any color you want via E. dragon and multiple fetchlands. Also the fact that dustbowl would seem awesome to me with life from the loam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mister Agent

It would be also important to note that akroma's vengeance still does not have the cost efficient range to bypass gaddock teeg. Which should be looked considering I could see more threshold players utilitzing teeg in their respective sideboard. Especially when they want to have a better chance against the rising of UWb landstill.

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Nobody in the states plays Teeg yet, so we should be good.

Quote:

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Pernicious deed is probably the most logical alternative to engineered explosives as Clemens stated previously. Clemen's 4c landstill can make full use of deed considering his deck has a flexible manabase and you have easy access to any color you want via E. dragon and multiple fetchlands. Also the fact that dustbowl would seem awesome to me with life from the loam.

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I dont think Dust Bowl would be very good with Life from the Loam. The fact that you cant get around Standstill and disrupt people kinda ticks me off. The LftL is better off being a ETutor.


Edit. W00t! I'm the guy who persuaded DIF to add in Dust Bowl and Ponders.

RE: RE: Akorma's Vengance: Yeah, I figured it was too slow for the MD, I was just wondering how CG (formerly Anti-American) felt in gards to their relative speed.

RE: RE: HotS: DIF is right, but I was simply sugesting that they would make Ajani better. Srsly, that second ability is a absolute beast.

I just won a 22 man tourney for 4x Goyfs...list and report to follow

Horray for Arizona Legacy...
Today was definatly the most fun Ive had in a mall based card shop in a while.

I was playing Uwb landstill....

4 Force
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Swords
3 Decree
2 Eternal Dragon
3 Counterbalance
3 Top
4 Counterspell
4 E Tutor
1 EE
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Aura of Silence

4 Mishras Factory
3 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
1 Wasteland
3 Islands
3 Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
2 Underground Sea

Sb
3 Exterpate
2 Engineered Plauge
3 Runed Halo
2 Exalted Angel
1 Chill
1 EE
1 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Threads of Disloyalty

Might be a card or lwo off but thats about right. My goal was to be a good counterbalance deck without being exposed/weakened by the card too much.

Round One U/W control mirror
He plays mainboard scepters which I dont think is very good and disapprove of.

Turn two he plays a scepter>counterspell... I counter he forces and the next turn I drop a pithing needle on him while hes tapped out. I play crucible and waste him out of the game. He has mainboard mages but they get out muscled by my lands. There was some dragon and have to recur it a few times but no big fuss.

Game two a quick counter balance lock ends anything fun he would have done. He destroys one and I cycle decree for five dudes and another one off the draw. Some people just dont come prepared. Halo on mage and I never see another win condition. I also cycled another decree for eight or so...drawing cards and dudes= so good

Fun fact my opening hands in both games had 3 forces and I never cast a single one

Round Two 5c Silvers
Game One
I tutor for balance turn one play it turn two and top turn three... some good... factories finish the job. I saw no distuption and EE cleared the board

Game two
I have a swords heavy hand and make a play mistake and let a crystaline sliver resolve... two plauges counter two pump slivers and I slowly get overwhelmed...I then spend the next couple turns digging for a EE and get one while I was at 3 and it was the third card under the top(how lucky). Again no disruption where do people get these decklists and how did he win round one???

Round Three Classic Red Sligh

Game one- I get burned down fast EE some jackle pups resolve counter top miss two incinerates and die to a friggin ball lightning

Games two and three... Turn one E tutor turn two chill turn three morph... Thats all I really have to say runed halo on ball lightning and he had 3x in his hand at the end of the game. game three runed halo was on bolt and incinerate...he drew 2 of each before the end of the game

Round Four Beserk Stompy

Game one swords to plowshares and EE recursion stablize the board while I was at 5. I literally killed everything with recurring explosives.

Game two I force a turn one winter orb and counterbalance his world away although I did stop 2x riverboas with a runed halo and runed halo on goyf

After round four I was the only undefeated player so round five was not needed

The prize support was 4 goyfs to the winner and nothing else so I had the store owner split my prizes throughout the top 4 so I got 100 in credit 2nd got 75 3rd got 50 and 4th got 25. Im a nice guy spent 50 of it and gave the rest to the store owner.

EE and Runed Halo were MVPs all days but really counter top rocked and its ability to protect your hosers is awesome.

PS Runed Halo is awesome in aggro matchups it counts as removal for all copies of a card

I cycled eternal dragon alot and never really cast/saw decree of justice. They were boarded out most games for halos and any aplicable hoser... Angels came in almost everygame due to the aggro nature of my opponents. The meta was really bad but I was never in any danger of losing any game except against burn game one(which I lost). Every tiered deck I saw lost to the pure randomness that was present.
This makes me feel better about the deck in that metagame control decks usually lose to random.

You have no black Manasource for Extirpate and Plague.

I also count 62 cards.

@lavafrog :
Congratz on the finish!

Looking at your list really made me wonder how you could have withstood any sort of dedicated aggro?
Setting up the CB-Top engine is not much of an option then - it will simply take up too much time.

Without Wrath effects - and a single EE as you only sweeper you don't put much in the way of sligh decks (assume your CBs either thoughtseized or K. gripped g2/3).

If you cannot counter or STP a first turn Lackey you have no way to get back into the game. Post board 2 Exalted Angels, 2 Plague, 1 Needle, 1 Chill will make a difference for sure but more traditional LS lists running 3 Wrath, 2 Humility and 3 EE MB, and 1 tutorable E.P., around 2 BEBs ,1 wishable Pulse of the Fields etc.. in the SB, still have a hard time battling against the little green men.

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Just my 2 pence.

PS: were you happy with a full playset of Enlightened tutors?

The tutors were golden all day... in testing against goblins I pulled about 50/50 which I am ok with in that I didnt expect to see it in the tourney at all.
Tutor is better that thoughtsieze when you are trying to lock down a sligh/aggro deck which is what I saw all day long. It allows you to have the balance without having it in your hand(top is played on 1st turn).

Additionaly the tutors allow you to choose what you need to do better than the cunning wishes...I was able to get a crucible and set up infi 3/3 blockers while the goblins player was dropping 1 threat a turn(chill). I beleive the numbers need to be adjusted and I will try to find room for wrath or humility but most importantly I need to squeeze in 1 or 2 more explosives.

Also in testing I brought in the runed halos against goblins...protection from piledriver and siegegang is pretty good I here. Again with the four tutors it is like running 6x plauges followed by 5x chill and 7x halo and they interchange with eachother when you need them to.

One tech play of the day was to tutor a standstill on the top of my deck...counterbalance a goyf and play the standstill the next turn(who says the tutors are disadvantage)

There is alot of versitile hate in this deck.

But again all I played was 1 mirror match and three sui-aggro matchups.

I would like Balanced Still, but I think the Landstill shell smiply can't support CB Top with about 23+ Lands, and you have to take out Counters or Board Control elements for it what imo is not good for the deck.

May be you can build a list with less then 3 CB/Top with your MD Tutors to have the Space for the other important Stuff.

list follows in a couple of minutes

EDIT:
work of some minutes
// Lands
3 [U] Tundra
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
3 [U] Underground Sea
1 [U] Scrubland
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
2 [TE] Humility
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [MM] Counterspell
2 [MR] Oblivion Stone
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will

cc0 24
cc1 13
cc2 11
cc3 3
cc4 4
cc5 4
cc7 1

Still not a perfect curve for CB.
2 O-Stone because I tutor for them and I needed Stuff in the cc3 Slot.
only 2 Sensei because I have Brainstorms, can tutor for them and can recur them with Academy.
The SB would contain some Silverbullets like Needle, Chill/CoP, maybe Energy Flux, Crypt...

I felt three was correct because it is hhuge in so many matchups Counter top essentially cuts your opponent off of 1cc and 2cc in the deck with the savage ability to turn enlightened tutors into counterspells.

I have hit threes and fours with the deck (crucible, aura, DoJ) and with all of the shuffle effects you can see alot of cards with the top alone.

With all of the 1s and 2s out of your opponents deck it becomes alot easier to use the rest of your control elements to win the game from there.

I am considering some runed halos main for their overall usefullness in matchups where people want to hurt you...

100th post HOOT

With 4 Enlightened Tutor I'm pretty sure there's no defensible reason not to run 1 Humility or Moat.

I think if I could I would run a humility main over the aura of silence. I wanted a 3cc out to counterbalance or pithing needle(on explosives) though.

I dont like moat due to the fact that it shuts down the majority of my win conditions. Humility is a bomb that shuts down any creature based decks but nil against combo.

I actually am considering mainboard halos... im working on it now.

Conversely I ran off of three lands on more than one occasion due to opposing wastelands the only card in my list that costs more than three being decree(can be cycled) and dragon(can also be cycled). I beleive this is unique for a dedicated control deck like mine. The dragon and the decree are there to win the mirror and to get through opposing contertops.

the counterbalance converted mana cost is not that terrible since you have to add + nº enlightened tutors you run to cmc 2 and 3 (and 4)
I would only run 1 Humility mainboard to tutor it specifically against those matchups where it shines (perhaps I would add one to the side)

Oblivion ring is a good choice for 3cmc.

The decks real flaw is that its mass removal is quite limited though.
I play 2 Wraths, 1 EE 1 O.ring 4 swords + a control magic or threads of disloyalty.

I have not tested Oblivion stone but it seems a bit slow in paper and conflicts with our permanents.

As for the reasons to splash black,
tutorable E.plague for goblins/faries/ichorid/elves and EE for 3
any more? Extirpate
is it really woth it? a more solid mana base is preferable?

This is the sideboard of the list I posted a few pages ago just to give an idea of a UW version (+ added humility)

4 Meddling Mage
2 Runed Halo
1 Humility
1 Cop Red
1 Cop green
1 Seal of cleasing (it has more reach than EE)
2 Tormod's crypt
3 Hydroblast


@lavafrogg
congrats first of all!

CoP' Red is much better than chill, since goblins can play around it with lackey/vial/chief.
In your version you have only 3 fetchlands!, 5-6 are necessary to maximize top.
It is a great idea to have the alternative wincons you have(E.angel)

One small note;

@IronStickMan: Instead of CoP: G, run Story Circle instead; it can be sided in against Goblins to get around Pithing Needle and keeps you safe from Goyfs.

My list:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
4 Mirsha's Factory
//25

//Creatures
1 Eternal Dragon
//1

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
3 Engeneered Explosives
2 Humility
2 Decree of Justice
//34

Suggestions?

Imo 25 Lands are to much, atm I play only 23 with 1 Dragon and I would never play more then 24.
If you play Wastelands you can think about play more Lands.

-Polluted Delta
+Decree of Justice
Decree is really strong if you draw multiple early simply cycle for 0 or 1 and draw a card.

-Hallowed Fountain
You don't want any Lifeloss besides fetchlands
+Tundra/Basics/Wasteland/Dust Bowl(Clemens and CG's Secret Tech)
or
+Crucible
imo Crucible is really strong it wins the mirror/Loam and other Decks which attack your Lands

Thats the list I play:
I still think MD Tutors are good, you can find gamebreaking cards like Humility or Crucible and PostBoard I play some SilverBullits with 3 E Tutors.
// Lands 23
2 [UNH] Island
3 [UNH] Plains
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [U] Underground Sea
3 [U] Tundra
1 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures 1
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells 36
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
1 [MR] Oblivion Stone
2 [TE] Humility
4 [MM] Counterspell
2 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

Would you guys play the 3rd Plains or Island?
MD I have 4x UU and 4x WW (6 with Return to Dust and Pulse)
Post Board + Story Circle and Halo
So I would play the Plains.

I like the MD Tutors. I've taken a similar aproace in other decks, and it works out nicely, having things that work in the deck at regular numbers and then having a E. Tutor or two to act as more flexible extra copies of each, as opposed to an overload of E. Tutors and a toolbox. I'd recomend against the Oblivion Stone though, I'd elect for another Explosives or a Nevin's Disk, but I personally just don't like O. Stone, so take that with a grain of salt.

@ basic lands, I'd say the third Plains, as your flexible, permanent answers are mostly WW, which is a little more important than Counterspell (although Islands are mandatory, of course, permission only stops a threat, Humility, RtD, Pulse, and Wrath stop >1).

Also, what does your board generally look like?

I think at the "Deutsche Legacy Meisterschaft" Ill play something like this:
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 3 [IA] Hydroblast (Goblins/Loam/DStompy)
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [10E] Story Circle (Mono Colored Aggro)
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle (Vial, Deed maybe Equipments)
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague (some Tribal Shit)
SB: 1 [MM] Energy Flux (Affinity, Staxx or even DStompy)

Ill expect an extreme random meta with some Affinity, random Aggro Decks + many Tier 1 and 2 Decks (LS/Thresh/Dredge/Dragon Stompy maybe Enchantress/ITF).
There will be T2 and EXT players who probably play Budget Decks.

Hey, iam playing exact the same list but,

MB:
- 1 [MR] Oblivion Stone
- 1 [IN] Fact or Fiction

+ 1 Vedalken Shackles
+ 1 EE, [maybe a third Wrath iam not sure]


SB:

- 2 [IA] Hydroblast
- 1 [MM] Energy Flux
- 1 [10E] Pithing Needle

+ 4 Meddling Mage


and surprise also at the "Deutsche Legacy Meisterschaft".

I expect a very random meta, every kid will grap his deck and come along.
But your Sb is a very good one, i'll test it.

I still like O-Stone.

I would play the 3rd Wrath over the 3rd EE because you can tutor for them and recur with Academy.

Shackles could be good in a Random meta but with an Island count of 6 stealing Goyf could be a problem.
But its still a nice Tutor target and nice with Academy.


I have to test Ponder in the FoF Slot, if Clemens play them they have to be good especially with a low landcount ;)
But I really like FoF in some situations, your opponent cast a spell, you FoF in response and he makes 1(Counter)/4 piles you take 4 cards and play the counter in your hand, thats CA. :cool:

Maybe Ill play TES at "DLM" I do not want do play the mirror every round ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

I dont think Dust Bowl would be very good with Life from the Loam. The fact that you cant get around Standstill and disrupt people kinda ticks me off. The LftL is better off being a ETutor.

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I actually like LftL with dustbowl mainly since you don't have to sacrifice itself for obvious utility against the opposition. I also like the redundancy that loam acknowledges mainly since it's resilient to countermagic and other form of disruption. But then again I include a singleton crucible of worlds as well. This topic should probably be discussed further in the alternative landstill thread mainly because I am referring to a 4 color build I have been working on. Where recurring lands becomes more prominant especially for oppositional generic disruption/utility(example: stifle and wasteland).

However, you stated a relevant reason with crucible operating under a standstill. This is justifiable of course since breaking your own draw engine can be an oxymoron.

Hello with respect the list I posted UI refer to:
4 Swords to plowshares
4 counterbalance
4 FoW
4 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Semseis d.t
1 scroll Rack
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 E.Explosives
1 Pithin nedle
1 Oblivion ring
1 Oblivion Stone
2 eternal dragon
2 standstill
3 Enlitghned tutor
1 crucible of worlds.

Lands:
4 Islands
2 plain
1 academy ruins
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 Tundra
3 wasteland
3 faerie conclave

I ve been playin several games with it and I find several problems I'll expose:
1)I most of the times loose vs decks which carry counterbalance, its true if you dont have FoW you'll losoe allways to a RESOLVED opposing counterbanace.

2)I supposed to win stablishing some kinf of lock via : moat- hu,milty in order to win at least vs decks of creatures.

3) My main and almost lonely win cond if the flying land creature Faerie conclave, wich is too slow: I mean I feel comforatble starting to attcck with at least 7 lands in play ... not productive I need 10m more turns to win¡¡

4) I thouth that the hu,mulity-moat locks didnt affect to conclave and you know what? true its a 2/1 body but LOOSES fliyng.
NOT problems:
1) O-Stone is great : iis equalityly as fadst as N.Disk ena makes our permanents stay in table and we in this deck have a lot

2)definately S.Rack > S.D.Top in synergy with c.b
3) with this deck having been confectionated to get the most of the great card c.b I even have won to a survival deck.

CONCLUSIONS:
1)we need something vs opposin c.b: snares is the main option
2) Turning the deck to a U/B/W version gwould give us B.Blossom and exytripate mainly.
3) we have to chose between humility and moat at least we change the win condition. I opted for the 2nd option . I found this list wich did inspire to create the following deck;
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=5994

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

4) I thouth that the hu,mulity-moat locks didnt affect to conclave and you know what? true its a 2/1 body but LOOSES fliyng.

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That's not correct. With Humility in play, each activation of Conclave will set a new timestamp, thus making it a 2/1 creature AND granting it flying.

The only way Conclave won't have flying is if it's activated and Humility enters play after that.

There is a good version of the deck:

http://www.trader-online.de/turniere...07-12-T15.html

Moatility

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taurelin

That's not correct. With Humility in play, each activation of Conclave will set a new timestamp, thus making it a 2/1 creature AND granting it flying.

The only way Conclave won't have flying is if it's activated and Humility enters play after that.

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Right, to be more detailed, when two continuous effect interact on the same layer the one which predominates on the other is the newest on timestamp order, so:

here the "flying ability" is granted to conclave on layer 5
humility modifies that on layer 5, removing all abilities,
BUT, the timestamp order allows conclave to have the "flying ability" overwriting the humility effect on the same layer.
THEN conclave becomes a 2/1 (instead of 1/1), this is due to the interaction of 2 effect on the same layer (6b), and thus timestamp is applied.

In conclusion, if you activate conclave, when humility is in play ALREADY (even if you didn't play it in the same turn), you'll have a 2/1 beater with flying.

Nice, isn't it?

Just wanted to keep people informed: I played my newest list (2 Ponder, 1 Enlightened Tutor, 3 Counterspell, 3 Factory) at yesterday's Hassloch event and finished with a horrible 3-2-1 record.
I played against Vaka Pox (2:1), Burn (2:0), TES (2:1), NQS feat. Stiflenought + FEB packages (1:1), Aggro Loam (0:2) and Ugb Tempo Thrash (0:2 - wtf. This should really not happen), in this order.

What really annoyed me all day long was how incredibly clunky the list still is despite all my recent changes - I just can't figure how people can get away with playing Deed/Fact/Oblivion Stone when already my rather streamlined build has trouble with its own Curve.
As for the positives: Ponder was the second best card in the deck all day long (right after Brainstorm) and deserves to be more than a 2off.

Changes after the event:

-2 Couterspell
+2 Spell Snare

More copies of Counterspell got the axe because they were horrible all day long (again) - they are terribly slow, especially in the face of Daze and Wasteland and never really feel strong enough as they will trade with something as expensive as themselves most of the time.
I'm currently trying some Spell Snares in the Counterspell slot and they are pretty decent taking care of almost everything Counterspell normally counters at a discount price - you just have to be a little more careful with what to Force as you aren't that flexible with your Permission anymore.

-1 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Decree of Justice
+2 Ponder

Tutor was okay but never really overwhelming - I'll rather take the consistency of Ponder over it: playing more blue cards is always great and a better early-game is more important than the random possibility to tutor up a Crucible of Worlds or to play a more flexible sideboard.
Brehn suggested to cut the Decree which seems reasonable: with 8 cantrips you have a better earlygame than with more (clunky) DoJs while still being able to dig into it whenever you need it.

-1 Wrath of God
+1 Engineered Explosives

This change was basically implemented to have more outs against Chalice and Counterbalance to whom you expose yourself more by playing less clunky stuff. Also, playing less colour intensive spells is always nice considering the horrible manabase.

-1 Plains
+1 Island

This change ensues from the migration towards a more Blue-based maindeck.

The full list I'm going to test/play from now on can be found here.

Here's my latest report.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=10736

@D.I.F.
I liked the inclusion of Ponder. I only ran a single copy [like the coward I am] and was never unpleased to rip it off the top.
So you're upping your Ponder count to 3..sounds OK to me - I think it might be neat to add another Delta for more shuffle effects in that case.
[Side note: Since Ponder is a mana fixer, too I guess 4cc LS might profit from it even more.]

Going down to 1 CS in favor for 3 Spell Snare seems radical to me. I used to play 3 CS, 2 Spell Snare back in the day and was never really too pleased with that split. The overall meta has shifted to a speedier environment so Spellsmare might be a feasible call. I might try a 2-2 split in the near future and see how it flows..

the 4th EE looks reasonable in the face of more 1cc spells that make you more vulerable to CB. Needle on EE will suck even more.

Keep up the good work!

--

@all:

What do you think about Konsultant's latest UWg list?
Ajani...4 Wrath...
I going test his list with the following changes:
MB:
-1 Dragon
+1 Monastery

SB:
-1 Wrath
+1 ?

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=18339
Klaus

Mmmh, I'm wondering if the green splash for krosan grip only is worth of it.
The strange thing I noticed is that cunning wish is missing, so I can't realize how he can get the grip when he needs it, obviously the splash is also for the third e.e. counter, but, imho, the better splash is black, even without wish.

Maybe I'm wrong, surely in his meta he seems to rock...

Besides, I don't like very much ajani, if I picked up a plainswalker I'd choose Garruk without any doubt, this second ability is really too much powerful to be ignored, and even the third ability doesn't cost so much fidelty counters, ajani's third ability isn't as powerful as could seem, mainly because the avatar doesn't have any evasive ability, so, I don't know, to be honest I'd never splash green only for 3 cards which remains 3/60 even post board (with 2/3 wish even 3 instant card could be 5-6/60).
However keep us updated with your tests :wink:

PS: forgive my English :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mandalore

Mmmh, I'm wondering if the green splash for krosan grip only is worth of it.

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Counterbalance is a painful card to handle. This might be the reasoning.

Quote:

---

Besides, I don't like very much ajani, if I picked up a plainswalker I'd choose Garruk without any doubt, this second ability is really too much powerful to be ignored, and even the third ability doesn't cost so much fidelty counters, ajani's third ability isn't as powerful as could seem, mainly because the avatar doesn't have any evasive ability, so, I don't know, to be honest I'd never splash green only for 3 cards which remains 3/60 even post board (with 2/3 wish even 3 instant card could be 5-6/60).
However keep us updated with your tests :wink:

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The reasons to run Ajani is

1. Within your primary color.
2. Makes Life.
3. Turns innocently cycled for 3 soldier tokens turn into 2/2 one turn, 3/3 the next.
4. Forces them to kill Ajani or else the arrival of the Avatar token will kill in one swing.

I have been testing out the 2 counterspell/3 spell snare permission configuration earlier and I must say DIF landstill has more of a responsive interaction in the early game. This permission configuration also creates more flexbility for brainstorm/ponder to deal with a variety of threats in the early phases as well. With a more general view of course, this flexilibity allows you to play more lenient against decks that can outplay you on early tempo advantage.

Not saying you should always push for the late game but with better cost efficient utility tools you have more freedom to pick and choose your spots. This paradigm overall can make landstill a more consistent deck especially on tight ropes against a influx of opposing odds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mister Agent

I have been testing out the 2 counterspell/3 spell snare permission configuration earlier and I must say DIF landstill has more of a responsive interaction in the early game. This permission configuration also creates more flexbility for brainstorm/ponder to deal with a variety of threats in the early phases as well. With a more general view of course, this flexilibity allows you to play more lenient against decks that can outplay you on early tempo advantage.

Not saying you should always push for the late game but with better cost efficient utility tools you have more freedom to pick and choose your spots. This paradigm overall can make landstill a more consistent deck especially on tight ropes against a influx of opposing odds.

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I still see it as right to run at least 2 Counterspells. Some players will stall Standstill so that when they do decide to break it, you have UU open and you will probably be more than able to counter it without pitching a card to FoW or walk into Daze.

The new list looks like it's better at combating early-mid game; of course, you usually want to move your opponent into late game so you can outplay him. Apparently, DIF's new list doesn't play anything like UW Landstill, but more like the UR Landstill in vintage if you replace "disrupt" with "answer."

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Originally Posted by Mandalore

Mmmh, I'm wondering if the green splash for krosan grip only is worth of it.
The strange thing I noticed is that cunning wish is missing, so I can't realize how he can get the grip when he needs it, obviously the splash is also for the third e.e. counter, but, imho, the better splash is black, even without wish.

Maybe I'm wrong, surely in his meta he seems to rock...

Besides, I don't like very much ajani, if I picked up a plainswalker I'd choose Garruk without any doubt, this second ability is really too much powerful to be ignored, and even the third ability doesn't cost so much fidelty counters, ajani's third ability isn't as powerful as could seem, mainly because the avatar doesn't have any evasive ability, so, I don't know, to be honest I'd never splash green only for 3 cards which remains 3/60 even post board (with 2/3 wish even 3 instant card could be 5-6/60).
However keep us updated with your tests

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The Green splash is definetly worth adding Grip. The Muc match up becomes a joke with them not able to protect Back to Basics and with the surge of Imperial Painter and the Epic Painter in my area Grip has become MVP. The one Grip in the SB obviously wasn't meant to be wished for since I wasn't running Wish but my SB strategy against alot of decks included boarding out the 2 Humility and boarding in the 4th Wrath and 3rd Grip. Mostly if they saw Humility game one and I expected Grip to come in for them I would board out Humility. The other reason for the single Grip in the SB was I hated drawing multiple's game one against decks where it wasn't relevent. Only running 2 MD while having access to the third for games 2 and 3 seems to be working quite well. Muc and Painter are obviously only a couple of reasons to play it, I have always favored Disenchant effects MD for the versitility of MD removal. They are almost never useless and have given me a number of games.

The 3rd color is needed for EE regardless of what color it is, I felt Grip was more relevent than Extirpate and so I switched to Green. I do miss the Extirpate's in the SB against Ichorid and Loam but Grip hits a much broader part of the format and I am running Crypt. I am trying to add Green and Black but I don't know if I can make the Mana Base work in UW/xx.

Regarding Ajani, PLAY THIS CARD. If you are still trying to justify whether or not to run it, it means one thing, you haven't tryed playing it yet. It appears to be only somewhat usefull but this card is game breaking. The avatar token does have evasion in the form of Wrath of God, then make token. Landstill being able to swng for a full 20+ points of damage in one swing without tapping any mana is ridiculous. Your worst case scenario is they keep dropping chump blockers and you don't have STP or EE and they have to deal with an Abyss. The Abyss effect is pretty damn good for Landstill. I have had my avatar's STP'd a few times as well and going to 50+ life has never been bad for me. Let's not forget you can keep making avatar tokens for free over time whitch is exactly what Landstill gives you. You can't run Garruck on 3 sources of Green Mana in the deck and the untapping of 2 lands is irrelevent most of the time unlike the 2 life whitch is almost always relevent. The main power of Ajani lies in the +1+1 counters with vigilance, one factory can swing for 4, soldiers double in power and can still chump block. I can't imagine anybody actually playing Ajani in a few events and being disappointed with it. Ajani gives Landstill the explosive aggro effect that people were looking for by trying to add Goyf to Landstill but Ajani has huge synergy with Wrath of god and still functions well with Humility in play.

I do admitt that I lost to Ichorid and Aggro Loam at worlds and Extirpate would have fixed both those match ups alot but I could have beaten both of them with the cards I played, I am working on getting a build together that can run Grip and Extirpate AND still have a solid Mana Base against non-basic hate. At the moment I am testing some ideas but nothing has been working as good as I would like it to quite yet.

Konsultant: is there any reason not to run Pernicious Deed after you are playing black and green? I'm aware that Wrath would/ could be easier to cast, but if you're already running 4 colors, why not make the manabase less W-heavy and play the superior board sweep?

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Originally Posted by raharu

Konsultant: is there any reason not to run Pernicious Deed after you are playing black and green? I'm aware that Wrath would/ could be easier to cast, but if you're already running 4 colors, why not make the manabase less W-heavy and play the superior board sweep?

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Deed isn't superior though. Deed is more susceptible to disruption like Stifle, and makes Blood Moon effects a pain in the ass. Why not stick to WoG which can function under Blood Moon through tight play, I mean WoG is better for you because Landstill's tendencies tend to involve slow-rolling major answers like WoG. Besides that, I have never liked playing more than 4 fetchlands, because I keep hearing stories of Landstill players randomly losing to Thrash randomly. Also, the deck works fine without it the 5th and 6th fetchlands, so whatever.

I presume that is a metagame call and a matter of personal preference. WoG isn't relevant against enchantress, doesn't hit CB, etc., etc.

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Originally Posted by raharu

I presume that is a metagame call and a matter of personal preference. WoG isn't relevant against enchantress, doesn't hit CB, etc., etc.

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How often do you play against Enchantress in a standard metagame and Krosan Grips/Cunning Wish/EE should already answer Counterbalance.

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

How often do you play against Enchantress in a standard metagame and Krosan Grips/Cunning Wish/EE should already answer Counterbalance.

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Jitte, Chalices, Blood Moons (although that's seriously not ever going to happen with any amount of frequency), Crubicle of Worlds, sitting EEs, Aether Vials, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Survival of the Fittist, Artifact lands, and WoG doesn't supress man-lands.

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Originally Posted by raharu

Jitte, Chalices, Blood Moons (although that's seriously not ever going to happen with any amount of frequency), Crubicle of Worlds, sitting EEs, Aether Vials, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Survival of the Fittist, Artifact lands, and WoG doesn't supress man-lands.

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That's a good list of cards. But bastardizing your mana base to fit in non-basics just to combat Stax kind of puzzles me. I may consider it when Blood Moons disappear. The mana base I would run would be

1 Tolaria West
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Island

2 Eternal Dragon


Which is a fairly stable mana base. The only problem I have with this list isn't Wasteland, it's Blood Moon. When that leaves the format, I'll got back to running Deeds.

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

That's a good list of cards. But bastardizing your mana base to fit in non-basics just to combat Stax kind of puzzles me. I may consider it when Blood Moons disappear. The mana base I would run would be

1 Tolaria West
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Island

2 Eternal Dragon


Which is a fairly stable mana base. The only problem I have with this list isn't Wasteland, it's Blood Moon. When that leaves the format, I'll got back to running Deeds.

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Truth. Also, I didn't think that Staxx used most of those cards when I drafted the list :laugh:

Yeah, Moon effects are gay :frown:, not a whole lot to do there... Personally I think that the sweeper depends on the deck's strategy, so I like WoG myself (as it's less mana intensive and doesn't hit CB and whatnot, which I have a tenancy to run in most decks I play with blue sources in them), but I'll readily concede that it's the sweeper of choice, in an ideal setting, but a Moon-infested meta is far from ideal.

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Originally Posted by raharu

Truth. Also, I didn't think that Staxx used most of those cards when I drafted the list :laugh:

Yeah, Moon effects are gay :frown:, not a whole lot to do there... Personally I think that the sweeper depends on the deck's strategy, so I like WoG myself (as it's less mana intensive and doesn't hit CB and whatnot, which I have a tenancy to run in most decks I play with blue sources in them), but I'll readily concede that it's the sweeper of choice, in an ideal setting, but a Moon-infested meta is far from ideal.

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In Counterbalance based deck, I'd rather have Pernicious Deed because you can just win once you wipe the board clean of pesky cards like AEther Vial and Bitterblossom, so you can safely cast Counterbalance and Top and win.