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Nice Job Matt! Which do you think is better against GOBOS, Jitte or SOFI....i guess it depends where in the game you are and if you are behind or not. I think you will like the Tidehollows. Did you ever wish you had an Urborg at any point?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocMethod
Nah, we got plenty merfolks and goblins. I'll try out your tactic and see how it go's :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeOberg
@ sensei's divining tops - If you play tops, you should play more fetches to shuffle away dead draws.
@ mana base - although this deck curves out at 3, I like playing 4-5 lands per game because we want to drop a threat and removal/disruption especially when we draw more cards with bob. I hate being stuck on 2-3 lands and deciding between threat/equipment/removal. However, I do think all mono colored / dual colored decks should play wasteland because you can always fit them in and sometimes it can single handedly win the game for you.
@ new critters - I'm not sure if I want to dedicate sideboard slots for either. Mainboard wise, I still like nighthawk more because of the lifelink and flying. The new pithing needle creature might replace needles or a split between them...
@ sword of feast and famine - too situational. you will either need bob or sofi in play already to take advantage of the untapping. And I don't think the discard ability comes in fast enough.
@ Rebirth - maybe its your meta, but how are the inquistions doing for you compared to thoughtseizes? Natural orders scare me and discarding a FoW to land a mystic is pretty bomb.
@ TheSocMethod - Congrats and how do you like elspeth?
It hits 90% of the cards that are relevent. the one it doesn't hit and which sucks is goblin ringtard, but i can take those with hymn and sculler so np. No life loss really makes a difference when you are casting your second or even third Inquisition :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rickythejerk
@Jade: Jitte is so versatile. The fact that you can swap it onto a blocker after attacks and have that alone be a deterrent to them attacking is huge against goblins. Yes, you can do that with SoFI, but I think 2 more Jitte counters is far scarier to a Goblin slinger than just a guaranteed kill of one of their dudes. Actually, it was white I was shut off of :) Seriously though, Urborg can save you 3-4 life sometimes and make your Wastelands more versatile, but it's another target to be wasted. I would be uncomfortable keeping a hand with urborg, scrubland, fetch/wasteland, and it seems like you could run into that sort of thing alot... but I haven't tried it out much...
@ricky: Thanks. Would've been nice to crack top 4 though because I had favorable MUs. The best technical player won though, so I can't complain too much. I found Elspeth to be a win-more. She was the first thing I boarded out in every MU. I'm cutting her and the singleton Verdict for 3 Scullers. I think my list is now identical to Jade's, land choices notwithstanding. I think he's got the list right if you don't want to run Vial or Top.
@Rebirth: The TS or IoK debate is what I go back and forth on the most when I put this list together before every tournament. If my meta wasn't infested with so much damn combo I'd probably run a split, but I need to frequently grab tendrils, ad nausem, charbelcher, EtW, etc. The life loss of multiple TS's does add up at an alarming rate in this deck since we give away life like crazy already, but we do have 6 pieces of life gain. And, most importantly, IoK completely whiffs on cards we really want to grab, like the aforementioned combo pieces, Good Jace, Sneak Attack, Humility, and to a lesser extent, FoW. Yes, we have Vindicate to deal with Jace and the like, but I'd much rather he never hit the board. I don't want to take the 1 in 3 chance of hitting their business with Hymn. Sculler is a house against combo though :)
Yeah, i know what you mean. Slightly off topic rant, but this always happens to black, while they print over the top cards for green and blue (recently, prime titan, vengevine, jace 2.0) they always manage to make black cards just good enough without it being "awesome". I don't know if i am the only one here, but i think the 2 lifeloss on thoughtseize is totally overdone and shouldn't be there :rolleyes: but yeah i am biased when it comes to black :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocMethod
I have 2 duress in my SB aswell so that is around 10 disruption to hit important stuff with hymn and sculler, luckily not much tendrils decks here :)
I'm one of the guys who really likes the looks of Mirran Crusader in this deck. I can't shake this obsession with a doublestrike dude carrying an equipment. I was thinking something like this...
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
3x Swamp
2x Plains
4x Mother of Runes
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stonforge Mystic
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
The more I think about it, I also seem to want to find a way to shove Sensei's Divining Top in here too.
Something like this maybe? -1 Mom, -1 Hymn, -1 Mystic; +3 SDT
I know a lot of you don't like Mirran Crusader, but any suggestions would be nice.
Agreed. Or rather, -1 Mom, -1 Mystic, -1 Nighthawk. I think I'd rather garauntee a Hymn over a Nighthawk. Or even cut a land. I've found 20 is fine, especially since you'd be dropping 5cc or 6cc in cards for 3cc.Quote:
Originally Posted by maximumcarnage
Obviously, nothing can be conclusively said without testing. That said, I think Crusader will turn out to be an example of a win-more card. Yes, four counters on Jitte or two triggers from the swords (especially SoFI) is extremely appealing, and sounds damn fun. However, if we have a stick equipped to a dude, chances are we're already winning, which is why I think the slot is better served by Tidehollow Sculler or more disruption. Which MUs do you think Mirran Crusader can improve?Quote:
Originally Posted by maximumcarnage
Also, and this is less of an issue, but getting double white can sometimes be difficult, which is a big reason I stopped playing Elspeth. If you're running top though, that will smooth out your mana development... I personally wouldn't cut SFM. She's the best topdeck we have.
@ InRespnseForceOfWill-
Yeah Nighthawk could be a good choice to cut instead of Hymn, especially if we're adding another heavy-hitter finisher. However, I do often times find Nighthawk's lifelink to be HUGE mid to late game with all of the life I give away. But a second turn Hymn can be really crippling. I don't know. We'll just have to tinker around with it a little and see where it goes.
@TheSocMethod-
True. A lot of the time we are already ahead by the time we get a dude equipped. But not always. Crusader could end up being that eplosive game changer when we find ourselves in a hole.
As far as which MU's he could help improve, I think he could make us better in every MU we're already decent or competative in. And he may end up being just a win more, we'll just have to see. Like you said, we can't really know anything until we test him.
And I agree with you about the Mystic. We probably should try to find a better cut. Suggestion?
I have my doubts about Crusader, but it can improve matchups with decks that run black and green creatures. For example, you could be playing Zoo and facing down a big Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary. Crusader can carry equipment right by them, while a smaller creature might be too little to get past the big green creature, even with a +2/+2 bonus from a sword. I think the problem with Crusader is that he eats red and white removal spells, which are the most popular in the format. You spend three mana on a creature that dies to a one mana removal spell (StP, Bolt, etc.). Most of the other three drops in the format are big enough to be out of bolt range (Knight, Rhox War Monk), or give you some kind of benefit as they hit the battlefield (Vendilion Clique). However, there are certain circumstances, such as the one I described above, in which Crusader could be very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocMethod
I'm not flaming anyone here, but I don't see how eating it to Swords and Bolt makes the Crusader worse than Nighthawk. Nighthawk does this as well.
I understand he doesn't have any of Nighthawk's abilities, which are all awesome, but he does have 2 relevant protections built-in and the doublestrike is nothing to sneeze at even when he's not equipped.
Why isn't Stillmoon Cavalier used at all? Pro White/Black is good. And i'm tired of "It dies to Bolt" cause everything else here does too technically.
If you equip a SoFI its basically untouchable. So why is it not used?
Stillmoon Cavalier isn't widely used because he's competing with Nighthawk for the 3-drop slot, who is certainly superior. Despite that he could be good in a black/white heavy meta.
My decklist post Mirrodin Besieged.
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Tomb of Urami : This has won me so many games. Synergy with Mox.
1x Karakas - Because I own one.
1x Urborg - Smooths out my Black, making Hymm easier to cast.
2x Mox Diamond - Moxes are underused in non-combo decks. I can easily recover the card loss and need the tempo boost.
4x Mother of Runes
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stonforge Mystic
3x Mirran Crusader - Vampire Nighthawk doesn't close the door. He gives your opponent too many topdeck opportunities (this has always been one of two huge problems for discard). Crusader is a 2 Swing clock with SoFI, Jitte, or a large Bonehoard. He is also deadly with no equipment and has protection from Goyf, black removal and other useful threats.
4x Inquisition of Kozilek - The life loss on Thoughtseize sucks and hurts tough match-ups for us.
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Gerrard's Verdict - Basically Hymm 5-7, but also is random life gain and in an emergency can hit myself.
4x Vindicate
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Bonehoard - With SFM you have a tutorable and uncounterable creature for very cheap. Not to mention it is potentially huge in size and even when killed stays on the field as a deadly piece of equipment. Great synergy with Discard.
My SB is a work in progress. I know there will be GY hate as a 4 of and probably Phyrexian Revoker x 4.
LOL! I enjoyed your expaination for why you run Karakas, Angelfire.
I was gonna wirte the whole "it deals with legendary creatures like Emrakul and Iona", but I figured that was better rationale :)Quote:
Originally Posted by maximumcarnage
Does my deck count as Deadguy? Or is it more a just a generic BW Tempo deck?
Deck *
Land: 22
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
Creatures: 16
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Serra Avenger
2 Jotun Grunt
Spells: 22
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Anyway, I have been fiddling with the Crusader with good results. Not sure if he's better than a Nighthawk, though.
Anyone taken a look at leonin relic-warder yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolhell
I have and decided I can't play it in my build due to...
1. Double white mana, when I'm running 8 double blacks (Nighthawk and Hymn)
2. I'm not running vial. Which would make him really good.
3. He's a little reactionary where I'm trying to be proactive in build...I can see some people maybe taking out scullers for him..but scullers are way more proactive. Sure, both of these guys may miss on their abilities from time to time...but the new guy will miss way more. IMHO.
@ boneclub....yes Dead guy...pretty much anything midrangy aggro with black and white and dark confidant