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There is a lot of talk in Legacy forums that DTT could be banned coming Origins. My question is, will this kill the deck? At the moment, it is my only blue deck and I couldn't imagine playing anything else that was blue-based. It's just such a fun deck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentane
probably becom what tier 2?
:maybe we came back to play Dream Halls end Enter the Infinite :cry: i prefer quit over play Dream Halls again.
maybe they Ban Sensei and not DTT :cool::cool::cool::cool:
Oh c'mon, don't be so dramatic :tongue: halls started to suck because they printed this whole delve thing - it wasn't that hard before :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroko16
About ban of sensei - true, I won't cry :cool::cool:
I'm still not actually convinced that DTT+Probe without Dream Halls is better than EtI+DTT-Probe with Dream Halls. Without EtI, we have a much more difficult time beating Ethersworn Canonist (we must have Emrakul, a Wipe Away, or Wish+2nd business spell in hand). Further, we never fizzled before. I've been left in situations numerous times where I dig into cantrips that leave me with nothing. From playing a bunch of games, I'm not sure that we're actually above 80% to win the game when we combo, which is a pretty high rate of failure. Without Dream Halls, we have to resort to garbage like Young Pyromancer to beat the mirror, and are left with far fewer business spells in the face of discard from Grixis and other combo decks.
Now that Lille is over, here's my list that I've been playing:
5 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Stand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
1 Split Decision
//Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Massacre
1 Swamp
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
My tournament in Lille went like this:
Matchups Day1:
Goblins 2-1
ANT 1-2
Miracles 2-0
MUD 2-1
RUG Delver 0-2
Belcher 2-0 (he conceded because he forgot to drop)
Jund 2-0
Elves 2-0
Miracles 2-0
7-2
Matchups Day2:
RUG Delver 2-0 (gameloss for tardiness, though)
BUG Delver 0-2 (didn't find a SnT in g1. And in g2, Omniscience + SnT doesn't do shit with 4 lands in my hand and another 3 from the top)
Jund Dephts 0-2 (Didn't find SnT in time g1 and got killed by Marit Lage on Turn4 and in g2 I had the 3rd Turn Kill, but he opens with Faithless Looting on Turn 1 and Animate Dead on Turn 2 for Sire of Insanity. One of my hardest tilts of all time).
Grixis Delver 1-2 (Emrakul in g1, manaflood in g2, manascrew g3. I almost got there in g3, but he had 6 countermagic that game (2 Envelop, 3 Pyroblast and a Force of Will))
Reanimator 2-1 (Thoughtseize prevented a 2nd Turn Kill in game2, and g3 I peeled SnT from the top to complement my Emrakul)
Elves 2-1 (In game 2 I thought that the Craterhoof Behemoth in his hand can't really kill me when I saw peeked with a Probe, but that 2nd Nettle Sentinel from the top kinda did everything for him with Heritage Druid and company).
3-3
---
10-5
Ended up heartbroken on place 106th. Prizes were only distributed among Top100, so I get 0$ due to tiebreakers. Anyway, just wanted to post my list for the record before this deck ceases to exist from next week on.
I understand what you're saying... don't get me wrong.. but I have this thing about drawing dead cards. It's pretty painful to draw Split Decision when not going off with Firemind's... Impulse at least can do something by itself where Split Decision cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barsoom
Split Decision can do some ridiculous things. In Lille I have witnessed Split Decision...:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky984
- ...copying DTT, either the own one or the opponent's DTT
- ...copying Reanimate, stealing that Griselbrand from the GY before the opponent got it
- ...copying an Entreat The Angels for 5 angels during extraturns, then the original copy got countered and the Miracles player was overrun by the angels
- ...copying Ancestral Visions, refueling the hand against BUG Agent
It also helps you to win some counter-wars, either copying the counterspell to counter back or in case of REBs copying the Show and Tell.
So that's that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
Since you are already running Black, how do you feel about Lim-Dul's Vault over Impulse/SD?
Went 11-3-1 at the GP with a black splash, which was good for 33rd place.
can you write the list? i'm really interested in a Black splashQuote:
Originally Posted by Nihilis
I didnt make day 2 at the gp.
But the lost here is good. Varius spanish players played it.
I lost to mud putting trinishpere into play and then helkting my omniscense with 11 mana.
Then to reanimator where I had the win with 2 dig 2 wish 3 counters when I show and telled t3 and he had the lone inona. And g3 vs him when I diged after a counterwar who lets me with dig and him with reanimate. And the dig showed only lands and preordain and the turn and preordain draw only gave lands.
Then to canadian stifling all my lands. But im still sure the list is really powerfull. And the mountain is a good evil. Also the pyromancer plan is not of my like when everyone knows it.
4 omni
4 dig
4 fow
4 bs
4 show
-20
4 ponder
4 preord
3 gp
3 wish
1 mountain
1 impulse
-16
2 pierce
2 fluster
2 emmy
-4
8 fetch
5 island
2 city
2 volcan
1 boseiju
-20
2 pyro
1 reb
2 sudden shock
2 pyroclasm
1 fluster
1 surgical
1 fireminds
1 eldamris call
1 wipe
1release ants
1 thou the breach
1 boseiju
My list in Milano was basically like the above one with 2 LDV instead of Split Decision and the Boseiju. LDV was sometimes smooth, and sometimes it made me tilt because you can't efford to fetch an Underground Sea against the Delver players that are sandbagging their Wastelands. I decided that it's better to not play cards in the MD that force you to fetch vulnerable mana. It can act as a Vampiric Tutor and thu also enables an instant-speed kill, which is neat, but as I said, there are matchups in which you don't want to fetch a U-Sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technics
i've been testing out a light black splash similar to that build but with Lim dul's vault in its place, and its pretty bonkers - it is a 100% guaranteed RtA kill off of Firemind's foresight, and is a little more proactive than split-decision, but i'm still not sold on which is better. I will say that LDV has tested well enough for me that i'm actually considering running 2 of them, whereas i never thought about that with twin/split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technics
It really throws ppl for a loop end on their turn 2 with Island+Fetch out -- fetch for Sea/Swamp depending on deck ur playing -cast LDV - find your missing combo piece and then GG. Everyones always like "oh lim-duls vault..uhmm..wait whats that do again *reads card* oh uh...ok resolves" you get Snt/Omni whatever and then yeah GG.
here's my list as of right now for the light black splash
4 Show and Tell
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Cunning Wish
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Preordain
4 Omniscience
2 Spell Pierce
1 Crystal Vein
4 Flooded Strand
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flusterstorm
1 City of Traitors
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
Been testing it all week and really diggin it, will let you know how tourney ends up on wednesday, i know people have drifted away from the leyline SB which i honestly did as well, but im glad to be back on it.
I played the following:
Main
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
3 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB:
2 Massacre
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Duress
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dig Through Time
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Rushing River
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Release the Ants
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
I played against:
R1 Dark Maverick (2-1)
R2 Belcher 2-0
R3 MUD 1-2
R4 Miracles 2-1
R5 Opponent did not show up
R6 Grixis Control 0-2
R7 Dredge 2-0
R8 Storm 2-1
R9 Miracles 2-0
R10 Shardless BUG 2-0
R11 Death & Taxes 2-0
R12 UR OmniTell 1-2
R13 Elves 2-1
R14 Grixis Control 2-1
R15 Maverick 0-0-1
So 11-3-1, good for 33rd place.
All in all a very amusing weekend, despite the exhausting weather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilis
congrats man! seems interesting that you went 0-2 against grixis and then 2-1, how did those rounds shake out? also were there any cards you werent digging in your list, or perhaps any matchups you felt wouldve been sured up with leylines in the board?
Thank you! :)
I was slightly out of the tournament during round 6 (half asleep after the round 5 no show and lack of sleep due to the heat), so I played some very poor games of magic. Luckily I managed to wake up and still make day 2.
The matchup is really rough though, as Cabal Therapy just wrecks you. It's best to just not have the combo (or at least nog S&T) in hand when they cast this. If combined with a creature, things go downhill very fast. For the rest, it plays out like against Miracles. Trade resources with your discard, find an opening, win the counter war (boseiju is great against the control variants) and spaghetti their face.
The list was a result of several months worth of testing, so I'm very happy about how it currently looks. I don't really like the Leylines, as I feel they make the deck less consistent than it would otherwise be, not to mention it takes up 4 spaces in an already very tight sideboard (due to Cunning Wish). If your meta contains a lot of discard, I could see putting it in the sideboard, but for an open tournament like this I did not feel they were needed (not even against grixis).
So you're saying it still needs help from something else and can't function by itself... Which is the point I'm making. Got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
Split Decision, by definition, has a huge variance.
a huge variance card as a 1x (which is also a finisher during the combo) is not a bad idea.
I use LD Vault, instead. I way prefer the Ub version with Massacre and Thoughtseize. We'd just need something serious against Counterbalance. May be Swan Song?
Wipe away kinda poops on Counterbalance. That's what I use.
My problem with Lim Dul's is that it sucks to draw when not going off with Firemind's. Sure you can guarantee your next draw and that's good... but it doesn't get you a card right there on the spot so it felt a little clunky drawing it or having it in my opener.
When you get it with Firemind's though... It's pretty much a guaranteed win which is awesome.
that's why i play 2 MD and 1 SB.
1 for combo, one for random goodness.
the one in the SB is as good as Intuition if you want to see 1 exact card
Wype Away relates on Cunning Wish which needs Boseiju not ti be an hazard..