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Possibly, but Fire and Ice lets you both punch through TNN as well as control the board or finish the game quicker. Plus, getting those extra card draws are really nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Maybe even think about going with one in the Main and the other in the Side. If you expect Lightning Bolts, Main Fire and Ice, but if you expect Swords, Main Light and Shadow.
Yeah the swords are also good equipment as well as Jittes, I also thought about replacing one of my jittes for a sword.
After play testing though last night I realised the deck needs some more speed and a bit more removal. Many games were close, but the deck needs to explode a bit quicker out of the blocks. I'm therefore gonna add some chrome moxes and lotus petals to see how it works out. My adapted list is going to be the same sideboard as before.
I dropped 1 dismember due to damage from dark confidants and thoughtseize, plus i can accellerate more easily into hero's downfall and now deal with jace the mindsculptor. I've kept go for the throat as i needed removal, and lowered my disruption and dropped inquisition of kozilek. I shall see how it performs next wednesday at the local club!
It was fun however dropping Master of the Feast!!! But maybe Gatekeeper could contend for this slot, although the big fattie is the fun part of the deck!
3 chrome mox
2 lotus petal
4 dark ritual
4 thoughtseize
2 dismember
4 hymn to tourach
4 dark confidant
2 nantuko shade
3 stromgald crusader
2 go for the throat
3 jitte
3 hero's downfall
2 liliana of the veil
4 master of the feast
4 wasteland
14 swamp
When the new block rotates in, I'm hoping some new cards will be introduced that might return suicide to tier 1, keeping my fingers crossed for mono black.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk 2
with Waste Not coming in m15, we can pursue a more heavy discard plan and just rip opponents hands all day long :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jo11ygrnreefer
what are your thoughts
deleted
This is something I like to call Deadguy Depths. It's similar to Pikula's version long ago with obviously newer cards. But not bothering to post on the Deadguy thread as most there feel the deck should be mostly white. Definitely I see suicide splashing in the future. Herald of Torment definitely adds something. I have not tried Master of the Feast as I'm leery of giving my opponents options.
Deadguy Depths
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TE] Cursed Scroll
SB: 4 [AP] Vindicate
SB: 3 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 4 [BNG] Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 2 [ZEN] Marsh Casualties
// Main Deck
// Lands
4 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [CS] Dark Depths
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [JGC] Wasteland
3 [R] Scrubland
2 [M11] Swamp (1)
1 [9E] Plains (1)
// Creatures
4 [BNG] Herald of Torment
4 [4E] Hypnotic Specter
4 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [JGC] Dark Confidant
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
// Spells
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
2 [TE] Cursed Scroll
Will let people know when I have some tournament results, but Depths adds a lot to the deck. Feels like Hatred back in the day.
Peace.
Necrowil
I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.” —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
If you're going to splash a color in Suicide Black, that color absolutely should be green IMO.
Green adds so much to the deck. This is the list I play with and I love it...
Deck Name: Su Black
// Lands (22)
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest
// Creatures (17)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells (21)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Yes it doesn't play Dark Ritual. I used to but Deathrite Shaman provides adequate acceleration that Dark Ritual ended up being a dead card too often (not to mention an awful topdeck).
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm still debating Sylvan Library vs. Sensei's Divining Top so if you think one is better than the other for this deck, I would love to hear your input.
Library is free to use, but can't be saved when you use Deed. I would go for SDT just because of this: you really need some kind if card-filtering, otherwise you'll get bad topdecks.
Just my 2ct.
Here's something to think about:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/dtk/112.jpg
With all the life loss, shouldn't these decks be running Death's Shadow?
Is there any reason not to?
Quick Report from Bazar of Duals @ GP Legacy Lille on Sunday.
Here is the deck list I registered:
2 Marsh Flats
3 Badlands
3 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
7 Swamp
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Empty the Pits
4 Bile Blight
4 Dark Ritual
4 Soul Spike
2 Cruel Bargain
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Infernal Contract
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Spinning Darkness
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 2 Rakdos Charm
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
Round 1 vs Grixis -> 2/0
Round 2 vs Miracle -> 1/1
Round 3 vs Grixis -> 2/1
Round 4 vs BUG Delver -> 2/0
Round 5 vs Pernicious Jace Standstill -> 0/2
Round 6 vs Grixis Delver -> 2/1 (deck check, errors being made on fetchs G1 = loss)
Round 7 vs Miracle -> 0/2 (really really close G1, mana death G2)
Missed money by an inch...(4/2/1).
The deck was really a blast to play.
Congrats on the good showing! It's nice to see underrepresented decks still performing reasonably well at large events. It seems your build has some trouble with blue contol decks like Miracles. Are their card advantage engines too much for discard to keep up with?
I faced 2 miracle decks on this event (263 players).Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
1st Miracle
G1: He is facing a lethal strike with 4 zombie tokens. In response, Entreat for 4 angle tokens blocking mine. He has 2 cards in hands. I play bile blight on the angels, he fows pitching FOW (he saw the playset during the game...) That is his only out as he is tapped out for entreat. Could have been my greatest play EVER.
G2: I resolve a pyrostatic pilar T2 which is most likely game in 90 % case. It is. Period
G3: Mana Death (keep a 2 lander opening hand but never draw the third one). But I still play fast. The miracle player do not pay attention to the clock and he is unable to find Entreat to kill me before the end of the fifth additional turn.
2nd Miracle
G1: I am able to keep up under the countertop softlock because his curve @3 is really low and he is not able to counter my big draw spells.
Key turns: a gatekeeper sneaked through CB lock, Jace @ 3 on the table. I'm @ 3 life. He is @ 9. 4 swamps in play on my side.
1) Play Iok -> reveals a Force + CB + 1 terminus + 2 lands. I take the CB.
2) Attack Jace -> top + Entreat for 3 in response (full tap) -> all 3 angels block the gatekeeper -> bile blight. 2 angels + keeper are gone.
3) I still have 6 cards in hands among a spike, another draw 4, 2 other bile blight, 1 messenger, 1 Empty the pits and a decision to take knowing he still has a FOW in hand which he can hardcast next turn.
4) I choose to spike the Jace (pitching Messenger + Bile Blight) as my deck contains a lot of sac' effect for the angel and I can still buy a turn with the last Bile blight.
5) Go back to 7 life. EOT.
6) Draws top, plays land + top, attack with the angel for 4. Still has 6 mana opened + 3 cards in hand. End of his Turn.
7) Draw HTT. My only out here is to play HTT and pray to catch the FOW + Bile blight at his upkeep (most likely his next 3 tops cards are not wonderful) so that I would go down to 2 life and be able to draw 4 cards to find an out to the token.
8) Play HTT, opponent put the 3 cards down on the table. Throw a dice, a card is out. I'm about to throw the second roll and my opponent stopped me: "no need to throw another dice roll, I keep that one and lose the rest". Obviously he kept the FOW...Was I trolled ?
=> G2 :(
Thinking afterwards, I should have called a Judge. The guy was nice but still.
Thinking twice, the correct play here should have been to spike the token and try to take the aggro route with Messenger. At least I wouldn't have died to the angel.
G2: 11 cards in / 11 out.
1) I keep a one lander + ritual hand into Messenger + REB which could be enough to clock him until he is @ 8.
2) I play IoK on my T1 without drawing a land. He had no sword / no cantrip. I take a counterspell.
3) T2, no land, ritual into messenger /start praying.
4) T3, attack for 3, no sword/no cantrip, path is clear -> draw step terminus :(
Pretty lucky here. I then struggle for many many turns to get to 3 lands but he is already too far ahead for me to crawl back into the game.
I won't draw any hasty conclusions about the miracle MU with my deck.
Both rounds, I did not see a single "Slaughter Games".
I think the MU is 50/50 overall but we are speaking of the best deck in the Legacy format right ?
Question about your list:
- Why Bile Blight over, say, Victim of Night?
- Why no Liliana of the Veil?
Bile BlightQuote:
Originally Posted by MGB
The initial list was playing "Geth's verdict" instead of "Bile Blight".
As the meta has shifted to token strategy, I had to adapt the list a bit.
Bile blight is underplayed in mono black decks and I do think that the card is underrated.
I have killed 2 flipped delver, killed a tarmogoyf blocked by a gatekeeper, reduced damages from angel's tokens and killed pyromancer's token + innocent blood the pyromancer itself in the same turn. I have also killed 2 Tarmo with 2 bile blights and used it once for a shenanigan when my messenger was targetted by a STP.
Bile Blight was MVP that day. Mostly because I was paired against decks where it really shines.
If you compare "Bile Blight" with "Victim of the Night", there are very few things in Legacy that does not die to Bile Blight (any x/4) and even then the main deck is already packing 8 sacrifice's effects (4 keeper, 4 IB).
Furthermore, as there is almost no strategy that mix big dudes with swarm, every most common use cases are covered up.
Liliana
MD is not "set in stone".
If you like the list, please test it, tweak it, and let's share experience or ideas.
The inital list was packing 4 lilianas. Because at first, I thought that having access to six "draw 4" would compensate her symmetrical effect.
I was wrong.
She might be one of the best PW that Legacy has access to, but in my shell I found her to be rather a liability than a true bomb (except against control).
Why ?
The main concept of this deck is to make good use of "Infernal Contract/ Curel Bargain" paired with "Soul Spike".
1) Her +1 is symmetric and we are not using any recurring tools (such as PF for example).
2) Even if late drawn discard spells could be discarded to her first ability, usually I'm more than happy to spare them for free Spike.
3) The mana curve @ 3 is really clogged and the mana base is really tight. Making adjustment here is really difficult without tweaking the whole deck.
So, all in all, she was often just a sacrifice effect for 3 mana...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Hey Ralf, I was doing a test stream to make sure everything is set up correctly on twitch and played your deck: http://www.twitch.tv/ill_intent/v/7304334
I had a good 2-1 game over Miracles even though I'm sure I made many mistakes. Do you have any tips? How do you sideboard versus delver decks, storm, miracles, D & T/hatebear?
I'd love to do a lot of testing with the deck in order to fine tune it a bit more, once I learn to play it well of course.
I don't have a lot of time right now to go through all the MU. But I'll do it later.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
What you can keep in mind is that against tempo strategy you usually side out a few draw 4 and a spike for a spinning darkness and REB effect.
Against combo you side in pyrostatic pillar and Slaughter games + REB while cutting into spot removals.
Against fair decks you usually cut targetted discard + some dark ritual for additional removal/sweepers/anti arto
Thx for showing interest in the deck. May I suggest you try thoughtseize instead of inquisition of kozilek MD. I had a good argument with some friends about it. They believe it is better even if sometimes you'll die because of the 2 life loss
I like your list a lot @Ralf...have you tried a monoblack version of this deck before adding red stuff for SB?
Yes sir, as I told the list is not set in stone. I have added Red for GP reasons as we were expecting a lot of blue decks. Also because the miracle MU was very hard as mono black and we wanted to win games not to drawQuote:
Originally Posted by miccel
Thanks for your response :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
I've noticed the deck struggles a bit if overwhelmed with Young Pyromancer tokens or creatures in multiple in the early game - especially if we don't have Dark Ritual at the right times to catch up or if a crucial removal spell gets dazed/countered. I have been trying Grim Lavamancer as a 1 of or 2 of in the MD (or perhaps 1 MD 1 SB) to combat this. I am also trying Marsh Casualties as a 1-of in the main over a Bile Blight.
Have you tested Engineered Plague in the side, or Dread of Night? Permanent based SB hate is probably a little less desirable since it doesnt fill up our GY, but despite this I think these cards deserve a look. I just played against D & T and Grim Lavamancer cleaned up their board quite nicely. Perhaps Lavamancer would take up the Plague / Pyroclasm spots? I understand Lavamancer wouldn't be terrific in multiples (unless the first one eats removal spell) especially since it messes with the Empty the Pits finisher, but when Lavamancer maintains board control (stops them from playing their creatures) we can clean out their hand with discard and have more time to get to 4 mana and fill up the GY for E.T.P delve. Lavamancer is also good for shrinking Goyfs in the early game and can keep them in Bile Blight range - or you can ping the Goyf for 2 then follow up with B.B.
I do think 1 sweeper would be nice in the main. Toxic Deluge, Drown in Sorrow, Marsh Casualties, something along these lines. Hell, perhaps even Electrickery. Tokens / lots of x/1s screw up the edict plan as they allow opponent to sacrifice their worthless creatures to keep their beefy Goyfs or Tasigurs swinging. Big Game Hunter seems like a nice answer to Goyf / Tasigur as well but I don't think BGH deserves a spot in the main since so many decks run creatures with only less than 4 power. The Madness feature isn't irrelevant because often if I get off an early Draw 4 I have to discard 1.