you never know, there could be an ema2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
which probably means that there will never be a foil REB :(Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
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you never know, there could be an ema2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
which probably means that there will never be a foil REB :(Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
We have those deep, dark Beta REBs to play with. Who needs foil?
Conspiracy 2 is the next chance pre EM2. But I like how the pyro last silver lining was pointed out.
So, the full spoiler was released - and no Imperial Recruiter. Somehow or another, I am happy with this.
Get to foil out Pyroblast and Pyrokinesis now. Hope that other art Grindstone gets actually made one day :frown:
Was worried about that too, so maybe it's due for a reprint in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
so, i'm going to my first legacy weekly tonight. no sideboard ready so i'm a bit fucked regardless of the decks i'm playing against lol. any good tutorials out there for the beginners of the deck? (i.e. good hand keeps, when to mulligan etc?)
if you get the hand to play t1 moon effect, do you just keep the hand?
Hi !Quote:
Originally Posted by amjw
First, you must read the 2nd message in the first page of the thread, if you didn't already : http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...perial-Painter
This page provide you tips with the rulings of the key cards in the deck + some overview of how thinking as a painter player in various match-ups.
For the hands to keep :
2 lands at least, with a red one minimum. => exeptions for (1) T1 blood moon with sol land + any mana accelerator (even blind, with no idea of the deck of the opponent) (2) for 1 red mana + deck manipulation like sensei top after a muligan (3) 2 sol lands + the grind/painter combo in hand
A classic good hand to keep you will often get with the deck is mountain/sol land/fetch/top/grindstone/pyroblast/pyroblast -> pretty good hand here since you got half of the combo, lands, blasts, and deck manipulation. A hand with a lot of deck manipulation and without the combo is good too if you are on the play. ex : t1 plateau, if no need to reb => end step opponent enlightened tutor into blood moon or painter.
The hardest thing with this deck is to know how to better use the goblin welder and when to play the combo. In general, it is better to play the grindstone first if you are vs a non-combo deck. Put the painter in play however is crucial vs combo decks (to REB an infernal tutor vs storm for exemple...)
No video tutorial in stock, sorry.
went 0-3-0, didn't win a single match and then had to go home, as expected tbh as a newbie against decent players and no sideboard.
game 1 - twin
blood moon did no work, since he plays with them too. if i had a sideboard i probably would have sided them out for rest in peace so vryn's prodigy couldn't flip, but oh well.
g2 i had 2 ensnaring bridges in play which did a lot of work and he couldn't combo off until he drew a card that destroys target artifact with replicate cost R (don't remember what it was called). he combo'd off right after that.
game 2 - BUG delver
game 1 deathrite shaman was a killer for me.
game 2 - 2 6/7 goyfs on the field with lethal damage next turn. i had the combo in play with 3 mana untapped but still decided to play ensnaring bridge instead of comboing off since i thought she might have had a stifle to use against grindstone, which was a stupid mistake really since she had already played one and there are more general counters in her deck than stifle. she said i would have won if i just combo'd off.
game 3 - ad nauseum storm
not really much to say about these games. was a pretty good deck. i probably should have blasted the ponders/brainstorm he was using but i didn't even know the deck he was playing tbh.
all in all - was a good experience and i'll definitely be giving this deck another shot once i learn the ins and outs of it.
Hi all. Been a little while since I've posted. I'm doing these in reverse order...
@amjw: Yeah, you probably don't want to play this deck without a sideboard. Some decks can sometimes get away with it (eg Dredge); but this one really needs some extra cards to shore up certain match-ups. There are also times when some main deck cards are just bad (eg blood moons against burn or landless dredge/oops). Also, don't get discouraged. I specifically remember when I first put this deck together and went to my first tournament with it...the exact same thing happened to me. This is a deck that definitely needs to be driven around the block a few times.
@Moomba: YES! Very excited for foil pyroblasts and pyrokinesis as well.
@Mapson: so I am currently running two lists online right now and trying to decide which one I like better. One is a more traditional R/W list (although I am still running an artifact heavy list with one copy of Ghirapur Aether Grid in both). The other list has a black splash and is a little more spicy. For some reason Omnitell seems to be making a big comeback both locally and online. Thus, I have been playing this list more and have honestly been having more success with it in general. I'm really not sure which of these I would take to a paper tourney right now.
Anyway, here is the R/W/B list I have been running:
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
3 [MR] Great Furnace
3 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [B] Plateau
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [U] Badlands
1 [UG] Plains
2 [UG] Mountain
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
2 [UL] Goblin Welder
1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
1 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
4 [IA] Pyroblast
4 [CH] Blood Moon
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
2 [TE] Lotus Petal
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
1 [ORI] Ghirapur AEther Grid
2 [DTK] Kolaghan's Command
1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 2 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 [C14] Containment Priest
SB: 1 [DDH] Ajani Vengeant
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [LG] Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 2 [RTR] Slaughter Games
SB: 1 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 [SOI] Nahiri, the Harbinger
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [OD] Sphere of Law
I would kinda like to get a third lotus petal and magus into the main just for the turn 1 moon. I was actually playing 3 blood moon and 1 magus main for a while which wasn't bad either. If I start seeing a lot of lightning bolts though I tend to move him out of the main. In my R/W list I play 2 Nahiri with 3 RiP and a Helm in the board. I have really been thinking of changing the ajani to nahiri in this list though and trying an emrakul SB. There have been several games now where that would have just won on the spot. It's so easy to get Nahiri to 8 loyalty and then I don't feel like I am always able to take full advantage of her ultimate. an Emrakul would also be great in the mirror but I realize it's obviously bad with a bridge out. I haven't really gotten a chance to use ajani much but I've played Nahiri a few times and really like her.
Haven't got the chance to play nahiri in here yet. Is the consensus that she's better than daretti?
I never got a chance to test out daretti but as for nahiri she is very proactive in helping you win the game. All 3 of her abilities are very relevant in our deck. Her ultimate can get you a lot of value by finding either the combo or serve as a pseudo e-tutor/recruiter that gives double value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
Are you Ultimating her right away or ticking her up past for her to stick around afterwards? Wondering if it's an ult that you reach and just slam its effect into play.
This is probably not the answer that you are looking for but it depends on the situation, I think in most empty board states you can just wait so she survives to get more value out of her. In my recent game against aggro loam I thought that it would just be better to get a pia and kiran and make a bunch of dudes to kill my opponent with since he was at 6 life rather than go for a longer line of trying to combo out. Also he had a large knight and a bob out so I figured she she was not going to survive my opponents turn anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
I've also had a game against eldrazi where my opponent was not really doing anything and I waited before ultimating her for the kill.
Yeah, I agree. It depends on the game state. If Nahiri isn't at risk then I will keep ticking her up. A lot of times though you are up against a clock and just need to go for it. Pai and Kiran is not a bad idea as a target. I really with there was a charbelcher type artifact to get that would just win is the game on the spot without needing to be part of a combo. This is why Emrakul is so good but again obviously not the best option for our deck.
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Hey Y'all,
I'm relatively new to Painter, but I had some ideas about the deck that I was looking to bounce off some people.
I'm still figuring out my sideboarding(in a standard Strawberry Shortcake list), but it seems like it we have a package for decks which the combo doesn't work against (Ajani Vengeant/Koth), and a package to bring in against burn (Sphere of Law). The idea I'm playing around with is trying to combine these slots.
Does a Stoneforge package in the sideboard make sense? Sword of Fire and Ice is a nombo with Painter, so I was thinking of trying to just have 1 SFM, 1 Jitte and 1 Batterskull over 2 Ajani Vengeant and 1 Sphere of Law.
The idea is that Recruiter can grab a Stoneforge, and this deck runs a bunch of small creatures that become much more threatening if they can carry a Jitte. Jitte and Batterskull can both be game winning against Burn, and seem like they could improve our Death and Taxes/Elves matchup. The obvious weakness to me is how slow Recruiter/SFM is, and that it doesn't make the deck any stronger against artifact removal.
Has anyone tested a setup like this? I was thinking of a least throwing Jitte in as an Enlightened Tutor target.
Thanks,
WW
Yes I think some have done the SFM package but at 1 SFM and 2 equipment it's usually not worth it. The ajani's are good for control and threat, plus the Sphere is very good versus most burn and even U/R delver surprisingly. if you really want the equipment package I think SFM would need to be at least a 2 maybe 3 of. Playing it on turn 4/5 isn't going to give you the advantage I think your looking for. Most cases it'll be turn 6 before Bskull/jitte is in play. And attacking. (Rough estimation.)
Stoneforge is strong, but I believe this is not the deck to run it in. Shortcake is at the core combo, but also play some prison elements to lock out opponents until we find our pieces. The only thing a stoneforge-package gives is a slow tutor for a control element that isn't reliable enough. They could always kill of the attacking creature with Jitte, and you'll be spending a lot of time doing nothing of what the deck wants to do. Maybe there's a more control-ish version that could work with this approach tho, but not Jack's shortcake.
Burn is discussed a lot, I believe that the way to beat them is to either pack some sort of prison element like Sphere and hope you'll land it early, or drop the sideboard slots and hope for an explosive hand. I prefer the latter as you'll get slots to improve other matchups, and burn is such a rare deck on paper nowadays.
Death'n'Taxes is in my experience, not that hard to beat for us. We also got some decent sideboard options that I think everyone packs in some degree anyway.
Yes indeed to the other replies. Look at pages 97-100 and several other areas in the forum. Stoneforge package has been mentioned many times but it just doesn't work well. It's quite terrible against burn because they either kill your creatures before they hit, or they smash your equipment and you take 3. Not to mention batterskull is just too slow. I actually thought batterskull was descent for the miracles matchup. I also used to play with sword of war and peace which I thought was pretty good against burn and as a fast clock, but still under-performed.
I'm also trying to put a value on Jaya. She obviously has generally good synergy with the deck and the opponent always goes out of their way to deal with her right away, but is she worth it? It's always the first card I side out because it's so fragile. And as far as I can tell, the only match-up where she truly shines is 12 post (and maybe lands, but lands just burns her out right away). can someone convince me that she is still worth a slot? And if so, sideboard at best? And yes, I know that it is a potential answer to chalice of the void, but how often has that really panned out?
And on another side note, what do people think of Mindslaver in the SB as a Nahiri target? Total trash? Seems gimmicky but I really want to find some card besides emrakul that combos well with Nahiri.
Personally I think that the fact that you have a creature they have to deal with, makes them have less spot removal for painter... If she sticks without a painter, that usually means 'face time' and a damage game with the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
I agree that she comes out a lot, but I wouldn't take her out of the deck :)
I replaced her with a Nahiri and haven't looked back. Both game winning, both synergistic, one less fragile than the other.
I do miss Jaya though
That seems like a reasonable move but do you have an answer for chalice on 1? I know our odds of winning game 1 when the opponent gets a turn1 chalice on 1 greatly decreases, but I have definitely broken out of it with Jaya and a painter on blue on a few occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I guess his out becomes ulting Nahiri and combo out immediately. I think your right in that this would be much harder than jaya but the Utility Nahiri provides in not being a creature is useful. Might need to get a few others testing the change to see if it's just better or will be a preference.
Yeah i do, main deck manic Vandal :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
I'm doing a main-deck Manic Vandal.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I know I'm a bit late for this since someone asked pages ago, I'll be making my way to GP Columbus; who else is coming?
Also, I just really can't imagine taking out Jaya.
One of my favorite aspects about Jaya is that she can proactively help you from a bad boardstate if she is not answered quickly, I don't think that Nahiri does this well enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
If you don't mind sharing would you mind posting your current list? Is Jaya still in the 75? What matchups do you end up boarding out the Nahiri if at all? My baseline so far has been if they have some big threat that hinders our gameplan i.e. chalice or counterbalance i'll bring her in. I think there are some situations against decks like d&t where you might also want her but that can also get kind of tricky with revokers and sideboard cards that d&t brings in.
My only gripe with the RW planeswalkers is that it doesn't feel like we have enough white sources to cast them consistently. Maybe it's just a result of bad draws/me playing poorly but there have been a lot of instances where I have been unable to cast her because I have a moon out and was either unable to find or previously used my petals for something else or I stumbled on my mana a little. Do you guys feel the same way? I feel like I want to up my plateau count to 3 and lotus petal count to 4 from the regular 2/3 to support them.
My main deck is pretty much like Jacks, same ratios of cards. In my flex spots I have manic vandal, nahiri, revoker. My sideboard is where I make big changes:
4 lightning bolt
1 plains
1 burrenton forge tender
1 worship
2 containment priest
1 canonist
2 rip
1 helm
1 3ball
1 EE
I'll add my fetchlands are 4 Mesa and one other red one that i side out for the plains. It's geared to take advantage of chalice and creature decks. As of late there's a lot of decks in my area that beat down to win, think delver, eldrazi, and dnt. Lightning bolt is something I'll try out next time. Partly because mine are beta.
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Rocking Painter at the GP. See everyone there!
Good luck to all fellow painters, may variance be on your side
I have been discussing this with a lot of people in the past 24 hours on if boarding in thorn of amethyst or trinisphere is correct against grixis delver to contain young pyromancer. I want to get your guys opinion's. I know it depends slightly on the list. We were also wondering, if I keep in ensnaring bridge, do I shave a REB or two because they don't play that many blue spells and sometimes it rots in your hand while they attack you with pyromancer tokens that would otherwise have to stay back. For reference I'll post the list I registered. (Not sure if I like the Emrakul or not.)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
2x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Goblin Welder
1x Great Furnace
4x Grindstone
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2x Lotus Petal
1x Magus of the Moon
4x Mountain
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
4x Painter's Servant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Plateau
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Wooded Foothills
---
1x Duergar Hedge-Mage
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Rest in Peace
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Trinisphere
Current board plan:
-2 enlightened tutor
-1 magus of the moon
-1 jaya ballard, task mage
-1 Nahiri, the harbinger
-1 phyrexian revoker
-1 Red Elemental Blast
+4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Pyrokineses
+1 Ensnaring Bridge
+1 Ratchet Bomb
So far I've seen 7 people playing painter. 2 are with blue though
I personally just played against grixis and Jaya was a star. If she eats a lightning bolt, you saved your painter, if she lives, everything they own dies. PM me your table number next round and we can talk painter.
I counted about 6 non blue painters but very few I think 2 were near the high tables (X-2) as of round 7
6/3
Wins:
Infect 2/1
Grixis Delver 2/0
D&T 2/1
Lands 2/0
Miracles 2/0
Esper Stoneblade 2/0
Losses:
Miracles 0/2
Miracles 0/2
Nic Fit 0/2
Overall happy with the list, and Miracles is a pain of a match up when they keep going T1 Top, T2 Balance with FoW back up. Nic Fit just ruined me with Therapy, Abrupt Decay, and Prenacious Deed. I wish I could have played Eldrazi every round :(
Im also 6/3, I'll post more about it later.
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Also squeaked in but did awful on day 2. Still ended positive but not pleased. Deck felt great. Had to Mulligan a lot of no landers. A few only city of traitors hands too.
The deck top 16d in Prague
Hmm, day two break down said there weren't any painters day two. Glad someone made it
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I dropped from the event very early because I was sick. I was happy to meet a few fellow Painters as well. Also there was a Sweet Mono Blue Painter running around I didnt get a chance to talk to the guy though.
Grand prix Prague had one painter in the top 16.
Two stand outs are the fiery confluence and sudden shock in the sideboard.
Creatura (16)
3 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Simian Spirit Guide
Istantaneo (8)
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Enlightened Tutor
Artefatto (14)
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Lotus Petal
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Great Furnace
Incantesimo (4)
4 Blood Moon
Terra (18)
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
3 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
60 Carte
Sideboard (15)
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
3 Sudden Shock
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Koth of the Hammer
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Anyone want to explain the subtle angles of fiery confluence to me? What are we hedging against here?
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