[Deck] Imperial Painter

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Originally Posted by oliverpool

I played with tin fins many times. This is the first time I seen this version though. They cast entomb for a emurakul then before the shuffle effects goes off, he cast goryo's vengence to get it into play for one turn with haste.

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I think all versions of Tin Fins use Goryo's Vengeance with Emrakul

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Originally Posted by oliverpool

I played with tin fins many times. This is the first time I seen this version though. They cast entomb for a emurakul then before the shuffle effects goes off, he cast goryo's vengence to get it into play for one turn with haste. I guess there are quite a number of different reanimators decks around that I never saw the one with emurakul till now. Why is it called tin fins?

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I think it is really rare to see this happen because they only run one Emmy.

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

I think it is really rare to see this happen because they only run one Emmy.

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The number of Emmys in the list has nothing to do with how often they can do the described play (Entomb for Emmy, Goryo it)...

I was just thinking. Would you think playing Manamorphose would make sense? Its a cantrip so thins the deck a little plus it can give you white mana if you do not already have a plateau or lotus petal. I understand that for IP there is little else we can cut to include in Manamorphose. Just a thought though.

What would you cut for it? Also what does it honestly gain?


To answer the earlier question, Tin Fins is named after a Sea Lab episode.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

What would you cut for it? Also what does it honestly gain?


To answer the earlier question, Tin Fins is named after a Sea Lab episode.

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What do you think about Martyr of Ashes?

Good card, I use to use it before Delver became a big issue locally. Now I am playing the R/W build though and the Artifact count has increased, not so useful any more. But Mono Red, it can win you games.

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Originally Posted by oliverpool

I was just thinking. Would you think playing Manamorphose would make sense? Its a cantrip so thins the deck a little plus it can give you white mana if you do not already have a plateau or lotus petal. I understand that for IP there is little else we can cut to include in Manamorphose. Just a thought though.

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Petal gives you white mana and a better chance at a T1 Moon effect. Manamorphose can help you get through your deck, but nothing more.

Additionally, we are pressed for space as it is. This seems liek an empty slot to me.

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Originally Posted by cab0747

Petal gives you white mana and a better chance at a T1 Moon effect. Manamorphose can help you get through your deck, but nothing more.

Additionally, we are pressed for space as it is. This seems liek an empty slot to me.

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Agree that petal still makes more sense as it can be left on board to let the opponent think you have a blast in hand. Its also a artifact for the welder. The only card that I can see Manamorphose fitting in is the lotus petal slot. But ya petal probably is still much better.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

Barring any last minute issues, I'll be hopping back on the stream game tonight after a long hiatus. List I'll run is the same as it has been for a month or two now. Found in the white splash post. 730 et slot.

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Not able to join in live but just watched the first recording. Love your optimism! Simian Simian and haaa... Got to learn that trick someday...

It is a shame: There are a lot of cards I think we would like to add, but just do not have the space for. I have been dying to MD Koth, but it is tough to justify cutting anything. Especially in the Rw version.

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Originally Posted by drude1

Yeah, I played with one stoneforge and one jitte main and one batterskull in the board. It would come against burn and miracles. It was good against burn if you could survive long enough to get it out. The nice thing is that they are constantly having to point their burn at jitte equipped creatures, the stoneforge or the batterskull instead of your face. It wasn't as good as I thought against miracles though so I ended up cutting it to fit the RIP/helm combo in against them. Helm has good splash effect against show and tell so I like it better. A few of the earlier players are still using the stoneforge package though I think, so maybe they can also comment on it.


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I thought I was stronger than Batterskull .. Interesting rip / helm! In what quantity? And in that mu put it in?



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Originally Posted by spector14

I thought I was stronger than Batterskull .. Interesting rip / helm! In what quantity? And in that mu put it in?



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Any matchup that you bring in RIP. Just an extra win con.


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And any matchup where they play Extirpate effects, RiP is also key in DRS/Eldrazi matchups.

So we can side in rip/helm against: eldrazi deck; bgx aggro control/ tempo, dredge, ecc.??


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Originally Posted by spector14

So we can side in rip/helm against: eldrazi deck; bgx aggro control/ tempo, dredge, ecc.??


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Yes, all of those plus I side it in against Miracles as it's a more difficult combo for them to deal with and more Miracles players have 1-2 copies of snapcaster these days. Helm is also very good at milling their deck even without the RIP out.
I'm still really having trouble with the Miracles matchup though. I played against it in the daily last night and if they get down the early counterbalance it's really hard. My secret tech of word of seizing definitely helps and in the second game I had a top out and bet I looked at 15 cards without seeing one (of 2), which would have won me the game against an ultimate Jace. Still, does anyone have total confidence in their Miracles matchup and, if so, how? The problem is, this is such a prevalent deck right now that if the matchup is that bad then it's not even worth bringing this deck to a real tourney. My only hope is that 12-post gets really popular to kill miracles and then we can prey on them.

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Originally Posted by drude1

Yes, all of those plus I side it in against Miracles as it's a more difficult combo for them to deal with and more Miracles players have 1-2 copies of snapcaster these days. Helm is also very good at milling their deck even without the RIP out.
I'm still really having trouble with the Miracles matchup though. I played against it in the daily last night and if they get down the early counterbalance it's really hard. My secret tech of word of seizing definitely helps and in the second game I had a top out and bet I looked at 15 cards without seeing one (of 2), which would have won me the game against an ultimate Jace. Still, does anyone have total confidence in their Miracles matchup and, if so, how? The problem is, this is such a prevalent deck right now that if the matchup is that bad then it's not even worth bringing this deck to a real tourney. My only hope is that 12-post gets really popular to kill miracles and then we can prey on them.

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In my experience, the top/CB lock is pretty close to gg. However, I wouldn't say that Miracles is a bad match-up. It may not be in our favor, but I don't think it is bad enough to not bring Painter to a larger event.

The deck is real big on MTGO. While this is annoying, I do not think it will dominate the meta at a larger event like it does online. Even if a lot of people are on the Miracles bandwagon in November, I will still jam painter at GP NJ.

If the meta shifts, and becomes unfavorable for us, I may have to jam a TON of DnT or UWR delver just before the GP. Blahhhhhh, I hope burn doesn't pick up again!

Games against miracles are very skillful and full of interactions. Your grindstone can interact with the top of their library and this creates a lot of mindgames.

In general, i don't think the matchup is that bad. You have to be conscious that they have inevitability, so you can't durdle forever. A fast combo can get the job done sometimes. A fast moon sometimes annoys their manabase enough that you are able to win before they do relevant things. Other times it gets grindier and then you can try the beatdown mode with recruiter into recruiter that is decent against terminus. also ensnaring bridge can stop their angels but then you have to ensure that they don't land a jace. Don't miss any occasion to casually mill them with grindstone because there is the small possibility that the game goes very long and you naturally mill them. Obviously do whatever you can to prevent them from assembling top/counterbalance. Koth is very good against them but unfortunately he can't be tutored.... a singleton vexing shusher may help too.

Overall , you just mustn't play scaried. If i think about it , i could say that miracles is favored against every deck in the format (except maybe goblins or fring tier 2 decks ? ) , because they have answers to everything and inevitability in the long game. But like every pure control deck, they need to see their answers at the right time or they can randomly die. I could go as far as saying that if they don't see top they are a quite bad deck.... so don't have fear, look them straight in the eyes and make them have answers to everything you throw at them.

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Originally Posted by drude1

Yes, all of those plus I side it in against Miracles as it's a more difficult combo for them to deal with and more Miracles players have 1-2 copies of snapcaster these days. Helm is also very good at milling their deck even without the RIP out.
I'm still really having trouble with the Miracles matchup though. I played against it in the daily last night and if they get down the early counterbalance it's really hard. My secret tech of word of seizing definitely helps and in the second game I had a top out and bet I looked at 15 cards without seeing one (of 2), which would have won me the game against an ultimate Jace. Still, does anyone have total confidence in their Miracles matchup and, if so, how? The problem is, this is such a prevalent deck right now that if the matchup is that bad then it's not even worth bringing this deck to a real tourney. My only hope is that 12-post gets really popular to kill miracles and then we can prey on them.

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Ahah thanks for the full and pretty answer! The right for This alternative combo is 3 rip and 1 helm or more? And when side in helm/rip goblin welder it's an automatically side out?


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I did some goldfish with the standard strawberry shortcake version with the idea to force a moon effects as soon as possible and here are the results.

First, the «methodology» :
- Every 7-hand with no possibility of turn 1-2 moon or combo is mulliganed.
- Every 6-hand with no possibility of turn 1-3 moon or combo is mulliganed.
- It is really goldfish and plays are not optimal. I just looked at the possibility of blood moon or magus as soon as possible even if it is dangerous (for example keep a hand with city of traitors, moon, guide and no other mana source)
- I did 50 simulation (I know it is not enough)

The results :
Moon turn 1 : 22%
Moon turn 2 : 50%
Moon turn 3 : 10%

Combo turn 2 : 4%
Combo turn 3 : 2%

Other : 12%

Some remarks.
I didn't look at dropping an early bridge, but in some matchup it can be a good idea too.
Combo turn 1 is possible but unlikely (combo, sol land, 4 guides/lotus)
I didn't keep track of possibility of moon turn 2/3 with backup instead of 1/2 without.
I didn't made the distinction moon/magus.

Hope it will be helpfull.