I have a question about the rules that should be relevant playing this deck: Do you need priority to tap lands for mana? So if I cast Reset do I need to put mana in pool before I pass priority or can I do it after?
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I have a question about the rules that should be relevant playing this deck: Do you need priority to tap lands for mana? So if I cast Reset do I need to put mana in pool before I pass priority or can I do it after?
Q: Player A plays Reset and passes priority to Player B. Player B passes priority and asks to resolve Reset. Can player A still tap lands before the effects of Reset happen, or can he only untap the two lands?Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
A: At this point it is too late to tap land for mana. Both players have passed priority without doing anything, so the Reset will resolve now. If Player A wanted to generate mana he would need to do so after playing Reset and before passing priority to Player B.
By the way, I think this should've been in the rules forum.
Ok, but why is this? I was under the impression mana abilities do not use the stack so you do not need priority for mana abilities. So do you need priority to do anything in the game even though you do not use the stack, for example if you want to unmorph a creature?
I understand this may not be the appropriate forum for this, but I thought this could be relevant for other people playing with Solidarity too and because this comes up when you play Solidarity I thought somebody from this thread would have the answer.
Because it is not relevant that mana does not use the stack (which is correct). Morph and Suspend also do not use the stack but will work somewhat similarily (check the comp rules for the exact details of all this if you'd like). However, you can not do anything unless you have priority. Once you've played your spell and passed priority you can not do anything until player B passes priority back to you. If you both pass with an empty stack you will not receive priority again until your spell (and any relevant state based effects) resolve.
Now I really shouln't be posting this (yet?), since the surprise factor is quite important. On the other hand, how many people will actually read what I have to say anyway?
I've been looking for a way to be able to beat Thresh and other aggro-control decks like CounterSlivers and Hanni Fish. This is what I came up with:
Hunting Pack
Instant, 5GG (7)
Storm.
Put a 4/4 green Cat Beast creature token into play.
Now let me explain. This card has multiple purposes. First of all you can use it as a kill instead of Brain Freeze. This requires some more mana, but less storm and less dependancy on draw spells. In the limited testing I did, even 2-3 tokens will often be enough to win the game, especially when your opponent isn't expecting it.
The second is way more inportant. Here too, it's a very big advantage if your opponent does not know about this card yet, but it's not that much of a deal when he already does. Basically, you use this card to kill your opponent's creatures. Wait until their declare attackers step and once he/she declared an attack with a couple of creatures, you simply play a High Tide/Reset or even a Turnabout and follow up with a Hunting Pack (we're assuming we're in a aggro-control matchup right now, so you should have about 5-6 lands in play.) It can obviously be done with less land and an additional untap spell/High Tide.
Now you'll most likely be able to block your (stunned) opponent's creatures to death and win like 2-3 turns later thanks to attacking.
Note how Hunting Pack allows a very easy way around Meddling Mage, since you won't need High Tide to be able to use Hunting Pack.
Now I'm posting this because I'm having trouble with how many of these to paly, and how to board. I'm using the standard list with 4 Opt and a Twincast in the mainboard. My boarding vs. Thresh so far has been this:
+2 Hunting Pack (leaving one in the board)
+2 Twincast
+1 Echoing Truth
-1 Brain Freeze (Since I have Hunting Pack now)
-1 Flash of Insight (Since I have 1 Brain Freeze less)
-1 Remand (Slightly worse without Brain Freeze)
-1 Meditate (Since my combo becomes less dependant on drawing cards)
-1 FoW (Since I usually find myself having a Wish left in my hand, which can now turn into a FoW for Stifle)
I'm also not sure how to use Hunting Pack in other matchups. I think it's probably a good idea to board them in for a game vs. Landstill, but no more than that, since they can board in their Explosives/Deeds again. Also, I've had some slight succes vs. aggro (like Goblins?) with it, destroying their whole board.
Please give me your opinion on this.
Very cool. It was a staple in Extended Heartbeat combo, incidentally, but I didn't expect it to work here as well. Tarmogoyf will thankfully be only a 3/4 in this matchup; unfortunately, after you kill one of their creatures, the next ones will be 4/5 and be able to block Beasts all day long.
Some questions:
1) How many Tropicals do you run?
2) Could this pair well with Bound//Determined? It seems they answer different problems.
3) +2 Hunting Pack (leaving one in the board). Does that mean you run 3 Packs?
Even if the Goyf would be 4/5 before the tokens arrive, I'd simply throw 2 tokens at him. You're right about the Goyf being 4/5 afterwards. But if it's blocking, it's not attacking right? It will give me a huge amout of time to refill my hand again and just make some more tokens/ cast a big enough Freeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
1) I run 2. I think 2 is definitely the right number. You have one back-up in the case one should get wasted. Also, you will need both if you're going to produce some tokens without an untapper. I've never had trouble getting my Trops.
2) I haven't tried that out yet actually. Bound//Determined is pretty good at biting counters, and if everything goed all right, you should have some more gas in your hand which allows you to cast a Hunting Pack afterwards anyway.
3) Yes, I run 3 at the moment. I've been thinking to go up to 4, so I'm sure I'll find one every game. It's just too sucky to find 2 in your hand....
EDIT:I'm not sure if it's working yet. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
The biggest problem with Determined is that it doesn't help against Counterbalance. It helps against blue based control, something relatively easy, and maybe the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Why shouldn't Determined help against Counterbalance? It says
As far as I remember, Counterbalance counters via a triggered ability. So it should kinda help, shouldn't it? :confused:Quote:
Determined (Bound/Determined)
Instant, GU (2)
Other spells you control can't be countered by spells or abilities this turn.
Draw a card.
Hunting Pack on the other hand is a great idea. :laugh: It is much better than Urza's Rage, since you can use it without comboing out normally. Compared with red, green offers better sideboard options, too.
I would like to suggest the following sideboard (without proper testing, though):
4 Krosan Grip (instead of 4 Wipe Away. As Meddling Mage is no longer a problem, we can focus on destroying Counterbalances, as well as Solitary Confinements)
3 Hunting Pack
1 Spell Snare (Take this, Hymn to Tourach! I'm currently playing 2 MD.)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild (Armageddon Stax is becoming more important in Germany.)
1 Brain Freeze (Winning with lethal damage on the stack is the coolest thing ever. Period.)
1 Meditate
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
Yeah, no Bound/Determined in the sideboard. It's too clunky in my opinion.
Determined cost two, the most common mana cost in Counterbalance decks. It also doesn't "draw" Counterbalance away like it does to counterspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimster
I don't think Spell Snare is for wishing. That's four mana to take out two mana.
So we can conclude that Bound/Determined sucks in the current meta, right? :laugh:
Seconded. It is obviously for boarding in against decks that are not hurt by Krosan Grip (like Deadgoyf Ale).Quote:
I don't think Spell Snare is for wishing. That's four mana to take out two mana.
Are both Chain of Vapor and Echoing Truth still necessary? I think one of them (probably the latter) can be cut, or at the least turned into Wipe Away against those Fish decks that still run Meddling Mage.
I recommend that you don't cut echoing truth. If belcher spits out it's hand to make 10-16 tokens, you're only hope is echoing truth. My board conisists of all 3, Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth and Wipe Away. If anything, I would cut CoV because often wishing for bounce means there's a chalice, normally at 1; making CoV fairly useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
I completely agree. Echoing Truth and Wipe Away are so much stronger that they're worth the extra mana commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by marit
Whats your current board looking like that you have to cut such an important bounce spell. Imho I wouldn't cut CoV for the world. Being able to third turn cunning wish into Fourth turn Bounce + combo is just too strong a play to give up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
i realy like the idea of hunting pack,though it would be a problem if an ee is already casted for 0(but then we still got freeze ofcourse)
let us know your testing results when youre done,i am looking forward to it:smile:
Anyways, who is going to play Engineered Explosives against Solidarity? The deck is flexible enough to play around such a dumb card. :laugh: Like ... Cunning Wish for either bounce, Krosan Grip or Brain Freeze?
I tested a lot during the day, mostly against UGw Threshold and Rwg Goblins (my parents, nonetheless quite good Magic players :eek:).
4/4 tokens are a house! Although a cc7 instant might seem very clunky, you can easily win through Meddling Mage, as well as counterspells. It's like Empty the Warrens in TES or Belcher - you don't need that much business spells for winning, just some acceleration.
My poorly tested sideboard looks like this:
4 Krosan Grip
3 Hunting Pack
1 Hydroblast (Helps against Goblins, as well as fast combo.)
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away (Wipe Away, Meddling Mage! Be free!)
Well, I played in a 65 tournament today with the green splash. I went 5-1-1 and ended at the 4th place. Some thoughts:
My sideboard was this:
3 Hunting Pack
3 Spell Snare
2 Twincast
1 Rebuild
1 Stroke
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Echoing Truth
1 Brain Freeze
1 Wipe Away
I'm not sure if the Wipe Away in the board is needed with the Hunting Packs. Really the only thing the card hits is Counterbalance, since Mage shouldn't be much of an issue anymore.
I'm also not sure on the Twincasts. I figured they'd do better than the Spell Snares in the Thresh matchup, but I've got no results yet to prove it. I did play MeatHooks today (I won 2-0) where I ended up producing 12 4/4 tokens and blocking all of his slivers & Mage.
My only loss wat to Dragon Stompy. I seriously hate that deck now, since it was also the deck I lost to at the Belgian Champs. Does anyone have any idea how to board vs. them?
very nice Bahamuth, you are my favorite dutchman :tongue:
Can you give us a more detailled report about the use of Hunting pack during the tourney?
Well, thing is, I only boarded them in in one match, which was the CounterSliver matchup. I eventually had to wish for a Hunting Pack tough, fighting trough a mage, a FoW and a Spell Snare, but it did work out.
Let's see, I used the Hunting pack as a kill a couple of times. The first was game 1 vs. Pikula, where I had enough mana available for Hunting Pack, giving me about 5 tokens i think.
The other situation was way more fun. My opponent did this: Turn 1 Toughtseize, Turn 2 Toughtseize, Turn 3 Chalice at one, Turn 4 Chalice at two. He then proceeds to do absolutely nothing relevant for like 8 turns (he couln't play Goyf/any beater). I eventually went Cunning Wish --> Turnabout, Opt (for storm), Cunning Wish --> Hunting Pack.
Once again, I did not relaly get the opportunity to test it out enough, but what I do know, is that it will highly increase your chance vs. CounterSlivers if your opponent doesn't know about it.
Please let me hear your opinions, and please tell me how you usually board vs. Dragon Stompy.