[Deck] Merfolk

Okay, Canonist may not be the best option. I merely suggested it as a possible sideboard card against combo. If I splash white I'll be sure to test it. Chant can be good too, but may be more narrow as it doesn't set a clock and requires you to keep a mana open. But both options are things that should be tested I think, because I still don't like the odds against Combo. In fact, the reason I'm taking an interest in the white splash is because next to improving the Aggro match-up, it can improve the Combo match-up. I think that's very interesting.

Meddling Mage is as good as Canonist against combo. Just name Chant if you have FoW in hand. If your opponent is low in life name Tendrils. If your opponent is high in life and if you don't have Force, then name Ad Nauseum. In any case, you've almost won.

Honestly I'd go with either cannonist or chalice. Chalice is more relevant in other matchups, as it hoses sligh decks when set to 1. Sure, there goes your vials, but if you can stop all their bolts, apes, nactals and the like, it's certainly good. So maybe chalice > canonist. I wouldn't do chant. To me that seems even more narrow, and as you said, doesn't beat. Generally, my take on combo is that you want something thats proactive, not reactive, with an aggro deck like this. Meddling also seems weak to me. Sure you can name chant, but then you had better have FoW in hand for when they go off. Canonist stops them all by its onesy while also slowing how quickly they can find answers (one cantrip per turn!)

Hello, I've been wondering. Have you guys considered the green splash versus the white one ? You guys could have nice addition to wall tarmo (tarmo), and an answer to Dreadnought with Kgrip.

Looked at the last 10 pages and didn't really find an answer. Anyway, was mainly looking of what would be the advantages cons of splashing green over the normal and the white splash version.

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Originally Posted by Guitar

Hello, I've been wondering. Have you guys considered the green splash versus the white one ? You guys could have nice addition to wall tarmo (tarmo), and an answer to Dreadnought with Kgrip.

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In my opinion, green doesn't have what this deck needs. In a meta filled with graveyard hate, wake thrasher is almost as good as goyf, albeit a bit slower. This deck doesn't need more beaters. In addition, if this deck wants to beat dreadnought, it's got echoing truth, and, even better, threads of disloyalty, not to mention its counter backup. White also gives you disenchant.

If you want to make an argument for green, tell me how it helps your combo and burn matchups. Here, white gives you options of canonist, meddling mage, and chant. Against aggro, it gives you STP. most importantly, against burn it gives you pro-red. Yes, Goyf is tempting, but it's about the only reason to splash green over white that I can think of, though I'm happy for a debate.

I have found that Misdirection is a decent ant-combo card. And I have it in there as an anti-red card.

It's pretty damned good against:

Orim's Chant (not Duress and not Silence)

and it is still useful against:

Pyroblast
Chain of Vapor and various forms of removal (I doubt we will see much of this w/out Canonist or Meddling Mage though)
Tendrils of Agony (though this is a pretty bad use)
Countermagic

So, the big targets (and the only ones I have had the chance to play it against) are:

Orim's Chant
Pyroblast

Given the importance of Orim's Chant for them, and the magnitude of the effect of reversing it, it may be worth a go. To be sure, it is not the best sb card here. The fact that I have it in there for an entirely different matchup is the reason I even bring it up.

EDIT: BTW, I think Canonist is a pretty bad choice. In addition to what has been said, it can mess up your own deck if the opponent is familiar with seeing it and plays smart.

Hmm, I hadn't considered Misdirection for chant, but you're right, it's gamebreaking, and while it is reactive, it's free reactive, so it's something I can get behind. The only question is do combo decks run silence instead? Seems like for their gameplan, silence is superior. It's untargetted! They probably won't be chanting with kicker.

Though you did forget one thing: thoughtsieze. This is target player rather than opponent. I'm assuming "choose" means that they do have to choose one of their own cards to discard...?

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Originally Posted by tivadar

If you want to make an argument for green

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Then I would say results- 5th at scg 5k and 1st at the Jupiter Games 40 duals. The lists were nearly identical and have the same pilot, but both tournaments were huge with tons of tier 1 decks piloted by some of the best legacy players in the community.

I think splashing is definitely the next evolutionary step for merfolk and I'd prefer it was white, but green offers some good options. Grip > disenchant, which has some nasty drawbacks (no split second, cc2:eek:) which are relevant because a lot of the scary artifacts run the countertop engine too. Tarmo is still probably better than sovereign, but I haven't had enough time to test and Nightmare says it's not, so I'm still working. StP is nice, but I wonder if it could give back too much tempo with lifegain from a large creature?

Originally I tried by making the manabase entirely nonbasic and using Tarmo/Grip/StP/Absolute Law in the same list. I kind of scrapped the idea, but it didn't really wasn't that bad except when its manabase was left alone. I should probably stick to just 1 splash, but I'm leaning toward green until Sovereign proves himself better than goyf (at least; then I need to see if disenchant can resolve enough for it to be worthwhile).

Tiv, I have never encountered Thoughtseize from an Ad Nauseum deck. I think the life loss is an issue. Anyway, it works of course. And they would have to reveal their hand to you and then choose one of their own cards to pitch. I just don't know how often you are going to see it.

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Originally Posted by IsThisACatInAHat?

Tarmo is still probably better than sovereign, but I haven't had enough time to test and Nightmare says it's not, so I'm still working.

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It's a question of context. I would never say that as a late-game top deck, Sovereign is better than Goyf - it isn't. However, Goyf doesn't really contribute much to the deck, or improve any of the other cards you're playing with. Sovereign is much better in this deck, based on synergy much more than raw power. Besides, in a significant number of games with this deck, Silvergill is bigger than goyf. 12 lords, people. 12.

Then the question is, if your intent is to cut Goyf, what benefit do you get from green? You're still getting Grip, but you need to decide if the Split-Second is enough reason to outweigh your potential gains from the other colors. STP aside, you get the same benefits from Disenchant (or, if the 2cc thing is an issue, you could run Dismantling Blow) as you do from Grip; plus you get Absolute Law, which is game breaking in your worst matchups. With Green, I had been testing Steely Resolve, but it still left you cold to Devastating Dreams or Firespout, which are both kicked in the dick by Law. So, in my opinion, STP or no, you still get far more value from the White splash than the Green - under the assumption that you're removing Goyf anyway. That argument is one I've made my mind up on, but you all may agree or disagree.

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Where are you pulling 15/15 thrasher from? I mean, that's a) kinda overkill, and b) nearly impossible to do.

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Well, Thrasher grows pretty fast. Especially in the mid-/lategame when you have some lords and done some reejerey untap action.
For a: It's kinda cute if you win the game with it and b)pretty cool if you actually can pull that off. Of course it's just toying, but it gives you smileys when it happens.

@ Thread: I like Nightmare's splash version but am afraid that it weakens you in the mirror due to being more vulnerable to stifle but I have to try that first before making an ultimate statement.
cheers.

Hello,
Its been awhile since i've played merfolk, and based on the current topic which is splashing color im just curious having seen STP on the SB slot, what do STP in the board actually do ?

I know STP sloves any creature threat but.., it also gives life to your opponent which i think is counter productive. Isn't that merfolk deck is supposed to played aggressivly. Having the moto of don't worry about your opponents threat, let them worry about yours...

Before merfolk sovereign came, pyroclasm, eng plauge and alike are problems but having 12 lord effects helps in that situation i used to like splashing white aswell especially when the meta is red heavy for absolute law and stp split with pte if im faced with burn ill go with stp faced with aggro pte.

Merfolk Sovereign is a very nice addition to the merfolk deck, i've also added 4 in my merfolk deck and ill be testing if ill cut wake thrasher or tidalwarrior.

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

I know STP sloves any creature threat but.., it also gives life to your opponent which i think is counter productive. Isn't that merfolk deck is supposed to played aggressivly. Having the moto of don't worry about your opponents threat, let them worry about yours...

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If you play the mana denial version with Stifles, the lifegain isn't that much of a problem. If you play the beatdown version with Wake Thrashers instead of Stifles, the land from Path to Exile isn't that much of a problem.

@Green splash: the only useful things you can get are Tarmogoyf and Krosan Grip. They're not really needed, we have better things for that. Ofcourse there are instances where a deck with green splash does well, but there are alot more instances where monoblue does well. The white splash with only white cards in the sideboard is a relative new idea, so it's worth testing.

@Misdirection: I don't like this card, just like FoW it's straight-up carddisadvantage. Only it's alot more narrow than FoW, and I'm already having troubles trying to keep a blue card in my hand for FoW, because usually I'd like to put them all on the table. As far as I can tell, Misdirection is only good against decks like Eva Green or The Rock. Misdirecting a Hymn to Tourach is the tech. But I think there are better things to use against these decks: Submerge, Jitte, Echoing Truth, Threads of Disloyalty and Relic of Progenitus. These are all alot less narrow than Misdirection, so I don't see a slot in the sideboard for that card.

Siding in a Misdirection versus combo seems like a bad plan to me: yes Misdirecting a Chant seems cool, but wouldn't you rather have a Chant yourself?

Has anyone playtested sleep, either maindeck or out of the board? It seems like it'd be a solid card against other aggro decks to effectively timewalk them and hopefully get enough damage through to win.

I'm debating running a few in my board and giving them a try. 4 mana is a little hefty, but it seems like a game-breaking spell if it resolves against zoo, goyf sligh, etc.

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Originally Posted by stuckpixel

Has anyone playtested sleep, either maindeck or out of the board? It seems like it'd be a solid card against other aggro decks to effectively timewalk them and hopefully get enough damage through to win.

I'm debating running a few in my board and giving them a try. 4 mana is a little hefty, but it seems like a game-breaking spell if it resolves against zoo, goyf sligh, etc.

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That's actually a rather interesting choice. It effectively timewalks them for 2 turns as well. You play it during their upkeep and it locks them out their next upkeep as well. The main issue I'd have with it is the cost at 4 mana...

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Originally Posted by tivadar

That's actually a rather interesting choice. It effectively timewalks them for 2 turns as well. You play it during their upkeep and it locks them out their next upkeep as well. The main issue I'd have with it is the cost at 4 mana...

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Unfortunately it is a Sorcery. Since you are on the topic of "tap creatures", there is also Turnabout and Ensnare

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Originally Posted by kabal

Unfortunately it is a Sorcery. Since you are on the topic of "tap creatures", there is also Turnabout and Ensnare

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Thanks, missed that. Hadn't seen the card before and when I looked it up I just assumed it was an instant. Still, it clears blockers for you for two turns, though only prevents them from attacking for one.

I would play Cryptic Command before playing Sleep. In Merfolk, :u::u::u: isn't that much of a problem.

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Originally Posted by Seb

I would play Cryptic Command before playing Sleep. In Merfolk, :u::u::u: isn't that much of a problem.

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I doubt that except you are playing without Wastelands and Mutavaults.

Ideally, you have enough damage on the board to either win in 2 attack phases, or at least come dangerously close.

Sleep in your pre-combat phase, attack, they take their turn with tapped creatures, then you can swing again.

I think I may just throw this in my board tonight and give it a whirl (if I see any aggro).