[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

On a different subject, lets assume you're playing Rb goblins against Know and Tell, you lost G1 to SnT> Omni> Grizzle T4.
You open a hand of Badlands, Port, 2x Mountain, MwM, Warchief and Cabal Therapy. (I'd keep that)

- Do you Cabal T1? if yes, what do you name?
I'm leaning towards naming Brainstorm, because it's a great card and can fuck up your flashback next turn. I'm also inclined to play it T1 blind, since you want to spend all your mana for the next 2 turns. What would you call?

- You play cabal, miss seeing Burning Wish, Ponder, Intuition, 3 lands (mull to 6). He draws, Ponder and pass. You draw Ringleader. What do you do? MWM into Cabal? If so, what do you name?
Thanks.

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The last time I played CT against a combo deck T1 I didn't name Brainstorm, and when I flashed CT abck T@ he brainstormed away the nameable cards. Sooo...

T1 CT name BS
T2 MWM flashback CT name Burning wish, just to cut him off of his T2 play. If he drew SnT off Ponder...
T3 Play Port, swing for 1. Port him in upkeep
T4 Play Port, swing for 2. Double Port him in upkeep.

If he didn't draw a SnT threat or a SnT off his Ponder...
T3 Play Port and Warchief, swing for 4, let him cast his Intuition.
T4 Play Port, double Port in upkeep, beat for 4 a turn for another turn or two, then swing for lethal.

Went to a small tournament last Sunday, with this (somewhat) generic mono-red list. I was expecting Dredge, UW Miracles, Mavs, Belcher, Snt variants.

13 Mountains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland

4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshall
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 SGC

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
2 Pithing Needle


Round 1 - Dredge
G1. I was on the play, Vial first. He plays Gemstone. I got in a couple of damages with MWM and took damage from an Ichorid. He fails to find dredgers for several turns until I built my horde for the win.
OUT: can't remember
IN: 2 Relics, 2 Crypts

G2: I had an opening hand with a Relic, a Lackey, a couple of Ringleaders and lands. He therapies my Ringleaders, and I play Lackey. He therapies my Relic, and I topdeck a Crypt. He Claims it, I took out his graveyard. He dredges but can't find anything relevant but Narcomoebas while goblins whittle away at his life.

1-0


Round 2 - Merfolk

G1: Early lords eat my face in 4 turns.
OUT: Sharpshooter, Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Krenko, 1 Stingscourger, another goblin
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis, 1 REB, 1 Pyroblast

G2: CLG. Mutavault, Vial. I waste his Mutavault and he fails to find anything relevant, and I end it scot-free.

G3: He plays a vial, and forces mine. He plays a Cursecatcher and dazes my Lackey. I can't remember how but I put in enough pressure and brought him down to 5. I was down to a Warchief. I played Krenko, and the funny thing was I made tokens. He lived for another turn due to my excellent math. The lesson I learned was, Krenko is 3/3, and can attack too.

2-0


Round 3 - Esperblade

G1: This was a long and grueling battle, he keeps fending off goblins with a Batterskull. I manage to resolve a Prospector for a turn, but gets STPed his turn. I Gempalm the germ, he plays a Jitte off a second SFM. I was keeping a Scrapper for this and paid his weight in gold, playing him through vial, blocking the equipped SFM at same time. He was slowly gaining back his life until I was building an army, until I Matron an Incinerator for the SCM with the Batterskull. He concedes.
The round took to time while we were sideboarding and he opted not to play game 2.

3-0


At this point there was a couple of undefeated players that I could've have matched with: among them UW Miracle and Hive Mind. I was hoping to dodge SnT. With my awfully good luck, I was matched with...

Round 4 - Hive Mind

G1: Show and Tell to Emrakul. Game Over.

I was thinking that the pacts could be countered with Chalice @ 0, so I sided those. I also had a mistake of not adding another Stinger in my SB so I had no choice for a sideboard except for the Chalice, which was a big mistake.

G2: I mulled to a hand with a Stinger and a Chalice, played it at 0, SnTs Hive Mind, plays the red Pact, and the copied spell laughs at the chalice while I lose without warming up my seat.

3-1


Round 5 - RUG Delver

The last round of swiss I was a bit confident with a matchup against a fair deck, so I went ahead and won G1 on the wings of Caverns. I sided out some goblins for 2 Pyrokinesis, 2 Relics and a Chalice.
G2 An early flipping delver cruises on top of my goblins, with 3/3 Mongeese. And then joined by a fat Goyf. Lost.
I was contemplating on replacing the pyrokinesis with the chalice. Decided against it. So I paid for it.
G3 Mongeese and flipping delvers again, and Stifle is the MVP. Killed the delver with Pyrokinesis, but apart from that, no sideboard appeared. Lost again.

Sadly, I dropped to 6th place, and the Top4 players decided not to play and share the loots.


What I learned.

-Skirk Prospector still shines.
-Tuktuk is effective, but a lot of investment is needed.
-KRENKO CAN ATTACK.
-SnT variants are unwinnable if you do just rely on Stingscourger. I am really hating this matchup for those who do not want to splash. I think I will try out Angel of Despair next time. Or X Thorns (for Hive Mind). Thinking of leaving a couple of Pyrokinesis out.

Thanks for reading. :)

Does anyone play a Vexing Shusher singleton for thier Matron's to fetch?

Considering Vials get around counter, could shusher be a way to get the O-ring (or other non-creature spells) into play and avoid counter?
I'm just curious whether it might be playable.

Thanks for the Report!

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Originally Posted by raindrainxi

G2: I had an opening hand with a Relic, a Lackey, a couple of Ringleaders and lands. He therapies my Ringleaders, and I play Lackey. He therapies my Relic, and I topdeck a Crypt. He Claims it, I took out his graveyard. He dredges but can't find anything relevant but Narcomoebas while goblins whittle away at his life.

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Would like everyone's opinion on this. Leading with Lackey instead of Relic, once the opponent knows your hand, is the right call? Don't know what I'd do... (But don't know why the opponent would Therapy Ringleader...)

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Originally Posted by raindrainxi

Round 2 - Merfolk

OUT: Sharpshooter, Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Krenko, 1 Stingscourger, another goblin
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis, 1 REB, 1 Pyroblast

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You don't like Shooter here? For me it makes combat math to be always on our favor, specially combined with Kinesis.
Also, you're not afraid of Jitte from them? At least around here they usually pack 2-3 of them, so I tend to leave Tuktuk in...

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Originally Posted by raindrainxi

Round 5 - RUG Delver

I was contemplating on replacing the pyrokinesis with the chalice. Decided against it. So I paid for it.

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How many of us are dying against Canadian to fast Delvers, where they Stifle your Gempalm and you just can't outrace it? I ask because maybe bringing in the ReB is right again, to kill it dead, or stop Stifle, that makes this MU quite worse.
Maybe in your build try bringing in ReB, Pyroblast, 2 Relic, 2 Kinesis, for Scrapper, Shooter, 2x Chieftain, 2x Piledriver?

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Originally Posted by raindrainxi

-SnT variants are unwinnable if you do just rely on Stingscourger. I am really hating this matchup for those who do not want to splash. I think I will try out Angel of Despair next time. Or X Thorns (for Hive Mind). Thinking of leaving a couple of Pyrokinesis out.

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You might be right about this MU being unwinnable. However, I find those decks highly inconsitent and my guess would be that you nee to nuke ther Brainstorms with REBs. If that's not possible, aim for their S&T.
I finde that Angel of Despair is a horrible SB tech against them. If you want to have this kind of S&T target for yourself you should either pick Confusion in the Ranks (which is slightly more likely to be castable :-D) or (what I find even better) Stingscourger. This boy does the same job as Angel or Despair with the benefit that (1) he's tutorable/net-able, (2) can be pitched via Vial (which is mouch more unlikely with Angel of Awfulness) and can be cast more eaily in other MUs, whch might give you the time to do so (like MUD or Reanimator).
I might be missing something, since Angelika has been discussed several times in this context - if so, please tell me what her benefits are in comparison to Stinger.

I keep hearing people discuss that Goblins is the best deck in the metagame right now, listing various reasons.

What are Goblin's vulnerabilities? It's able to go at least 50% against fair strategies, so does that mean it has trouble against unfair/Combo matchups only? Just trying to understand the Goblin perspective :)

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Originally Posted by Koby

I keep hearing people discuss that Goblins is the best deck in the metagame right now, listing various reasons.

What are Goblin's vulnerabilities? It's able to go at least 50% against fair strategies, so does that mean it has trouble against unfair/Combo matchups only? Just trying to understand the Goblin perspective :)

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Vulnerabilities = combo, anything fast Storm or SnT. OmniTell is rough just because we can't interact with it. Also, E Plague always sucks, as does Elsh Norn, Propaganda effects (dueling grounds). Sweepers aren't nearly as difficult as permanent based hate. Goblins can rebound well, but if they can't build a board presence they're screwed. Mostly goblins just loses to faster decks it can't interact with. Belcher SnT TES ANT

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

You might be right about this MU being unwinnable. However, I find those decks highly inconsitent and my guess would be that you nee to nuke ther Brainstorms with REBs. If that's not possible, aim for their S&T.
I finde that Angel of Despair is a horrible SB tech against them. If you want to have this kind of S&T target for yourself you should either pick Confusion in the Ranks (which is slightly more likely to be castable :-D) or (what I find even better) Stingscourger. This boy does the same job as Angel or Despair with the benefit that (1) he's tutorable/net-able, (2) can be pitched via Vial (which is mouch more unlikely with Angel of Awfulness) and can be cast more eaily in other MUs, whch might give you the time to do so (like MUD or Reanimator).
I might be missing something, since Angelika has been discussed several times in this context - if so, please tell me what her benefits are in comparison to Stinger.

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SNT is unfavorable but nowhere near unwinnable. Confusion in the Ranks is just as "bad" as Angel of Despair: both are super narrow SB cards. You're not supposed to cast them. It's a giant waste of mana. And no one is taking out SS to board these cards in, I don't know where you're getting that idea from.

"I might be missing something, since Angelika has been discussed several times in this context - if so, please tell me what her benefits are in comparison to Stinger."
Let's say Player A uses SnT and flips an Omniscience, and Player B flips a Stingscourger. Whelp, Player B wasted a Stingscourger. Now let's say Player B have a Vial @ 2, and you flipped a Matron to fetch for Stingscourger. In this scenario, Player B did not waste a Stingscourger, and can use it whenever. Now Player A casts Emrakul off of Omniscience and gains Time Walk. Even if Player B uses Vial to flash in Stingscourger, Player A can recast Emrakul and get Time Walk again, which is why Karakas is also not good vs. Omniscience. All this does is to delay our death. The problem is Omniscience, and Angel of Despair destroys it. Though, I guess CitR is a more hilarious solution.

For the Omniscience MU, I am running with 1 Stingscourger, 2 Krosan Grip, 3 REB, and 3 Angel of Despair. I am siding in eight cards for this MU.

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

SNT is unfavorable but nowhere near unwinnable. Confusion in the Ranks is just as "bad" as Angel of Despair: both are super narrow SB cards. You're not supposed to cast them. It's a giant waste of mana. And no one is taking out SS to board these cards in, I don't know where you're getting that idea from.

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I didn't mean that CitR should actually be cast (which should become clear when you read the ":-D" as: "...like that would ever happen...."). I said that it is just as narrow Angel of Despair with the "benefit" that you CAN cast it (which might be relevant in 1/100 games), whereas Angel of Despair is truly UNCASTABLE (in 1000/1000 games).

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...you should either pick Confusion in the Ranks (which is slightly more likely to be castable :-D)

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Neither did I say that anyone is taking out Stingscourger for narrow-sideboard-cards-of-your-choice. I literally said that if you want this kind of SB tech (one that profits from their S&T; one that can be put into play when they cast S&T) you are better of with Stingscourger than with those other cards, because Stinger actually has more than this (S&T) way to hit the floor (Vial, cast it) AND he is more likely to find the way to your hand when you need it (Matron, Ringleader). So my guess would be that you better put 3-4 Stinger in your SB than waste those slots for Angel/CitR.

Another benefit of Stingscourger in the OmniTell MU is his ETB trigger, which gives you a chance to REB or KGrip your opponent's Omniscience before they have a chance to cast any win conditions with it (though I'm assuming if you have REB you already would have cast it on SnT, but whatevs).

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Another benefit of Stingscourger in the OmniTell MU is his ETB trigger, which gives you a chance to REB or KGrip your opponent's Omniscience before they have a chance to cast any win conditions with it (though I'm assuming if you have REB you already would have cast it on SnT, but whatevs).

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Wow, this is awesome. So if you have Stingscourger + K.Grip on your hand, you have answers for Omnicience, Emrakul and Grizzlebrand. Nice.
Works with Matron/Ring/mwm/sgc for Omniscence too.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Wow, this is awesome. So if you have Stingscourger + K.Grip on your hand, you have answers for Omnicience, Emrakul and Grizzlebrand. Nice.
Works with Matron/Ring/mwm/sgc for Omniscence too.

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That hand + 2G open means you can't lose to SnT. Yup.

how likely is it to have that kind of hand when you need it? not likely. really not.

Just board in Angel and mulligan to whatever it takes (even to 3) to get him. then do nothing and wait till Show and Tel is cast. Use the Angel and destroy Grisel/Emrakul/Omni and attack 4 turns with the angel and win easily ;-) how often will that happen? if you are not afraid of hard mulligans: very likely :-)

I still like the idea of boarding in 1 Stingscourger, 2 Krosan Grip, 3 REB, and 3 Angel of Despair. Stingscourger takes care of Emrakul and Grizzlebrand off of SnT. REB handles SnT if not countered. Krosan Grip takes care of Omniscience if you flip something with an ETB ability. And Angel of Despair destroys them all. Just siding in three Angel of Despairs is not enough for me. Nor is just siding in Krosan Grips. Having eight SB cards and a Stingscourger MD is about right, and only Angel of Despair slot is wasted specifically for this MU. I gave up my anti-combo cards for Angel of Despair, which seems fair because I don't expect too many combo players in this current meta. I have not been fighting them anyways.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Would like everyone's opinion on this. Leading with Lackey instead of Relic, once the opponent knows your hand, is the right call? Don't know what I'd do... (But don't know why the opponent would Therapy Ringleader...)

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I couldn't really remember exactly if it was Ringleader or Warchief, what I am sure is though is that it wasn't Lackey. I think the correct strategy would have been to play the Relic. But at that moment I was kinda sure that he had artifact hate, and nothing relevant on the yard, so I went for Lackey.

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You don't like Shooter here? For me it makes combat math to be always on our favor, specially combined with Kinesis.
Also, you're not afraid of Jitte from them? At least around here they usually pack 2-3 of them, so I tend to leave Tuktuk in...

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I was thinking that while I was shuffling the shooter out, but failed to realize how awesome he was until the matches later. I thought that Prospector would be better here. (But I sided out Shooter which means I wasn't thinking straight here. I had sideboard notes but failed to read them)

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How many of us are dying against Canadian to fast Delvers, where they Stifle your Gempalm and you just can't outrace it? I ask because maybe bringing in the ReB is right again, to kill it dead, or stop Stifle, that makes this MU quite worse.
Maybe in your build try bringing in ReB, Pyroblast, 2 Relic, 2 Kinesis, for Scrapper, Shooter, 2x Chieftain, 2x Piledriver?

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I really am unimpressed with Pyrokinesis here, it can only kill delvers and thin goyfs. And most of the time if he has multiple flipped delvers you're dead already. Chalice at 1 stops at least 12 cards, and 2/3 of his creatures. But I agree, REBs are very right again, especially since its useful against a lot of other DTBs.

I wasn't really sold with the Bald Maria Ozawa angel but wanted to give her a try, but since she's useless against Hive Mind (which is piloted here by someone who is always in the T8 he might as well be a sub-boss) and with your apprehension I think I changed my mind. I'll keep in mind that ETB trigger on Stinger and REB response. Thanks for that. :)

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

I didn't mean that CitR should actually be cast (which should become clear when you read the ":-D" as: "...like that would ever happen...."). I said that it is just as narrow Angel of Despair with the "benefit" that you CAN cast it (which might be relevant in 1/100 games), whereas Angel of Despair is truly UNCASTABLE (in 1000/1000 games).

Neither did I say that anyone is taking out Stingscourger for narrow-sideboard-cards-of-your-choice. I literally said that if you want this kind of SB tech (one that profits from their S&T; one that can be put into play when they cast S&T) you are better of with Stingscourger than with those other cards, because Stinger actually has more than this (S&T) way to hit the floor (Vial, cast it) AND he is more likely to find the way to your hand when you need it (Matron, Ringleader). So my guess would be that you better put 3-4 Stinger in your SB than waste those slots for Angel/CitR.

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Except SS taking up 3+ slots is much worse than Angel of Despair which is more focused but also much more powerful in that matchup. No one is going to side in a bunch board in a bunch of SS anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Would like everyone's opinion on this. Leading with Lackey instead of Relic, once the opponent knows your hand, is the right call? Don't know what I'd do... (But don't know why the opponent would Therapy Ringleader...)

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I lead with Relic every time game 2/3 vs. dredge/reanimator. There's no real reason to hold it, and most dredge players will discard their dredger at EOT giving you an opportunity to remove it on their upkeep. If he kept a 2 dredger hand it's not as much of a stall, but you can still get them.

Plus, the deck plays Therapy. You can bet he will use it to take your grave hate whenever he can. They know you sided it in, so why sandbag it?

Still - isn't it better to splash white for Oblivion Ring? It is not so narrow card as Angel of Despair. It is also better then Krosan Grip because in addition you don’t need to have Stingscourger (or any other creature with etb trigger if opponent will put Omnisciecne) to fight S&T decks (with exception of Hive Mind). Also because goblins are on the radar right now I think he have to prepare for Engineered Plague, Humility and other enchantments. The two obvious downsides of O-ring are that it can be counter and destroyed.

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Originally Posted by Sasan

how likely is it to have that kind of hand when you need it? not likely. really not.

Just board in Angel and mulligan to whatever it takes (even to 3) to get him. then do nothing and wait till Show and Tel is cast. Use the Angel and destroy Grisel/Emrakul/Omni and attack 4 turns with the angel and win easily ;-) how often will that happen? if you are not afraid of hard mulligans: very likely :-)

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It's not likely to have Stinscourger and KGrip, but it is pretty likely that you can have KGrip and another goblin with an ETB trigger (MWM, Matron, Ringleader, SGC). Those ETB triggers really give goblins a decent chance of Gripping the Omni before it can hardcast Emrakul. So if you play right, KGrip can be very effective in the SnT mu without being super narrow in the sb.

Angel of Despair is probably the best card against SnT, but it cannot be played against anything else. KGrip is great against Miracles, batter skull, and all that other shit. So if you're planning for a metagame where you can't just cram narrow answers to semi-popular decks you're going to need a plan for the playable, adaptable cards in your sb.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

It's not likely to have Stinscourger and KGrip, but it is pretty likely that you can have KGrip and another goblin with an ETB trigger (MWM, Matron, Ringleader, SGC). Those ETB triggers really give goblins a decent chance of Gripping the Omni before it can hardcast Emrakul. So if you play right, KGrip can be very effective in the SnT mu without being super narrow in the sb.

Angel of Despair is probably the best card against SnT, but it cannot be played against anything else. KGrip is great against Miracles, batter skull, and all that other shit. So if you're planning for a metagame where you can't just cram narrow answers to semi-popular decks you're going to need a plan for the playable, adaptable cards in your sb.

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How does the ETB trigger work? The Player who plays Omniscience has priority so he can cast emrakul/griselbrand in response to Grip? Or do I Miss something?

The SnT player has priority correct, but he can't cast creatures/sorcerys because the stack isn't empty. Only after the ETB Trigger resolved but before this happens, you (the goblin player) casts the grip.

ok so with a Grip in Hand you can win against omniscience. Thalia
Holly :-)

but if the SNT Player casts a creature of SNT instead of omni then only Angel or Sting will help. so Angel remains the best sideboard card against them as it is universal concerning all their win conditions :-)

My dilemma here is that Angel of Despair is so narrow and still does not answer all their win cons.

SnT -> Emmy: check.
SnT -> Omniscience: check, but only if his win cons are creatures and/or sorceries.
SnT -> Hive Mind: you destroy Hive Mind, he can still respond with Pacts.

In this aspect K.Grip is better, along with Stingscourger for the first instance. Of course this is entirely dependent on your meta since the Hive Mind and OmniTell with Pacts variants are not as popular AFAIK. Also, K.Grip is far from being a narrow card.

I'm a big fan of the ole Grip.
But without any form of manaramp/acceleration I'm not sure.....

But I gotta ask;
You peeps who are splashing green for it, is there any other things you've considered splashing in that colour?
Reverent Silence or Nature's Claim are other options i guess, they're counterable for sure, but they do have that element of surprise.
I've not tried using them in Goblins, but in other decks I have they've been a great way to catch a player tapping out, or using up one of their Force's at least.

Pyroblast works on 2 of your three in that list, with maindeck Stingscourger for Emmy/Grisel.
The thing that has me wondering about Grip is that SnT decks can get their biz on the board on turn 2 potentially.
If we're on the draw - you're hoping......
Considering how many targets we have for opponents' waste's, and how unlikely we are to have 3 mana when they're going off before our turn 3, I'd favour Pyroblast/REB over Grip for combo matchups - especially Omni.

My friend asked me to build the Goblin deck for him - so here I am trying to make sense of it!! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by slave

Pyroblast works on 2 of your three in that list, with maindeck Stingscourger for Emmy/Grisel.
The thing that has me wondering about Grip is that SnT decks can get their biz on the board on turn 2 potentially.
If we're on the draw - you're hoping......
Considering how many targets we have for opponents' waste's, and how unlikely we are to have 3 mana when they're going off before our turn 3, I'd favour Pyroblast/REB over Grip for combo matchups - especially Omni.

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You are correct here. I am not a fan of splashing for hate, so REB/Pyroblast is my first go-to options. It does answer the first 2 on the list, but Hive Mind is an obstacle for me here personally.

KGrip does have slowness as its vulnerability, so if your problem is SnT, OmniTell variants only, I think mulling to REB/Pyroblast with/or Stingscourger MAY BE enough.

why don't you simply concentrate on SnT? 4REB + 4Pyroblast (or something that close) should grant you the win... (also the matron/stingscourger plan is fine).

I just don't like the Angel splash

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Originally Posted by Poron

why don't you simply concentrate on SnT? 4REB + 4Pyroblast (or something that close) should grant you the win... (also the matron/stingscourger plan is fine).

I just don't like the Angel splash

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There are maybe no other deck (other than Stasis, MUC or Spiral Tide, ok...) That you'd want to put 8 Rebs in. Also, it's kind of a flawed plan, since they can Burning Wish (red) for Overmaster (red) and get an Emrakul/Grizzle into pay (or even cast Emrakul from Omniscience if you don't have an ETB guy on your hand). And, if you get paired against Sneak Attack, Reb kind of sucks.

I have another (2) hipotetical situation (thanks Jon for answering the last one):
You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

I have another (2) hipotetical situation (thanks Jon for answering the last one):
You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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I would look at the risk/reward for these situations. In scenario 1, the risk is that he blocks and you lose your Prospector. The reward is one damage getting through. It's a pretty low risk/low reward situation IMO. Personally I wouldn't go for it because Prospector can be valuable later and I'm not sure 1 damage would make the difference (especially with an incoming Batterskull).

In the second scenario, the risk is the same but the reward is much greater. Being able to prowl Earwig would be sweet. So in that case I'd probably go for it. Just my 2c.

Just curious here;

How does Goblins with discard play out?
Instead of looking for ways to counter or destroy SnT/Sneak/Hive - would trying some Thoughtsieze & Duress be worth a try?
If they just force it, at least we've dealt with that.....

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

I have another (2) hipotetical situation (thanks Jon for answering the last one):
You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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Scenario #1: Pretty terrible attack. Skirk Prospector is one of your better cards against Stoneblade, especially with Mogg War Marshal in hand. Trading that for 1 damage seems like the worst thing ever, especially since your opponent is likely to land Batterskull and force you to play the long game.

Scenario #2: I probably don't attack, but I'm more likely to attack if my opponent is a "good" player who might overthink things. Also if my opponent has cards like Umezawa's Jitte or Humility in his deck that I really want to remove. Otherwise, dropping a 5/3 is nice, but I don't think it's enough to win the game; your best bet is still grinding things out. I probably go Mogg War Marshal, with 1 mana open; sacrifice the MWM for a token and a mana, then play Piledriver to hopefully bait out a FoW to enable a Ringleader on turn 3.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

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I don't think I would attack into his Mystic here without a trick of some sort (Gempalm etc.). Prospector is too good vs. the Batterskull/Jitte out of his deck to risk it. However, I also don't think that my opponent would risk his Mystic to prevent one damage...so it's really a toss up.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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Here I think the upside is better than the downside, however the Badlands might give the Squad away and make him more likely to block. The nice thing is that he probably isn't expecting Chrome Mox, so you might get to sneak it right in.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

I have another (2) hipotetical situation (thanks Jon for answering the last one):
You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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Scenario #1
Your opponent at this point doesn't know if you have a Gempalm and are baiting a block to burn out the SFM.
What your opponent does know is your Skirk is a card that can blank his BS. Whether or not you have Gempalm should become a secondary consideration for your opponent at this point. They know you're giving them an opportunity to kill Skirk, and Skirk is a card they will have to eventually answer anyway if they want to get BS online.
Therefor, I think it is correct for your opponent to block Skirk, which makes it wrong for you to throw him at your opponent. Better to sit back with the Skirk Prospector and cast a Mogg War-Marshal.

Scenario #2
If you manage to prowl in Earwig Squad you will still have to deal with their BS in hand. Which you can't do if they've blocked your chump-attacking Skirk. Also, if they Daze Earwig you've just 2:1'd yourself and cleared your board. Strong play.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Your opponent at this point doesn't know if you have a Gempalm and are baiting a block to burn out the SFM.
What your opponent does know is your Skirk is a card that can blank his BS. Whether or not you have Gempalm should become a secondary consideration for your opponent at this point. They know you're giving them an opportunity to kill Skirk, and Skirk is a card they will have to eventually answer anyway if they want to get BS online.

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This is 100% correct. They will have to kill the Skirk Prospector in order to make their equipment relevant (which is how they don't die in this MU). If they have no spot removal, you just gave them the out they needed by offering up one of your better answers to equipment.

It's the same whether or not you have Earwig Squad or 20 Gempalms in hand. If they have no removal, they need to make the block.

As a rule of thumb, I never attack with Skirk Prospector against Esperblade, Stoneblade, or any other deck with equipment for that matter, except for the alpha strike (and even then only when extremely necessary.)

Let them handle the problem of removing him, don't give them chances.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.

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I would not attack.

1) If he blocks, I'm down a body, he now knows I don't have gempalm, and I lose an ability I might be able to use to later (either for a quick mana boost to drop down my other goblins and hit with piledriver if he makes a mistake).

2) It hardly seems worthwhile considering the risk-reward for -1 damage.

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The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.

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Now the risk-reward is much better, essentially it makes attacking much more attractive because I could cut his win cons. However, I still would not attack.

If I use chrome mox to play earwig I'm down 3 cards from my hand and that leaves me with either piledriver or MWM and a mountain. Which means next turn I may not have any cards in my hand and/or nothing to cope with what he might have in his hand. Instead I have to hope I get some good draws and/or the rest of his hand won't stop me and/or he doesn't get any good draws.

Attacking with earwig can tilt the game in my favor, but it won't necessarily win me the game out right and it could definitely blow up in your face.

This is an "all in" play, and I'm a bit more conservative in these situations. If my "all in" won't net me the game outright, it's not worth the risk.

Well.. played in a 50 people tournament.. 6 rounds..dropped after round 4.. My friends wanted to go and actually I had no fun either =(.
Played 10 games (2-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-2) and not a single one was fun to play..
M1 0-2 vs Belcher, the match had 3 turns..
M2 2-0 vs Dredge, he did nothing (unlucky dredges g1, really weak hand g2)
M3 2-1 vs Spiral Tide, G1 I had the t4 kill..but he started and went of t4.. G2 he did nothing, G3 he mulls to 5 doing nothing.
M4 1-2 vs Rest in Piece-Combo.. He allways has the t2/3 Energy Field while I can't draw a REB/Pyroblast nor anything useful.. He lost the first game because he drawed to many cards with enchantress and had to discard, destroying the field.
10 boring games =(.

List was okay I guess.. similiar to the last one, -2 Fanatic +2 Pyrokinesis (expected a lot of Goblins, was right btw.) -1 Stingscourger +1 Krenko.

Thanks for everybody that answered! Really appreciated =]

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Originally Posted by Holly

Well.. played in a 50 people tournament.. 6 rounds..dropped after round 4.. My friends wanted to go and actually I had no fun either =(.
Played 10 games (2-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-2) and not a single one was fun to play..
M1 0-2 vs Belcher, the match had 3 turns..
M2 2-0 vs Dredge, he did nothing (unlucky dredges g1, really weak hand g2)
M3 2-1 vs Spiral Tide, G1 I had the t4 kill..but he started and went of t4.. G2 he did nothing, G3 he mulls to 5 doing nothing.
M4 1-2 vs Rest in Piece-Combo.. He allways has the t2/3 Energy Field while I can't draw a REB/Pyroblast nor anything useful.. He lost the first game because he drawed to many cards with enchantress and had to discard, destroying the field.
10 boring games =(.

List was okay I guess.. similiar to the last one, -2 Fanatic +2 Pyrokinesis (expected a lot of Goblins, was right btw.) -1 Stingscourger +1 Krenko.

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Those was some fucked up matchups you played against. Better luck on the pairings next time...

Jim Davis playing Goblins right now in the Top 4 at SCG Providence. Best of luck to him. He's supposed to be playing 12 Post in the Semis. Not a horrible MU.

Another good showing with a green splash and no Krenko.....don't wanna say I told you so :)