There are discussions about all of these cards and more throughout the thread. The primer in the opening post still has details on a lot of cards decisions although some of it is out of date
Printable View
There are discussions about all of these cards and more throughout the thread. The primer in the opening post still has details on a lot of cards decisions although some of it is out of date
That is part of the discussion during the last 8 pages my friend. I repeat some of the stuff regarding your questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by cronos
- 4 Therapy, 3 Silence is the better configuration. It puts less pressure on your manabase (white mana) while pushing the Goblins plan via the flashback to a maximum. You'll understand the moment you assemble G.Probe, Cabal Therapy and (infernal or Wish for) EtW for the first time, mindtwisting your opponent out of the game.
- We had Tropical and Carpets in the SB 2 weeks ago. Carpet didn't pull its weight against Tempo decks that opperate on 1 mana or so. It was a manastone for G in a deck with 40% mana total, ergo pointless. Got cut for Pyroblast to battle Delver, Clique, Counterbalance, Show&Tell, etc.
- Bryant and I sure have tested all those possible SB cards, but like IGG those were considered too narrow to fill the wishboard. Limiting the wishboard makes more space available for real sideboard cards. I even left Telemin at home for the last tourney (which barely bite my ass though!)
Thanks for your help, I'll read those pages. Regards.
De nada :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cronos
When I Ad Nauseam, I find I often do it with one mana floating off LED. I've typically chosen black (sometimes red), but I've been thinking: does it make more sense to float blue to give you more outs (Brainstorm/Ponder) if you brick?
Thoughts?
Bryant you could just reedo a sideboarding guide from the in and outs like u did in the jupiter site a fee months ago.
Would be great!
Thanks
Bryant did update the SB guide in the OP. Should be good enough for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
No, it does not. Your goal is to generate 6+ mana aka needing Red and Black mana to cast rituals/rites post AN either via playable initial mana sources (landdrops!) or previous flooded mana. Floating a blue mana into AN needs you to find 2 more IMS in your Ad Nauseam/cantrip. I could give you a very detailed analysis of various simulated flip scenarios to prove, that floating blue into AN is often a dead end, but for the sake of this thread (and myself), I will not spam several pages of examples rather than just asking you for believing me in regards to that. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrGevatter
The color I float depends on the Rites/rituals/tutors/wishes already cast, but I would prefer to float RED. Why? Because casting a flipped wish is not only the cheapest (aka most likely) but also the option, which does not require you to flip a LED in addition, unlike IT (which you already burned one of to fetch AN in most cases). Food for thought guys :D
Hey folks,
I've been following this thread for quit some time now, but I decided it is finally time to contribute to the discussion now :).
I recently builded the deck and did several hours of testing against my arsenal of test-decks and wondered why there is no dedicated hate against D'n'T as this can be a horrible matchup if they land a Mother with Thalia or Revoker + Thalia or Canonist + Mother, etc...
Wouldn't it be good to play Dread of Night or Massacre in the SB? What are the arguments against it?
@Lemnear: Btw, I'm a German Storm and Elf player, too. If you really wish to meet more of our kind in person maybe we meet each other in Paris?
There isn't enough space to put in hate against a deck whose hate you can just race. It can be rough sometimes sure but you can win turn 1/2 they can't play hate until their turn two, play you have silence and therapy.
Jay pretty much nailed in in regards to D&T. I dare to add that this is a matchup where the decision to keep a mediocre 7 or rather mulling to 6 is essential. Lost not even a single game to D&T this year ... Belcher-Style ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NoizeMe
Yeah, Storm and Elves are my Bread & Butter (with Miracles at 3rd Position). I doubt I'll participate at the GP in Paris next month. It's dated at Valentines Weekend and Daddy needs fresh, desperate girls ;) Where you are from btw?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz
Sounds all valid :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
So this match-up comes down to a race in terms of you are winning turn 1-2 or hope they have no serious hate up from turn 3-n?
I'm from Aachen. To bad, I always like to meet new people at tournaments ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
You can delay hate a bit with Silence and, to a lesser extend, Therapy, in case you can't go off before turn 3. D&T has serious trouble to race T1 Goblins or such even after sideboarding
Another option is replacing Silence with Thoughtseize, between UWR Delver and UW Miracles Vendillion Cliques and Meddling Mages have become much more common than Leyline of Sanctity to worry about having all 7 of your protection cards post-board be immune. I'd rather just Thoughtseize and discard the Counterbalance, Meddling Mage or Vendillion Clique and not have to worry about playing a golden land second or sacrificing a Lotus Petal to cast my disruption. You can make up ground with the full 4 Xantid Swarms and a Tropical Island in the SB vs Show&Tell, you get virtual space in your SB back when you don't have to SB in removal like Abrupt Decay because you're no longer letting them resolve their Counterbalances/Meddling Mages while you hold onto Silence.
I'm running -3 Silence +3 Thoughtseize, -1 Land +1 Chrome Mox and a manabase of 4 City of Brass, 4 Fetchlands, 2 Underground Sea, 1 Volcanic Island and not having serious issues with life loss. I basically came to the conclusion after playing Pyroblast that our protection/removal has to be as general and pro-active as possible, I haven't really needed to board in Pyroblast after MDing Thoughtseize because ideally the bears never resolve.
As all my decks were unavailable for yesterdays tournament I just took my Brothers TES (Bryants list from about 6 months ago) and played my very first stormtournament and my very first games with Storm at all. I did end 3-3 but that's not what I am here for. There was one situation where I was under the assumption I did right, but my opponent playing Esper (but normally ANT) meant I misplayed. Ok, here it is:
I start with Duress, take his FoW, see his Hand of Brainstorm, and irrelevant stuff. I pass, he goes Land go, I draw, and pass. He brainstorms, plays Fetchland, gets Underground Sea and passes. Sorry for not knowing my exact hand but here is what I know. I had the pierceproof kill, which would leave me with casting IT, cracking LED and discarding one card - Brainstorm. I went for the kill and he had the FoW. He said I should have cast Brainstorm and waited one more turn, I knew that the top card was a blank and my lands were: Gemstone (2 Counter) and City of Brass.... Should I have cast Brainstorm here or just go for it?
I know the situation isn't very well described, but I'd love to hear your opinions about it.
Greetings
I found CoB + Thoughtseize pretty gross against fast damage and Tempo. I had better results with Thoughtseize and an increased number of fetches instead of the CoBs. However, the increased number of Divert, Spell Snare and Flusterstorms in my meta convinced me to stick with Silence for now even with our S&T crowd leaving Leyline at homeQuote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Edit:
He did at least saw 5 fresh cards without applying any pressure in the meantime. It's not "wrong" to play Brainstorm here to find protection for your kill. Asuming it was game 1 you gamble against 3 remaining FoW's and I think going for the kill is valid too. Postboard, I'd Brainstorm without a doubt as cards like Flusterstorm will stop you in addition to FoWQuote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
He is looking at five chances to find a 3-outer while you are looking at two chances to find one of your 6 other protection spells. I think going for it here isn't unreasonable. Was there another blue card when you originally Duressed him (besides Brainstorm)? If not, I would've gone for it since getting both a FoW and blue card isn't very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
I don't think there was - it's just that he insisted on the fact that it was clearly wrong, while I was trying to make a point that there are valid reasons for doing so - which proved not that easy - taking into consideration this was during my third game of Storm or something :DQuote:
Originally Posted by davelin
Thanks
Greetings
Not certain how Flusterstorm is an argument against discard when it counters Silence, but I can't argue against Spell Snare and Divert being cards you'd otherwise blank with Silence. I guess it really comes down to which cards you expect to see more than the other, for me Spell Snare in MDs is a rarity and Divert is obviously a SB card. I just expect to see more hate bears and Counterbalance than I do fringe counters at the moment.
If you have problems with life loss you can always play with a set of Gemstone Mines instead, I think the 4th Chrome Mox does a fairly good job at off setting the life loss tho'.
Your opponent seems very results-oriented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
G1 - I'd do that every one time with TES, probably with AnT tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
A friend of me played my sneak and show deck in GPDC and he played Bryant.
He made a report and I would like to know what you would have made if he just snap slams the swan song to counter silence. If you would have combo out or wait one more turn or so.
My deck played 1 misdirection 3 flsuterstorms 2 swan song and 4 fow as protection, just to lt u know.
Here is his report
Round 6 vs Bryant Cook, ANT
Game 1 I kept a hand that allowed me to Sneak Attack on turn 3 and win on turn 4, and although it was not the strongest hand, it did also have a Swan Song. This game was somewhat uninteractive, with me playing land-go and my opponent just Pondering. My opponent was playing with beta duals and Japanese foil cards, so I respected that he was a strong player in whatever deck he was using - no one invests that much money into a deck without being a master. Because of that respect, on my turn three I decided to leave up mana for Swan Song instead of playing Sneak Attack, so that I could Emrakul + Sneak Attack on turn 4. But my opponent led off with Silence. I was finally able to recognize the deck as ANT, but was unsure of what to do. Should I Swan Song and try to fool my opponent into not comboing out of respect for Force of Will? Or should I let it resolve, and hope my opponent bricks on his combo? I decided to let it resolve, and after a couple cantrips my opponent got enough gas to successfully Tendrils me. I believe I misplayed and played "too honestly". I could have baited my opponent into thinking I had Force of Will by slamming Swan Song - but conversely, he had certainly played out this scenario hundreds of times. How often does he play into Force of Will regardless, in which case I lose anyways? That is only an answer he knows, but I think my error in judgment cost me the chance that my opponent could falsely read me as having Force of Will, then pass the turn and let me win.
Game 2 I kept a hand with no counters, yet, turn two Show and Tell for Emrakul. Again, my inexperience of this match up haunted me - I did not know how fast ANT could kill. Also, was it worth mulliganing into counters or Pyroclasm, despite me winning on turn three? I reasoned that I was beating anything less than a nut draw by my opponent, so after some deliberation, I kept my hand, and my opponent led with turn 1 Xathid Swarm. I got my turn two Emrakul, and my opponent revealed his nut draw, killing me on turn two. As I later found out, Bryant Cook is one of the most accomplished and well respected ANT players, which added another layer of complexity to my game 1 scenario.
4-2
MFG
This is pretty much the worst thing you can do and never correct, because Silence means you cannot interact for the rest of the turn, and "praying that they brick" is not a winning strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Force of Will will only stop certain lines of play, so either the Storm player has a line that doesn't care, or has a line that does care and would also likely Duress/Therapy you to ensure the coast is clear. Its still very much possible that the SnS player was dead even if Silence was countered, but at least he would have gone down swinging.
From what I have read and concerning the developed manabase: go for it. You'll die to S&T/Sneak Attack regardless if you pass the turn and we don't even know if Bryant had a double protection available. The only thing we can tell is that letting Silence resolve is plain wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
The issue was that today you'll rarely face only one hatecard/counter but a mix of those and Silence can beat a hand with Flusterstorm, REB, Divert and Spell Snare unlike Thoughtseize and a shitload of of tempo decks play Snare over Pierce atm to beat Counterbalance, Infernal and Stoneforge Mystic more reliable. This was my reason to stick with Silence for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Hated to have Moxen in my hand too much to add the 4th again
Hello,
I played yesterday at GP Trial of 35 players with this list of Bryant's deck http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/62658. Felt like there is something wrong with the sideboard?
G1 vs. mono R burn 2-1
G2 vs. punishing jund 2-1
G3 vs. uwr delver 1-2
First game I won with silence to wish for diminishing returns :smile: Second game I try to combo on turn 2 or 3 but he has double fows and I just discard my whole hand to led. Third game I kept hand with lots of mana but no wish or tutor so he had time to cast meddling mage naming led and a turn later canonist also having some counters in his hand.
G4 vs. manaless dredge 2-0
This was very epic game from me. I was on go and probet his hand saw colossus, balustrate spy, ichorid, stinkweed imp and 3 narcomoeba orcource I had therapy and took his 3 moebas away got like 4 extra turns atleast for him to discard. Second game was also nice I played land ponder. He discarded phantasmagorian. His threw 6 cards to his gy on my end. There were ichorid, bridge, 2 cabal therapy atleast after dredging some guy. He put ichorid on play and attacked but I used this best card of the deck chain of vapor and bounced it to get again few free turns. Later I went of throught his mindbreak trap with lots of mana, burning wish and warrens making 16 goblins.
G5 vs. death and taxes 1-2
First game I lost he was on play and played turn 2 thalia. Second game I won he mulled to 5 and still had nothing. Third game lost he had some permanent hate and I kept slow hand.
G6 vs. bug delver 2-1
I was 8th at swiss with 2 % more owp than 9th player :tongue:
Top 8 match against imperial painter 2-1
First game he put very quickly magus of the moon but later I was able to wish for grapeshot and later playing to shot his guy and same turn cabal therapy for his another magus for win. Second game was hard he mulled to 5 but started with T1 thorn. He got 2 moons later. Third game I really screwd up I saw his hand with probe but didn't remember pyroblast when I had put ad nauseam top of library with 2 lands on play and led I cast probe but same second remember his blast so didn't brake the led soon later he countered my 2 brainstorms with blasts and I counld't do that trick again. Later I cast warrens with 8 goblins and he was still on 1 land (turn 2 he played magus of the moon with mountain and 2 spirit guides I had land open and chain of vapor for returning it back :laugh:). I attacked once but he draw another mountain and pyroclasms my gobbos.
Couldn't have been Bryant, he doesn't have beta duals. He refuses to have legible cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
@fogxanic: It looks like you may have played against forum member Hopo in the Quarter Final's.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778922
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
A guy mistaken TES for ANT without any clue how to play the matchup correctly shall be forgiven to mistake FBB Duals for Betas as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz
@fogxanic
Sideboard is a bit outdated. Death & Taxes should be managable with solid keeps without sideboarding. How did you board against UWR? You need to expect Meddling Mage/Cannonist from this deck
I sb in like 8 cards maybe there were some too much including chain and 2 decays. Also xantid swarms and carpets. But third game sided out some xantids because he still had lightning bolts in at second game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
My friend its more or less new to legacy. May be he thought FBB lands where beta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz
Cause thats the normal black bordered duals in USA.
But was Bryant for sure^^
That's far too much my friend. You don't want Xantid and Carpets here, as the additional mana and Bugs doesn't help against the hatebears. You only want the removal for the bears.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
Out of curiosity: what did you board out? Can't imagine that boarding out 8 cards didn't harm the deck tbh
Just want to thank everyone for the great work on the deck and the thread! I've picked up the deck recently since I love storm from the Long.dec days. Learned a lot from this thread, and I've already gone 4-0 at two 8-mans with it. Going off T1 with this deck is just so satisfying.
I was just joking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Hmm, haven't seen a deck as diverse as 4 different 1cc counters between MD and SB yet, I guess it was only a matter of time until the format caught up with Cabal Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I always find myself moving between the extremes of 4 and 2 Chrome Mox, mainly because I think the deck has become more of an Empty the Warrens deck than anything else with Cabal Therapy and I really like the 4th fetchland if I plan to see Turns 3+
I can't really tell if it's a euro-thing to split up SB hate that extreme into a lot of 1-/2-offs, but that shit can get really annoying if you want to push through with discard like Therapy. Kai Thiele, one of the prime bUrg players around and close friend, played FoW, REB, Snare, Pierce, Flusterstorm, Daze, DRS, Thoughtseize and Golgari charm postboard against me. That's serious news if you try to push through with discard that often only trades 1-for-1 with such splitted hate or Sideboards of UWR Delver with Cannonist/Meddling Mage/REB/Flusterstorm/Leyline/Snare ... just sickQuote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I believe that if instead silence the opponent had played Therapy, then that thereapy would have been countered by that Swang Song.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
That was the real good play!
Joke.
If it's satisfiying for you to play the deck and it rewards your patience to learn it with top results (and prices) It's worth the time we invested here. No need to thank. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I board out little bit of everything like 2 ponder 1 tutor 1 mox 1 silence etc.
Happy new year to all TES people!
We had our monthly big legacy tournament yesterday (5th of January) and here's the link of my brief tournament report.
http://mtglegacy.freeforums.org/post12.html#p12
@fogxanic
If I'll be facing against a URW, I might have this SB plan,
out: 1 ponder, 1 chrome, 1 etw, 1 tutor
in: 1 trops, 2 pyroblast, 1 thoughtseize
If against DT
out: 1 chrome, 1 tutor, 3 silence
in: 1 vapor, 1 thoughtseize, 2 decays, 1 trops
Anyone in the mood to shoot pros and cons at me about running a third decay in the board over chain of vapor?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Take into consideration the possible meta that you'll be playing. If you feel that counter-top lovers will be rampant, then including a 3rd decay is justified. But if DTs and the like hatebears are going to be present, having a vapor is much better than paying BGx.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyMonster
Let me put it in this presentation:
AD
good vs. counterbalance
not that good vs. tax effect manipulation
bad vs. permanents with 4cc and higher
CoV
not that good vs. counterbalance
good vs. taxing effects
good vs. permanents with 4cc and higher
better in some situations wherein you need to chain bounce your moxen to feed your storm count
can remove two hates if opponent decides to bounce something from you.
Personally last Sunday, I was tempted to replace 1 pyroblast with a vapor. But I still went with Cook's list because I was expecting a lot of TNN and delver decks.