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My 1 Ad Naus, 1 Tendrils, 1 PIF, 0 Dark Petition, 1 Empty the Warrens, 1 Personal Tutor maindeck was fine in the GP Detroit side events. Personal Tutor is a real card.
Chewer was also fine. Sphinx underperformed. (Cast it once, it was answered immediately. Flipped it once to Ad Nauseam.)
A few quick things:Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
—Thought-Knot Seer CAN hit Ingot Chewer.
—You're right that, in a given seven-card hand, hitting more than one Chalice or Thorn isn't very likely. The problem is that they get mulligans, same as we do, and more than one lock-piece is so hard for us to beat that they're pretty likely to go to 5 in order to find them. If they board in Trinisphere, their odds are pretty good.
—I can understand the argument that we need to be careful not to spend too many slots on hate for any one deck, but I don't see why we should treat this deck as anything but a Miracles-level threat, or maybe even a bigger one. If we're bringing in 5-6 cards for Miracles, it stands to reason that we probably want a bigger number of threats than we'd bring in against decks that aren't as big a problem. Even though Eldrazi's a faster deck (making it dangerous to run too many cards that dilute our combo), we really, really need answers to their hate, and relying on one-mana discard won't cut it if they draw any number of Chalices in their opener. Personally, I've got dead space in my sideboard (maybe because my meta's pretty small). A lot of our other sideboard options didn't really do much for us anyway, in my testing, so I've had a few flex spots for a while that I'm now filling with Recall effects. It's worth pointing out, incidentally, that nevilshute's point about AdN is important: we don't want too many high-costed cards, so I'm probably only running 1-2 Rebuilds (alongside 1-2 Hurkyl's) rather than more Rebuilds, even if they're our best out against multiple lock pieces. Losing 3 off Ad Nauseam for something that isn't business kills.
I mean Miracles, Eldrazi, and Death & Taxes are probably our major game one bad matchups. Ignoring other decks for sideboard construction doesn't seem too insane to me. I'm on something like:
1-2 Xantid Swarm
0-1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3-4 Abrupt Decay
0-1 Krosan Grip
3 Dread of Night
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Pithing Needle/graveyard hate/Flusterstorm
assuming Empty isn't the main. I don't think it makes sense to board stuff in for Delver, for instance. That matchup is already pretty good. I agree that Eldrazi needs to be treated like a Miracles-level threat.
What I meant by "doesn't hit" - Ingot is a turn 1 response. Any good hand with a t2/3/4 response risks losing it to a t2 TKS.
I don't know how realistic it is to think that we can ever beat turn 1 Chalice into turn 2 TKS on the play in any circumstances.
So far in my testing I've been able to keep a positive win record against them when I'm on the play, and that's all I can ask for. Having a discard spell turn 1 followed by a turn 2 or 3 kill is what I'm aiming for in the matchup. I'm also playing 4 Duress, because you can't afford to get the 50/50 Therapy on Thorn/Chalice wrong on turn 1. Thinking about playing Thoughtseizes main now, because they don't force me to guess turn 1 and they also hit TKS when needed. Potentially EtW main over AN then. Still have some testing to do, but honestly the matchup will probably never be good for us. The metagame seems pretty hostile right now, and in the back of my head I'm a tiny bit worried about the soon-to-be-released Invasive Surgery.
Are you keeping discard in against them, or are you just talking about pre-board?
Mostly pre-board, and I often go back to discard when I'm back on the play game 3. Discard is horrible on the draw most of the time, but on the play it's often good. Snagging their turn 1 lock piece is better than having to Decay it a turn later.
EDIT: Playing one EtW main might be a good idea right now anyway, I recently watched someone fold twice when TKS took his randomly drawn Tendrils. It's so stupid that this thing also has to exile things on top of being a 4/4 Thoughtseize for 2.
Maindeck Empty is okay to good versus anything without Stoneforge Mystic. I think it makes sense right now.
I don't think this is anything to be worried about. It is basically just as playable as Envelop - I don't see the Delirium effect suddenly making Envelop a universally-played card, and even if it does get played more, it's just another counterspell that we need to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
Is Teferi's Realm good yet?
When just considering Chalice it seems decent, even though UU is an issue potentially. But in the face of sphere/thorn effects it seems untenable.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
I'm having good experiences running 2/1 Hurkyl's Recall / Echoing Truth vs Eldrazi
I agree. What's more is most current decks that would be interested in running this effect will have an issue getting delirious (:wink:). Getting a land, instant and sorcery into their own yard is almost a given but what about the 4th card type? They will likely have to bank on us discarding a deathrite or Liliana from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
I mean don't get me wrong, it's obviously a strict upgrade on Envelop (rest in peace foil Envelop, I hardly knew yee), so any deck that wanted Envelop is going to run this instead. But yeah I don't see this doing much against us. A lands player from my LGS is sweating over this though.
Street wrathQuote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
Street Wraith is super played in legacy, agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper
That's true, I guess decks like Miracles can't realistically get to Delirium.. The most likely suspects would probably be decks with Liliana or red based Delver decks, especially Grixis Delver, which can sac their dudes to Therapies and/or zap a redundant creature with a Bolt if needed. Killing your own dudes never sounds appealing, but if you're able to counter+extract something like a Show and Tell, Loam or Infernal Tutor for U, it's totally worth it.
Teferi's realm could actually be sweet against versions of Eldrazi and MUD that mostly rely on Chalice and 3sphere, but against normal sphere effects it's pretty bad.
Geez, cutting four cards that get rid of Counterbalance and three that get rid of Chalice for three Teferi's Realms sure opens up a lot of slots. Probably can't beat a Thorn or a Lodestone Golem ever, though.
So I'm finalizing my sideboard and in testing I've honestly been pretty underwhelmed by Carpet of Flowers. Anyone have a good suggestion on what I can run instead of them? It just seems like I rarely get more than 1 mana off of it.
I haven't run Carpet of Flowers or Xantid Swarm in some time. I'm thinking of bringing back a couple of Swarms because someone's started to play Show and Tell in my metagame, but I'm not sold on making cuts for either card. I haven't noticed an increased problem with counterspells without Xantid Swarm. The same is true for Carpet, but I feel like there's a stronger case for bringing in Carpet in a number of matchups. One of its major advantages is that it can produce a boatload of mana (esp. in multiples) when the opponent has Rest in Peace, a card that makes Cabal Ritual and Dark Petition useless. I've never been in such a situation, but I'm sure it's a real thing. Just seems to me like we've got problems that'll show up more frequently and that are worth more sideboard space, even against the same decks that run RiP.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbousm
Not sure that any two suggestions for what to run instead will be the same, but here's what I'm running at the moment:
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Disfigure
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Dark Petition
1x Krosan Grip
1x Tropical Island
1x Rebuild
1x ????? (usually Massacre, SDT, or a third Duress; lately, probably Rebuild #2)
(N.B.: Maindeck, I'm running 14 lands, I just switched out Preordain #2 with Sensei's Top, and I'm running nine rituals, six discards, and singletons of every piece of business except Grim Tutor [incl. Empty AND AdN].)
Everything green comes in against Miracles (incl. Trop). Everything with cmc 1 (sans Duress) comes in against Maverick and Delver, or anything else with Gaddock Teeg or Ethersworn Canonist. Same goes for Elves, Gobbos, and D&T, but almost definitely with Massacre added. The Rebuild/Recall effects are for Eldrazi (or, I guess, other Chalice decks), and I'd probably run the Tropical to up my land count in the matchup and allow for added Abrupt Decays if necessary. The extra Dark Petition (I had 2 in my main until this week) is for matchups in which we don't want or need Empty, or matchups in which Empty's likely to just get us killed. Examples include Elves, Goblins, Batterskull.dec.
Hope this helps! Anyone have suggestions?
P.S., regarding Teferi's Realm, Invasive Surgery, and Street Wraith:
—Teferi's Realm looks pretty good, but (like Rebuild) it gets totally trashed by Thorn. Also, Realm absolutely can sabotage Empty the Warrens.
—Invasive Surgery certainly looks like it's got a whole lot of potential, but I don't think it's a big threat. Why would a deck with access to Flusterstorm, Daze, Force, and/or Stifle want to run Surgery? How many blue decks do we need to worry about that would run Envelop, and how big a threat are they? Why would a deck typically without blue splice in this one blue card when Mindbreak Trap is available? Don't get me wrong: getting all our Tutors taken is likely to kill us all, but the card feels really narrow and probably not strong enough.
—Street Wraith is pretty definitionally a one-trick pony for us. And we're not the only ones who have this problem. I don't think it's worth our concern, at least at this point.
[EDIT: Note to self: don't type long, incoherent posts when you're really tired. I guess the question regarding Surgery is one of whether it's likely to do more damage to us than any number of other options an opponent can field. It's obviously better than Envelop, but was Envelop really all that great against us to begin with? Strikes me that, though Surgery's pretty much Extraction tacked onto Envelop, there are a lot of other threats that seem easier to throw at us and comparably devastating if the opponent has a clock. And Surgery's just as easy for us to stop as any other countermagic if we find it off of a Probe or a Duress early on.]
Did anyone from this thread play in Prague 2016?
Well, I played in the Legacy Challenge on Magic Online. Results updated into my Storm Spreadsheet.
Decklist.
1-2 Shardless
2-1 Merfolk
2-0 UR Delver
2-0 Explorer 12 Post
2-1 Merfolk
0-2 Team America
0-2 Infect
Most of my games were rather uninteresting and you can get all the relevant info from the spreadsheet, but here's a few scenarios:
R1G2 my opponent has two draws to find Force, hits and I lose because they also have Deathrite and I'm all-in on Infernal.
R2G1 my opponent has no Spells after my turn two, but I still lose because I never find any business spells.
R3G1 I have to sweat my opponent's draw step because I misclick when paying for their Daze and don't have any more black mana for the turn.
R4G2 my opponent has 2 Warping Wail, which is certainly an annoying card because it's a counterspell for non-blue that's actually playable (looking at you, Mindbreak Trap).
R5G2 I Duress my opponent and they have Flusterstorm and Arcane Laboratory. They don't have a third land and I don't have another discard spell nor cantrip, so I take Flusterstorm, they draw land, I lose.
R6G1 I never draw a single ritual, but I'm floating Infernal, Petition, Ad Nauseam & Past in Flames through my hand and library without having the mana to cast any of them.
R6G2 I accidentally play a Lotus Petal I don't mean to play before my combo turn and lose because I don't make enough Goblins.
R7G1 my opponent keeps a very questionable hand on the play but draws pump spells in both their draw steps to kill me on turn three.
R7G2 I have Infernal Tutor, Past in Flames and four rituals, but no red mana or discard spell to get rid of the Past in Flames.
Storm is definitely strong, but you're mostly playing the odds right now, which is way less fun than navigating through walls of countermagic.
Hey guys. I've just recently built storm (played maverick for a while but wanted something different). Here is the list I have built:
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded STrand
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Preordain
1 Dark Petition
Side
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Disfigure
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ????
Thoughts? Went 2-1 at my local shop Thursday (first time I've played it).
Match 1 Burn:
Game 1: Had a pretty good opening for burn. Opponent opted for the swiftspear into bolt on turn 2. I git probe and find eidolon which I promptly therapy on my turn 2. Found what I needed and went off turn 4 facing lethal next turn.
Game 2: sideboard into empty (saw a plateau so I was fearful of leyline). Never saw it and died to what burn does best.
Game 3: Bring back in tendrils (leave out AN). Spent a lot of time doing math and figured out the line to make it work exactly on turn 3 with IT -> PiF.
1 - 0
Match 2 (4C delver):
I know these guys pretty well and I always put him on some sort of delver. Never sure which variant it will be though
Game 1: Got hymned on turn 2 (losing IT and LED). I was planning to go off on my turn. TNN next turn hits me a few times before I find what I need off AN. Although I did go to 4 while he was holding bolt.
Game 2: I had a turn 1 kill (even through FoW) but get turn 1 thoughtseized (taking IT). I naturally draw IT 2 turns later. I git probe seeing FoW + ponder. He plays revoker naming LED (2 in hand). A few turns of draw go later and I decided to try to go off (he has 2 unknown + FoW and ponder I still know about). I cast DR. He decides not to force it. I therapy and he again decides not to force. Of course I name force and turns over another force I didn't know about. Coast is clear and I proceed to go off through PiF.
2 - 0
Match 3 (Aggro Loam)
I know this will be a rough match.
Game 1: Turn 1 therapy naming chalice misses. Turn 2 sees land -> mox into GSZ for teeg. No answers mainboard and I scope it up.
Game 2: We both mull to 6 (no therapy or durress). I look at a hand with empty in it but only a way to make 8 goblins I think. I decided to ponder and pass. He plays turn 1 land + mox + chalice on 1 (should've made the goblins). I attempt to brainstorm next turn to keep him honest. He catches it. I see a canonist on turn 2. Great. Naturally draw Hurkyl's (US got wasted) so I have no blue except for lotus petal. I play petal, and recall off 1 land and petal. but cant get anything going. I die a few turns later to dual knights.
2-1
Overall had a good time. Learned a lot. This is the first time I've ever played a live opponent. Been goldfishing a lot to learn the basics. I'm still looking for help on sideboarding plans. It was kind of hit or miss. Should I always board into empty game 2? My meta has 3-4 regulars who play chalice.dec. Not many miarcles players though. Thanks for the help.
Empty is really good against decks that don't handle a lot of creatures well. Burn, Pox, Eldrazi, Delver variants, Shardless, Maverick, and sometimes Miracles and other Chalice decks are all good choices for running Empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc5011
With that having been said, there are three types of decks against which it's really bad: decks with loads of fast creatures, decks with direct counters to loads of fast creatures, and decks that either run Empty themselves or combo out more quickly than Goblins can kill them (N.B.: there's some crossover between these categories).
At first, Empty looks a bit like a panacea because we don't need to build up as much storm or mana to use it as we would need to build for Tendrils. But there's so much hate that just wrecks it (Batterskull, Tabernacle, Pyroclasm, Terminus, Staticaster, Ratchet Bomb, Engineered Explosives) that we should only use it as a curveball kill-con against decks that aren't prepared. It's a very one-dimensional plan of attack, and there's hate for it that can fit in pretty much any deck, from Engineered Plague or Illness in the Ranks in Pox to Golgari Charm in Chalice.dec. We can sac gobbos to Therapy out threats we can assume are looming (against Miracles, name Brainstorm, not Terminus), but that doesn't always work and we don't always draw Therapy with Empty.
The principal difference between Empty the Warrens and Tendrils of Agony is that, though you may win off of a storm of only 5 or 6 with Empty, the card becomes progressively worse and easier to answer as the game goes on; Tendrils gets better and better. If it's turn 3 and you haven't assembled the gobbos, it's probably too late to use them. I think people overstate the odds that Tendrils will get a cleaner kill, but keep in mind that it's often safer to wait a turn to put the Drils to our opponent than it is to pass the turn with a bunch of 1/1s.
Whatever you do, don't ever, ever play Empty against fast combo, Stoneblade, Lands, Jund, or Elves, and you should probably not run it against Goblins or Dredge. You can probably get in under a Terminus against Miracles, but these other decks just outpace the goblins so quickly (or are so packed with board wipes/Batterskull/Goblin Machine Gun) that you're asking to lose if you run the Empty instead of an extra tutor/Past in Flames/Tendrils.
Me, only bad beats stories for the Main event...Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
@Sloshthedark: did you play your usual maindeck? Any change for the future?
Yes, tough luck regarding MUs and draws. Some nice plays, some mediocre but could have been way better...Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
Only 4x ANT for the main event.
Yes, most likely not in the MD ...failed to register Confidants, both Fr+Sa were very UBx/x heavy, nearly no Miracles but I did not feel confident with the tech and backed off literarily in the last secondQuote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
R1 lost to Shardless, he had T2 Hymn+Extraction (obv. 1of) both postboard games which left me with basicaly nothing
R3 lost to myself because I'm an idiot and let a Lands (w Entomb and Liliana) guy cast T2 Trinisphere for 3 mana with Sphere in play, I had a AD in hand, also plenty of action, he stayed on 3 lands for a while but I've never drawn a 3rd land to cast anything, G3 I had a decent mana heavy mull 6, cantrips whiffed, so simply playing out 4 lands was enough for him.. = out by R3... I have realized the 3ball mistake only after I was describing my loss to a friend... loss deserved
R4 got a solid 2008 pairing, Angel Stompy... guy had a T1 3drop available all 3 games, I won the roll and discarded 3Ball, Baneslayer, Moat, Propaganda Angel and won with EtW+ToA... G2 - he had T1 3ball, T2 Mindcensor, T3 Mindcensor... G3, T1 Mindcensor and I never hit a land on top 4... and that was it...
this weekend played a 7 round tournament + top8 (only me was playing ANT ) i get 5-1-1 with ID in the last round for top 8 but lost to miracles in quarters (great game btw)
the matchups were:
2-0 vs rogue
0-2 vs Team america
2-1 vs zoo
2-0 vs tin fins
2-0 vs bug delver
2-0 vs miracles
ID
top 8 :
1-2 vs miracles
my list is pretty standart with 1 PIF, 1 Dark petition, 1 ad nauseum, 1 top, 1 preordain, 1 tendrills , 1 rain of filth
i can do a more extended content about the mathchups if i get more time.
The meta was infested with BUG (shardless, team america and delver) , top 8 was : 1 miracles, 1 lands, 1 ANT, 3 bug delver, 2 team america.
4 eldrazi decks show up but non with great results.
Congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
Pretty diverse matchups.
I guess you mean shardless bug (bug control) because bug delver = TA.
Playing with this list currently:
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Preordain
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox
4x Infernal Tutor
2x Past in Flames
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Pithing Needle
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Dread of Night
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Xantid Swarm
I've played a few leagues with this setup and am really liking it. Finally found a setup where I'm comfortable with having both Ad Nauseam and Empty the Warrens in the main. Occasionally I miss the 2nd Tendrils in the main, but I'm able to revert fully into a grinding station'esque approach against Miracles after board and am so far doing quite well in that department.
3x Hurkyl's Recall is obviously a concession to Eldrazi. So far I'm 4-4 against Eldrazi... it still feels like an uphill climb, but 3x hurkyl definitely helps and I'm okay with it.
Here are the videos from my lates league. Faced 2x Miracles, stoneblade, omni and sneak:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...QtuyXvhoirLn53
Nice looking list Martin,
Been working on a similar list to work in AdN in main.
Quick question regarding the manabase though?
Do you think the fetchland config is the optimal?
I mean, I think I would shuffle up the non-delta ones for more access to Swamp T1.
Really missed having better access to turn 1 discard on a manalight hand.
I have found that having a mix helps your odds of landing both basics in MUs where that matters.
Like 2x mire, 2x tarn, 4xdelta or the likes of this, maybe a 3/1 split if you feel the need for Island is great than swamp T1.
Look forward to your vids mate :-)
Regarding the mana base I'm actually extremely happy with this setup as all my fetchlands allow me to fetch up every land except for the swamp. I've tried running mire and it's not without merit right up until you're sitting with a decay in hand vs Miracles with an Underground Sea in play staring at their counterbalance and just need to draw a way to get to Tropical and then draw the mire. Or when you open a hand of 3 cantrips, some business and one land being mire against a wasteland deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi_gof
If you swap trop for bayou then I'd be more willing to consider bloodstained mire. All in all I think we're discussing very marginal differences and it's really hard to gauge what's actually "best". Mire doesn't let you fetch out basic island which is annoying. Tarn/misty doesn't get swamp which can also be a problem. Both setups can get the job done for sure.
Thanks ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
Well i really mean TA and BUG delver, they play without delvers and without shardless/Vision.
Maybe now its the same na me but i remeber playing against TA before delver exist so i Was Trying to distinguish those 3 BUG v ariants.
Turns out a bit confusing yes but basicly they are 3 bugs variants :)
Quick reply, cool man.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
Yeah I kinda agree. I just value the option of the swamp too much to have half of my fetches being unable to fecth it. So at least 5 of them for me needs to be able to find the swamp. But as you state, difference is likely marginal but still:-)
I have been playing with a bayou in the board since I picked up the deck again, and it comes in post board often since I have had xantid, decay, carpet in the board, meaning Ive felt it was necessary with 2 green sources.
Cheers
Chris
About this list, since eldrazi Rise and i pick up the deck again i Always wanted to have all options available MD, but couldnt test enough with ETW and AD nauseum (i m really a fan of ADN, i never played without it in main ) that list seems what i m looking for to test. Gonna see your vídeos and Starting playing some games!Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I really like your list, nevilshute! And I always enjoy watching you videos!
Concerning your new list:
How do you feel about the Chrome Mox ?
my MD is close to yours with AN and Empty , the difference is - 1 PiF - 1 Chrome Mox + 1 Dark Petition + 1 Rain of Filth . I wonder if the Mox as another initial MS is really better than the 5th One-mana-ritual in supporting AN. I would love to run both, maybe I should just cut a land for the mox and go down to 14 lands - after all many people seem to do well with 14 lands right now and I wouldnt even reduce the number of permanent manasources by doing this.
I've been running 1 Chrome Mox for almost a year now and I haven't looked back. I only run 14 lands, though.
I like that you're onyl running one Island too, so many lists I see nowadays run 2. I never understood that at all, I have seen far more Storm players lose because they naturally drew the Island and lacked black mana than I've seen Storm players actively fetch a second Island. This deck splashes blue for 8-10 cards. Post board it's mostly down to like 6. Double Island plus any other land in the deck is often simply not a functional mana base.
I'm also down to 8 cantrips and currently wouldn't go any higher than that. You're boarding down to just 4 Brainstorms against any Chalice or sphere deck anyway. Every cantrip in your hand against those decks is just a mulligan.
Regarding Chrome Mox: it's obviously there to improve odds on AdN though it hasn't really come up since I decided to reconfigure.
It's definitely a card with a low floor but I don't mind it much. It fills a different role to what Rain of Filth does.
Regarding boarding out cantrips vs chalice/sphere decks: I'm definitely not as orthodox about that as you. If you're running Preordains too if consider bringing some or all of those out but I'm not happy about cutting ponders, might shave, two max. On the draw I'd rather shave discard spells. It obviously also depends on how much stuff you're bringing in :smile:
Fair enough, it's always interesting to see how different people deal with problems differently.
My personal approach against Chalice/Sphere.dec on the draw is saying alright, if they land a turn 1 Chalice I'm in trouble anyway. All discard and cantrips will be dead. But sometimes they'll give me one turn, mostly because they're lacking a way to produce 2 on turn 1, and if they do, I need to make my turn 1 count. Casting a Ponder doesn't cut it there. I'd rather discard their turn 2 play or just attemt to turn 1 them, which my list isn't too bad at because I'm basically boarding into TES with Decays over Ponders.
That approach has problems of course, for example if they drop a sphere instead of a Chalice turn 1. Under a Sphere catrips are definitely much better than discard. My current meta has more 3-spheres and Chalices than spheres though, so I really haven't missed Ponders post board.
Yeah of course they fill different roles in initial mana source vs ritual - but both are also mana sources that improve odds on turn 2+ AN. Thats why I compared them. While Rain is bad Turn 1 / not that good turn 2 , Mox can also support fast Empty combos. But Rain gets better with every land drop and Mox gets worse in the longer games. Im just trying to figure out which one comes with the stronger overall-improvement for the list.
Concerning Cantrips vs Eldrazi: I would board out my one Preordain and maybe one Ponder but not more. We still need them and as nevilshute said discard is often worse otD.