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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
For now this card does not seem worth running in dnt. It just helps in a lot of already good match ups and the elves match up would still probably be bad. It also does nothing against ur delver, which is probably the most popular deck in legacy right now.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Has anyone done more testing with the Land Tax build?
It seems when I lose with this deck, it's most often because I just don't draw enough lands. I hate Horizon Canopy too, in the last event it lost me two games costing me two rounds versus UR because it wasn't a Plains. Even worse, one of those was in the top 8 for a Lotus.
I'd think 2 Land Tax is probably the maximum though. Has anyone had any other results?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cursecatcher
So, do people think Containment Priest is strictly a sideboard option? Its clearly potent against Elves, Reanimator, SnS, and Dredge. Against any fair deck with creatures it teams up with Flickerwisp as hard removal. Against Miracles its a flash threat that can be Cavern'ed to be uncounterable. Its also simply an x/2 in a format full of Forked Bolts and Young Pyromancer tokens. Just some thoughts, card is very interesting.
That's a sick interaction with Flickerwisp. Too bad Priest stops you from Vialing in Flickerwisp. :(
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
still doesnt affect tokens.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BearsandSquires
For now this card does not seem worth running in dnt. It just helps in a lot of already good match ups and the elves match up would still probably be bad. It also does nothing against ur delver, which is probably the most popular deck in legacy right now.
This is a pretty lazy argument. I also don't think you understand how important Green sun's Zenith and Natural Order are to Elves.
Anyway, this is my 75 for the GP, barring any minor tweaks:
11x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
3x Karakas
1x Cavern of Souls
4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Mother of Runes
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Restoration Angel
SIDEBOARD
2x Containment Priest
2x Council's Judgment
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Gut Shot
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Enlightened Tutor
The only thing I hate is the loss of Mangara, but there's too much Delver right now to really justify him, I think.
If anyone has comments/questions, feel free to chime in.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Forgive me if this doesn't belong here, but a very interesting deck top 16'd SCG Columbus. It is very much so in the Twilight Zone between Maverick and Death and Taxes:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Flickerwisp
3 Judge's Familiar
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
3 Karakas
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Choke
1 Banishing Light
1 Dismember
1 Path to Exile
1 Tower of the Magistrate
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ironclad8690
Forgive me if this doesn't belong here, but a very interesting deck top 16'd SCG Columbus. It is very much so in the Twilight Zone between Maverick and Death and Taxes:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Flickerwisp
3 Judge's Familiar
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
3 Karakas
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Choke
1 Banishing Light
1 Dismember
1 Path to Exile
1 Tower of the Magistrate
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Bizzare... But cool
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I know there were rumblings of a green splash recently, and now that I take a second look at this deck I think it is more Death and Taxes with a green splash than it is Maverick (no Knight etc).
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I really wonder how good Containment Priest was for him all day. I'm still definitely not sold on the card yet.
One thing I kin of like is that every single equip he's running (all 4!) gain life. This seems pretty important with a 4x Canopy maindeck.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
The list is now fixed.
It's still weird that he didn't run a SoFaI.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
For those of you who are running COP red in your sideboards I was curious if you brought it in during any match ups besides burn. For example does it come in against UR Delver?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beeeeebs
For those of you who are running COP red in your sideboards I was curious if you brought it in during any match ups besides burn. For example does it come in against UR Delver?
I brought it in verses UR Delver. In a recent tournament, one match versus them I never drew it. In the second, I drew it in a game where I was stuck on three lands and had a Thalia in play. Of course, had I drawn in in the third game where I had 9 lands in play I would have won very easily.
I need to try it more to see if it's really worth it, or if I should just go for all Firewalkers instead. My problem with only Firewalker is that Price of Progress can still wreck you pretty easily.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H
I brought it in verses UR Delver. In a recent tournament, one match versus them I never drew it. In the second, I drew it in a game where I was stuck on three lands and had a Thalia in play. Of course, had I drawn in in the third game where I had 9 lands in play I would have won very easily.
I need to try it more to see if it's really worth it, or if I should just go for all Firewalkers instead. My problem with only Firewalker is that Price of Progress can still wreck you pretty easily.
Thank you, I am curious because I do not personally like Firewalker or any of the creature options fo UR Delver and I am not sure if the COP affects their game plan enough to come in. I'd be very interested to know if one COP and one E Tutor swings the match at all.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beeeeebs
Thank you, I am curious because I do not personally like Firewalker or any of the creature options fo UR Delver and I am not sure if the COP affects their game plan enough to come in. I'd be very interested to know if one COP and one E Tutor swings the match at all.
I had 1 Firewalker and 1 COP with 1 Tutor. It was plagued by muligans all day, so again, variance makes it hard to draw a firm conclusion at this point. If I ran D&T at the GP or any other large event in the near future, I would probably run 2 Firewalkers and 1 COP with 1 Tutor as well. At least, until I can test more and see if there is some other configuration I want to run. My problem with Firewalker is that sometimes it just comes too late. COP is gas in the late game.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I have read a few people mention recently how much they have liked Circle of Protection:Red. I gotta say that my last experience with that card is very long ago. But the consensus back then, and what I myself experienced, was that having to keep mana open - and not just one - was a real problem. Games against Burn and UR Delver don't tend to go long, so the mana you spend to cast the CoP and then the mana kept open is like a huge tax on your ability to maneuver. I don't know how players are having positive experiences, and I would love to hear about them.
As a red player on the other side, I recall winning through a CoP by using my burn to keep their creatures down until the white player left too few lands open for some reason. Then I would unload Lightning Bolt to force him to tap his last land, then Price of Progress, Price of Progress, Fireblast, game!..or something like that. These spells are instants too. That means that the white player has still more headwinds. As the burn player, you can spend your mana at the end of your opponent's turn to force CoP activations. Then untap to go to town. D+T on the other hand likes to spend its mana on its own main phase (Port is terrible here), so it loses the battle of maneuverability.
Kor Firewalker really feels like a gem here. How has it been bad exactly? If you want something to tutor for, I would expect Warmth to serve you better.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
We drove about 7.5 hours from st. louis to play. I sold cards instead. We talked about it in the car, and i told him vs a meta full of bolts/plows/cruises, plus running spirit of the labyrinth, SoFaI might be worse off than a SoWaP. I was right, multiple opponents couldn't resolve cruises because it would lethal them.
Edit: also we wanted 4 containment priests in the list but couldn't get our hands on all of them. last round he fought vs dredge with containment priest. considering this is one of my main testing partners, and i've been playing dredge about a decade now, he knew exactly what to do. the matchup was just laughable. Blake's not on the source, sorry. The deck is literally D+T splashing for Choke and Teeg. I hope this helps.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Finn
Kor Firewalker really feels like a gem here. How has it been bad exactly? If you want something to tutor for, I would expect
Warmth to serve you better.
While I can't speak from anywhere near the amount of experience that can offer incontrovertible proof of anything (except perhaps of my meager skill at Magic) I noticed the following in the few games I played versus UR: games ran long, Firewalker when drawn late was not spectacular, COP drawn early was terrible.
Now, how often will all these things happen? I don't know, I need to test a great deal more to say exactly. You point about COP is 100% correct, if the Burn player gets time to set up, he or she can overwhelm your mana. Then again, if the Burn player gets time to set up, he or she can overwhelm a Firewalker as well. I think both have some very critical flaws, which is why I felt like I wanted both effects. If they nut draw you and kill you quickly, there is a fair chance that neither Firewalker or COP would save you, which is why I focused my thinking on how to grind out games versus them.
I am not trying to say that Firewalker is bad, in fact, I was advocating adding a second to my own list. I am not (yet) convinced that COP is bad. In all the games I've played versus UR, they tend to empty their hands quickly. If we keep pressure on them, they shouldn't have the time needed to go completely over the top of the COP, or at least, that's what I am thinking. Fact is, I don't have enough data to be certain at this point. I've played Warmth in the past and there is a good chance you are right in that it might be a better overall choice (think of having both a Firewalker and Warmth out does make me kind of happy in my pants).
Why I chose COP over Warmth was the grindy games where I wanted to be sure I could win races by nullifying the chance they had of just top decking a Price and melting my face. This is probably because I purposely choose to not play around a Price by not playing lands. I will not hold all my non-basics, besides a useless Wasteland, just because there is the possibility of a Price. This is probably a critical misplay, but I feel like often Price wins the game for them, lands held back or lands played out, because they do run Artifact removal, so leaning to heavily on Vial can be dangerous. Often I make bad choices as to what to play around, so this might be a fundamentally wrong way to approach the matchup. I do know that they often expect decks to stop playing lands in face of the threat. In my mind I want to make them have it every time rather than not play my game.
In a way, COP was part of the reason I was interested in a Land Tax build, in over a year of playing this deck, I still never have enough Plains. This might just be cascading bad ideas, but I want to try it, I think.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hey, first time poster here. I lurk around a lot but for some reason never commented in this board! I visit the MTGS DnT thread though.
I tested two Kor Firewalker in the sideboard yesterday against UR Delver and Burn. I can't say they're that good in the UR matchup because the gain life only triggers when a red spell is cast, and they don't even run that many, most of their spells are blue card manipulation/cantrips. Sure the pro red can block their... Swiftspears, and that's it. I'm not saying it doesnt have any effect, but in the UR Delver matchup their usefulness isn't as big and dramatic as to warrant a sideboard slot, and certainly not two. Against URW and Grixis flavors? Even less. Against Burn the card is quite magnificent, comes early and can certainly stabilize the board by himself. I actually like Firewalker more than CoP:Red in the Burn matchup because, as Finn said, having to leave mana open is something you certainly can't afford to do in a game where the early turns determine the outcome of the whole game. CoP:Red also only prevents damage to you, not to your creatures, and sometimes it's more important to keep that Stoneforge Mystic alive so she can drop Batterskull, or that Thalia alive so she can swing with Jitte. But I still run one CoP in my sideboard, because it's tutorable (against Burn) and only requires one slot, so it's very easy to add to a sideboard and kinda does its work, but you certainly can't rely on it.
At the end of the day, the best way to deal with Burn is still the old method of Mom into Thalia into Jitte swing for lots of life. Burn isn't even a particularly hard matchup, but UR Delver certainly can take a series off you if you keep a greedy hand. The MVP of the matchup is still Thalia, followed by Sword to Plowshares. I think the best way to pad that matchup isn't the red hate route, but rather board in more creature removal. They don't pack enough burn spells to win the game alone, and out creatures often force the opponent to waste bolts into them. The problem is that turn one Delver that flips and starts hitting for 3 extremely fast. Keep in mind that DnT only packs 4 removal spells in the maindeck and that's certainly not enough for the matchup unless you get the nut draw of 3 StPs in the first 2 or 3 turns, and that isn't going to happen every time. I actually like Sunlance a lot in the matchup, it hits flipped Delvers and Swiftspears and Young Pyromancers, and doesn't force you to pay life like Gut Shot or Dismember does. Also Vial is way more important that it seems, as with a 2 or 3 counter Vial untapped you force them to play more conservatively and it increases your chances of stretching the game until you can stabilize.
In my experience I would still side SoFaI out even when the color protections are very good in the matchup, as the Sword is way too slow and can't come out and equip in turn 4 without a Stoneforge Mystic. The bolt and the extra card are very nice but it doesn't gain you life and it's going to be narrower than Jitte every time so it never gets fetched as a first choice, and in a fast game you want to be as efficient as possible with the free slots in your maindeck. The deck doesn't need many changes against UR, mine are usually -3 Revoker -1 SoFaI -1 Resto -1 Dust Bowl +2 Sunlance +3 SotL +1 CoP:Red. SotL gets bolted immediately but it's still 3 less damage to your face and if it doesn't get bolted it can slow down the game considerably.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Would it not be worth considering running an extra Jitte? sure, we have tutors, but as Frenadol mentioned, our best plan vs burn is to stick the stick to a stick and just jab until we have enough counters to be happy, so giving ourselves another shot to hit it seems decent. They're probably also planning on removing at least 1 jitte/batterskull over the course of the game so having backup could actually be relevant. Its also obviously insanely good vs UR.
vs UR: I always found extra removal in the SB to be exactly what I needed vs the old UWR and BUG Delver; I was running Path but now UR is running enough basics to make that a bad idea so I guess we're back to Sunlance, although I'm not stoked about it. Removal is good vs Burn too as you pretty much HAVE to get rid of Eidolon or you're just toast.
None of these options seem like Slam Dunks, unfortunately...
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
The problem I have with relying upon equipment is that most Red-based decks are sideboarding some number of Smash to Smithereens, or other Artifact removal spell. The reason I like Firewalker and either COP or Warmth is that they really don't have any answers to them. Well, mono-Red would have no answers. I played against someone actually playing Vapor Snag in a UR deck, but that seems really uncommon. There is no way for them to interact with a White enchantment, besides trying to counter it.
What is a little frightening is that some of these UR decks are now playing Electrickery in the board. That is definitely not good news for us. We'll have to see how they develop their boards going forward and perhaps change accordingly. I feel like the UR matchup is really critical right now and that will probably be the most played deck at the GP.
It seems like no one really wants to talk about it, but I am not making it to the GP because of real-life things, so this Friday I am thinking of trying a Land Tax build. Anyone feel like a number other than 2 Land Tax would be better? Or is running it just a bad idea?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
In my experience testing with it, Firewalker > COP
Can be vialed, gain life and is simply amazing.
Got 2 in my board for this weekend.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayradis
In my experience testing with it, Firewalker > COP
Can be vialed, gain life and is simply amazing.
Got 2 in my board for this weekend.
I think if I were to play at the GP, my board would be:
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Sunlance
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Cataclysm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
I think winning the UR matchup is really important to be able to do well at this event.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I like Firewalker better than CoP Red simply because CoP Red is too slow for UR Delver, which is the most common deck in the meta. Warmth is also fine, though I wouldn't bring it in against UR Delver, only Burn.
I top 32'd Eternal Weekend after losing my win and in for top 8 in Round 9, and I went 4-0 against UR Delver on the day.
I am changing my list considerably in both the main and side, but my sideboard cards for UR are probably going to be:
2 Absolute Law (IMO better against Pyroclasm, Forked Bolt, Electrickery as bolts to the face aren't as relevant as bolts to your entire team)
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ratchet Bomb
Yes, D&T does play 12 1-CMC spells (Vial, Swords, and Mom), but we cannot cast Chalice on turn 1, so typically we can cast a 1-CMC on T1 or T2 and jam CotV on T2 or T3 depending on the situation. There is simply no better card in the format against their deck with 30 1 CMC spells. Chalice won me multiple games against delver lists, and they have to keep Force of Will in against you and have it, or they just lose the game.
Chalice is also amazing against Elves, Burn, Storm, and Reanimator.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Its almost 3 am and I'm having this crazy thought that I might play D & T this weekend. It just seems so well positioned right now. UR players are definitely bringing in Electrickery but I was surprised at how poorly that matchup felt from the UR perspective. They will assuredly bring in Pithing Needle and maybe Null Rod do we bother trying to answer those cards?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I just went 5-0 against uwr stoneblade if it helps.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
endqwerty
I just went 5-0 against uwr stoneblade if it helps.
With Delver's or the list that recently won the SCG Open?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rlesko
With Delver's or the list that recently won the SCG Open?
Stoneblade is the UWR Dig Through Time list, Rudy plays I imagine. The other is UWR Delver.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Stoneblade has the digs. Stoneblade is not the delver list.
Overall i did well against uwr stoneblade and uwr delver. Had more trouble with the delver deck because of the quicker clock and forked bolts. Infect was also annoying because of the immediate threats that come out quickly. Blighted agent was probably the most annoying card. Best I could hope for was turn 1 vial into turn 2 swords with a turn 3 vial in stoneforge while spending my mana somehow. The matchup against infect seem to be how quickly you can establosh a board presence with jitte out. Once jitte is out life is much easier.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Good luck to all the Death & Taxes pilots this weekend at GP New Jersey! And more importantly, have fun!
:tongue:
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Do note Caleb Durward's most recent article on CFB. No Dazes, TONS of burn spells.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
absolute law is pretty nice vs UR delver if you are willing to go that far
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hello,
I usually lurk here and just read. I've been playing D&T for a while now and don't think I'll ever take it apart. I got to play in GP New Jersey this weekend and managed to make it to 12-2 before I lost my win-and-in to Dan Jordan to finish right on the cusp at 32nd.
I played this list:
9x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
3x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Flagstones of Trokair
4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Mother of Runes
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Aven Mindsensor
SIDEBOARD
3x Containment Priest
1x Council's Judgment
1x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x grafdiggers cage
2x kor firewalker
1x sun lance
2x cataclysm
1x pithing needle
1x manriki
I played, in order:
Day 1
Burn (0-2), Elves (2-0), Bant lands/farmville (2-0), Monoblack Pox (2-0), UWR delver/blade w/true name (2-1), 4 color stoneblade without red and heavy green for ??? (1-2), U/R Delver (2-1), Storm (2-0), Burn (2-0)
Day two
D&T (2-1), BUG Delver (2-1)
Round 3 I wanted to touch on:
UWR Delver Blade (2-1) this guy was a class act. We had three awesome games, went to time. I missed a jitte trigger that would have allowed lethal damage and could only get him to 2 on turn 4 of 5. He conceded to me in turn 5 and let me take a run at it. I am very thankful.
Sneak and Show (2-1), Sneak and Show (2-1), U/R Delver (1-2)
All in all a good time. I used every card in the sideboard multiple times. If I could change anything, I would cut a phyrexian revoker for a 2nd minscensor in the main. Bird-wizard did work all day and at least trys to trade with delver. I will also be working on find something (BRimaz) to take the spot of SOFI. I never wanted it any match.
I might also switch RIP with Relic
My strategy for the U/R delver matchup: Side out revoker, vial, batterskull . Side in sun lance, RIP, containment priest, kor firewalker, ethersworn!!!!<- best card in the match.
Don't even try to play with their mana unless you have nothing to do. Don't waste them you'd rather have the lands. (and it feeds cruise)
Jam creatures and run them out of cards. D&T creatures are just better than UR delver creatures and you have more of them. Save you removal for Young pyromancer and try to fight delver with flyers until you have to sunlance/STP them. This worked well for me in testing and in rounds until I punted by forgetting about electricery damage on ethersworn and blocked a 1/1.......such a bad feeling.
Cavern on Soldier does work on KOR, thalia, birmaz and turning off their smash to smithereens by siding out artifacts for blockers and threats is very good. I found that stoneforge, grab jitte, then never deploy it unless you're gauranteed a connection is awesome. They'll float smash for turn and turns is all D&T needs.
Hot tech from the D&T mirror guy: Jotun Grunt is a house in the U/R delver mirror. two burn spells or they never get to cruise!
Thanks for reading and to everyone that was there to make this a great event.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Colin
Hello,
I usually lurk here and just read. I've been playing D&T for a while now and don't think I'll ever take it apart. I got to play in GP New Jersey this weekend and managed to make it to 12-2 before I lost my win-and-in to Dan Jordan to finish right on the cusp at 32nd.
I played this list:
9x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
3x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Flagstones of Trokair
4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Mother of Runes
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Aven Mindsensor
SIDEBOARD
3x Containment Priest
1x Council's Judgment
1x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x grafdiggers cage
2x kor firewalker
1x sun lance
2x cataclysm
1x pithing needle
1x manriki
I played, in order:
Day 1
Burn (0-2), Elves (2-0), Bant lands/farmville (2-0), Monoblack Pox (2-0), UWR delver/blade w/true name (2-1), 4 color stoneblade without red and heavy green for ??? (1-2), U/R Delver (2-1), Storm (2-0), Burn (2-0)
Day two
D&T (2-1), BUG Delver (2-1)
Round 3 I wanted to touch on:
UWR Delver Blade (2-1) this guy was a class act. We had three awesome games, went to time. I missed a jitte trigger that would have allowed lethal damage and could only get him to 2 on turn 4 of 5. He conceded to me in turn 5 and let me take a run at it. I am very thankful.
Sneak and Show (2-1), Sneak and Show (2-1), U/R Delver (1-2)
All in all a good time. I used every card in the sideboard multiple times. If I could change anything, I would cut a phyrexian revoker for a 2nd minscensor in the main. Bird-wizard did work all day and at least trys to trade with delver. I will also be working on find something (BRimaz) to take the spot of SOFI. I never wanted it any match.
I might also switch RIP with Relic
My strategy for the U/R delver matchup: Side out revoker, vial, batterskull . Side in sun lance, RIP, containment priest, kor firewalker, ethersworn!!!!<- best card in the match.
Don't even try to play with their mana unless you have nothing to do. Don't waste them you'd rather have the lands. (and it feeds cruise)
Jam creatures and run them out of cards. D&T creatures are just better than UR delver creatures and you have more of them. Save you removal for Young pyromancer and try to fight delver with flyers until you have to sunlance/STP them. This worked well for me in testing and in rounds until I punted by forgetting about electricery damage on ethersworn and blocked a 1/1.......such a bad feeling.
Cavern on Soldier does work on KOR, thalia, birmaz and turning off their smash to smithereens by siding out artifacts for blockers and threats is very good. I found that stoneforge, grab jitte, then never deploy it unless you're gauranteed a connection is awesome. They'll float smash for turn and turns is all D&T needs.
Hot tech from the D&T mirror guy: Jotun Grunt is a house in the U/R delver mirror. two burn spells or they never get to cruise!
Thanks for reading and to everyone that was there to make this a great event.
what will the preist do for your u/r delver match since it doesnt stop pyromancer?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim111589
what will the preist do for your u/r delver match since it doesnt stop pyromancer?
Only thing I coulkd see for it is that it's a 2/2 flash body and could sometimes surprise an attacking Pyromancer.
Other than that, I don't see what it could do.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim111589
what will the preist do for your u/r delver match since it doesnt stop pyromancer?
It doesn't die to electrickery or two for one with forked bolt. It blocks tokens and sometimes let's you live the dream of flickerwisp exile. Cavern on human is relevant and while faking stone forge activation you can spend the mana to flash him. Mostly: it blocks better than aether vial
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
So, yet another "big" win for a UWR. Question, how would you guys feel about swapping Sword of Fire and Ice for Sword of War and Peace?
I feel like in a vacuum, Fire and Ice is clearly superior. However, if the main removal we see is StP and Bolt, War and Peace offers some very nice protection. Also, War and Peace provides lifegain and a potentially faster clock. I feel the choice is very meta dependent and also dependent on how many Spirit of the Labyrinth we are running. Thoughts?
Also, I tried out Land Tax at my local on Friday and went 3-0-1. Land Tax was largely irrelevant in the result, although in one long game it did net me 7 Plains, but the effect of that could be anywhere from good to insignificant. I might try it out some more though.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Colin
My strategy for the U/R delver matchup: Side out revoker, vial, batterskull . Side in sun lance, RIP, containment priest, kor firewalker, ethersworn!!!!<- best card in the match.
Don't even try to play with their mana unless you have nothing to do. Don't waste them you'd rather have the lands. (and it feeds cruise)
Jam creatures and run them out of cards. D&T creatures are just better than UR delver creatures and you have more of them. Save you removal for Young pyromancer and try to fight delver with flyers until you have to sunlance/STP them. This worked well for me in testing and in rounds until I punted by forgetting about electricery damage on ethersworn and blocked a 1/1.......such a bad feeling.
Cavern on Soldier does work on KOR, thalia, birmaz and turning off their smash to smithereens by siding out artifacts for blockers and threats is very good. I found that stoneforge, grab jitte, then never deploy it unless you're gauranteed a connection is awesome. They'll float smash for turn and turns is all D&T needs.
Hot tech from the D&T mirror guy: Jotun Grunt is a house in the U/R delver mirror. two burn spells or they never get to cruise!
Thanks for reading and to everyone that was there to make this a great event.
Were you the guy with the absolutely beautiful D&T deck? You should post a picture :)
I'm mostly a UR player and I agree on definitely taking revoker out, but taking out all vials seems strange. That card can cause such a headache, granted it is answered by Pithing Needle, I will probably always Force of Will a vial if I'm on the draw. I can see the logic in Batterskull (it is slow, and SFM will likely eat a bolt instantly), so you will almost never be able to cheat it into play. Ethersworn, Kor Firewalker, and the 5th removal is probably enough, though you were the guy sitting at 12-2 with a win and inf or top 8, while I was on the sidelines. Just trying to give the opposite perspective.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
you already play Jitte, and Batterskull, don't you only need something to avoid artifact distruction to win?
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[DTB] Death and Taxes
First time poster on this site. Thanks for all your great ideas and contribution. It has helped me quite a bit in recent hard times dominated by blue. But as many have concluded, I do find that d and t is actually positioned well despite ancestral recall being reprinted.
My first question is whether Aven Mindcensor should be considered much more now that uwr stoneblade has been on the upswing. The flash flier seems like a good place to be to combat search heavy decks while having game against delver.
I only ask because the list here in Japan that went top 8 in a 330 man tourney ran two copies in main. Perhaps it is now much better now that -1-1 effects are going down, though we would have to be cautious about fork bolt still.
Thoughts will be helpful.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hi everyone!
I was able to make the trip to GPNJ from St. Louis Missouri this last weekend, and had an absolute blast playing D&T (Thanks to my friend Dan who let me borrow his beautiful deck). I've had some practice with the deck between smaller tounaments like IQs, but this was my first time in a major tournament piloting the deck, and my first GP for that matter too. I ended up 7-1-1 after day one, and 9-5-1 overall.
For starters, here is my list:
11x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
3x Karakas
1x Cavern of Souls
4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Mother of Runes
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Mirran Crusader
SIDEBOARD
2x Containment Priest
1x Council's Judgment
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Grafdiggers cage
2x Kor firewalker
1x Gut Shot
1x Cataclysm
1x Pithing needle
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
1x Ratchet Bomb
First I will give a quick run down of the match ups, and then go into more detail about the games. Finally I will discuss what I liked/disliked, and my general take away from the tournament. Enjoy!
Day 1
U/G Infect (2-1), U/R Delver (2-0), Jeski Control (2-1), Miracles (2-0), Tezzert Helminator (2-0), D&T (1-1-1), Shardless BUG (1-2), U/R Delver (2-1), Miracles (2-0).
Day two
RUG Threshold Delver (1-2), Miracles (1-2), Show and Tell (0-2), Reanimator (2-0), Jeski Control (0-2), Miracles (2-1).
Now for the in depth review of the games, this is all coming from memory so I apologize now if it seems a little scrambled.
Match 1 (U/G Infect)
Usually a fair match up for us, luckily Dan (my friend who let me borrow this deck) is a fantastic Infect Pilot and a devotee of Tom Ross. Needless to say I have had a ton of games on this match up. Played around perice/daze when I could, and gummed up the board enough to slow down his glistener elf plan. After that assemble jitte and pray then don't have krosan grip in hand post board (this is why you aggressively kill EVERYTHING with infect). Hold wastes for flying infect baddies, swords for unblockable infect baddies, and you should be on your way to a match win.
Win (2-1)
Match 2 (U/R Delver)
Not much to say here. This pilot was pretty new and it showed on his delver play. He couldn't beat batterskull game 1, and double kor firewalker did him in game 2. Decided to do a casual grudge match so I could help him with his delver triggers (reveal for trigger, fectch away card, etc.), and it turns out he just bought into legacy a week ago. Always glad to help new players =)
Win (2-0)
Match 3 (Jeski Control)
With the game one lead of island ponder, island brainstorm, I had him on Omni-Tell and try for the race against time. He eventually plays a tundra and SFM, but is too far behind on the board to interact.
Game 2 is a bit more of the same, although after resolving a DTT he finds a Verdict. From there he stumbles after I vail in another SFM and assemble vultron, and pull away another win. Thankfully didn't see TNN in his deck.
Win (2-0)
Match 4 (Miricles)
I find myself aganst a pretty good miricles piolt, but had a very nice start of T1 Vial, T2 Thalia (eats a force) EOT vail mom, T3 my EOT he brainstorms I vail Spirit of the Lab. From there Spirit goes all the way (dem 3 point beats) while I hold a vial on two for phyrexian rev if he plays top. Game 2 I get needle on top and flood the board. Get a batterskull and sword on the field with him down to 11 when he naturals a terminus on his 2nd main. His EOT I vial Mirrian Crusader, equip SOFI and hit for 12. <3
Win (2-0)
Match 5 (Helminator)
This was a pleasant surprise, as he T0 leyline of the voids me, and I crack a smile with two phyrexian revokers in hand. G1 he has a pretty explosive start with T3 Tezzert AOB into swing with a 5/5, but after a revoker on Tezz and a flickerwisp to reset his 5/5 I get the game. *Warning* Misplays Incoming. Game 2 I am happy to see a way to shut off both the helm and thropter combo with RIP and Revoker. I lead with a RIP on two and immediately realize my mistake as he gives me a weird look (I had assumed he would SB out the Helm-combo, silly me). He TezzertsAOB which I vial in Revoker in response. Then he big daddy Tezz -4 for helm and I am looking really dumb with a RIP on the board. Luckily the heart of the cards was with me and I ripped a flickerwisp off the top to reset my revoker, and get the game.
Win (2-0)
Match 6 (D&T)
Pretty boring match, games 1 and 2 are decided by who gets jitte online first after both moms get STP. Game three is a massive stall for me, we both have 2+ moms, 2+ SFM, but he has Manriki. I am forced to stall the board with revokers, and attempt to win with fliers. Eventually we draw while we are both 20+ life thanks to repetitive batterskull trades.
Draw (1-1-1)
Match 7 (Shardless BUG)
This is a pretty rough match-up, as it is near impossible to match their card advantage. I played it as a race, but this opponent had main deck Toxic Deluge witch blew me out game 1, and golgri charms post side which made me cautious to go too aggressive. Was only able to win game 2 due to rev. on Liliana, and a sworded up Serra avenger. Game 3 I get Wilt-leaf into play off a Hymn to Tourach, but due to some shardless into abrupt decayx2, can't clutter the board enough to save it from Liliana -2.
Loss (1-2)
Match 8 (U/R Delver)
Finally another delver deck. This is my game where Brimaz showed why he is king. Game 1 was pretty easy with a vialed in Spirit on a brainstorm, and a t4 batterskull. Game 2 was a blowout his way with two smash to smithereens for SOFI and batterskull. Game 3 was one of the more challenging games I had in the tournament, on a weak keep of 6, T1 play a vial into a force, T2 a mom into a bolt. Port T3, and T4 I play brimaz with a karakus up with nothing but lands in hand. For the rest of the game I try to landlock him with ports and wastes, all while keeping karakus up for brimaz, and eventually get there. He shows me a loaded hand and felt lucky getting that game.
win (2-1)
Match 9 (Miracles)
Finally to the last match of the day, which decides if I get to advance or not to day two. I see a T1 top and let out a audible groan. Luckily due to some tight play and the power of vial + equipment I am able to squeeze out wins in both games 1 and 2. I was never able to lock out the top, so had to play to the board very lightly, winning game one with a mom + sworded Serra avenger through a lethal flock of angels. Game 2 purely through threat density and him not finding top.
Win (2-0)
Okay going to take a break here for now, I should have day two and my final thoughts out sometime in the next few hours.
To be continued.