[Deck] Dredge

I don't think Mental Misstep will get the hammer. The main reason is that WotC doesn't really give a shit about Combo decks, and their beloved aggro and aggro/control archtypes were really improved by MMS.

Still, the card was really format warping, and every single deck is trying to either run it, or play arround it (like we did, with those new techs).

BUT, if I'm wrong, T.E.S and ANT will make a huge comeback, because Innstrad gave them a new bomb: Past in Flames. And, as 4eak said, we'll have to speed up.

So I'd try the good old LED lists with FKZ + Sphinx. I've been testing it lately, and I've found the 8 Leyline sideboard build pretty strong. Something like this:

Lands [12]
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

Dredgers [12]
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp

Draw [9]
4 Breakthrough
3 Street Wraith
2 Deep Analysis

Business [14]
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
2 Dread Return

Creatures [13]
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
3 Ichorid
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths

Sideboard [15]
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Well, LED lists have only 12 lands, and only 8 can produce Green mana, so you can't rely on Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim/Ray of Revelation with consistency. So the way to go is Leyline of Sanctity, which is a real catchall (prevents Bojuka Bog, Crypt, Relic tap, Ravenous Trap, Nihil Spellbomb).

Leyline of the Void is mainly to keep your bridges safe, but has several other uses. And at last, Chain of Vapor, which can be cast off Cephalid Coliseum.

It was pretty good testing, although LED is a little inconsistent. Turn 1 kills happened, Turn 2 kills were common and Turn 3 kills were mandatory.

Any thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

Don't hold your breath.

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Well, I'd rather be prepared than be caught off guard. I don't care much if it happens or not, as long as I have versions good enough for any.

Hey guys here is my preMM LED list. It was built for speed:

4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Careful Study
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Dread Return
4 Putrid Imp
2 Ichorid
3 Deep Analysis
4 Breakthrough
4 Underground River
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Ancestor's Chosen
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Blazing Archon
1 Woodfall Primus
3 Pithing Needle

The sideboard needs some updating, but this build kills on game one. Goldfished with it a lot and It has a pretty consistent turn 2 win. The obvious thing about this list that y'all haters might want to hate is the two ichorids. Well this list runs more like a combo deck, racing ANT and high tide, and the ichorids are just a fallback. I could see adding one or two more in the SB though.

So yeah this list is built to fight Combo, let me know what y'all think.

So, can you or can you not discard your entire hand with one Phantasmagorian?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indefinite.soul

So, can you or can you not discard your entire hand with one Phantasmagorian?

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If you have six cards in your hand, yes. Activate twice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gui

Well, I'd rather be prepared than be caught off guard. I don't care much if it happens or not, as long as I have versions good enough for any.

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That's the problem there isn't a best build for Dredge. Allthough it seems there where only a few flex-spots and the list was almost optimal (the 8-dork lists) 4eak showed that there is alot of freedom within the Dredge lists.

I think Parcher always played an tweaked version of his LED-list everytime. It's important to know how the meta looks and which cards you can use to exploit the meta: LED version, LED-less version, Landless version of a hybrid. And then you have to fill in the last spots.

I'm trying to mix LED into the Hybrid version of 4eak for example.

.Benie.

Hey guys Im trying to help a friend tune up his dredge list. Any advice on this?

LED Dredge (60)

Lands 12
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
4 cephalid Colliseum

Dredgers 12
4 golgari grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 golgari thug

Business 17
4 bridge from Below
4 cabal therapy
4 ichorid
3 narcomoeba
2 dread Return

Draw/discard 18
4 LED
4 putrid imp
4 breakthrough
3 streetwraith
2 deep Analysis
1 phantasmagorian (or 4th streetwraith?)

DR targets 1
1 flamekin zealot

Sideboard 15
4 Firestorm
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Ok so this list has 20 black creatures, 4 ichorid and only 3 narcomoeba. My main question is, why 4 narcomoeba in the majority of lists I see vs 4 ichorid? Is this because many lists dont run enough black creatures to feed 4 ichorids? Also the misers phantasmagorian is acting as a 5th pimp. Is it worth even running this guy or should we up the streetwraiths to 4?
Lastly hows the board look? Thanks in advance.

Narcomoeba gives you a body while you are in the middle of the combo, and you'll need it in order to resolve a Theraphy or a DR.
You need 3 creatures to resolve a DR, and you can't really trust the discard-dudes, so it seems a bit risky running only 3 Narcomoebas.

^This. Dredge doesn't play brainstorm and with LED dredge you try and win in one turn. If you have one Narco in hand then you have to wait one more turn to win, with bringing back an ichorid. Unless your putrid imp didn't get misstepped.

I think number 1 sacred rule of Dredge is: Don't play less than 4 Narcomoebas.

The main reason was posted above: it gives you a body in the middle of combo, so you won't have to pass the turn to bring back the goodies. Especially on a LED list, that tries to maximize speed, via FKZ reanimation. I'd swap that phantasmagorian for the 4th Moeba. I'd also recommend droping 2 Nature's Claim, 1 Ray, and 1 Grudge to fit 4 Chain of Vapor in that sideboard. Only 8 lands can produce green mana in LED lists, which is very, very low resources.

Just rebuilt my dredge deck after a year of playing ANT, today I got rocked by scavaging ooze on turn 2 three games in a row. Is there any tech other than firestorm or praying you can resolve a darkblast twice?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soggy_oggy

Just rebuilt my dredge deck after a year of playing ANT, today I got rocked by scavaging ooze on turn 2 three games in a row. Is there any tech other than firestorm or praying you can resolve a darkblast twice?

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Pithing needle. Also, breakthrough can fill up the graveyard to point where the ooze can't do much.

I will not double post.

Good riddance, Mental Misstep.

yep...

Now we will see if Manaless Dredge will still be played, or if it all goes back to Tribe / PImp Dredge...

I already stuffed my PImps and Tribes back in the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gui

In a hypothetical post MM ban scenario, would you rather play Phantasmagorian+Wraith or PImp + Tribes?

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Could I say I said so?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

Don't hold your breath.

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I didn't, still happened anyways...


I think I'm going to keep testing my firestorm version and 4eak's version, but yeah, welcome back, Tireless Imps!

Dredge:

Creatures :

4 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Golgari Thug
3 Bloodghast
1 Sun Titan

Spells :

4 Cabal Theraphy
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge From Below
3 Careful Study
2 Dread Return

Lands :

4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass

SB:

1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair
3 Nature's Claim
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Ray of Revelation
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Wispmare
1 Terrastodon

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this was the deck im currently brewing for now.

Sup guys! Misstep got banned, and that's good news. Our Breakthrough/Dork is much safer now. Moreover, Goblins/CounterTop/Storm are coming back, which is probably good news, because we can deal with the first 2 easily.

The Storm matchup was always luck-dependant, even with LED lists. They usually go off turn 2~3, and so do we. Still, if they get back a good percentage of the new metagame, we can always put in some Unmask and Sadistic Hypnotist in sideboard.

I've disentombed my beloved set of foil PImps and Tribes from the shallow grave and they're back activity.

The list:

Lands [14]
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Tarnished Citadel

Dumpers [13]
4 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Darkblast

Win and Recover [8]
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough

Dorks [8]
4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

Mommy and Daddy [7]
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

Powerhouses [10]
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge From Below
2 Dread Return

Sideboard [15]
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Terastodon
1 Sadistic Hypnotist/Realm Razer/Flame-kin Zealot
1 Ichorid

People will start to pack Mindbreak Trap and stuff in sideboard, and compress the already tiny space for gy-hate which is PRETTY GOOD for us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Sup guys! Misstep got banned, and that's good news. Our Breakthrough/Dork is much safer now. Moreover, Goblins/CounterTop/Storm are coming back, which is probably good news, because we can deal with the first 2 easily.

The Storm matchup was always luck-dependant, even with LED lists. They usually go off turn 2~3, and so do we. Still, if they get back a good percentage of the new metagame, we can always put in some Unmask and Sadistic Hypnotist in sideboard.

I've disentombed my beloved set of foil PImps and Tribes from the shallow grave and they're back activity.

*snip*

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I was basically about to say the same thing, although I do feel that an Angel of Despair or Terastodon may warrant an inclusion into the main deck. With misstep gone, I see the rise of CBTop and Etutor based decks. It could be inconsequential though, as by the time CB gets online, they should be dead anyways :tongue: Maybe I'm just paranoid, but Ensnaring Bridge is just such a beating.

Also, Hypnotist and Razer should be all-stars. Combo and Lands(till) will be everywhere, so both of these guys feel like auto-includes. Non-Blue aggro just folds to Elesh, so that really just leaves FKZ on the chopping block.

I feel that both FKZ and Hypnotist serve the same general purpose, dismantling combo decks. Weather it's racing them or destroying their hand, you get the idea. However, I really think that FKZ belongs in LED lists, which focus more on speed then stability, and Hypnotists fits better in our slower, more consistant LEDless lists. Maybe the "flavor" blinds me here, but hey, that's just my 2c. :cool: