[Deck] Imperial Painter

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Originally Posted by drude1

Yes, all of those plus I side it in against Miracles as it's a more difficult combo for them to deal with and more Miracles players have 1-2 copies of snapcaster these days. Helm is also very good at milling their deck even without the RIP out.
I'm still really having trouble with the Miracles matchup though. I played against it in the daily last night and if they get down the early counterbalance it's really hard. My secret tech of word of seizing definitely helps and in the second game I had a top out and bet I looked at 15 cards without seeing one (of 2), which would have won me the game against an ultimate Jace. Still, does anyone have total confidence in their Miracles matchup and, if so, how? The problem is, this is such a prevalent deck right now that if the matchup is that bad then it's not even worth bringing this deck to a real tourney. My only hope is that 12-post gets really popular to kill miracles and then we can prey on them.

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My friends all play miracles so it's actually the match up I've had the most testing against. I dont feel like it's awful but it's certainly a deck I'd rather avoid. Largely my game plan against them plays out one of two ways. If I can combo them extremely quickly, I always, always go for it. I ignored virtually whatever they are doing, regardless of mana open etc (very different from how I play twin in modern). They have 2-4 swords and force as their only real outs to this and often they just can't do anything. Maybe I'm just a bit lucky but I find that, especially in game ones, to have a lot of success with this. I'm sure you play similarly though. My plan B if I can't combo them right away is all about blasts. I do everything I can to blow up and counter top/counterbalance. Also sounds pretty straightforward right? The key here though is never to get fooled by moon. Blood Moon is straight awful in this match up. Not so bad that I'd board them all out but the plan of blow everything you have on an early moon almost never works against miracles. Top+a ton of basics and they'll always draw out of it. Also, forwarding my gameplan is always second to holding up as many blasts as I can because if they ever have the turn where they assemble their combo then all the work you did getting yours together is basically wasted time.

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Originally Posted by chrstphrbrnnn

My friends all play miracles so it's actually the match up I've had the most testing against. I dont feel like it's awful but it's certainly a deck I'd rather avoid. Largely my game plan against them plays out one of two ways. If I can combo them extremely quickly, I always, always go for it. I ignored virtually whatever they are doing, regardless of mana open etc (very different from how I play twin in modern). They have 2-4 swords and force as their only real outs to this and often they just can't do anything. Maybe I'm just a bit lucky but I find that, especially in game ones, to have a lot of success with this. I'm sure you play similarly though. My plan B if I can't combo them right away is all about blasts. I do everything I can to blow up and counter top/counterbalance. Also sounds pretty straightforward right? The key here though is never to get fooled by moon. Blood Moon is straight awful in this match up. Not so bad that I'd board them all out but the plan of blow everything you have on an early moon almost never works against miracles. Top+a ton of basics and they'll always draw out of it. Also, forwarding my gameplan is always second to holding up as many blasts as I can because if they ever have the turn where they assemble their combo then all the work you did getting yours together is basically wasted time.

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Ok. Couple of quick questions for
You. How many blasts do you play main/SB? What else do you side in for the MU? Are you still all in on the combo or do you go for alt win cons, eg Koth, rip/helm, etc? I really want to sure up this matchup and would honestly devote a good 5-6 cards to the MU if I knew it would make a big difference. Right now I am playing 5 blasts main but none to bring in from the board, mostly because I wanted to try word of seizing to steal and use their Jaces against them. It seems line I lose to a Jace ultimate 8-10 matches. I'm actually now considering siding in my leylines just to slow Jace down as well. Maybe I should just load up on blasts and jam the combo hard. I will admit I tend to lean on the moon if I can hit it early. I've never loved Koth but if others have good luck with it I would consider trying it again.
Again, this is really the only MU that I absolutely hate seeing (although I don't love any deck with Eldrazi in it). Really want to strengthen my approach.


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Play my shortcake list card for card if you want to beat miracles. 65-70% for the matchup. As long as you focus solely on stopping balance, jace, and angels they can hardly ever beat you.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

Play my shortcake list card for card if you want to beat miracles. 65-70% for the matchup. As long as you focus solely on stopping balance, jace, and angels they can hardly ever beat you.

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Hey, can you post your current list again? Are you still playing a piece of equipment in your main? I really don't like firebolt any more but other than that i think I play a pretty similar list to yours. I'm also running the leylines over the 3sphere, etc but that is kind of a non-issue in this MU. Maybe I just need to max out on blasts, as that seems to give us the best chance.


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Originally Posted by drude1

Hey, can you post your current list again? Are you still playing a piece of equipment in your main? I really don't like firebolt any more but other than that i think I play a pretty similar list to yours. I'm also running the leylines over the 3sphere, etc but that is kind of a non-issue in this MU. Maybe I just need to max out on blasts, as that seems to give us the best chance.


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If I remember correctly, the equipment was Sword of Light and Shadow.

Jack, could you expand a little on why this is good against miracles? It seems to me that it give us a viable beat down plan (making anything pretty much unblockable except by Snappy and Clique) and that if they want to use removal on it, they need to do it in response to the equip. This would make us positive to go off (unless they have Wear//Tear).

Is this the idea or am I missing something big?

I just played against Merfolk. I thought it would be easier. I won 2x1, but chalice, echoing, Hurkyl's Recall and fows were really boring. :D

Forgot to post results from our weekly Thursday night Legacy event.

Round 1: UR Delver (2-0) won
Round 2: Dredge (0-2) lost.....was playing against a friend and I wasn't playing tight.
Round 3: Reanimator (2-0) won
Round 4: Burn (0-2) lost :cry:

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Originally Posted by Tiago

I just played against Merfolk. I thought it would be easier. I won 2x1, but chalice, echoing, Hurkyl's Recall and fows were really boring. :D

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The very first thing you go for is Jaya Ballard..... She's a BEAST in that MU :D

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

Play my shortcake list card for card if you want to beat miracles. 65-70% for the matchup. As long as you focus solely on stopping balance, jace, and angels they can hardly ever beat you.

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Any criteria on hands to keep/ship back in the matchup? odds of drawing into good cards against them? etc?

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Originally Posted by drude1

Ok. Couple of quick questions for
You. How many blasts do you play main/SB? What else do you side in for the MU? Are you still all in on the combo or do you go for alt win cons, eg Koth, rip/helm, etc? I really want to sure up this matchup and would honestly devote a good 5-6 cards to the MU if I knew it would make a big difference. Right now I am playing 5 blasts main but none to bring in from the board, mostly because I wanted to try word of seizing to steal and use their Jaces against them. It seems line I lose to a Jace ultimate 8-10 matches. I'm actually now considering siding in my leylines just to slow Jace down as well. Maybe I should just load up on blasts and jam the combo hard. I will admit I tend to lean on the moon if I can hit it early. I've never loved Koth but if others have good luck with it I would consider trying it again.
Again, this is really the only MU that I absolutely hate seeing (although I don't love any deck with Eldrazi in it). Really want to strengthen my approach.


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I am still playing the pretty standard R/W 75. I've been thinking about the Stoneforge package though, but haven't committed to it yet. Hardcore testing for Jersey starts this week so I'm going to put some time into it. So since I'm on the stock 75, I have 7 blast effects (6/1) so I bring in the 7th and a ratchet bomb post board. I'm on the fence about Koth, I do think that having another wincon is good and a four mana one is pretty solid but I'm just scared of koth as a card because his lacks any synergy and there's no ability to search for him. I usually focus on Jaya if I am trying to win with a different way than the combo. I usually side out at least a moon effect (Magus if I feel they're heavier on the creature removal, sometimes just a regular moon). I do like the bridges because I find angels more threatening than Jace (being heavy on the blast, I do my best to keep Jace out of it) but I'm not sure I like the 3rd bridge so I sometimes choose not to bring it in. It kind of comes down to how much I respect my opponent. If I think they're at all able to lose to moon, I'll leave more in but if I feel like they're going to respect it with basic fetches, I might cut another for another bridge. The only two guaranteed cards are ratchet bomb and the 3rd REB tho.

An interesting idea comes from Brad Nelson's mono red sneak attack though. He played four Rabblemaster in the board and his reasoning was because it's insane against miracles. While this isn't exactly the same for us (since swords is better against our deck than sneak attack), we still have the ability to play this card on turn one and make them have it or lose. Rabble's tokens are far more likely to deal real damage in legacy and he becomes a single card threat that demands removal they'd want to spend against the combo. He's also tutor-able. Might be worth some testing?

Jack just texted me he is in the Top 8 of the open get it Jack!

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive

That Red/Pyroblast Stack...

Oh man and I was worried I missed the match when I saw SCG tweet Jack Kitchen in the quarter finals (40 minutes late)
LOL!

Congrats man

When Dan started to get careless with his force of wills I was so hoping that Koth would somehow pull it out.

Hilarious match to watch, good job Jack.

The early painter might have been a bit aggressive. I would have just kept the mana open. Great work overall! I look forward to a report followed by many of the same 10 questions regarding your side boarding and card choice over and over and over....

Jack got 4th? I missed it and just saw the finals. They said dan beat a painter in the semi's which I assume is Jack?

aaaw man, fell asleep right after the Invitational final..... So close to watch a iPainter player... It's been so long :(

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/act...f26c1c0696.jpg

That feeling when paired against Lands in the semi's

I know that feel, way to go Jack

Congratulations to Jack! Why you put a Sword of Light and Shadow in the sideboard?