Well now that there isn't a flat way to punish people/recoup from for playing hymn/lili I think that the heavy discard will be better, besides the fact that rug does stifle better anyway
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Well now that there isn't a flat way to punish people/recoup from for playing hymn/lili I think that the heavy discard will be better, besides the fact that rug does stifle better anyway
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Angler is still around. Perhaps that's what we want to be running now in the flex slots where we used to run things like Tombstalker, True Name, and Bob.
Yay, Hymn/Lili are playable again! DTT was a really dumb card, glad to see it gone. They should have banned it at the same time as Cruise in all actuality, but later is better than never.
That said token-producing creatures (YP, MMentor) as well as creatures out of Decay-range (e.g. Angler) are here to stay. I think we still want some method of dealing with these guys, either via evasion or versatile removal. Maelstrom Pulse always seemed good as a 1-of in this deck. But definitely in the SB we probably want 2-3 copies of Golgari Charm. It's also good as I expect to see a return of popularity of True-Name Nemesis as well as X/1 creature strategies (elves, DNT, etc.)
I think you're mostly right. I think that we'll lose the Grixis/Esper Delver decks that were tempo-midrange hybrids but keep a slightly stronger (is tier 1.25 a thing?) Ur Delver with Pyromancer and more controlling Grixis/Esper decks Pyromancer/Mentor decks that will use some combination of Night's Whisper, the new 2B draw spell, Jace, and Fact or Fiction to feed the token makers. I don't think that chaining cantrips will be reliable with more Hymns flying around.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcm8
Maybe the result is that BUG is better off going toward more of the control-midrange lists we saw in January-June 2014? They weren't widely played but they were very powerful, putting up 2 or 3 SCG Open Top 8s, at least one top 16, and winning one outright.
Aside Canadian Threshold, Team America is one of my favourite decks of all times, and now with DTT gone, maybe we can play with Hymns again! Joy! Incidentally, I'm attending a tournament on the day after the banning takes effect - and this is what I'm planning to bring:
9 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
(2 more threats)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
/58
I'm missing two creatures (or other threats, I suppose) and I can't wrap my mind on a decent split between Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and True-Name Nemesis. Assume an open metagame, which would you prefer?
I think Tasigur suffers in an open meta because of Karakas. So for your slots I'd go with 1 TNN, 1 Tombstalker or 2 Bobs if you're set on them both being creatures. Once you've committed to maindecking 3 mana spells I'd rather pay the extra B for Flying than deal with a creature that gets chumped as easily as Goyf.
I would honestly bring 2 bobs, to fill need for some more card advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatory
back to the hymn, liliana build.
Fair point. I actually don't own any Bobs at the moment, but I'll surely consider TNN and Tombstalker in the slots. Or maybe I could borrow the Bobs Thanks for your feedback!Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
I think yes, Liliana will be very good again, finally. I am l, however, still in disagreement with playing a list with Hymns. I hate the way the card is. It's awry. It's solid enough for a lot of people, but I'm not one of them. But yeah, Liliana is back. Is merfolk going to decline?
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Whether Hymn or Thoughtseize is better is meta dependent, but Liliana is too powerful not to run and plays poorly with Stifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Monastery Mentor is still a card, the Grixis Delver shell is weakened but not dead; I would be somewhat hesistant about overloading on Liliana. Definitely want to play some, but the old versions that ran 3 are probably too much. Maybe 1 main/1 side.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
ok im happy dtt got banned and happier i never bit the bullet and bought cabal therapys for grixis delver. now i can safely assume bob huang is the delver master. he was really big into bug delver his list b4 dig pushed bug out of a top tier deck is
Lands
2 x Bayou
1 x Tropical Island
4 x Underground Sea
4 x Polluted Delta
4 x Misty Rainforest
4 x Wasteland
1 x Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 x Delver of Secrets // Insectile Aberration
4 x Deathrite Shaman
4 x Tarmogoyf
2 x Dark Confidant
Noncreature Spells
3 x Hymn to Tourach (Wolf)
4 x Daze
3 x Force of Will
4 x Abrupt Decay
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Ponder
2 x Thoughtseize
2 x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
2 x Golgari Charm
3 x Disfigure
1 x Grafdigger's Cage
1 x Vendilion Clique
1 x Null Rod
1 x Liliana of the Veil
1 x Sylvan Library
1 x Pithing Needle
1 x Force of Will
1 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 x Hymn to Tourach (Wolf)
1 x Surgical Extraction
if i was to suit this up what revisions to the deck are to be considered?
also i hate to be that guy but the best players at my LGS are mud and merfolk and i have to skew my board to help beat them any input would be appreciated
Don't play bug if that is ur metaQuote:
Originally Posted by Jo4source
i am that guy that values winning alot:frown:... what deck would you suggest? in addition there are alot of miracles and delver variants in my metaQuote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
My guess would probably be Jund. Grudge for MUD in the board, REBs to kill Merfolk, plus still keep your positves versus Miracles and Delver decks, via Decay and Punishing Fires.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo4source
Jund sounds good for you. Like I said a few posts back, Merfolk isn't a terrible matchup if you've got Hymns and Lilianas - they can't reload easily, they can't kill a Deathrite if he resolves, and you can cast everything off of DRS, Bayou, and Wasteland. Forcing their guys into combat against your Goyfs isn't a winning line for them - and their deck has plenty of artifacts to make him stupid big. MUD is about a 50/50 matchup for the Hymn/Liliana build but the individual games tend to be highly polarized with one of you just ruining the other. Miracles is pretty build dependent from both sides: if they're playing the Ponder build, Hymn/Liliana is slightly less than 50/50 preboard but you can make it basically even postboard. Against the Legend build it's the other way around - slightly favorable preboard and about even postboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo4source
thank you so much for your input and time i am going to keep bug delver together because i love delver decks. i am going to try to master bug.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
im basically a noob and horrendous at playing magic is there any thing i can do to give back to this forum and its members?
Write reports even if you lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo4source
People on here only write reports of them top 8ing. However, its more beneficial if you make a report even if you lose and tell us what cards were good and what sucked
Hey guys,
I played at a GPT today and ended up 3-2. It was good overall. I lost pretty hard to lands, which I was okay with. I didn't expect to see it and payed for it! I'll explain some very last minute deck change decisions I made below.
The List:
Creatures:
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogoyf
Instants/Sorceries
4x Daze
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to Tourach
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Ponder
1x Thoughtseize
[U]Really good three drops
2x Liliana of the Veil
Lands
2x Bayou
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Polluted Delta
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
SIde:
1x Dismember
2x Golgari Charm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x disfigure
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
2x Spell Pierce
1x Sylvan Library
2x Thoughtseize
1x Vendilion Clique
I was planning on running 2 dark confidant instead of the Anglers. But after debating Tombstalker vs Gangler vs Bob the entire way there, I sort of just bet on the 1 black being worth it and went with Angler. I wasn't sure if I wanted another double black spell in my deck, and sometimes only needing 1 black up for Angler meant casting it with a U sea and Trop in play (there were so many wastelands)
Game 1: Death and Taxes (1-2) My opponent goes on to win the GPT haha
R1: Win; I play DRS into turn 2 Hymn and wasteland his Karakas (Fantastic opener, this deck is insane sometimes). Turn 3 I play goyf and beat him to death. I abrupt decayed his Stoneforge and that was it.
R2: I start off fine with Delver, no-flip followed by turn 2 delver (he wasted my second land). Turn 3 no flip and I play Tarmogoyf. Turn 4 both delvers flip, and he plays flickerwisp resetting one. he ends wasteing all my lands and eventually gains momentum.
R3: I Liliana'd Turn 3 into a Wilt-Lief liege with Mom and Phyrexian Obliterator on the field. It didn't go well.
Game 2: Lands (0-2)
R1: He dropped a turn two manabonds and wasted me out of the game. It was insane
R2: I got a goyf and was able to cast an angler on one drs but got shut down by maze of ith and had all my lands destroyed.
Game 3: Jund (2-0) Gurmag Angler won me both games here.
R1: I hymned a bloodbraide on T2 which was nice. He played Turn 3 lili, which I promptly decayed followed by my own lili on turn 4. I was able to control it from there. Gurmag was a house killing a lili and him, it really makes bolt and punishing fire sad.
R2: I played 2 goyfs to match his two goyfs and then dropped an angler on turn 4 or 5 to turn the tide.
Game 4: Jund: (2-1)These were very interactive games but I ultimately just played more threats than him.
R1: We both played lilianas but he was able to bolt mine. We basically traded kill spell for creature back and forth until 2 separate delvers had flipped, been killed and finally a goyf stuck. I managed to hymn and thoughtseize away his bloodbraid elves.
R2: He got multiple wastelands and life from the loam online and I folded pretty quick.
R3: T1 deathrite, T2 Hymn and Wastleland his grove. I disfigure his bob and dropped a goyf followed by gurmag angler. It was good.
Game 5: Tezzerator (2-0)
R1: I abrupt decayed his thopter foundry and played two goyfs and a gurmag angler. He transmuted for an ensaring bridge and locked me down. I resolved a lili and ulted her twice with him resolving a jace before I found a decay for the bridge. I worked through two toxic delgues and a damnation. 3 delvers, 2 goyfs, 2 drs, and both angler were required to win this match. Lili was amazing, he couldn't get anything going. And my topdecks were fine as long as the decay was down there somewhere.
R2: He plays turn 1 chalice on 1 which isnt bad for me at all. I played a turn 2 hymn, into turn 3 null rod, later I decayed his chalice and then played a goyf and pithing needle for his active tezzeret.
I really liked the deck. I made some play mistakes, and my quick descriptions written are as close as I can remember. This deck is such an unfair fair deck with the hymns and deathrite shaman. I was a huge fan of Angler. He was value all day long and I don't think Tombstalker would be much better; every time I drew Angler i was happy it wasn't bob. Granted my matches were against fair and control decks mostly. Next GPT is next week!