Looks like it. I'm interested in the rationale for the Emperion, because it's not quite what I was thinking of for Dudes for this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
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Looks like it. I'm interested in the rationale for the Emperion, because it's not quite what I was thinking of for Dudes for this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Here's my two cents worth... it's basically a speed bump / brick wall that a lot of deck's can't beat. Just be cautious about attacking with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Game 1 here's why:
- Delver can't beat it, unless they have a miser's vapor snag/liliana etc.
- Burn needs to launch 2-3 burn spells to kill it.
- Storm can't beat it.
- It laughs at Marit Leige and punishing fire
- Belcher has to belch it before they can belch you. LoL!
It's a slottable with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Just that it can be fetched and cast with Eye of Ugin. I initially scaled back to one copy, but quickly went back up to two emperions.
Speaking about my local meta (Northern Italy) I think this is not the most beautiful age for 12postQuote:
Originally Posted by MGB
-omnitell is far from be out of meta: simply a lot of decks now know its presence in the meta and act consequently, so its victories are less. Maybe only with DTT's ban or something similiar we'll see it decrease.
-miracle: it was one of the reason that pushed me to play this deck. My meta was full of them, and as we all know, it's an easy matchup. But now 90% of them became miracle-mentor, and now it's more difficult.
-burn:for the new season here modern will be not play too much, and so those players are coming to legacy. Burn is the cheapest and simplest deck to begin with. Another bad matchup.....
I hope your situation is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
An early tabernacle does a lot of work to slow the mentor velocity.
100% agreed. I played against Mentor Miracles in the finals of my Win-a-Trop two weeks ago, and was considering siding it out, like I usually do against traditional Miracles. And I'm very, very glad that I didn't. I was honestly amazed at just how much work Tabernacle actually did. My opponent still managed to take a good-sized chunk out of my life total. But Tabernacle bought me enough time to stabilize and wipe his board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponders
Basically, Tabernacle keeps the damage you take manageable. If they keep more tokens alive, they have that much less mana to trigger prowess, and vice versa. Tabernacle is obviously much less effective in the late game, but when your opponent is still on 5 or less mana, it really hinders their ability to just start chaining Tops and cantrips to kill you out of nowhere.
Just split the top 4 of a SCG IQ with this list:
// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding
Matchups were Red Mud, Omni (loss), Reanimator, Post Mud, ID/w U/R delver, Quarter Finals Omni (win)
HA! I kept telling people Trickbind is The Shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I totally agree. I just said that miracle was a very easy matchup, now it's not true anymore. If tabernacle was in sideboard, now I'm thinking to put it mainbord (when I played the monogreen version I had it mainbord indeed....)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponders
I agree. Never before have I kept the list exactly the same between events and Top 8'd/won/split the next event, nevermind the next 4 events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
The deck is currently on fire, and doesn't feel like it is getting unexpectedly strong hands. My current goal is to find a Monestary Mentor esque solution, but mentor decks currently don't have answers to chasm, so I may just treat them similarly to how I used to treat elves.
:EDIT: The biggest aspect of this incarnation of the deck is that it can beat Omni. In the Top 8 of this event I 2-0'd omni by putting in emrakul and trickbinding theirs, swinging in for the win.
Much much better trinisphere than wipe away..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
It's still an easy matchup, just not a bye anymore. Now it's only maybe 80/20 instead of 95/5. You actually have to play now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey BoozeCube, do you still play a monogreen list? If so, have you ever played with Beast Within? I'm looking for a catch-all that isn't super expensive and this seems to foot the bill. You can also make a 3/3 for yourself and surprise block against things like death and taxes, etc. I'm curious what your list is looking like these days. I'm semi-tempted to move over to U/G just because trickbind sounds like a blast to play with, but part of me just doesn't want to give up on mono-green as it just beats so many decks.
I have the same big doubt drude: blue or green?
Green build was my first love, it's difficult to stop thinking of it :D It's solid, cards like Natural order or eureka are only side plan (eureka, by the way, is HUGE with 2x ugin in the deck). But you have less control on the game, and you miss the great "combo" brainstorm+fetch, that can fix a bad hand easily. Ancient stirrings is good, specially in a build like Booze's one, but in a deck with a lot of green cards (titans, eureka, crop, explore.....) you use it only as a land-draw; I'd like something better......
I don't know :(
I had a brief stint when I was playing UG Eureka. Eureka is very powerful, my only issue with it is sometimes you randomly loose as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
And on a side note...Dig Through Time is outta here Friday. I guess its time to re-tool again. :-)
Indeed. Black vise back. I love that.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2015-09-28
And here I was just finally comfortable with hugely hating on the card.
Glad to see omni get completely D-listed as an archetype though.
Shame though. I really feared no deck in the current meta with my current build. See my Top finishes in huge tournaments for the last 5 consecutive events.
Yep. Trickbind seems intriguing, but I'm hopelessly addicted to the raw power of monogreen with Ancient Stirrings. I've never tried Beast Within in Legacy, although I used to play with it extensively in Modern and Standard. I'm not a huge fan of it in my Post builds for a couple of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
- Tempo-wise, you're frequently going to have access to All Is Dust as a catch-all just as quickly as BW, as both require 3 land drops. Ugin is only a hair slower. I prefer these two because they have so much greater impact.
- It's green, so you can't find it with Ancient Stirrings. Not a dealbreaker by any means, but it's less easy to find when you need it.
- Seeing a 3/3 across the table isn't much more appealing than the majority of enemy creatures. The creatures you most need to hit are either (a) easily answered with Maze or Karakas (Griselbrand, Goyf), (b) can't be targeted anyway (TNN, Progenitus, Emrakul), or (c) have probably already gotten significant value (SFM, Pyromancer, Mentor, Craterhoof). The only real problem creatures that BW hits better than All Is Dust are Phyrexian Revoker, Painter, Magus of the Moon, and Tidespout Tyrant (on the draw).
- Having a surprise blocker can be good, but it's rarely more effective than neutralizing their creature with Maze of Ith. Except for surprising a Pyromancer, the token will just be a chump blocker against most significant creatures.
- Planeswalkers are already relatively easy to deal with between Dust, Ugin, and Pithing Needle.
- The only real problem lands in the format for us are Wasteland and Port. BW does nothing vs Wasteland. Candelabra and Needle already fight Port. Moreover, giving a 3/3 to the main decks that play Port seems unwise. Goblins and D&T have you on the defensive, so the token shortens your clock when that's already a factor. And one of the few advances vs Lands is that they don't have a real clock other than Depths. If you can neutralize Wasteland and Depths, you can grind them out. Punishing Fire isn't going to get there; giving them a 3/3 might.
- Postboard, K-Grip is infinitely superior for answering artifacts and enchantments.
Anyway, that's more or less why I don't play Beast Within. My current build is basically the same, but with new Ulamog replacing old Ulamog. I'm hoping that I'll be able to cut a Sphere/Trini/Trap if banning DTT diminishes Omni's presence in the meta. I miss being able to board down to 60 in g2/3.
Main Deck (61)
Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd put eureka only in monogreen version, with blue I think s&t is faster and easier to cast (U vs GG, not a big problem but sometimes it can make the difference). Also chris's list, with UGW, is very attractive.....so many options with this deck, love it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space. Here's my current list, for reference:
Creatures [9]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Primeval Titan
Instants [6]
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moments Peace
Sorceries [10]
4 Explore
2 Natural Order
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ancient Stirrings
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [7]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [27]
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
2 Forest
3 Savannah
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sacred Ground
2 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm
Not a huge fan of Moment's peace because pretty much every creature deck plays deathrite shaman. I also usually board in rest in peace against most creatures decks because they're typically playing tarmogoyf, so one fog and done just isn't good enough. Maybe swords to plowshares is what I'm looking for. I've tried wrath of god in the past, but it clashes with my natural order plan so I'm not playing it anymore.
I was doing quite well with the deck, but lately I've had trouble beating BUG delver and infect. I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless. I could use some tips for ways to win the BUG delver matchup. They have just the right amount of disruption backed up by pressure to run me over. I also don't have a candle, but when I borrowed it from a friend it didn't impress me much. You have to have cloudposts in play or its not worthwhile, and when you do you're already likely winning and can cast eldrazi anyway. How much faster does it make the deck? I'm leaning towards either buying tropical islands and switching to the U/G version or just buying a couple of eurekas and trying those out in my current build. Is the U/G version objectively better than the G/W or mono green builds?
The creature you are looking for is Sylvan Caryatid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
Thank you! It seems so obvious now, I can't believe I didn't think of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Dig through time: BANNED. Not sorry to see it go at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
You are correct about titan being in my hand most of the time running that list. Sadly. I'm not sure what to replace it with. I do like your list, even for its monogreen-ness. I like the sweepers.
Thanks, I love the sweepers too. I've always been drawn to board control rather than stack control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponders
As far as replacing the Titans, I'd definitely go up to the full 4x Crop Rotation. This style of build is naturally weaker to combo, and access to instant-speed Bojuka Bog is one of our few maindeck defenses against Storm (although I do expect Ulamog 2.0 to improve the matchup a little when on the play, since T3 Ulamog taking out 2 lands is very doable with a fast hand). If you like sweepers, I could also see going up to a second and even third Ugin, as he has been proving to be the stone-cold nuts for me. I also could see Sundering Titan, which has always been on the shortlist of cards I keep on the bench. Or a lot of people on this forum have been really into Platinum Emperion lately, although I haven't tested with it myself. Wurmcoil could even be an option, especially if you find yourself in an aggressive meta.
Been having a difficult time winning anything over the last week or so. Just, always the wrong cards in hand. Even the bluegreen that I was fond of isn't getting me there. With all the variants now, not sure what i shoudl be playing. What I have tried, is adding oblivion stone in some of those slots you mentioned, as well as animists' awakening.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
You seem to have found out that Natural Order is not optimal here due to the problems you are suffering from. Solution: ditch it or remake the deck to really support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
Also, you dislike one of the better cards against Infect while having issues with Infect. There's some room for improvement as well.
Here is a list I'm thinking of, after the banlist
Main
2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
3 Terminus
3 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Trickbind
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Expedition Map
Side
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sacred Ground
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip
as you can see, it's based on chris's one, with some little modifications:
a) 2 emperions+1 kozilek: I cannot leave my favourite eldrazi out of my list....It doesn't fit well with S&T, but I hope to hardcast it, not play only with S&T....emperion in some matchup is not so good, kozilek is good always.
b) 3 terminus+1 glacial chasm: sometimes opponent's creatures are too fast, and we cannot wait for a terminus. Crop + chasm it's an evergreen, and it's good also vs burn (I lost a lot of time with burn also with S&T.....if we don't have S&T and emperion on opening hand, it's hard)
c) 2 needle + 3 trickbind: OK, wasteland is not a problem anymore :D. and also storm and elves and other winning "triggered wincon". I'd like to insert some repeal, but I think this choice is the best.
d) 3 expedition map: Chris didn't have them on his list. It's hard for me to give them up....also because the shuffling effect is great in a deck without ponder.
Sideboard is still in construction, here are my general ideas:
a) relic: just one, to avoid a surgical on a cloudpost gone in the graveyard, to counter deathrite, tarmo, and so on.
b) sacred ground: cataclysm or recurring wasteland
c) beb: sneak attack is coming back to town, and blood moon is always here. Price of progress too, better have something more than flusterstorm. Some burn deck probably will side vexing susher, beb can destroy them easily.
d) surgical: graveyard hate at instant speed, target opponent's wasteland gone in graveyard, etc etc etc
e) tabernacle: my meta is FULL of mentors, this card plus terminus can slow them down.
What do you think guys?
I would never put Bojuka Bog in the SB, it's too important in several MUs. Why no Ulamog 2.0? Maybe even over Kozilek? Drawing 4 cards is great, but there are games where you tap out, play Kozilek, draw 4 cards and die :-/ destroying 2 lands or 2 threats or a mix could be often more helpful, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
you're right postman. I can remove 1 map (2 are enough) and add the bojuka. Probably the new ulamog is better than kozilek, I will test it: my only doubt about this is that I think S&T is better with kozilek than with ulamog 2.0. The WYC effect of Ulamog can be better than the draw effect, but attacking with annihilator is 90% game (of course, kozilek must survive a turn).
That's true, but most of the time a non-emrakul doesn't attack because it get's countered, bounced, sworded or lilly handles it :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
You're maindeck is within 8 cards of the BANT post I've been tuning recently. The differences are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
1 Candelabra of Tawnos -> 2 Candles
3 Trickbind -> 3 Repeal
1 Glacial Chasm -> 1 Forest
3 Expedition Map -> 2 Expedition Map
I'm also not playing Bojuka Bog main, wish I was, but the white splash chews up spots. I haven't been playing Glacial chasm, even though I know how good it is. I personally always prefer playing a forest so that I can have access to green through a blood moon.
These cards will surely deserve some hard testing.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
I'd like to play 2 candles, if I had! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
The main reason I put trickbind over repeal is that with 3 terminus is not so necessary to have also repeal (at least, not 3 of them). Instead trickbind can save me against a lot of things that neither terminus nor repeal can contrast.
I've been playing around with Animist's Awakening in the Exploration slot of my build. It's interesting, for sure. The thing I like most about it is that it helps get you to 7/8 lands so that you can wipe the board vs Blood Moon in g1. What I don't like, however, is that it usually feels like a win-more card the rest of the time instead of true acceleration. I've gone back to Exploration because it helps race combo, but I'm definitely keeping Awakening on the short list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponders
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Turn 1 Forest Opponent: Ancient tomb, chalice Crop rotate to Post
Turn 2 Post ------- Mox, Academy ruins
Turn 3 Post Oblivion stone, sylvan scry ------- Tezzeret, Pithing needle
It is a win more card because to get value you need to be casting it for ~x=4-5. For that mana u can hope to get 2-3 lands which is worse than tutoring with titan. As you have found exploration is best. I have been tinkering with various type es of acceleration and think that ill settle on some combination of mox diamond exploration. 2x of each at most but more likely just one ofs because they are terrible in multiples.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Natural order requires quite a few slots to be effective. Ive found that you should have at least 6 targets like priMe titan and progenitus. Additionally you need to get creatures into play early and reliably. I found that i couldnt go lower than 7 sacable creatures. That number included 2 dryad arbors. The reason i could get away with so fee is because i had 4 fetchlands to get arbors and 4 green sun zenith. You can run 1 veteran explorer with 4 basics. Since you want the explorer early game anywayss its unlikely you will have drawn 3 basics to make his search less advantageous. If gou run 2 explorers use 5 basics at least but 6 would be best. If you draw him late game its a pretty dead card whether u get lands out of it or not. Id recommend 1 explorer and more gsz because gsz is amazing. It lets you get cards like teeg out of the board which are huge and you only need 1 green to cast it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
TheBoozeCube , if tomorrow there will be a Grand Prix. You will play your mono_G list. What main and sb will you create? I am asking about it, because in 2 days i will play Legacy in Ovino with my list from 34 place at GP Lille. It is quiet similiar to yours. Most of intereset for me is the sideboard. What is the plan against Sneak? it is very intersting to read your thoughts
Hope to see a lot of you in Milan for ovino!! I'll be there, only as spectator unluckly, I miss some cards for 12 post.
Morden , write here or in private message, what do u miss
may be i can try to help
Thank you so much loxomatii, but I miss a lot of cards (basically all the blue ones.....S&T, fluster, brainstorm.....). Indeed, I'll go to ovino to buy/trade all these cards, so I won't have time to play :(