I saw this list, and I really did it. Bloody hell I sound like a hippy.
Anyways very interesting.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...koike_th_place
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I saw this list, and I really did it. Bloody hell I sound like a hippy.
Anyways very interesting.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...koike_th_place
Yes indeed, one of few(?) really innovative decks during this Oko winter. I'd love to see it played on stream. It's also interestingly close to Lumberjacks, I could see orcish lumberjack tested in this deck.
I really find the Greater Gargadon lists very neat... https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3678279#online
Is there any chance we could combine Greater Gargadon with Arena Rector and Academy Rector to have a stronger sac package?
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=28686&d=426501
Basically a Nic Fit merging both decks above?
Alternatively....
I can't help but note how Gargadon is a fantastic backup plan for Cascade Valki strategies... https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...k_to_dominate/
I am wondering if there's any way we could make a NicFit build featuring the following cards...
4 Greater Gargadon
3-4 Veteran Explorer
0-4 Living Wish
0-4 Cabal Therapy
0-4 Arena Rector
Various Powerful Planeswalkers
Plus the Cascade Valki package
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Shardless Agent
4 Ardent Plea
1 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
3 Valki, God of Lies
Cascading into Veteran Explorer, Living Wish or Cabal Therapy seems pretty bad.
In a deck packing a bunch of Rectors along with a lot of high cc bombs like Ugin and Tibalt, I don't think cascading into Vet Explorer or Cabal Therapy or Living Wish would be too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
The deck would only be playing 3 Vet Explorers maindeck, and it would be playing 4 Greater Gargadons which is a fine alternative to Valki to Cascade into.
The Explorers turn into 2 lands which makes high cc permanents Hardcastable. The Therapies are Disruption and sac outlets for your Explorers and Rectors so they are always useful and the Living Wishes get you either more Rectors or other silver bullets like containment priest, sanctum prelate, bojuka bog, Karakas etc.
The real issue is getting a workable 4c manabases with some basic lands. That might be impossible
I don't disagree with the overall premise of your post, it provides redundancy for a deck that doesn't usually have a lot of filtering options. However, I don't think you can cascade into Greater Gargadon...it's converted mana cost is 10. It's not like the no-cost spells like Hypergenesis, Living End, Ancestral Vision where it doesn't have a converted mana cost. Those are the alternatives to Valki that are worth playing, I think. Valki works (for now) because it's a two-sided card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I'm actually slightly surprised that someone hasn't tried to jam Hypergenesis alongside Valki; it's a hell of an alternative win condition if you have a Griselbrand or Emrakul to drop in.
Oh I missed that. Yeah Valki doesn't work then.
I still love Greater Gargadon as an additional sac outlet (that is also living wishable) in 8 Rector build featuring Titania Protector of Argorath looks so good. 10 sac outlets and 9 saccable creatures along with Living Wish as a tutor for either half of the combo is just super consistent.
Basically an 8 Rector build merged with elements of this seems perfect if Oko gets banned Monday...
https://aetherhub.com/Metagame/Legac...ic-fit-416905/
I'm a little disappointed in the nicfit community, you guys are discussing Greater Gargadon and Tibalt together. I expected so much more discussion of Cosmic Intervention out of you guys.
If you're in white for Rectors and cascading, alongside Greater Gargadon...isn't Restore Balance the card you're looking for? RB conveniently doesn't include planeswalkers in it's chaos. If the cascade rule isn't changed I think this is a powerful direction. Is it still nic fit? No, but it sounds fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I don't see this as anywhere near as powerful as Academy or Arena Rector. I honestly don't think its even legacy playable, especially at 4 mana (even if you get to spread it over 2 turns.)Quote:
I'm a little disappointed in the nicfit community, you guys are discussing Greater Gargadon and Tibalt together. I expected so much more discussion of Cosmic Intervention out of you guys.
It's not 4 mana so much as turn 2 special action the opponent can't Daze despite 100% mana utilization, into "I can pick a fight I don't even really care about at the conclusion of my opponent's second main phase." If you want to get Dazed every turn 2 though, carry on.
What are you even blinking on t2 that would make this powerful enough to invest a critical early turn on? Maybe a Veteran Explorer? Nic Fit doesn't even play Wasteland. This is a mid-game card where you get 3+ targets lined up to blast opponents with overwhelming value. Honestly, the only path that I can see that would make this shine is either the Rector plan already mentioned or with Birthing Pod. However, once you have those lines of play going already, why do you need a 'win more' effect?
With Astrolabe, Arcanist and Oko banned, can Nic Fit be made into a tier one deck now?
I don't think so, but it definitely gets better as the premier Wasteland-resistant mana-base deck. I'm going to finally pull the trigger and buy some Birthing Pod's now that Oko can't elk them, but we're not talking tier 1. We never really are with Nic Fit. Come on, be honest with yourself!Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
We just did an Everyday Eternal Episode, and Rhinotime will be back after a short interlude.
I think with Oko gone and as the meta shifts, big boyz will be better than they have been in a long time. I don't know if 4 Rhinos are going to be the right call, but I can see this deck being better than it was previously.
-Matt
Haha I forgot about thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Im probably about to go 0-3 with Scarab God in my deck and then put it away never to try it again
Probably true for every non-oko non-arcanist deck right? Don't get too optimistic lolQuote:
I can see this deck being better than it was previously.
Yeah, I want Birthing Pod and Yawgmoth shenanigans! There are some pretty great threats that have been printed along the curve in green and black recently, I'm mostly looking at these:
Sarulf, Realm Eater
Shifting Ceratops
Deep Forest Hermit
Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider
Battle Mammoth
Elder Gargaroth
I can't squeeze them all in, but Sarulf and Elder Gargaroth both seem nutso in Nic Fit, and Vorinclex could be nutso with Yawgmoth. Forget tier 1, we're going straight to s-tier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I think going back to our roots isn't a bad thing. I think we just have to be cognizant that Baleful Strix is a card again. Equipment probably also makes a come back. I'll probably dust off Jund as well...
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Questing Beast
X Siege Rhino
X Shifting Ceratops
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
+ There's probably a bunch of new creatures that I really need to suss out.
4 Cabal Therapy
4 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile/STP
2 Assassin's Trophy
Again, just throwing around BS.
If I was running Jund again, I'd run Punishing Fires, Lilianas, Klothys, and some big boyz (Thragtusk, Shifting Ceratops).
-Matt
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician laughs at Baleful Strix. One ping and it's down, and we get to draw cards, too. The important thing is to have enough dudes that can also create card advantage by sacrificing, or tokens. I could see Bitterblossom, Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, and Deep Forest Hermit keeping anything creature-based under check. I can't help but want to do some Bloodghast shenanigans as well, but that might be going too deep. Meren gives some pretty good synergy, and is typically a GSZ target already. Even just getting back Dryad Arbor and Veterans would be incredible with Yawgmoth.
I forgot that card existed. Would prefer it to be Thran Dentist, but whatever. May have to get an alter done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I never got around to fleshing it out, but 2 new cards were printed that haven’t gotten attention recently: Sea gate Storm-caller and village rites. Sea gate is another fair creature that benefits from ramp (kicker) and cabal therapy (provides body and doubles it up). Village rites is another powerful sac a creature card for vet. Perhaps a lower to the ground grindy bug-fit could work.
drainpipe vermin and tendrils of despair could be copies 9-10.
This gives you an insanely consistent chance of doing something powerful on t2/t3 since you have 10 sac fodders and 10 strong sac a creature effects.
Vermin into tendrils pay trigger is a discard 3. Therapy into stormgate fb therapy x2 is also a discard 2-3. T1 vet into t2 rites gives you 3 mana and 2 cards to try to stormcaller plus any sac spell on the same turn.
As village rites is an instant this could also be a very strong uro shell.
I don't think Drainpipe Vermin is quite good enough to be playable, but I totally forgot about Village Rites. If there was ever a deck that could take advantage of Village Rites, it's Nic Fit.
I did some testing and tendrils & vermin are probably going too deep.
But with the printing of basically another therapy and another cheap creature that’s insane with sac a creature spells it could be a very strong core to build around. In non-rector fit you can often have a vet without a therapy or a therapy without something to sac. 8 of each is more than twice as good as 4 of each.
I mean, I think it is, but even more so if you're running Academy Rector and such. I think I can say "Oh yeah!" to 2-of Village Rites in Rector-Fit, but in regular Fit? I'm...hesitant since I rarely have problems saccing creatures, but sometimes, you don't have enough creatures to sac. This is where token generation may be something to think about...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I'm drafting up Junk Value lists, Jund Punishing Fire Lists, and I'll probably throw a Rector List together too, for the hell of it.
-Matt
The idea is Seagate is an extremely good card to sac that also has built in bomb potential later (with decay or big gszs or with kicker). This makes cabal therapy a consistent strong card even if you don’t have vet explorer. T1+ T2 triple therapy does wonders to improve your terrible combo mu.
It also justifies you running more village rites, which means you have less hand with t1 vet but no therapy.
Yeah, I'm hesitant on playing too many sacrifice outlets but 2x Village Rites is probably good. I really like what Yawgmoth can do to the board as a sacrifice outlet, rather than just attacking opponent's hand. I'm also pretty sure I want to test Cabal Therapist again as well. I'm not sure how it fits in, but it seems decent as another body to sacrifice to Village Rites and another outlet to get more Therapy action. I think there's an argument for Kitchen Finks/Thragtusk with the sacrifice outlets as well.
damn its been a long time since the source had good discussion (not anyone's fault, just not much to say with such obvious best cards running around for so long!)
i'm working on this because deed seems really good atm. trying a straight list, thinking we have to play white for path since marit lage is everywhere, but i also think klothys is a really good card for what we want to do. decisions!
Is there a way to deal with Marit Lage outside of white? I know Diabolic Edict has been used in the past, but their board needs to be all-clear for Edict to actually nab the 20/20, and coming from a Depths player we play around Edict pretty effectively with Sylvan Safekeer and Dryad Arbor. One solution I have used in the past is Karakas out of the sideboard, enabled by a couple Crop Rotations in the maindeck. I wanted to have access to Phyrexian Tower consistently in the early game. Having a small CR package that includes Bojuka Bog, Karakas, and maybe even Maze of Ith in the sideboard doesn't seem like a terrible idea. Bitterblossom is also a soft answer to Marit Lage by creating chump blockers, but not reliable (sejiri steppe gets around a lot of options, really.)
Honestly, I don't know if its worth the effort to fight this particular matchup. Depths isn't unbeatable, but it's a pretty small margin, even with Path to Exile. If you're inclined to play Pithing Needle in your sideboard, that can slow them down, especially since Pernicious Deed is so bad against the deck you'll be siding it out anyways. I kinda like Depths in this new metagame, too...it seems poised to really wreck an unstable metagame, similar to what I expect Sneak/Show and Storm to do.
By far the best answer to marit lage in nic fit is assassins trophy imo, since nic fit wants to play 4 of those anyways between not caring about the downside and it’s flexibility.
Indirectly, opposition agent is very strong vs marit lage decks and synergizes with veteran explorer.
Nic fit could also afford to run a few field of ruins to answer problem lands.
Otherwise:
Lilliana’s Triumph
Soul Shatter
Brazen Borrower
Tyrants Scorn
Pithing needle
Dead // Gone
Run Afoul
Submerge
Have all seen play in legacy to answer lage. You have options in all colours, they are just awkward.
Trestle troll for the ultimate jank GSZ option
Celestial Purge and Needle are pretty decent.
Trophy hits lands, but doesn't actually deal with Marit Lage. While I agree it's a fine instant-speed answer to Stage activations, it still doesn't play around Crop Rotation. Yes, Trophy is a super low-cost answer to permanents in Nic Fit but I wouldn't bank on it solving your Depths matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwJ5m8KX...jpg&name=large
Pretty spicy donation list on Phil Gallagher's stream last night:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/944645249
Awesome list. I love Phils videos. His Rector Fit video was my favorite....
https://youtu.be/w-C5w8Py_dc
Speaking of Rector Fit, has anyone tried [[Grafted Wargear]] in Rector Fit as a sac outlet that also makes the Rectors Dryad Arbors and Vet Explorers into large and scary threats.
You can fetch or GSZ up a Dryad Arbor or a singleton BOP when you need a cheap easy target to equip it to. And beating down with a 4/3 dryad arbor or a 3/3 bird sounds spicy.
Considering the list posted above, is Nic Fit leaning towards cutting GSZ? I understand what Clackbridge Troll is doing, and once you jam in Opposition Agents and Plague Engineers you really don't have room for a GSZ package. Are threats better to have in multiples rather than singletons and costing 1 more with GSZ?
No, GSZ into Dryad Arbor is a fantastic turn 1 play when you can't open with Vet Explorer. GSZ is amazing both early game and late game, it's basically a Llanowar Elf that can instead be played as a giant beater if drawn mid or late game. The only reason the the troll list doesn't play it is because it plays maindeck cards like Kaervek and Night of Souls Betrayl that give ALL creatures -1/-1 along with a bunch of Deeds and Dryad Arbor is very antisynergic to play in a list like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Here is the YouTube link for that fantastic troll nic fit video...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8GE0opZsSC0&t=7583s
Are there any Nic Fit builds that pair VetExp and a Zenithable single Noble Hierarch with Neoform, Icefang Coatl, BalefulStrix, Brainstorm, FoW and 2 and 3 drops silver bullets like Plague Engineer, Collector Ouphe and Questing Beast etc?
Phil's newest video seems spicy as hell as I wanted to get Natural Order and Brainstorm working in Nic Fit for quite sometime...
https://youtu.be/kNSFNyk04IU
All that's missing is Veteran Explorer, but the list otherwise looks sweet.
Cool thanks! I figured it was a donation decklist with some new cards to play around with, it was just jarring to see there wasn't a GSZ package. Without bombs to utilize all the mana produced, I don't really see the reason for Vet/sac outlets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
The recent eternal durdles podcast had me thinking about how to build a good nic fit deck from first principles. The question we should be asking ourselves is not whether nic fit is a viable home for a pet card, but what threats best take advantage of the nic fit engine rather than the more traditional engines (led/dark ritual, monolith plus key, tomb plus ssg).
As pointed out by the podcast, the differences of nic fit are:
1. Actually puts out lands of different names.
2. Aristocrats subtheme
3. Makes 2 mana of any combination of colours.
Sea-gate stormcaller synergizes with all aspects (copying a spell doesn’t make you repay costs, built in mana sink)
Uro synergizes with all 3 aspects too so imo bug fit makes the most sense as a starting point.
Field of the dead loves point 1 so I think that is an auto include.
The eureka moment for me was when Eternal Durdles pointed out that Seagate plus Neoform gets spike feeder plus heliod for infinite life. Spike feeder even enters with an extra counter to go off through plague engineer or 1 piece of removal! Neoform benefits heavily from 2 (sac outlet, wants sac fodder) and 3 (colour intensive, can be cast off mana gotten from vet explorer)
I have done a bit of testing in the practice room and the dedicated NeoFit shell below seems like it has a lot of promise. It also fulfills my goals of playing good cards (brainstorm/uro/fow) without just being “bad bug zenith”
2 Field of the Dead
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Trop
1 WGB Triome
3 Vista
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Once upon a time
4 Brainstorm
4 Seagate Stormcaller
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Strix
4 Neoform
1 Heliod
1 Spikefeeder
3 Uro, Titan of nature’s wrath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Skyclave Apparition
1 Meren of clan Nel north
4 Force of will
Sideboard is untuned and the deck would like some assassins trophies or sylvan libraries if I can find the room.
In addition to the normal nic fit lines and the combo mentioned above, t1 veteran t2 neoform gets you 5 lands with different names in play and uro in your graveyard on t2 (get Forest/island off of vet trigger, get a 3/2 snap with neoform, fb neoform with snapcaster get an uro, uro trigger.
Apparition was because I wanted neoform to be removal sometimes and thus needed the triome to cast it.
I was often getting stuck with neoform and only 3 drops. Hence cut libraries for strix and added a 4 drop. Meren seemed like the best option.
Blue count is quite good. The deck isn’t the best brainstorm deck (low u sources, low fetches) but ouat lets you do a t1 perfect brainstorm.
sideboard is unpolished.
Is the infinite life combo worth having compared to just going BUG and having cleaner mana / fewer bad cards in the deck
If you Stormcaller -> Neoform then you can just get like Leovold + Uro or Leovold + Witness etc and you're pretty far ahead
Spellseeker might be worth considering as well
GSZ > OUAT potentially