Printable View
Check out the list I just posted above and run a few goldfishes for yourself. The card may seem underwhelming at first glance, but it's actually surprisingly strong. You'll see that I'm also dropping Hymn in favor of the 1cmc discard, increasing this guy's versatility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstalker
IoK/TS would work well, I will test it out when I get home for sure. Mostly I'm skeptical because you can't predict what it hits and a 2cc ponder isn't that good even considering the 2/2 body. Bob is better although he doesn't play well with stalkers but its the non evasive part that really keeps bob out of TA. Still this is all just theory on my part. At the least I could see it spawning some type of ancestral control.
You don't really need to have its target predicted, because all of them are good (aside from lategame topdeck-mode discard). However, you *can* manipulate what it cascades into by setting it up via Ponder/Brainstorm. It's like a miniature Bloodbraid Elf in better colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstalker
Double post
Hmmm the mini bbe part is true and it definitely jives well with burn spells. It seems to want something more and bolts would be best. Not the right thread but how about grixis colors with bolts, ancestral visions, delvers and brainstorma as the only 1cc spells seems tasty. What you think? Then against grave strategy bring in extraction effects ftw!
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post643144Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstalker
Let's keep discussion in this thread to the UBG lists. :D
Edit: Annnnddd we were misled. The new cascade creature apparently costs UG, not UB. Thus, he is still playable in TA, but will not be seeing inclusion in Grixis.
Edit 2: apparently cost 1UG. All my excitement and speculation for this card has evaporated.
Tombstalker, what is your manabase?
Wcm8- Ya cascade bear is pretty worthless now.
Almostgrown- currently its 9 fetch, 4 seas, 2 bayou, 1 trop, 3 wasteland. Im always trying new things but so far this one feels better then the normal at least in my build.
Which is the 41st card you are playing instead of land #20?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstalker
Below is my current list, the 41st card is darkblast I suppose although I had originally cut a ponder to fit darkblast. However 20 lands can flood and without stifle I don't feel 4 wastes are as imperative. I've gone through some radical changes recently but barring 1 flex spot this is what ill roll:
16 mana lands
3 wasteland
4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
3 tombstalker
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn
3 IoK
2 maelstrom pulse
3 snuff out
1 darkblast
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 liliana of the veil
1 sylvan library
Board 15
2 dread of night
3 spell pierce
3 surgical extraction
1 extirpate
1 LftL
2 perish
3 duress
Right now I'm really looking for a reason to main deck loam. I ran it for a couple nights and it was nuts except in my opener where when combined with library etc left me with diluted disruption. The card totally powers up all our cantrips, Liliana, library, stalker and wasteland which is probably reason enough even without retrace or manlands, just undecided for now but ill continue to sub it in and see how it goes.
Regarding my removal choices it seems like too many but its not. I have 8 total with 4 that create CA, these same 4 are never dead against non creature strategies though so in reality I simply have 4 spot removal. The deck is amazing and has a surprisingly powerful late game while retaining a tempo plan. Loam only adds to this by increasing the quality of my other spells immensely, at the expense of possibly slightly weaker openers.
That's the same list you posted a page ago. I know it without looking it up because I build the deck in paper for testing purposes today. ;-)
There are two differences with the maindeck, though: -1 Wasteland, -1 Loam (I'd keep this in the main!) - therefore that list above only contains 58 cards (39 + 19 lands).
Actually its -1 loam -1 wasteland +1 ponder +1 snuff out. The lone flex spot for me is ponder vs loam and I go back and forth right now. Also apologies for all the lists lately its probably annoying so ill stop, just easy to copy paste from my phone.
I like the direction you're taking with your list Tombstalker. Just not sure about 2-3 Snuff Out. They don't seem so great against a RUG/Combo metagame. I'm tempted to run Go for the Throat/Smother/Ghastly Demise in its place. Something to deal with Delver but without losing a shitton of life.
Thanks Koby, snuff out really is the best all around choice imo allowing us to flip momentum while playing threats. Also dodging early dazes and costing 1 against Thalia are pretty relevant. Good news is stalker owns thresh, goyf too and postboard 2 snuffs can come out. Submerge is a beast against stalker but perish, pierce, duress and loam are all good here while any burn based removal deck will need to 2 for 1 against most of our threats barring the odd dismember.
If this deck starts coming back in force again though I could see boarding some number of gftt for opposing stalkers. I don't see too much storm combo locally but demise would be my prefered alternative vs delver if I start having problems.
I follow your posts from time to time and I can see you are a very good and dedicated player so I'm sure this isn't news to you, just my thoughts.
I started to play TA (again) a few days ago and started with your list aswell Tombstalker! I like the overall feeling of the deck ( took the one you posted a few pages ago ) and I wouldnt cut the 4th Wasteland...ever.
But still, I hate the Tempo-Mirror speak Canada(RUG) vs America(BUG) as Canadian seems to have an edge over us due to playing simply the better tempo-colors. Ofc we have the better lategame but it feels so bad to play the defensive role while playing TA! Do you guys have any advices on how to approach the RUG-MU in general?
Greetings
To more consistently beat RUG, just make a few changes to the deck:
-3 Snuff Out
+3 Ghastly Demise
-4 Hymn
+4 1cmc discard
Paying 4 life to kill a creature against a deck with burn is not the best idea. Aside from Mongoose (which shouldnt be *that* big of an issue for us), all their creatures will die to Demise.
Hymn is unlikely to resolve -- they simply have too many counterspells to make it reliable. Sure, they can still spell Pierce/Daze the 1 cmc discard, but it's less of an investment to us.
If you play tight, TA is slightly favored in this matchup. Tombstalker really makes a huge difference, because it blanks all of their creatures or at least forces them to make 2-for-1 trades.
If you somehow manage to get Liliana to resolve and stick around for a couple turns, they've pretty much lost the game.
This deck doesn't like to play reactive even against Canadian thresh. Shipping back loose openers is a must. Establishing the manabase and sticking a stalker are the goals, play duals before fetches for early drops otd etc. Tbh wasteland performs the roll of mana producer foremost here for me. This is also why daze is a 3 of, to not impair our development. This deck looks to have an aggressive start even otd, if thresh drops delver t1 and you can snuff theirs and drop your own do it.
Also coming from tempo thresh you may want to consider these differences:
-miser fow more, blue count is much lower here. Its meant only to stop combos, stalker removal and kotr etc.
-use cantrips to exert pressure, sometimes even BS on your turn. Sounds crazy but this deck plays alot more sorcery speed spells and less counter magic. Sure you may still find daze/fow or force fodder in response to a casting but much less reliably.
-don't ship lands away til you establish 3-4, wasteland counts as 3rd if necessary. I've found I like wasteland better when I don't use it as aggressively as tempo thresh does. Too many decks can simply trump mana denial now but our advantage remains the most undercosted powerful spells/beaters and now a decent late game too.
Other than that i don't usually try to save delver unless its gonna be game winning.
Only major difference between this and other TA lists I've seen is (1) delver, and (2) no wasteland, and you cut some lands to do this. Also, more contrips (preordain) helps to establish a mana base early if you are worried about that, to power out tombstalker, and to keep your draws good in the late game. 1 Maelstrom pulse adds a 5th removal spell which is also good against things like Jace and Lingering Souls, both of which seem like annoying things to deal with if you get off to too slow of a start. ... etc. What do people think?
4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
4 tombstalker
4 force of will
3 daze
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 hymn to taurach
4 snuff out
1 maelstrom pulse
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 preordain
4 underground sea
4 tropical island
1 bayou
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacombs
Ive cut to 3 wasteland + LftL with no problem but I would never drop it completely, there are just too many nasty utility lands in the format. Also tropical island is the worst land in the deck you never want more then 1 in your 75.Quote:
4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
4 tombstalker
4 force of will
3 daze
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 hymn to taurach
4 snuff out
1 maelstrom pulse
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 preordain
4 underground sea
4 tropical island
1 bayou
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacombs
Other than that it looks like youve gone 'all in' on the creature plan which is ok but I think your missing out on library and liliana. Consider dropping a snuff out and a preordain for lilianas at least.
I agree with what you say about wasteland. I think I'll play at least three - its obviously so good with both daze and tombstalker, and just relevant in general for things like grove of the burnwillows, not letting them get a Jace out, etc. I don't know about Liliana's, though. They do seem perfect for the deck, but I don't really want to cut any snuff outs unless they prove to be worse than they seem. Free removal that makes your goyfs bigger, your tombstalker's cheaper, and turn on delver, seems perfect. And you don't really want to cut any blue spells, otherwise force gets awkward. I think! I'll try testing her sometime though, maybe she's worth it. And finally, if I'm not going to cut any snuff outs, I'm not sure Sylvan Library really fits, simply because you lose a lot of life, between fetchlands, thoughtseize, snuff out, and force of will. But maybe it is still worth playing: another card I need to test. And yeah, its seems logical to go all-in on the creature plan. You already play so much disruption that 12 creatures really isn't that many - just the same number that Canadian Threshold plays. But maybe I should cut a tombstalker for a liliana or something?