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In addition to all of the downsides you mentioned, I think DNS said it perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by filln
There isn't really a haymaker that living wish grants us access to. It provides convenience and depth to the deck but doesn't really solve any of the problems. If there was a card that could solve the problems the deck faces it would be main deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
Best haymaker I can think of is a 6-mana titan (Grave Titan or Primeval) but those are uncastable. Could play 4 Thrun.
That discard suite is wild.
I think I need to play the Living Wish Depths simply because I have 3 set DD's and one FTV DD, and it shames me every time I draw it.
That's a bizarre discard suite, and it's definitely not a budget issue (the whole deck was foiled). IoK/TS in a 2/2 split. Singleton Duress. At that rate, run the discard rat from Kamigawa in the Wish board because it's pretty #yolo from a consistency standpoint.
No land destruction main is a little concerning. I too don't like the sideboard Bojuka Bog, but the Faerie is nice.
But, overall something of this build worked for him clearly, so worth playing it as-is and seeing what it does. Where there any interviews?
At the 06:50:00 mark (basically at the very end of the video, following the finals): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/175282348Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
The fact that there's no Ghost Quarter main to be Crop Rotate'd for is also disappointing.
Thinking more about Thrun last night - it can't race a Batterskull or Jitte unless you can attack with him, bounce him with Karakas, and replay him, all while holding up 1G to regenerate him. So that's not worth pursuing.
Their probably is one main, in the finals 2nd game he has an opener with 2 ghost quarters. The posted list has to be wrong or he cheated and brought in a second quarter in a match where it is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
Good catch, I just counted the list and I got 58 cards. I assume Ghost Quarter must be one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekk
That's awesome that Depths took down EE. Weird build, though. I may try out Living Wish but I really don't like how the wish board takes up so many slots. The deck is so consistent/redundant as it is. I can't imagine you would be able to run 3x Rite of Consumption and Living Wish. And I am really a fan of Rite of Consumption as it shores up our bad match-ups so well. I think it says something that a player with a lot of name recognition chose to play Turbo Depths in a big-ish event. 1) It says that the deck is really well positioned now, 2) more people will be aware of the deck and be ready for it and/or play it. I currently think his build is sub-optimal; I think he won because he is a great player and the meta is really soft to our general strategy right now. Though I am open to the possibility that Living Wish is potentially better. I really liked the way he used Surgical to gain information. I currently only run 1x Surgical, and have decided to diversify my GY hate to serve other purposes. Ground Seal is great against Lands, Reanimator, stops Dredge from combo-ing, and stops all the decks that run Surgical in the SB from neutering us. Grafdigger's Cage is also great against Elves, and really snap-caster heavy decks. Beckon Apparition is more of a pet card for me :-) But it is actually pretty great for anti-surgical, anti-edict, GY hate. However, seeing Eli gain so much critical info from Surgical-ing made me realize that it also functions like G-Probe and that can be super important in many games, especially because it is instant speed so you don't have to wonder what they drew the turn before you want to go off on their end step. I may try to fit a 2nd or 3rd Surgical into my SB. There were also a lot of comments about Eli's discard suite. I don't really understand why Hymn and Cabal Therapy are in there. Hymn is great value but we aren't a deck looking to out-value people. Cabal Therapy seems more reasonable but we aren't often flashing it back...so why not just run Tseize or Duress? Thoughts?
He was running Gitaxian Probes? I may give that a shot...but what comes out for Probe?
@ComplexPants I think BUG Delver is still a decent match-up for us. But is the toughest of the Delvers. Hymn, Liliana, Abrupt Decay are all relevant additions.
The deck has a strange spread of cards, at least it appears that way. Looking more closely the decks proportions are balanced. I think i counted 8 discard. 1 of which is cabal therapy. I like that because you run probes but dont rely 100% solely on guessing. In certain cases you can even take advantage of of its flashback. I think some of the sb cards are unnecessary. Such as excavator. I cant really think of a situation it would be good in. At best maybe turn 5 ( only if you hit all your land drops and havent attempted to make token) realistically turn 7+ you can wish for him and start recycling the combo slowly. Your opponent shouldnt be durdling so hard you have time to make use of it, and if so its not something you should really plan for. If its simply to recur ghost quarters than maybe useful but still super slow. Anyone we would play it against is likely to have easy removal.
This deck does demonstrate though that depths is strong enough to mix into several shells and it still be amazing.
On a seperate note, i was wondering if anyone has tried playing a version without black since there is an artifact that can copy depths now. Recently ive been brainstorming ways to make a blue gren version of the deck work. Blue has access to control so its great againt combo, superior deck manipulation, and interesting solutions to the problems we face.
Blue has access to bounce so we could eot bounce a karakas or a flying blocker. Working with bounce could create a tempo version of the deck. Many losses ive experienced i am behind by 1 turn and bouncing a land /creature would have been sufficient to gain that turn.
Blue also has access to mana short which could be effective at tapping out the opponent then making a token protected from everything. Wasteland, karakas, STP, terminus. Blue gives the deck access to stifle which i think is really good for tempo (hitting a fetch land) and for dealing with wasteland, karakas, or storm.
Also, if you don't want to make use of the artifact, you could just run living wish. Not sure that its relevant but DNS mentioned the potential of getting a thrun. With blue, you have access to TNN which is much better at putting a clock on opponent or blocking / stalling the board.
Anyway, I thought i'd throw out this idea because once of the few ideas I haven't tried or tested. It's also something that none of the other versions could execute.
Thoughts?
I like something as simple as Tombstalker as a big Living Wish target. Delve + Evasion. Living Wish protects from getting Surgical Extracted after G1 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Could be fun, but I worry that people are just going to board in more bounce and exile cards to deal with ML, so not sure if Tombstalker is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovercraft
if this is the case, it might be better to migrate towards a blue version for better protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by ComplexPants
Hi All. I want to consider what it would look like to add 3x Gitaxian Probe to my version of BG Turbo Depths. I'd like to figure out what I would cut.. I'll put my current list below and then I'd like to hear others' thoughts about which 3 cards to cut.
Lands:
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
Spells:
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Evlish Spirit Guide
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Lotus Petal
3x Pithing Needle
4x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
1x Duress
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
2x Into the North
1x Expedition Map
1x Sylvan Library
SB:
3x Rite of Consumption
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Krosan Grip
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Karakas
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Ground Seal
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Mishra's Factory (though I think this will become a 2nd Surgical)
1x Duress
1x Sylvan Library
My initial instinct is to cut 1x Collective Brutality, 1x Into the North, and maybe 1x ESG? That third card to cut is tough to say. What do you all think?? Thanks :-)
Maybe just make your tutor package to 10 cards and discard spells to 6 or just 8 tutor cards. I haven't played the deck for a while but I'm glad that players are using Sylvan Safekeeper now since the last time I tried to convince everyone to test it. I will try living wish and experience it personally how it does with the deck. I'm actually also trying to make a BUG list with the deck - 4 FOW, 4 Stifle, 3 Dispel for protection aside from 2 Safekeeper and 3 Pithing Needle main.
I'm curious if Sorcerous Spyglass is worth to play in this deck instead/in addition to current Pithing Needles. We usually don't need to see opp's hand to name a good card (I typically can go for Wasteland / Cavern Harpy / Shaman / etc. turn 1 as I know who plays what in our local playgroup) and restricted on mana on the first turns, on the other hand it can be very good sometimes, for example vs D&T when you don't know what they are sandbagging (Karakas / Wasteland / Flickerwhisp off the Vial), also dodges Chalice for 1 in Eldrazi matchup. Info itself can be valuable when you didn't draw any of your 8 discard spells and want to combo and open more room for needle-your-fetchland plays which had won me at least one game in the past.
I think it would be a perfect fit for the deck, considering this deck wanted to play Git Probe, but the cost could potentially be an issue. Gets information which is critical for a combo deck, and preemtively answers several answers to this specific deck (Karakas, Wasteland, Liliana).
Hi,
Played TurboDepth's to a Top8 somewhile ago, ready to pick it up again (played al kind of wonky other decks in the meantime),
Going to play a stock list, but I have some questions about the main/side.
Main:
I always played with 2 Bayou and 4 Urborg (mostly because I don't have the Third bayou) I have the other options (blooming marsh and such), but as said before in this thread, Submerge is not that prevelant anymore. Plus the 4th Urborg provides that Turn 2 Token much better ;-)
I played with 3 Into The North in the past, but will switch to 3 Expedition Map's (wanted a 2 map/1 north setup actually). I understand that Map is more flexible and helps much better in the face of Bloodmoon at the cost of being much slower. Any other specific tricks with Map?
The 3 Not from this World will be replaced by 3 Sylvan Safekeepers. Fully understand that they are better, although an extra mana to setup. I assume you never give ML hexproof in advance (because I saw it in some reports), because if they respond, it will cost you an extra land.
4 thoughtseize is obvious, 2/2 IoK/Duress is what I used to play, but leaning to 4 Duress. Any suggestions?
Maybe playing 2 Maps and 1 Sylvan library main, but will play some libraries in the side. Any suggestions on this?
Also what are the standard matchups where you side library out or in?
Sideboard
4 or 3 Abrupt decays (cutting only to 3 if the place is absolutly needed), needed against so many things, bloodmoon, bridge, needle/revoker, ...
minimum 2 surgical extraction (leaning to 3 if place)
1 Karakas
Disruption element: Chalice or Sphere of Resistance (I see more Sphere's in peoples lists, but I had great success with a playset of CotV) any opinions?
the 4th Pithing Needle (against heavy wasteland/karakas decks)
Sylvan library 2 or 3, against grindy matchups as lands, miracles or STP heavy decks
Dryad Arbor or Mishra's Factory: I get it and don't get it at the same time. A crop rotation against an edict effect can save you with this tech. With the advantage of Arbor being able to tap for green (after a turn) and fetchable with Verdant Catacomb (BIG plus) and that mishra's factory can do a beat down plan, not a creature all the time, and can be a 3/3 on defence.
On the other hand, we got 4 Hexmage (mostly used for combo) and 3 Sylvan Savekeepers, which both can serve against these edict effects. (and do a lot more) so is that Arbor or Factory so necessary? Convince me :-)
Thanks for your feedback!
Map can be Stifle'd, so you can use Map to bait out Stifles if you want that. Otherwise, you may want to play around it.
Sylvan Safekeeper gives SHROUD, not Hexproof. The only difference is actually pretty important: if your opponent knows the deck and how cards work, it's going to be hard for you to Sejiri Steppe + protect from Swords using Sylvan Safekeeper. If you shroud first, you then cannot Steppe your guy past blockers. If you Steppe first, your opponent can respond with a Swords and you have to save your guy with Safekeeper, in which case Steppe will fizzle due to shroud. Small difference that rarely comes up. Some things that come up more often are a) sacrificing Safekeeper to edict effect to save Marit Lage, and b) straight up winning the game as soon as Safekeeper resolves (comes up against Miracles, Lands, sometimes Stoneblade). Those reasons (a+b) are why I switched to Safekeeper over Not of This World.
Hey Xod, definitely a great tie to get back into Turbo Depths. I also play with 2 Bayous instead of 3. I don't do this for budget reasons, rather I run Llanowar Wastes as a non-forest green source just in case I am worried about Submerge. It has a very low cost, especially with an Urborg in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xod
I play 1 Map, 2 Into the North, and 1 Sylvan Library MD / 1 SB. I actually think 2 map / 1 ITN might be better right now. But I'm a sucker for rampant growthing into Depths :-)
Yeah, Safekeepers are great--and an obvious card to side out if you aren't playing against targeted ML removal. I only play 2 because SB I play 3 Rite of Consumption, which serves a similar purpose.
I run 8 discard main, 1 SB for combo matchups. The other discard spell to consider is Collective Brutality. In most matchups it has utility, and it is crushing against decks like Infect and DnT, which are two challenging matchups for us. It's also a removal spell for Delvers and Magus of the Moon, or that annoying Baleful Strix speed bump.
I side library out in matchups where it is a race--like against other combo decks. I side it in against grindy matchups, like DnT, Miracles, Lands, etc.
I agree with somewhere between 3-4 Abrupt Decays (I run 2 AD and 1 Krosan Grip) But sometimes I miss having a 3rd AD.
My GY hate package is weird, but 2-3 Surgical is a good plan. Other cards to think about are Faerie Macabre, Grafdigger's Cage (as it also stops the combo plan from Elves), and my personal two favorites, Ground Seal and Beckon Apparition.
I used to run Chalices, now I just run 1 Sphere.
I have been running a Mishra's factory, but it just hasn't been that great. I may take it out to free up a spot for something else.
Okay, not everyone agrees, and I poo-poo-ed it for a while too, but Rite of Consumption is the real deal. Makes Miracles, Lands, DnT, Maverick, and a couple others a walk in the park. I also run Boseiju for Miracles. It just shores up our weak matchups in such a strong way. So I dedicate 4 slots to the plan, 3x Rite, 1 Boseiju.