[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

Here is the list I'm going to be testing - I agree, Fire/Ice seems pretty good against Maverick. Killing a Mom and a Hierarch or tapping down a Knight is pretty good.
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Snapcaster Mage

2 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Force of Will
2 Fire/Ice
2 Dismember
3 Ponder
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island

Sideboard:
1 Phantasmal Image
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
3 Pyroblast
2 Submerge
1 Mind Harness

I only run 2 Stifle since I'm pretty underwhelmed by them recently, even though they're pretty good against some decks. People just know how to play around Stifle and leaving mana open for it sometimes can lose you a game. Gitaxian Probe takes its place since it cycles and fuels Mongoose, Snapcasters, and Goyf.

Let me know how the testing goes. I actually feel you either go 4x stifle or none. You are trying to maximize the tempo portion of the deck with stifles and I'm not sure 2x serves that purpose. I agree about them feeling underwelming and find myself wanting to side them out quite frequently.

If the meta continues to shift towards people running Deed as a maverick sweeper, it might serve us well to keep Stifles in. Not to mention the increase in combo decks recently.

Let me know how that testing goes, I'll try the stifle testing online as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose

Every time. Snapcaster sucks.

Edit:

Placed first in a very small tournament. Three rounds. Drew 2-0-1 into the top 2.

18 Land
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

12 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose

30 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Spell Pierce

15 Sideboard
3 Extirpate
3 Disfigure
3 Mind Harness
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Torpor Orb

Round 1
2-1 UR Delver

Round 2
2-1 TES

Round 3
ID UWRG Stoneforge

Top 2
2-1 UWRG Stoneforge

Mongoose was MVP all night. Untapping with Bob is brutal.

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Hey I really like the list. How competative is it against today's game? Any reason you chose b over r? It seems the rug variant is showing up in every top 8 for the last few months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziveeman

Here is the list I'm going to be testing - I agree, Fire/Ice seems pretty good against Maverick. Killing a Mom and a Hierarch or tapping down a Knight is pretty good.
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Snapcaster Mage

2 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Force of Will
2 Fire/Ice
2 Dismember
3 Ponder
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island

Sideboard:
1 Phantasmal Image
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
3 Pyroblast
2 Submerge
1 Mind Harness

I only run 2 Stifle since I'm pretty underwhelmed by them recently, even though they're pretty good against some decks. People just know how to play around Stifle and leaving mana open for it sometimes can lose you a game. Gitaxian Probe takes its place since it cycles and fuels Mongoose, Snapcasters, and Goyf.

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I really like your list other then I do agree with the above poster that you either run 4 Stifle or none, my favorite part is Probe it makes me think about ading a few to my list.

Yesterday I saw RUG Tempo (if you haven't lost your last drip of sense of honor don't call that Canadian) playing Nimble Mongoose, Grim Lavamancer, Snapcaster Mage & propably Tarmogoyf. In the same deck. I feel like I have to repeat myself on that one.
In the same deck.
What the heck is wrong these days... .

Just a random blurb, but I went X-1 with DTT again getting 4th place at another local tourney. I loves me some Dark Confidant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceustice

I really like your list other then I do agree with the above poster that you either run 4 Stifle or none, my favorite part is Probe it makes me think about ading a few to my list.

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Is it completly crazy to suggest cutting some Ponders to make the room for 4x Stifle and some number of Probe?

The Hatfield's list that put two people in the Top 16 only ran 3 Stifle. Maybe 2 Stifle is too little, but regardless, I don't really think it's something you HAVE to have as a 4 of. Simply the presence of Stifle will cause your opponent to play around it. Once they know you're playing RUG, they know that Stifle is a very real card and they will need to play around it or they can get blown out. If we can get them to play less optimally without running 4 Stifle, why not? That way we can way put better cards in its place.

People said the same thing about Daze before but now a 4-of Daze isn't the norm. Some people even run just 1 Daze to blow someone out and then for the rest of the game (or match) they play around it. I don't see why Stifle can be the same.

What I see as an problem is the simple fact that you need to use Daze sometimes! You cannot rely on the enemie just trying to dodge the nonexistent Daze. We dont only play Daze to slow the enemy down - we play it for tempo-reasons - speak counterning for free and gaining tempo :P

Playing less than 3 Daze's and 3 Stifle's isn't just counter-intuitive, but also counter-effective in terms of what the deck is trying to accomplish.
Playing with (just) 3 of both is definetly fine (and I did played pretty aggroish lists before Innistrad with 11 Creatures and 3 Stifles and it worked out very well) but going below that number is clearly against the deck's playstyle in general.
If you play Snapcaster I highly recommend to play a split of 3 Ponder and 2 Probe's btw.

Well Daze I definitely agree needs to be a 3 or 4 of. The 1 Daze was just an example (and definitely not in RUG Tempo) that cards like those as a 4 of is not precedent. It's just frustrating when you hold Stifles and you can't use them whatsoever since my opponents know how to play around it. Maybe I'll just cut Fire/Ice down to a 1 of to fit the 3rd Stifle in since multiple Fire/Ice kinda get stuck in hand.

Every once in a while, you can blow someone out by playing only one Daze. They will play around it regardless of whether you have it in the deck.

I would put these statements more on the true side (also) and I do think that playing a random Daze is a solid choice in many decks (which is underestimated, thats for sure) but in Tempo it is part of typical gameplan in which either way its effective, mana-denial or not.
I agree on Daze and Stifle beeing mediocre in some MU's, especially against the better players, but if you figured that one out I see no difficulty in siding them out (or leaving in only a couple for show). Giving up the advantages of these 2 cards is too huge to cut them completely or shrinking them down to a 2-off.
In general you have to decide right while building the deck in which direction you wanna go and what your deck/brew should be capable of, if your list successfully finishes all your business that it should live up to thats a fine thing. Period.

If anyone's interested, this is pretty near to the optimum right now IMO:

4 Trop
4 Volc
4 Waste
6 Fetch


4 Goyf
4 Delver
3 Mongeese

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 F/I
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 FoW
4 Stifle

Sb:
3 PyroB/REB
3 Spell Pierce
3 GY-Hate
3 Submerge
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mind Harness
1 Rough/Tumble

Cut the GY-Hate if you feel like doing so in exchange for more Krips/Ancient Grudge/Mind Harness/Clasm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher

If anyone's interested, this is pretty near to the optimum right now IMO:

4 Trop
4 Volc
4 Waste
6 Fetch


4 Goyf
4 Delver
3 Mongeese

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 F/I
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 FoW
4 Stifle

Sb:
3 PyroB/REB
3 Spell Pierce
3 GY-Hate
3 Submerge
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mind Harness
1 Rough/Tumble

Cut the GY-Hate if you feel like doing so in exchange for more Krips/Ancient Grudge/Mind Harness/Clasm

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I really like the single Island in there, it's worth it in my opinion. Also, no dismembers maindecks is probably a bad idea. F/I is good, but not good enough to beat Maverick without the Dismember plan.

I'd be more likely to run:

-1 Snare or -1 Daze
-1 Stifle
+2 Dismember MD

Sideboard is always meta dependant.

With the upswing in Maverick decks, I think cutting down to 3 stifles to bring in F/I is the right call.

That's the nice thing about RUG, it is always flexible and since it has no really terrible matchups, it can remain flexible to shift in the direction of the meta.

I'm still not sold on Probe Zive, but it is wearing on me during testing. Would you run Probes md without any snappys? Or would you go back to the 4x ponder package?

@ the brainwasher: I agree with you on cutting one creature but why did you choose the Mongoose? In my opinion the Mongoose is a lot better than Tarmogoyf for example. Tarmogoyf gets killed by spotremoval, gets countered by Snare and costs two Mana.

@ImpinAintEasy:
I played a split of 2 Dismember and only 1 F/I before and have gone back to the 3 F/I.
Dismember might be a fine card but good players can normally get their Knight out of the range of it and then its way, way worse, plus it beeing a damn bad card to draw against so many decks and playing 2 isnt very likeley also.
There is a good reason behind this decision and the forced 2for1 against Maverick with it (or tapping Knight if you want to put it that way) are priceless in comparison to handle a Knight or Ooze from a mediocre player.
3 Daze and 3 Snare is something I would only recommend when playing with Snapcaster Mage. I simply don't and so I play it pretty straight forward which does the job quite well.

@royal:
I wouldn't play more than 11 creatures, regardless if its Snapcaster or not. 12 is just way too much and pollutes your hand with too aggro-ish draws that are your death-sentence against a lot of decks/opposing draws.
11 creatures are a very good call for an open meta; it lets you play both Control and Aggro very well, mostly because you can pitch Delver easily and allows you to overload the board sometimes to get some beats through.
4 Tarmogoyf is a must to beat random aggro-decks and develop a somehow impressive board. Some decks literally can not act at all in combat as long as you control the best wall of the format and I wouldn't play less than 4, propably like ever. The whole StP/Removal/Snare argument isn't worth much as long as you play correct, plus Mungo is a pretty underwhelming card from time to time (as much as I hate to admit that) in the actual meta.

I don't think I would run Probe MD without Snapcasters. It does build Threshold faster for Mongoose which is cool but overall Ponder is probably better if you're not running Snapcaster. Probe just makes it easier to get more value out of Snapcasters since it turns Snapcaster from a 3-drop into a 2-drop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziveeman

I don't think I would run Probe MD without Snapcasters. It does build Threshold faster for Mongoose which is cool but overall Ponder is probably better if you're not running Snapcaster. Probe just makes it easier to get more value out of Snapcasters since it turns Snapcaster from a 3-drop into a 2-drop.

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I figured that would be the answer. I am still not sold on completely cutting snappys, which is why I like 2x maindeck.

Has there ever been any testing or serious consideration to cutting the 4th Force of Will. I know other decks have tried this to some success and I'm wondering if I am crazy or if this is a serious idea.

I'm preparing for the GP Indy and without knowing exactly what to expect, I'm assuming there to be your typical Stoneblade, RUG, Maverick builds leading the pack.

I am heavily medicated right now due to a stupid cold, so maybe cutting force is merely a delusional thought.

I think it depends on the metagame. I wouldn't cut it for GP Indy though. My local metagame has little to no combo so I would feel safe in going down to 3 there (in fact the list I posted above reflects that), especially since I side them out so often anyway.

Goose list: See upper post


Snap list:

1 Island
3 Trop
4 Volc
4 Waste
6 Fetch


4 Goyf
4 Delver
3 Snapcaster

4 Bolt
1 F/I
1 Dismember
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Snare
3 Daze
2 Spell pierce
4 FoW
4 Stifle

Sb:

3 Surgical Extraction
1 Crypt
3 REB/Plast
2 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mind Harness
1 Life from the Loam
1 Price of Progress


Currently I wouldn't catch myself by playing anything besides these 2 lists, the sb isn't set in stone though (and looks a bit too uncoordinated but really isn't).