Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I think Goblins just can't deal with Mother of Runes + StoneForge Mystic into Batter and Jitte. It is a combo that would very tough to break. I can deal with 1 equip, 2 equip is maybe a bit rough. If they have the 3rd, forgot it. :D
I just played a couple of Deadguy Ale and discovered they are even worse matchups because have discards on top of the above. I don't have much to bring against them postboard too. *sobs* The thing is that up to 30-35% of the decks has SFM and almost all of them comes with Jitte or Batterskull. A good number has both or more.
I want to re examine why Chieftains not WarChefs? Basically, Chieftains don't really help when removal is concerned but they can help damage-wise. Warchef helps with speed and maybe 1 turn faster. Shouldn't we play both of them? 2/2?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I've gotten back into magic in the last few weeks and have started testing goblins again and went with a chieftain build since thats what people were liking. I have to say that I haven't been thrilled with Chieftains at all, its a small sample size I'm sure but the +1/+1 just doesn't seem to be great.
I feel like the problem is that in most matches, if you get out a bunch of dudes then you're probably going to win regardless but without warchief the deck feels alot clunkier/slower to me. Even with 4 instigator/4 lackey unless they connect you can't really explode like you used to be able to with warchief/vial or just warchiefs.
I'm going to do plenty more testing though as well with black builds for weirding/perish.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Am I the only that think that Mom + Stoneforge is totally manageble?
I mean. The play Stone, you play a 1 and a 2 drop. The save mana tu vial Jitte, you cast Matron into Tuktuk. They hit once, you use Tuktuk. You just have to have 4 mana or a Vial.
And dealing with mom (one of them. 2 is a bitch) is not that tough. Tarfire/Gempalm something eot, kill it again next turn. Stingscourger helps a lot too, epecially if you don't have to pay mana due to Vial.
@Deadguy: It loses to ringleader. Just play it safe. I think we're favorable.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Am I the only that think that Mom + Stoneforge is totally manageble?
I mean. The play Stone, you play a 1 and a 2 drop. The save mana tu vial Jitte, you cast Matron into Tuktuk. They hit once, you use Tuktuk. You just have to have 4 mana or a Vial.
And dealing with mom (one of them. 2 is a bitch) is not that tough. Tarfire/Gempalm something eot, kill it again next turn. Stingscourger helps a lot too, epecially if you don't have to pay mana due to Vial.
@Deadguy: It loses to ringleader. Just play it safe. I think we're favorable.
I feel like the only real problem with stoneforge is when they're rolling with counters like U/W because if they can counter that one tarfire/matron/tuktuk its really hard. Against decks without blue I'm not too worried about it. U/W is fairly popular though.
Deadguy I feel is probably slightly favorable depending on their build, the ones with mom being worse obviously.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Am I the only that think that Mom + Stoneforge is totally manageble?
I mean. The play Stone, you play a 1 and a 2 drop. The save mana tu vial Jitte, you cast Matron into Tuktuk. They hit once, you use Tuktuk. You just have to have 4 mana or a Vial.
And dealing with mom (one of them. 2 is a bitch) is not that tough. Tarfire/Gempalm something eot, kill it again next turn. Stingscourger helps a lot too, epecially if you don't have to pay mana due to Vial.
@Deadguy: It loses to ringleader. Just play it safe. I think we're favorable.
With a decent draw, we can handle the first equipment fine. When their opening have a 2nd piece of equipment, it is rough.
DeadGuy is rough because they do the same opening with Mums --> SFM --> Hymm or targeted discard. They could steal away tuktuk or matron or ringleader. They do have alot of discards and nasty flying faeries or Nighthawk to carry equipment. It could possibly be worse than counters. Definitely not favourable at least, maybe we can work something out postboard.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Anyone seing the 5th round at SCG?
Players like that (the goblins player) are the reason think the deck is bad...
And he won game 1!
Lets see what happens now...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Anyone seing the 5th round at SCG?
Players like that (the goblins player) are the reason think the deck is bad...
And he won game 1!
Lets see what happens now...
he was simply bad. he deserves the loss.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Am I the only that think that Mom + Stoneforge is totally manageble?
I mean. The play Stone, you play a 1 and a 2 drop. The save mana tu vial Jitte, you cast Matron into Tuktuk. They hit once, you use Tuktuk. You just have to have 4 mana or a Vial.
And dealing with mom (one of them. 2 is a bitch) is not that tough. Tarfire/Gempalm something eot, kill it again next turn. Stingscourger helps a lot too, epecially if you don't have to pay mana due to Vial.
I find it manageable too, especially if they go for Batterskull first. You know they're not going to block with the Mystic (unless they hit it with Mom), so use that knowledge to your advantage and attack/use removal accordingly. If they do manage to cheat the Batterskull in, you've got time to Matron for a TukTuk. Hell, one hit off of it isn't really a big deal either. Plus, most lists run the 'skull as a 1-of, so blow it up and you're done.
If they go for Jitte first, they still need the same number of turns to get it active. Again, you have to assume they're not going to block with the Mystic (so they have something to carry the Jitte), so attack/use removal accordingly.
I treat the Mystic --> Equipment play the same way I treat a resolved Dark Confidant. You know it isn't blocking, so do what you came there to do and turn some goblins sideways.
If you're really stuck, run some number of Anarchy in your sideboard. Mom can't do a damn thing about that.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
I find it manageable too, especially if they go for Batterskull first. You know they're not going to block with the Mystic (unless they hit it with Mom), so use that knowledge to your advantage and attack/use removal accordingly. If they do manage to cheat the Batterskull in, you've got time to Matron for a TukTuk. Hell, one hit off of it isn't really a big deal either. Plus, most lists run the 'skull as a 1-of, so blow it up and you're done.
If they go for Jitte first, they still need the same number of turns to get it active. Again, you have to assume they're not going to block with the Mystic (so they have something to carry the Jitte), so attack/use removal accordingly.
I treat the Mystic --> Equipment play the same way I treat a resolved Dark Confidant. You know it isn't blocking, so do what you came there to do and turn some goblins sideways.
If you're really stuck, run some number of
Anarchy in your sideboard. Mom can't do a damn thing about that.
I have found that resolved batterskulls aren't an issue versus blade-control, but the line of play of Mom + mystic can be a tough opener to deal with from maverick. The problem does not resolve in beating the two card combination, but rather, what happens in subsequent turns.
You can deal with a mom past the first turn, but you're going to generally need (as stated before) two sources of removal to do it. Occasionally, you can get them to block your instigator with a mom and tarfire/gempalm it in response, but often two forms of removal are required. In many MUs this isn't a problem, but against maverick, you're often assaulted with knights, oozes and goyfs in the subsequent turns. Gempalms and stingscourgers that are used to 2:1 a mom are sorely missed when faced with maverick's larger threats. So yes, dealing with that opening is completely doable. But what makes the opening dangerous is not a two-card combo of mom + stoneforge, but lacking removal if the maverick transitions to turn 3-5 must-deal-with threats.
It is also worth noting that the opener is relative, and greatly depends who is on the play, and who is on the draw. If you're playing the mox version and are on the play, t1 MOM and t2 stoneforge doesn't compete with your better openings. T1 instigator/t2 chieftain (with a ringleader or a siege-gang in hand) on the play is an opening that forces the maverick player to answer with removal or lose. And even in the non-mox versions, a t1 swords is a better play for a stoneforge if he/she is on the draw. A turn 1-lackey followed up by gempalm/tarfire/stingscourger can quickly break the game open.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wert
I think Goblins just can't deal with Mother of Runes + StoneForge Mystic into Batter and Jitte. It is a combo that would very tough to break. I can deal with 1 equip, 2 equip is maybe a bit rough. If they have the 3rd, forgot it. :D
I just played a couple of Deadguy Ale and discovered they are even worse matchups because have discards on top of the above. I don't have much to bring against them postboard too. *sobs* The thing is that up to 30-35% of the decks has SFM and almost all of them comes with Jitte or Batterskull. A good number has both or more.
I want to re examine why Chieftains not WarChefs? Basically, Chieftains don't really help when removal is concerned but they can help damage-wise. Warchef helps with speed and maybe 1 turn faster. Shouldn't we play both of them? 2/2?
I've been running 2-3 war chiefs in many builds (and often keep 1 as a search target), but I would rather run 7-8 chieftains. Warchief does not affect vial, tarfire, and instigator (outside of giving him haste...which chieftain does and gives him +1/+1). It makes MWM and siege-gang cheaper, but I'd typically would rather have 2/2 tokens instead of a CC cheaper to cast. Neither affect gempalm directly. Matrons and ringleaders are the two targets war chief helps, but you're also getting less pressure out of them (1/1 and 2/2 versus 2/2 and 3/3). To get proper mileage out of war chief, you almost have to go back to the old build. It certainly has benefits, but against the current meta, I prefer the instigator/chieftain version.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Warchiefs worked because with wastelands and rishadan ports locking opponents mana, and vials ticking up, warchiefs allowed for mana control as we needed less to cast our own goblins. the whole idea was tempo, slow them down, and get ringleaders.
However the opponents seemed to have sped up over the years and i don't see rishadan ports slowing them down enough to warrant the tempo warchief route being as effective anymore. So I fully agree chieftains add more pressure by giving all goblins +1 +1 and still importantly haste for alpha strikes from piledrivers.
I still see piledriver / instigator as a seperate debate to warchief / chieftain.
On another note after mogg fanatic was nerfed we always struggled for enough removal. Tarfires have filled this spot, and now with gempalms and stingscourgers for large creatures i believe the speed and balance of the deck is back. However amongst all this MWM is in my opinion still important for the synergy of holding cards together.
I recently beat maverick with the help of pyrokenisis from the board and it was a delight to see his smirk disappear when i matroned for a tarfire to finish him off! Throw in red blasts and graveyard hate and artifact hate goblins then Goblins are a real threat.
As for ANT decks I have tried Fireblast as a surprise as burn hurts them. Has anyone else tried this card? Is Fireblast worth playing in the SB?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wert
I want to re examine why Chieftains not WarChefs? Basically, Chieftains don't really help when removal is concerned but they can help damage-wise. Warchef helps with speed and maybe 1 turn faster. Shouldn't we play both of them? 2/2?
What you need to consider is what type of list you want to play.
If you want to take the mana-denial "control" route (i.e. with Wasteland AND Port), Warchief is your man. He maximizes the amount of mana you have available to spend controlling your opponent's mana base while still allowing you to deploy creatures.
If you want to take the aggressive "must answer" threats approach (i.e. with WInstigator), Chieftain is your man. He makes your Instigators big enough to trade with a small Goyf or Batterskull germ and also allows you to push through some extra damage when something connects.
I'm honestly not sure about the viability of some sort of hybrid list that combines those two game plans. Whether or not you choose Warchief or Chieftain should be based on two factors:
1. The amount of colorless mana in the casting cost of your goblins (remember that Warchief has no effect on red mana symbols)
2. The amount of mana you expect to have available for casting goblins each turn.
In my experience, the +1/+1 and haste from a Chieftain has been much more relevant than -1 colorless and haste from a Warchief. Then again, I am playing a list with very little in terms of colorless mana requirements.
I am however planning on finding room for a Mogg War-marshal or two in my list...I've been losing to far to many Gofys lately. I'll post some results when I have them.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
What do you guys think about the 4 Engineered Plagues in the board of Timothy Tyler Thomason's list who placed top 8 at the last SCG? Here's what he said about it:
Quote:
Engineered Plague is a bomb against decks like Elves, and is even good against Maverick by picking off Noble Hierarchs and Mother of Runes when set to Human
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chuck2657
I have found that resolved batterskulls aren't an issue versus blade-control, but the line of play of Mom + mystic can be a tough opener to deal with from maverick. The problem does not resolve in beating the two card combination, but rather, what happens in subsequent turns.
*snip*
Yes, that is exactly what I had experienced. After I got rid of the Mum + SFM, I find myself often short of ammo to deal with what comes next. Also I wouldn't have much of a board presence. I also think MWM is important to the setup as he can hold up the numbers especially with chieftains in play. But I don't seem to be able to find space for 2-3 of them let alone 4 and the fact they complete with WI at 2cc. I think if I run them, I should run at least 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
orcanmail
Warchiefs worked because with wastelands and rishadan ports locking opponents mana, and vials ticking up, warchiefs allowed for mana control as we needed less to cast our own goblins. the whole idea was tempo, slow them down, and get ringleaders.
However the opponents seemed to have sped up over the years and i don't see rishadan ports slowing them down enough to warrant the tempo warchief route being as effective anymore. So I fully agree chieftains add more pressure by giving all goblins +1 +1 and still importantly haste for alpha strikes from piledrivers.
I still see piledriver / instigator as a seperate debate to warchief / chieftain.
On another note after mogg fanatic was nerfed we always struggled for enough removal. Tarfires have filled this spot, and now with gempalms and stingscourgers for large creatures i believe the speed and balance of the deck is back. However amongst all this MWM is in my opinion still important for the synergy of holding cards together.
I recently beat maverick with the help of pyrokenisis from the board and it was a delight to see his smirk disappear when i matroned for a tarfire to finish him off! Throw in red blasts and graveyard hate and artifact hate goblins then Goblins are a real threat.
As for ANT decks I have tried Fireblast as a surprise as burn hurts them. Has anyone else tried this card? Is Fireblast worth playing in the SB?
I think you are totally right about the rishadan ports with warchief. No wonder I feel Warchief seems to lose his shine as I had cut out ports totally. To be effective, I should run both or none. I also think the deck lacks removal, but there isn't much effective ones in red goblin shape. I had tried mogg fanatic, surprisingly effective but I got a feeling that slot can go to a better card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
What you need to consider is what type of list you want to play.
If you want to take the mana-denial "control" route (i.e. with Wasteland AND Port), Warchief is your man. He maximizes the amount of mana you have available to spend controlling your opponent's mana base while still allowing you to deploy creatures.
If you want to take the aggressive "must answer" threats approach (i.e. with WInstigator), Chieftain is your man. He makes your Instigators big enough to trade with a small Goyf or Batterskull germ and also allows you to push through some extra damage when something connects.
I'm honestly not sure about the viability of some sort of hybrid list that combines those two game plans. Whether or not you choose Warchief or Chieftain should be based on two factors:
1. The amount of colorless mana in the casting cost of your goblins (remember that Warchief has no effect on red mana symbols)
2. The amount of mana you expect to have available for casting goblins each turn.
In my experience, the +1/+1 and haste from a Chieftain has been much more relevant than -1 colorless and haste from a Warchief. Then again, I am playing a list with very little in terms of colorless mana requirements.
I am however planning on finding room for a Mogg War-marshal or two in my list...I've been losing to far to many Gofys lately. I'll post some results when I have them.
QFT. Very useful observations. I tried the 2/2 mix of Chieftain/Warchief, it make any or much improvement. I am considering dropping some of the "cuter" goblins for some of the more basic ones like MVM. I am hanging on very tightly to Sharpshooter because it can throw the whole combat phrase upside down and is a killer with some decks on his own too. Tokens? Hahaha I think maybe he really has to make way so the deck on the whole flow more smoothly.
Furthermore, I think many a times I didn't adapt my play well enough to the new decklist. Thanks everyone for sharing your insights, it helps me out alot.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Avatara
What do you guys think about the 4 Engineered Plagues in the board of Timothy Tyler Thomason's list who placed top 8 at the last SCG?
There's no question that E. Plague is good against elves, so let's consider the assumption that it is also good against Maverick.
The two cards that will be immediately answered by resolving a plague set to "human" are Noble Hierarch and Mother of Runes. Of the two, Mother of Ruins is the only card that is still relevant on turn 3, which is the earliest a typical R/B list could resolve a Plague. There is also a small benefit in terms of shrinking Knights of the Reliquary, but they are usually large enough for this benefit to be irrelevant. Further, Maverick lists tend to run some number of Quasali Pridemage, which they can easily find with Green Sun's Zenith once you spill the proverbial beans on your "tech".
So, it seems that Plague is only marginally useful against Maverick.
What other potential matchups could it be useful in? Certainly not the mirror, as you would also kill your own team. Dredge tends to make a large number of zombies, but even the "slower" LED-less lists regularly "combo" by turn 3, so Plague seems slow. Further, one Plague doesn't outright kill the Zombies...and there would be little time to stick a second. We don't need much help against Fish, U/W Blade is unaffected...you get the idea.
It seems that Engineered Plague as sideboard tech is not all that wise of a choice. Maverick and Elves are equally hampered by a well timed Perish, which is cast the same turn as a Plague and also has an added benefit of killing Goyf and Knight of the Reliquary, two creatures goblins traditionally has problems with that are unaffected by Plague.
For mono-red lists, I find that Pyrokinesis is useful out of the board against elves and maverick. Further, it gives us more options as to what we want to kill.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Avatara
What do you guys think about the 4 Engineered Plagues in the board of Timothy Tyler Thomason's list who placed top 8 at the last SCG? Here's what he said about it:
Eh. It's slow. Pyrokinesis and Sharpshooter are better against the field (and elves). You weaken your manabase by splashing B for it. It's too slow/underpowered to stop dredge. The only tribal decks being played right now are Elves and Goblins. Did I mention it sucks in the mirror? Unless you're trying to deck them...
But it does kill Mom, Snapcater, lavamancer, Delver, Noble Heirarch, and a couple other randoms. It would be awesome if all these cards were in a single "Human" deck and you could really use Plague to cripple it. Unfortunately all these creatures are supported by Goyfs, SFMs, KoTRs, etc. . So, in any game NOT against Elves, it essentially becomes a 1-1 that isn't very flexible, is slow, and makes your deck less explosive. I can't think of any games I've played recently where a resolved E Plague would have won for me.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
E. Plague has been discussed here before. It was brought up by someone, and GobboLord made some lists with Ancient Tombs to try to maximize it.
It was set as a good card, but that did not warrant sb space. Knesis and Shooter do a better job.
But if you use it, please, against Dredge, 1st name Illusion (narcomoeba), then Horror (Ichorid). Zombie is the last thing...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Played a small local tournament last night using the following list:
4x Wasteland
18x Mountain
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Warren Instigator
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Ringleader
2x Siege-gang Commander
3x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Stingscourger
2x TukTuk Scrapper
1x KikiJiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Aether Vial
4x Tarfire
Sideboard:
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Goblin Tinkerer
4x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Blood Moon
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Mogg War Marshal
It was a night of horrible misplays on my part...but here's a short report anyway.
Round 1 vs. Hive Mind:
Game 1: I win the die roll and lay on some early beats, getting him to around 8 before he is able to go off. I held a Stingscourger in hand to play off Show and Tell, but he has Hive Mind instead of Emrakul, so we're off to game 2.
Sideboarding: - 4x Tarfire, +4x Thorn of Amethyst
Game 2: I mulligan to six, keeping Lackey, Ringleader, Thorn and a couple lands. I draw WInstigator turn 1, mountain turn 2, and a second Thorn turn 3. I'm able to keep him off of the combo with a well-timed Wasteland and a resolved Thorn (the 2nd gets countered)...right up until my first punt of the night. My opponent finally draws into a City of Traitors when he is at about 6 life, and I pass the turn with a Wasteland up. he has just enough to Show and Tell + Pact through the Thorn, and it's over. A pretty disappointing loss, but sometimes we make mistakes.
Round 2 vs. Some Random Deck:
It's obvious that my opponent is pretty new to Magic in general, and I feel bad for running him over. Props to him for playing well in the face of a tuned deck.
Round 3 vs. Team America:
Game 1: I keep a pretty aggressive hand with 2x Winstigator, Vial, Mountain, Wasteland, Matron and some other goblin I can't remember. My opponent hits me with a Turn 2 Thoughtseize, taking one of the Winstigators. The first connects, but my opponent uses a Stifle on one of the triggers, netting me only the Matron for my trouble. I fetch out a Chieftain, and after a couple more goblin draws we're off to game 2.
Sideboarding: - 2x TukTuk Scrapper, - 2x Warren Instigator, + 3x Blood Moon, +1x Mogg War Marshal
Game 2: I mulligan to 6, keeping a mediocre hand with Blood Moon, Lackey, Mountain, Ringleader, Warren Instigator and a Matron. Lacky meets a Daze, and my opponent follows up with a Dark Confidant. I draw a mountain, cast Insitgator into a Force of Will, and pass the turn. Confidant does his thing, and my opponent passes the turn. I cast Matron, grab a Tarfire, and pass. My Tarfire meets another Force, and my opponent eats his graveyard for a Tombstalker. Ringleader doesn't find me anything useful and I'm dead a couple of combat steps later.
Game 3: I again mulligan to 6, and again find myself with a mediocre hand I can't really justify throwing back. My opponent has turn 1 Delver, turn 2 Thoughtsieze and a Snuff Out for my Chieftain. Tombstalker and Goyf make an appearance the following turn, and I have no way of catching up. I don't see a single Tarfire or Stingscourger, and he correctly counters my Matron.
Round 4 vs. U/W Stoneblade:
Game 1: I keep a hand with 2x Lackey, 1x Vial, 2x Mountain and 1x TukTuk Scrapper. My Vial resolves. Turn 2 I draw a third Lackey and cast the first two. He has Swords for one of them, lays a Factory and passes. I vial in the third Lackey EoT, drawing a Chieftain. I get him to about 8 life before he is able to stabilize with a Snapcaster Mage and another Swords. Vial ticks up to 5, and 2 turns later I draw KikiJiki. He has no answer, and I win a couple of turns later.
As an aside - Kiki-Jiki was pretty crazy here. When I cast him I had a Scrapper on Board, so I was able to eat his Factory when he activated it to block. I also could have copied a Ringleader at will or a Siege-gang Commander the following turn.
Sideboarding: - 2x Warren Instigator, - 2x Stingscourger, + 3x Blood Moon, +1x Tinkerer
Game 2: My turn 1 vial meets a Force of Will, and my opponent runs me over with countermagic and a Batterskull. I wasn't able to find a Tarfire in time, and he had the counter for my last-ditch Scrapper.
Sideboarding: No change.
Game 3: If you can imagine an aggressive draw out of U/W, my opponent had it. He leads off with double Stoneforge, fetching 2 Batterskulls. Turn 4 he sticks a Vendlion Clique, and I'm fearing for the Scrapper in my hand. Instead, he targets himself, bottoms his only card and rips a Brainstorm from the top. Brainstorm nets him a Jitte, and I'm seeing the writing on the wall. My Scrapper resolves, and I make my 2nd mistake of the night. He hits with the Clique + Jitte, then uses the counters to kill my Scrapper. I should have cycled the Gempalm in my hand in response to kill the clique, but I don't. In the end it didn't matter, he still had 2x Mystic, Jitte and 30 life to my empty board, but it was still a mistake.
In hindsight, I probably should have kept Stingscourger in for this match-up and cut the other two Instigators. I needed to maximize my outs for Germ tokens since the deck really has no clock otherwise.
In all, the deck performed well while I did not. On the other hand, my sideboard seems like it needs some work...particularly for the Team America and U/W matches. Blood Moon is great against them...but I have yet to actually resolve one. Further, it's absolutely terrible to be staring down a Tombstalker or Batterskull with a Blood Moon in hand. In many situations it's just plain dead.
I have mixed feelings about Kiki-Jiki. There are a ton of interactions with him, but sometimes it's the absolute last thing I want to draw. I'll continue to test it though - he did outright win me the one game where I was able to resolve it.
I also have mixed feelings about Gempalm. Sometimes it's exactly what I want. In others, it just sits in my hand because I don't have enough goblins in play to make it useful. It's a nice trick, but 3 might be too many. The trouble is, I'm not sure what I would run in its place as removal seems pretty necessary right now.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Concerning Hive mind...I wouldn't sweat it too much. Even when I was running R/B with 4 pyros and 4 cabals I got destroyed if the pilot was decent. You tend to not have a chance at all game 1. Game 2/3 are also pretty terrible, as you have to keep mana open to blast (or bluff a blast). They'll cantrip until they have 2-3 counters and then go off. Stingscourger is good in theory, but typically they will have enough time to sculpt a hand to win via pacts.
I'm not sure I would board in the blood moons against UW. They tend to run a decent amount of basics, and are likely to already be playing around wastelands. It keeps them off wrath and elspeth (which can be nice...especially wrath), but that is still likely to be 2-3 cards in their deck. It also stops factory (and riptide if they run it), but is unlikely to keep them off jace/CS/clique unless you hit the blood moon early. Also, many lists are running vanilla counterspell, which means they will be hitting two islands early on.
Instigators are also a rough call. Most UW lists run 3-4 spell snare. Winstigator and MWM (which you just ran one in the side) are the only two drops. If the UW sides out the snares (which I would suspect) then I think the Winstigators are needed. If the spell snares stay in, then boarding out your 4 2 drops means he will have 3-4 dead cards.
I wouldn't be too discouraged because of batterskull, you can still win games through it. I was lossing a game 2-43 life against UW blade. My friend asked how I was doing, and I responded "I'm doing well, down by over 40 life". But in the end, I had a great hand and board position, and stoneblade lacks reach, so I won the match. It's surprising, but I find myself (especially game 1) going down to a low amount of life against UW, eventually stabilizing, and winning after I have an insane board position. A top-decked elspeth can ruin your day, and you have to be careful about keeping mana and removal open for cliques, but normally the strategy works.
Oh, and if it makes you feel better, a t3 geist + t4 elspeth swings for 9 damage on t4.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chuck2657
Concerning Hive mind...I wouldn't sweat it too much. Even when I was running R/B with 4 pyros and 4 cabals I got destroyed if the pilot was decent. You tend to not have a chance at all game 1. Game 2/3 are also pretty terrible, as you have to keep mana open to blast (or bluff a blast). They'll cantrip until they have 2-3 counters and then go off. Stingscourger is good in theory, but typically they will have enough time to sculpt a hand to win via pacts.
The pilot is a good friend of mine so I've played the match a bunch. Not using Wasteland on the City absolutely cost me game 2, it was a pretty colossal punt. No telling how game 3 would have gone, but it's still helpful to acknowledge mistakes and learn from them.
In general I find the match-up to be abysmal like most other combo matches...but Thorn is a pretty good thing to resolve against them. I even debated holding it until he cast Show and Tell to play around counter magic, but when I drew a second copy I decided to go for it. It's pretty satisfying to watch them pay 2 for a Brainstorm before shipping the turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chuck2657
I'm not sure I would board in the blood moons against UW. They tend to run a decent amount of basics, and are likely to already be playing around wastelands. It keeps them off wrath and elspeth (which can be nice...especially wrath), but that is still likely to be 2-3 cards in their deck. It also stops factory (and riptide if they run it), but is unlikely to keep them off jace/CS/clique unless you hit the blood moon early. Also, many lists are running vanilla counterspell, which means they will be hitting two islands early on.
Our local pilot actually runs Mana Leak as I discovered last night. For the most part they are equally effective against us, but I suspect he will regret them at some point in his legacy career. In all, I agree that siding Blood Moon in here is probably a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chuck2657
Instigators are also a rough call. Most UW lists run 3-4 spell snare. Winstigator and MWM (which you just ran one in the side) are the only two drops. If the UW sides out the snares (which I would suspect) then I think the Winstigators are needed. If the spell snares stay in, then boarding out your 4 2 drops means he will have 3-4 dead cards.
This sums up my thinking pretty well. This particular player seems to keep the Snares in vs. goblins, so the 2 drops are the first things I look to cut. The trouble is that a resolved Instigator puts them on a pretty serious clock since often they really have none of their own. In hindsight, I should have left the Stingscourgers in and taken the other two Instigators out.
I've seen some others running Pithing Needle in place of Blood Moon and it's something I want to try out once I can get my hands on some more copies. Needle seems much more useful in this match-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chuck2657
I wouldn't be too discouraged because of batterskull, you can still win games through it.
I actually like it when they go for Batterskull since it leaves me with the greatest number of potential answers. Plus, if I can get rid of the Mystic somehow the thing tends to get stuck in their hand forever.
U/W is just one of those decks that rolls over to some well-timed hate...but it also punishes your sub-optimal draws or play errors pretty heavily. It's frustrating to watch your opponent blunder their way into the win on the back of a pile of counter magic and 15 turns worth of draw-go before they find some sort of threat.
