[Deck] Jund

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Originally Posted by jaruri

Been thinking about playing a little jund. Can anyone give some feedback on the list I'm thinking of right now? Thanks!

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Flayer / Tarmogoyf (Has Flayer shown any potential as a replacement so far? I'm cheap so I don't want to buy Goyfs :) )
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Scavenging Ooze (Or a 4th Flayer/Goyf)

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate

3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sinkhole
3 Thoughtseize

3 Badlands (or 2 and a Taiga?)
2 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland

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I sold my Goyfs and haven't really missed them. Kinda sucks in Goyf mirror matches, but I am playing 2 Scooze, 1 Grim flayer and a Grim Lavamancer instead right now, as well as a full 4 bolts. I also think 2 Badlands and a Taiga would be fine rather than 3 badlands. I don't play a basic mountain, you might be better off with 2 swamps instead, since you have 3 Hymn, 3 Lili and 3 sinkhole that need BB. I don't have any K Command yet but will definitely be adding some soon when I get them.

I've managed to get my first 4-0 in a long time at a local tournament with this deck.
I've played a pretty standard Punishing Fire list, with 3 BBE, 2 Bolts, 2 KCommands (love this card), 1 Pulse, 3 Lilis.
I've gotten tired of losing to Burn, so I've put 4 Leylines of Sanctity in my sideboard, and obviously never sided them in.
I've won against Shardless (2-1), BG Pox (2-0), Eldrazi splashing white (2-0) and Death and Taxes (2-0).

The Leylines will probably go, but is there anything I could do to improve the burn/combo matchup? Eidolon of the Great Revel as a hatebear? Maybe splash white for some real hatebears? Play Soul Spike or Spinning Darkness? Or Refreshing Rain? :)

EotGR is fine, but it's tough mana restrictions to meet and requires you to alter your playstyle a tiny bit since you sap your own health with TS and DC. Given that, you'll often be behind your opponent on HP while you have no good ways to gain life back. Further, you have the issue of GotBW giving them life too. This is all a recipe for disaster unless you radically change how the deck plays (in which, it probably won't be in this thread.)

IMO, if you go to do this, you go for Tasigur/BigFish, Goyf, EotGR, drop PFire, and find other ways to increase your clock and reduce your control aspect.

TL;DR - Combo will always be meh as EotGR doesn't fit this archtype in a recognisable form. You could potentially get away with a 1-off Teeg and some GSZs, but the likely first cuts are things like Hymn and Lily, which is your other combo hate.

If you want a cheesy sideboard card against Storm and Burn, you should try Feed the Clan (works better with a Goyf in the field). I've tested that in my Junk list (well, Siege Rhinos help with that too).

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

If you want a cheesy sideboard card against Storm and Burn, you should try Feed the Clan (works better with a Goyf in the field). I've tested that in my Junk list (well, Siege Rhinos help with that too).

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I think I goofed, I thought he was asking cramming a bunch into the main. In the side I think the EotGR work reasonably IME.

On your note, why did you use feed the clan over Children of Korlis? Catch them off guard?

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I think I goofed, I thought he was asking cramming a bunch into the main. In the side I think the EotGR work reasonably IME.

On your note, why did you use feed the clan over Children of Korlis? Catch them off guard?

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Yeah, Children of Korlis can just eat a Bolt and you're behind again. Still, Junk has a better matchup against Burn (Siege Rhino and Stoneforge Mystic). Jund is different, Price of Progress just murders this deck.

My list, for reference:

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Creatures [14]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Bloodbraid Elf

Spells [23]
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
2 Painful Truths
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard [15]
2 Slaughter Games
2 Terminate
2 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Plague
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Yeah, Children of Korlis can just eat a Bolt and you're behind again. Still, Junk has a better matchup against Burn (Siege Rhino and Stoneforge Mystic). Jund is different, Price of Progress just murders this deck.

My list, for reference:

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Creatures [14]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Bloodbraid Elf

Spells [23]
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
2 Painful Truths
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard [15]
2 Slaughter Games
2 Terminate
2 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Plague
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam

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How do you like 23 lands, only 8 fetches and 2 basics?

I run 24 lands, 9 fetches and 3 basics...idk how i like it. I often feel like i have to much land. I would like to drop a basic for badlands #3 but just yesterday i played against price and was like "maybe i keep the basics?"

What's the advantage of playing this deck over Shardless BUG? This deck seems pretty solid vs. Miracles but is of course not super powerful vs. the the combo decks. Also, is Chains good enough to bring in against storm combo decks like ANT? What's the game plan vs. Eldrazi?

Punishing Fire.

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Originally Posted by dredge90

What's the advantage of playing this deck over Shardless BUG? This deck seems pretty solid vs. Miracles but is of course not super powerful vs. the the combo decks. Also, is Chains good enough to bring in against storm combo decks like ANT? What's the game plan vs. Eldrazi?

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Punishing fire....i use to play shardless, i loved it. Still miss it to this day, but 4 decays just isnt enough for the dnt and infect meta i have...also, shardless isnt that great againt combo either 4 fow doesnt really do anything other than slow them down

Is Chains good enough vs. ANT?

What's the plan vs. eldrazi? Is anyone playing Go for the Throat and/or dismember?

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Originally Posted by dredge90

Is Chains good enough vs. ANT?

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I've found there's enough in the MD that you want to take out in that match up that it comes in, even if it doesn't turn off ad naus.
Making it more difficult for them to find their pieces by weakening their cantrips is still worth the slot.

Also it's really fun explaining the card every round.

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Originally Posted by dredge90

What's the plan vs. eldrazi? Is anyone playing Go for the Throat and/or dismember?

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I haven't had much trouble with eldrazi, I think it just takes a bit of discipline.
Cards like chalice don't hurt our deck a huge amount, and if you hold off on removing it until you really believe it'll forward your game plan you'll find your matches improving.
Goyf is very often a 5/6, if not a 6/7 in this match up, and LOTV is very good.
Kommand has also proved to have a lot of utility in this match up, even if only recurring a blocker for an extra turn until you can stabilize.

Just my two cents, I'm more than happy to hear other experiences against the deck.

Have been away from the deck since quite some time, what's the deck main core nowadays?
my deck used to be:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

4 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

2 Mirri's Guile
4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
3 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows



SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Null Rod
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental


but I feel like adjustment should be made, like, punishing fire may be still a solid choice but, 3 copies or 4? was a strong advocate of the 4 of, but now with all the eldrazi, I think some bolts/dismember/edict may be needed.
Thoughts on who has experience against the deck?
Also, Sanctum prelate made necessary to have some other CC spread into the removal selection, otherwise a call on CC=2 means trouble... guess I've to snatch back bolts and cut mirri's guile for library... :7

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Originally Posted by NegatorITA

Have been away from the deck since quite some time, what's the deck main core nowadays?
my deck used to be:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

4 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

2 Mirri's Guile
4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
3 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows



SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Null Rod
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental


but I feel like adjustment should be made, like, punishing fire may be still a solid choice but, 3 copies or 4? was a strong advocate of the 4 of, but now with all the eldrazi, I think some bolts/dismember/edict may be needed.
Thoughts on who has experience against the deck?
Also, Sanctum prelate made necessary to have some other CC spread into the removal selection, otherwise a call on CC=2 means trouble... guess I've to snatch back bolts and cut mirri's guile for library... :7

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Good point on Prelate. I've been away for Jund a while, and I am considering to 2 bolt, 3 p.fire, 3 decay, 1 pulse.
I dont like 4 grove, 4 waste, 1 forest and 7 spells that cost BB. I would go 3 grove, since you are not all-in on p.fire anyway and 4 waste. Add a 9th fetch fx.

I've put 2 diabolic edict in the board. But with Eldrazi maybe we could look to Terminate, Slaughter pact and dismember. Like in modern. Have had success with 1-2 terminate once.

EDIT: and i would never leave without a sylvan.
I also will try out the new Chandra - looks like she can be our Jace TMS

It's so hard to lose against noncombo matchups if you stick a library turn 2. I've been playing one, but two may be correct and can always be pitched to liliana discard growing goyf.

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Originally Posted by dredge90

It's so hard to lose against noncombo matchups if you stick a library turn 2. I've been playing one, but two may be correct and can always be pitched to liliana discard growing goyf.

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I've been playing 2 for years and it has been the correct call.

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I've been playing 2 for years and it has been the correct call.

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I'm glad I'm on the right track there. I've seen list with D. Demon and only 1 BBE. I've also seen some list with up to 2 K Command and some list with 0. What's everyone's experiences with these cards? I think when most people think Jund they think BBE but BBE might just be more flashy than good but I'm not sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dredge90

I'm glad I'm on the right track there. I've seen list with D. Demon and only 1 BBE. I've also seen some list with up to 2 K Command and some list with 0. What's everyone's experiences with these cards? I think when most people think Jund they think BBE but BBE might just be more flashy than good but I'm not sure.

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BBE is solid and great, and it's what we are used to. I think Kommand is quite good as a 1-2 of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dredge90

I'm glad I'm on the right track there. I've seen list with D. Demon and only 1 BBE. I've also seen some list with up to 2 K Command and some list with 0. What's everyone's experiences with these cards? I think when most people think Jund they think BBE but BBE might just be more flashy than good but I'm not sure.

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Kommand just adds a degree of flexibility that the deck historically hasn't had access to. Modal discard, recursion, artifact hate and removal on one card really takes some pressure off your draws - and the card only get's better with the standard 3 BBE.

I can't say I've run D. Demon before, though surely there are more resilient four drops the deck can offer if we're looking to shave some BBE's (Garruk relentless for example).

I shaved BBE and Confidant for Painful Truths and Avalanche Riders and I really liked the build. Obviously Riders was the stone nuts against Eldrazi, but might shave it down to 2. Ill post where Im at tomorrow, but it is definitely a control build.