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To all the Loam Poxers on here, have any of you guys tried a reanimation package for the sideboard? The deck already runs Entomb, so I think it could be pretty easy to add in Iona and Elesh from the side with 2-3 Exhume. Most Loam lists I've seen run Sylvan Library so digging for one of the pieces is possible. Each of those creatures help with the decks weaknesses, swarm and combo/burn, but maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?
perhaps they think the Dark Depths Thespian stage combo is good enough? After all it seem literally made for that deck!
I'm not quite sure taking out the thespian's stage combo is worth it to replace with a reanimator package (altough mostly sideboard) the biggest problem is that even with sylvan library it will lack consistency in our colors which you get with tutors and having things you can tutor for in B/G pox.
The upside is that you will be able to have great interaction still because you will have so much discard to force through your fatty and keeping it alive.
Also the biggest weakness is imo omnitell which you mostly solve by having the fatty in hand which will be harder if you have a 1 of Ionna
On another note, for all aggro pox players, have anyone brewed with hangarback walker (I played some standard these last months and think this card will have an impact soon either on mud or pox) it "dies" quite horribly to swords to plowshares but then they are not exiling a mishra's factory or another vital creature so it should work out quite nicely.
If you have any ideas regarding it pls let me know since i like having a creature you actually will be glad to sacrifice to contamination, smallpox, big pox or just chump a goyf for 4-5-6-or more turns.
it is an alternative for control pox, but not aggro decks. The clock is to weak.
I don't see walker being better than worm harvest for loam pox.
What I found a big problem is to choose between creature kill build or Chalice build.
CREATURES (11)
4 Bloodghast
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
3 Nihilith
SORCERIES (17)
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Wrench Mind
3 Toxic Deluge
INSTANTS (4)
4 Disfigure
PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 The Rack
LANDS (22)
4 Bloodstained Mire
16 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
CREATURES (11)
3 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
SORCERIES (14)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
2 Toxic Deluge
INSTANTS (2)
2 Dismember
PLANESWALKERS (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (10)
4 Chrome Mox
2 Paupers’ Cage
4 Chalice of the Void
LANDS (19)
15 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
I have actually been cutting down on Entombs. I am down to 1. I tend to trim graveyard cards for game 2 and would not want to sideboard into a package that is more graveyard reliant. I also don't run Sylvan Library, I run 2 Sensei's Top instead, life is too important to us to draw extra cards with Library and there are so many shuffle effects that Top can find me cards faster. Top can also be used to protect Life from the Loam from a Surgical Extraction and Top also interacts better with Pernicious Deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiptoon
Crop Rotation for Glacial Chasm or just a turn 4 Marit Lage usually will beat burn(I found that adding Crop Rotaion to the deck made that matchup much more winnable), combo should be a fine matchup because we have so much discard(Sneak and Show and Omni being the exceptions because they can Dig Through time to get out of it, I can usually force them to a point where they Dig for Show and Tell and Omniscience with no other cards in hand and then I get to Maelstrom Pulse the Omniscience while they are waiting to draw their dig spells), and swarm is answered by Tabernacle or Pernicious Deed. If Omni is a match-up you see a lot you could bring in some number of Iona to put in with their Show and Tell like what Lands does with Trinisphere, Nether Void is also and option that is almost always better than Trinisphere in that match-up (Exception is when they have their 1 of Emrakul)
As far as Hangerback Walker goes I don't think we can run any creature that does not come back from the graveyard on it's own. Though that hasn't stopped me from brainstorming lists with Braids, Cabal Minion. I tried Deathrite Shaman when it came out and very quickly realized that non-recursive creatures in a Smallpox deck just don't work.
For more punch, the 'creatures till end of turn' cards tend to out do the recurring threats for damage performance. A combination of Haunted Plate Mail and Chimeric Idol can be devastating in a deck without Mishra's Factories. They can all block or uppercut harder than Nether Spirit, Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, or Ashen Ghoul.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
The more pox spells one plays, the bigger the creatures become.
I agree with this statement more for Mono-Black where less cards go to the graveyard than in B/G because of dredging. Also because of Pernicious Deed. G/B also has Marit Lage, How about that for a "uppercut"!?Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Do you have a list? I thought about including glacial chasm but it just seems so mediocre most of the time not producent mana. My burn match-up is pretty much even without commiting any Cards to the matchup. But maybe It has some other uses?
I have a list I try to update reguraly at http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/20-02-15-pox-loam/
This is what I play in a close to neutral playing field (we have weekly tournaments with up to 40-50 players)
Even been thinking of going up in colored mana but not sure what to cut exactly. Also I would like to fit 2 chains among my 75 but I simply don't own the card
I'm messing around with loam pox again, I traded into a dark depths and thespians stage. I am including hexmage for very specific reasons: its fantastic against planeswalkers (jace), it gives me threats (a playset of factory is almost impossible to support once silver bullet lands and depths are in there), and lastly that it actually allows for a quicker combo (turn two with a nut draw, turn three with crop rotation and a green source.)
Here's my list for testing:
4x vampire hexmage
3x thoughtseize
3x inquisition of kozilek
1x raven's crime
4x smallpox
4x crop rotation
3x abrupt decay
1x maelstrom pulse
2x sylvan library
4x innocent blood
3x life from the loam
3x liliana of the veil
4x wasteland
4x verdant catacombs
1x bayou
1x overgrown tomb
1x woodland cemetery
3x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1x dark depths
1x thespian's stage
1x bojuka bog
1x cabal pit
2x swamp
1x forest
3x barren moor
Sideboard
1x glacial chasm
2x golgari charm
3x pernicious deed
2x shriekmaw
2x pithing needle
2x surgical extraction
2x choke
This seems strong. In order to optimize I may need additional copies of depths/stage, and obviously more bayous. The sideboard is just a stab, but I'm committed to some number of deed, charm, and choke. Rotation allows for sideboarded chasm against burn amd shriekmae is there for show and tell. Not having Krosan Grip for miracles may be incorrect, but I feel that deed does aaot of work against them. Overall, this feels strong. Library and barren moor allow for some great card advantage. Someone mentioned above that library doesn't exactly like to play along with deed and I agree with that. Its come up a few times. I would still keep library in while boarding in deed, but for those matchups both cards are excellent. Comments and advice warmly welcomed.
EDIT: I'm a land or spell short, and I am leaning towards a land. Maybe the 4th urborg?
This is the list I have been playing,(from memory so hopefully I got everything right) I think I swapped -1 Entomb +1 Misty Rainforest for a week or two for the added green source but I have since gone back to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxboy
I played Chains of Mephistopheles main for SCG Worchester a few months ago because it was supposed to be a heavy blue field, I played 1 blue deck in 7 rounds :(, I also played Nether Void to use against Omni-Show
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Raven’s Crime
Creatures
1 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
Lands
4 Bayou
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra’s Factory
2 Thespian Stage
2 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Disfigure
2 Extirpate
2 Golgari Charm
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Duress
I don't want my uppercut to be all my eggs in one basket. Immunity to GY hate and traditional removal can be a boon. I myself don't run the "creature till end of turn" threats save Mishra's, but at least I don't need 'the combo' and my threats are immune to more removal. Some people think that hitting a Marit Lage with a Swords is funny, but people have died with 40 life before... :tongue: That and I love Mono-B consistency. We're also Wasteland resistant, what a bonus. Let's not forget color screw resistant. One of my favs, though irrelevant to many, is the Mono-B approach is just cheaper on the wallet as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
i run mono black and i can see b/g pox' vulnerability against blood moon and wasteland because of a shakier mana base but i think it makes up for that by offering more efficient answers in abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse and pernicious deed..
i admire the simplicity of mono black, though if i had the cards, i'd most likely give b/g pox a try..
i wouldn't say one is better than the other but both certainly have their merits and demerits, i would say it depends on the player's preference or the meta where he hangs..
i wonder what kinds of decks would either of the two be more effective in? example: in a field full o' burn, i think i'd pick up mono black since we have spinning darkness and nether void is a better fit in our deck, i think nether void would be awkward in a deck running life from the loam?(i could be wrong though, loampox pilots, please share me your thoughts if i am mistaken on this one..)
a BUG infested meta, i think is rough for mono black, based on my experience..i think loampox would perform better in that kind of field..
against which decks would mono black or b/g pox perform better against?
One of the fundamental weaknesses of pox is the top deck win. It doesn't play much at instant speed and opponents can sometimes just brainstorm into three good turns. Traditional pox is also abysmally slow, round time limits are a concern. Depths/stage/crop rotation are so easily splashed and loam is strong as a nonblue form of card advantage. The package fits so well not only as a way to win fast if necessary but also resilient with loam getting lands back. Raw power level, in my humble opinion, is stronger along with adaptability.
Well if you have the correct lock I can't see any singel way for the normal decks to win, I can see multiple top decks with you drawing Stone cold but that's pretty hard IMO.
And for the Nether Void question, yes the loam motor is pretty bad with Nether Void in play so you can't really mainboard it, but the decks you want it against you don't really need it anyways and are more reliant on earlier disruption
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
i agree with the first sentence, however we have high-impact, proactive answers to attenuate this such as Night Of Souls betrayal, etc..and with Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, Grim Lavamancer, True-Name Nemesis, Ligering Souls, Mother Of Runes, etc. being legacy's defining creatures; we have basically "extirpated" a big percentage of their deck..furthermore, cursed scroll and liliana is good at handling top-decked creatures..
i suggest a pair of tombstalkers for mono black runners who's having problems closing out a game after establishing control to avoid the opponent from drawing himself back into the game..
Why do people fear BS? As a card game based on card advantage, isn't 4 Smallpox the equivalent of killing 12 Brainstorms? You have to Brainstorm 3 times to recover from a Smallpox. Dig Through Time, Dark confidant, and Life from the Loam. That's real CA. While they're wasting time drawing their 3 good turns in 3 turns, we're punching them for 6 damage minimum (assuming you don't run 1 power threats) We really should be focusing on lessening our 3 worst problems, using the sideboard usually:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Non-land non creature permanents, Graveyard decks, and Ancestral Visions (Dig through Time).
I suppose Pox could include instant speed stuff like Diabolic Edict, funeral Charm, etc. But are you more referring to Instant Speed stack interactions? Suddenly, I consider Null Brooch for some card advantage. We don't care about creatures if it's 1 at a time right? :laugh:
liliana+ the rack+ null brooch