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I don't understand how this deck works correctly with only 20 lands, no ponder or probe, and 4 shamans. There are so many 3 and 4 mana drops... Colors heavy... With all the delver decks and their wastelands, they apply early pressure and keep our land count low and have counters for the few spells that matter. I miss some birds of paradise or veteran explorer, don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by csanders
The deck works. I was playing it for awhile. It is important to fetch basics early on, but otherwise the deck plays very much like regular Recruiterless, with better grindability and win potential without sticking an Aluren. I think it's the best version not playing recruiters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneymakermich
Maybe it's personal style or local metagame but it wouldn't work for me. If I fetch island on turn 1 to suspend vision, then I can't play turn 2 hymn or decay. I feel this version suffers too much from wastelands
I am happy to see the BUG version gaining a little bit of momentum in Japan. This can only be good for continued innovation of the deck. :) I actually wanted to test Ancestral Vision for a long while, but the price tag on it is silly, but after seeing that list I couldn't wait any longer. After having tested the card, I think it is a great additional tool for this deck. The card advantage of a single resolved AV is too much for many decks to handle. The tradeoff is its slowness, and very low topdeck value. I have lost some games after topdecking AV in a tight spot, games that might have been won if it was Ponder instead. Going forward, I feel like I want to test a mix of AV and Ponder. 3/2 split, probably. The tutoring and hand fixing ability of Ponder is still needed IMO. I have never played with AV before, and one thing I was very surprised to learn is that in some cases, AV is better than Ponder in the starting hand. Obviously Ponder is better if you intend to keep a 1 land hand, or need to dig for something right away. But if your hand is already decent enough, and you have turns 2 and maybe 3 already laid out, casting Ponder on turn 1 is kind of a waste, in part because you don't know what you are looking for this early in the game. Suspending AV on the other hand is maximum use of your resources on turn 1. Hymn I have not tested,Quote:
Originally Posted by csanders
I've been playing Aluren for a few months now, and I struggle against a few matchups. I'd like to get some advices from you guys on some of those :)
Here's my list :
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/749480
The first matchup I'd like to talk about is topless miracles.
In the first game I try to bait the Terminus while holding some shardless agent/strix in my hand. I also try to get my Aluren FoW'd so I can cast Leovold. Problem is if I end up in a situation where both my board and hand are empty, I'm pretty dead. Is my strategy valid or should I try to force the combo ?
Here is how I sideboard :
+2 Carpet of flowers
+1 Pithing Needle
+3 Hymn to Tourach
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Surgical Extraction
-4 FoW
-1 Aluren
-1 Baleful Strix
-1 Cavern Harpy
-1 Abrupt Decay
Needle is there for Jace. I'm not sure about Flusterstorm, I like it when I can counter a ponder/brainstorm. I've been trying Surgical Extraction lately, because I found that if you can extract Mentor and Needle Jace, they are struggling to kill you. I've been stealing a couple games like this, but I'm not sure about that either. The strategy for the second game depends on wether I hit Carpet+Aluren in my starting hand. In this case I'll try to go All-in turn 2. Otherwise, I stick to my previous plan.
What do you think ? Would you do things differently ?
Thanks :)
Hey Sasha. In my opinion we shouldn't try to fast combo against miracles. Aluren is a must counter for them, so keep in all 4 and at least 3 FoW.
Don't bring in Carpet against miracles, it is serious card disadvantage. Unless we take out lands for Carpet, which I don't recommend.
Maybe you could try (assuming Monk heavy miracles build) -3 Decay, +1 Needle, +2 Dread of Night.
I find this matchup difficult. We need to establish early pressure, without overextending. If they start casually chaining Predicts without us having any pressure, we are in a world of trouble. Cavern Harpy can help with this early pressure, e.g.: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 Strix/Agent, Turn 3 Cavern Harpy is a great opening.
It's a resource war. Try to make every card a threat. Casting Aluren just to draw out a counter from their hand is fine. Even if you don't have the combo. They don't know that. Aluren is a nightmare for them. They have no Probes, and no Daze (well sometimes they do have Daze).
A single non-blue planeswalker in the SB like Nissa, Vraska, or Ob Nixilis improves this matchup.
Thanks for your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
I side FoW out because I don't like the card disadvantage it creates in this matchup, as it is a resource war as you said. For what purpose would you still recommand to keep 3 of them ? To protect the combo ? To counter Terminus / Jace / draw ?
I'll try without. But I think you are right, I would prefer to draw something relevant instead of carpet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
I like to keep Decay to destroy their Monk, don't you think it's better than dread of Night for that purpose ? Assuming of course you can kill it before it generates tokens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
I see we've experienced the same difficulties against this deck :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
Nice tech. You bring them in against other matchups ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
Thanks a lot for your help !
To represent a threat of Aluren with FoW protection at all times, and to counter their bombs, like Jace. Many games will go long, in which case FoW can be hardcast without card disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha
No if you run 2 Dread, I think it is better than Decay for this specific purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha
It is good in many fair and grindy matchups that don't have wasteland, such as Czech Pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha
Hey guys, I saw a few list running a couple of copies of Trophy Mage.. what's your thought about it? :)
It's bad; mkay?Quote:
Originally Posted by comix84
With the advices from Cartesian (thanks again) I was able to improve a little bit my matchup against Miracle. Here is my sideboarding plan now :
-1 FoW
-3 Abrupt decay
-1 Aluren
-1 Glint Nest Crane / Baleful Strix / Harpy / Parisitic Strix (not sure about which one to remove yet)
+2 Dread of Night (if they are playing mentor)
+3 Hymn to tourach
+1 Needle
The plan is to out grind them with our CA generating creatures. FoW gets better in the end game when you can hard cast it. Typical situation you want is casting shardless agent into hymn to tourach.
Now I would like to talk about another difficult matchup : Death and Taxes.
I don't have any particular strategy in the first game, just trying to destroy their equipments with abrupt decay. Wasteland really hurts.
Here is my sideboard plan :
-4 FoW
-2 Leovold
+1 Needle
+1 Jitte
+1 Teferi's response
+1 Abrupt decay
+2 Dread of night
I'm pretty sure FoW is useless in the matchup, and I feel like Leovold is not at its best. Second game gets a bit better if you draw dread of night. Otherwise it stays difficult.
What do you think about my sideboarding plan ? Is it any good ? Do you have any tips for the matchup pre / post sideboard ?
Thanks !
I would keep in 2 Leovold for sure, and take out -1 Aluren, -1 Harpy instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha
The reason for taking out 1 Aluren is that you only ever need 1 against D&T since it will never be countered or discarded - if you are somehow able to cast it, then you have it. So 3 is enough.
Hope it helps.
Just getting into aluren in many many years, I have a meta filled with maverick/ D&t and also grixis/czech pile. Which version do you recommend for that meta, I see 2 distinct builds, recruiter of the guard list and value shardless list.
I agree that Leovold is great against D&T and should remain in IMO (think about the cards that target: wasteland, rish port, jitte, sword or fire/ice etc...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
There's also Imperial Recruiter, but most people eschew even talking about it because Recruiter of the Guard is considerably cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by militiaman89
Hello folks,
i have been playing the Shardless-List for some leagues now (had 2 5-0īs and 2 4-1`s in 4 leagues) again and had a lot of success. I started with a copied list from mtggoldfish and changed some cards.
Here is my recent list with some explanations (also i want to say thank you to this Thread for providing a lot of good information for me to learn about the deck),
2 Bayou
2 Trop
3 Usea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
3 Cavern Harpy
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 True-Name Nemisis
1 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Collective Brutality
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Aluren
SB:
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormodīs Crypt
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Dread of Night
1 Liliana, the Last Hope (Grind card and kills small dudes)
1 Nissa, Vital Force (I hope this can kill Jace...)
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Carpet of Flouers
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Fatal Push
1) The manabase feels well balanced. Sometimes Basics can be awkward, but they are needed vs Blood Moon and Wastelands.
2) The Maindeck has some weird cards, but they all fill their role. True-Name and Ooze have both proven useful to me. Collective Brutality is my little MVP because it is so flexibel. Kills Deathrites, discards important spells (sadly no Leovolds or Jaces [Enemy NR 1]), drains life mid-combo. Hymn to Tourach has the BB-cost, but without it the deck loses a lot against Storm. I never needed Parasitic Strix.
3) The sideboard looks a bit random but the slots make sense. The idea is to always board multiple cards in every matchup. Only the traps are a 2-off and their purpose is to have a good fighting chance vs Storm.
4) After played something like 20 - 25 matches with the deck now again, i feel good with deck. With this configuration i feel even against Storm, favored against Delver (i board out the combo here completly) and Fair Decks (DnT, Maverick). The real issue i have is Miracles. Do you have an idea which change the matchup. The games usually go like Early game Cantripping and me playing some small Threats. Then Miracles sets up a Terminus and slam Jace. When this resolves Aluren is usually dead. Plus u need to keep some answers to Mentor. To sum up i feel like the pressure Aluren can provide is to slow and the combo needs multiple cards to be assembled.
Thanks for reading :)
Greets
Nice to see someone else giving differwnt variantions a try. Ive been playing around with a ton of ideas. My latest is more grindy with being able to make to combo more resilient and reliable to get
3x academy rector
4x aluren
4x shardless agent
4x.living wish
1x harpy
1x strix
1x artic merfolk
3x recruiter of the guard
4x deathrite
3x veteran explorer
4x cabal therapy
4x brainstorm
2x thoughtseize
22 land
Sb:
1x strix
1x harpy
1x artic merfolk
1x recuiter
1x rec sage
1x karakas
1x bog
1x academy rector
2x flustersturm
3x hymn to tourach
1x orzhov pontiff
1x thalia
Something close to this seems very grindy, shardless into wish gives u combo. Lots of synergy, poss can cut the 4th aluren due to the rectors.
How to people feel Aluren vs Staxs? There is at least one at my LGS and want to know how to how to tackle it.
Can be tough. Need to hold removal specifically for Golem and TSphere. Chalice can be a major stumbler when attempting to stabilize colors. In my Recruiter version I play a Rec Sage main so looping becomes possible to break out.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyWuppy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like the rectors and explorers a lot, but I think you play too many high casting cost cards. I've found living wish is too slow. Could you not swap a rector for a recruiter? Because when looking for aluren, recruiter can get rector. And with aluren in play, recruiter allows to combo. Could you send the detail of your manabase ?Quote:
Originally Posted by militiaman89